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Post by lmtengs on Aug 5, 2010 15:41:32 GMT -8
Allied has a photo gallery page on their website, re their various newbuilds. www.alliedship.com/index.php/gallery/- does anyone have an idea what "Mitco No.3" is? (middle column, 2nd row) Looks like the MV Christine Anderson, operated by Pierce County. Mitco even has the Pierce County logo on the side. Why was it up here in Canada though? Photo of MV Christine Anderson: i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx148/potb101/ChristineAnderson_8997.jpg (Jody's photo) Hm, my grandpa used to work on the Arctic Ivik (first column, 25th from the top) back when it was on loan to the Canadian Coast Guard awhile back...
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 1, 2010 21:47:13 GMT -8
I posted the following on the Queen of Esquimalt photos & discussion thread here. I thought that a copy of this also fits right in here. Thanks to my brother, MR. DOT, for preserving this and many hundreds of similar newspaper clippings from almost 50 years ago. A tribute to our first Queens, BC ship builders and the foresight of Premier WAC Bennett. The Queen of Esquimalt & Queen of Saanich - Victoria Harbour - 3 April 1963 [Bill Halkett photographer - Victoria Daily Times - from D.O. Thorne Collection]
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Post by mrdot on Nov 1, 2010 22:54:22 GMT -8
to the younger members of our wc forum, I thought this clipping might help them realize there was a time in my lifetime when we could build high class tonnage and in quantity rite here in B.C., it troubles me that is now just a memory as we are fast shedding any capability we did have and in fact are aiding our one time adversaries. mrdot.
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Post by lmtengs on Nov 7, 2010 21:18:26 GMT -8
A plaque at Esquimalt Graving dock:
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jun 3, 2011 9:20:58 GMT -8
www.marinelink.com/news/shipbuilders-shipbuilding338875.aspx Nanaimo Shipbuilders Want Share of Canadian ShipbuildingAccording to a report from The Daily News, Nanaimo is one step closer to sharing in Ottawa's $35b shipbuilding program, now that the province has enthusiastically endorsed the efforts by a number of B.C. shipyards to attain the contracts. www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=bec7a9aa-94f2-4bf3-baee-97fb0d600304 Nanaimo shipbuilders want a share of workNanaimo is one step closer to sharing in Ottawa's $35-billion shipbuilding program, now that the province has enthusiastically endorsed the efforts by a number of B.C. shipyards to attain the contracts. Ron Van Wachem, president of the Nanaimo Shipyard, sat through the legislature's discussion of the issue this week and was delighted that Premier Christy Clark talked about the importance of supporting the bid in her first speech as premier. He said he was also pleased that MLAs from both political parties were in favour of bringing the contracts to the West Coast. Ottawa intends to build 28 large vessels during the next 30 years, including warships and support vessels for Canadian Forces and the coast guard. The Nanaimo Shipyard is working with the Vancouver Shipyard to produce one of two successful proposals to contract some of the work by the proposal deadline of July 7. The work could bring as many as 100 high-paying jobs to the city for 20 to 30 years.
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Post by Neil on Jun 3, 2011 9:44:58 GMT -8
This thread seems to be on its fourth heading now. What's up with that? Anyway, I've been wondering if there would be any discussion of this federal contract, since it's so incredibly important to BC. Get it, and we're a major player in shipbuilding again.
Even David Hahn has weighed in on the side of WMG's bid (how's that for ironic?), and now there seems to be unanimity in our legislature on the need to lobby Ottawa for a favorable decision.
What we don't know is what exactly the Clark government proposes to do to aid WMG's bid. Quebec and Nova Scotia have already been lobbying Ottawa, and I believe some financial aid in a quasi-subsidy form has been promised. Clark is going to have to do more than cheerlead if she's going to play a role in this, and so far we have no idea what her intentions are.
The shipworkers' union is supporting the bid for the non-combat portion of the work, since the combat ships will lock out other commercial jobs, which would make Hahn's support somewhat pointless, as BC Ferries would not be able to take advantage of a newly competitive local shipbuilding option.
Davie of Quebec is currently insolvent, but could receive aid from the province to gain the contract, and Nova Scotia's Irving is the other major player for this multi-billion dollar contract.
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Post by mrdot on Jun 3, 2011 12:54:53 GMT -8
:)if we are relying of mr. Hahn to revive BC shipbuilding, then I am afraid that all the onetime BC yards, will look like the onetime Clydeside yards, which are now in the hands of land developers and other dubvious speculators. the onetime beehive of world class tonnage, is now an industral wasteland, as they have lost the ability to build anything but scarce royal navy contracts! :'(mrdot.
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Post by Neil on Jun 3, 2011 21:03:55 GMT -8
Seems to be more continued snivelling about Mr. Hahn. There isn't much looking at the other side of that equation, in that the BC shipyards provided a bid on a cost plus basis. There were alot of other factors besides Mr. Hahn in isolation that led to the C Ferries being built elsewhere. The shipyard industry now isn't what it was in the 1960's. It is very competitive. Consider that for the recent new tug addition to the Seaspan fleet, the new tugs were not built here. They were built elsewhere. It's not 'snivelling' to note David Hahn's role in farming out hundreds of shipyard jobs to Germany. He made a decision, supported by the provincial government, that reflects a mindset about shipbuilding that differs from our neighbors in Washington and Alaska. Whether you like it or not, Paul, it's still a valid question. Now you have Christy Clark making noises about supporting WMG's bid on the navy contract. But it needs to be asked: did the Liberals, and Hahn, hurt our chances by sending all those jobs overseas? Would a successfully fulfilled local contract on the Coastals have helped our chances now? If I'm the feds, I'm asking Christy, where was your government's faith in local shipbuilding when you were building the ferries? We don't know that the Coastal bid would in fact have been cost plus, because WMG was not allowed in on the final bid. We do know that the Island Sky was delivered on a fixed price basis. I don't understand Paul's comment about the shipbuilding industry being more competitive now than in the '60s. As mrdot points out, both Europe and North America have lost a lot of players that made the '60s and before a very active time for ship construction. The race to the bottom in costs, partly facilitated by yards in Asia, isn't necessarily something to be admired.
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Post by mrdot on Jun 3, 2011 22:49:50 GMT -8
:)the people growing up in today's generation have no idea of what used to be on the coast, and some of members of this present generation are reminding me that it's totally different now, and they are so right, Mr. Hahn is doing exactly what he has been mandated to do by his present political masters, and that being said the ruch shipbuilding heritage of the past is the history of the world that I grew up in, and is no longer supported by anyone of this present mindset. There was a rich past both here and Clydeside, but changing times will mean that the next generation will depend on the wall mart, and fast food industry mentality, I am afraid.mrdot.
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jun 6, 2011 10:50:01 GMT -8
www.marinelink.com/news/shipbuilding-competing338893.aspx B.C., N.S. Lobby for Competing Shipbuilding BidsAccording to a report from The Chronicle Herald, the week before last Nova Scotia unveiled a plan to lobby Ottawa on behalf of Irving Shipbuilding Inc.’s Halifax Shipyard, all in a bid to win a $35b contract to build 20 navy ships over 30 years. In an effort to compete with that bid, British Columbia Premier Christy Clark announced that she will go to Ottawa to promote the bid by Vancouver Shipyards Co. Ltd.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 6, 2011 11:08:21 GMT -8
This thread seems to be on its fourth heading now. What's up with that? That phenomena occurs when we merge a few threads into one, or move posts from one thread to another. - the originating thread name still appears for a particular moved post. You see that in the various ship photo threads too.
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Post by FNS on Jun 6, 2011 22:12:10 GMT -8
A plaque at Esquimalt Graving dock: It has just taken my breath away to learn that the big legendary ocean liner RMS QUEEN ELIZABETH (a Trans-Atlantic workmate of the RMS QUEEN MARY) came all the way to our part of the world to enter that graving dock in Esquimalt for her conversion work to military duty in WW2. She must have been quite a sight there. This is the same yard that has done repairs to our CPR Princess liners. I had thought that the QE would have been converted at an east coast yard or in Europe. Amazing what I can learn on this forum!
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jun 7, 2011 3:49:45 GMT -8
www.marinelink.com/news/shipbuilding-competing338893.aspx B.C., N.S. Lobby for Competing Shipbuilding BidsAccording to a report from The Chronicle Herald, the week before last Nova Scotia unveiled a plan to lobby Ottawa on behalf of Irving Shipbuilding Inc.’s Halifax Shipyard, all in a bid to win a $35b contract to build 20 navy ships over 30 years. In an effort to compete with that bid, British Columbia Premier Christy Clark announced that she will go to Ottawa to promote the bid by Vancouver Shipyards Co. Ltd. www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/06/06/pol-shipbuilding-procurement.html Shipbuilding contest moves in rough political waters Minister wants lobbyists out, as premiers head to Ottawa to make their caseSome of the hottest political action in Ottawa this summer will happen over massive contracts to outfit the Canadian navy and Coast Guard for years to come. At stake are thousands of jobs, but as provincial premiers rotate into Ottawa to make the case for their regions, industry lobbyists have been told to stay away. The Canadian military is buying more than 30 new ships for the navy and the coast guard, including frigates, supply ships, patrol boats and icebreakers. An estimated $35 billion worth of contracts are up for grabs as part of a strategy to cover Canada's needs for the next three decades. Two shipyards will be picked from among four competing for the work. The deadline for proposals is July 7, and the selection process could take another two months after that. The entire procurement process could take up to two years. One winner will be awarded the $25-billion combat vessel construction deal. Another bidder will be chosen to build the non-combat ships, which account for the remaining $8 billion of contracts initially. That order could grow to include more Coast Guard replacements. Over the short term, both deals would result in about the same investment for a winning shipyard. Losing shipyards may bid on an estimated $2 billion in construction work for smaller non-combat ships. The huge size of the contracts has regions salivating over the potential economic spinoffs, including jobs. Premiers make pitch Nova Scotia Premier Darrell Dexter travelled to Ottawa on May 30 to make the case for Halifax Shipyards, owned by the Saint John, N.B.-based Irving interests. He said the yard builds "the best ships in the world" and is the only contenders that is fully Canadian owned. “For Nova Scotia it would be like winning the Olympics every year for 30 years,” Dexter said. Federal New Democratic MPs from the Halifax area, as well as party leader Jack Layton, have expressed support for the Irving bid, although during the election Layton also called for "fair distribution of work" across Canada for the shipbuilding industry. British Columbia's Liberal government was accused of being late to the lobbying game for its entry, Vancouver-based Seaspan, which owns Victoria Shipyards, Vancouver Shipyards and the Vancouver Drydock. But last Thursday, Premier Christy Clark announced she's headed to Ottawa this month to make a "big splash" on behalf of the B.C. shipyard, in which a Montana businessman has a significant stake. A third competitor, Seaway Marine and Industrial Inc., is based in St. Catharines, Ont. The facility, closed in 2006 as the former Port Welland Dry Docks, may appear to be an unlikely candidate — ocean-going ships cannot sail through some narrow parts of the St. Lawrence Seaway — but the current repair yard recently completed a $2.7-million federal contract to repair the Coast Guard vessel Griffon. Local media have reported Conservative MP Rick Dykstra has been working hard on the bid from Seaway, whose investors come from several countries. And then there's the near-bankrupt MIL-Davie Yards Inc. in Lévis, Que. An Italian consortium is restructuring the now-idle facility. Only solvent companies can bid on government contracts and if Davie is not able to get its finances together by the July deadline, the Quebec bid will be shut out. On the other hand, a winning bid would attract new investment and potentially restore a historically significant shipyard. Quebec's Liberal government has offered support for a revitalized Davie Shipyards. A Newfoundland and Labrador-based bid, Kiewit Offshore Services, withdrew in April. Lobbyists told to stay away As the East and West Coast arm-twisting continues, strategic persuasion by registered lobbyists should have effectively stopped. At least if Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose has her way. Last week, Ambrose raised more than a few eyebrows at the CANSEC defence and security trade show in Ottawa when she used her keynote speech to tell defence industry insiders to butt out of the shipbuilding game. The large gathering of defence industry insiders, military officials, business leaders — and lobbyists — were told the government doesn’t want lobbyists to play a role in Canada’s new national shipbuilding procurement strategy. "It was our intention at the outset to ensure that the … competition would be run through a process that is completely arm’s length of politics," Ambrose said. The government has already consulted industry association representatives and chief executives of large companies on the future of Canada’s shipbuilding industry, she said. "Our government’s commitment to ensuring fairness and openness and transparency is clear. Whether shipyards are successful or not will depend 100 per cent on the merits of their proposals." Ambrose went into great detail on how the government plans to keep the sometimes messy business of military procurement on the straight and narrow. Public Works heads a national shipbuilding procurement strategy secretariat, which is "the workhorse of the governance structure looking after the day-to-day running of the process," she said. The committee includes deputy ministers from Defence, Fisheries and Oceans and Industry Canada. Nova Scotia's Dexter said Friday he was skeptical lobbyists would stay out of the game. "There's a lot of people who aren't going to count themselves out."
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Post by Neil on Jun 7, 2011 18:15:17 GMT -8
The global atmosphere in shipbuilding has changed whether Nick likes it or not. Nick is excellently qualified to speak for himself, but I believe you're replying to my post. Name is Neil, or, 'Niel' as you seem to prefer. A good example is Seaspan which brought in new larger tugs built offshore, and not here. Shipbuilding is a business, and it is competitive. Yes, you've mentioned the Seaspan project before, and no one was debating that shipbuilding is not a competitive business. mrdot and me were pointing out that it's always been competitive, perhaps more so forty years ago when there were more players. I would like to see a specific cite that WMG or a local partnership was not allowed into the bid process at the commencement of the announcement of the C-Ferries project, but we've been through those waters many times before. No one said they were excluded from the beginning of the bidding process. I said, and I've quoted him before, that WMG's Stephen Frasher claimed not to know why his company was excluded from the short list. It also wouldn't hurt to send an email to our nutty Senators who don't do very much in terms of usefulness other than collect dust in their Ottawa offices. Paul, if you've got time to spend writing to a Canadian senator, then you've got a helluva lot more time to waste than I do, and I don't claim to be all that busy.
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Post by mrdot on Jun 7, 2011 20:17:44 GMT -8
:)you know I,ve never been enamored by Kristy Crunch, but I am warming up to her, rite off the hop she saw fit to do something about our appauling minimum wage, and tonite she is trumpeting the west coast shipbuilding capability as a born again socred, so perhaps their is hope for some revival of our one time capibility! Most jurisdictions try to put their local industry on an advantage to world compition, but not the last crew we had on deck here in BC. :)mrdot.
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Post by Neil on Jun 12, 2011 10:55:56 GMT -8
:)you know I,ve never been enamored by Kristy Crunch, but I am warming up to her, rite off the hop she saw fit to do something about our appauling minimum wage, and tonite she is trumpeting the west coast shipbuilding capability as a born again socred, so perhaps their is hope for some revival of our one time capibility! Most jurisdictions try to put their local industry on an advantage to world compition, but not the last crew we had on deck here in BC. :)mrdot. Unfortunately, we're still not aware of Christy doing anything other than 'trumpeting' the WMG bid for the defense contract. I'm hoping that the decision to build all of BC Ferries' four major vessels in Germany will not weigh against winning part of the navy job. In an article in the Halifax Chronicle-Herald, Kevin Falcon is quoted as saying at the time, about WMG: "They did not have the capacity or the capability to deliver large vessels with the kind of certainty and cost savings that were realized by going offshore," said Kevin Falcon, who is now deputy premier in the government trying to pitch the yard.Thanks, Kev. That was then and this is now, eh?
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Post by mrdot on Jun 12, 2011 14:11:59 GMT -8
:)well my freinds, if we are relieng on mr Falcon, or for that matter ms. kristy, we are screwed, and our onetime BC shipbuilding capacity will be a distant memory, lets hope the nucks have a better outcome! :)mrdot.
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jun 15, 2011 4:33:14 GMT -8
www.marinelink.com/news/exdeputy-minister339036.aspx Canada’s Ex-Deputy Minister: Seaspan Shouldn't Get Tax BreaksAccording to a report from Times Colonist, Bob Plecas, a former provincial deputy minister of economic development, said B.C. should not give Seaspan tax breaks to help its bid for federal shipbuilding work. Instead, the province could support training programs or build infrastructure, such as a road or railway spur line, which could assist other ventures as well. North Vancouver-based Seaspan, owner of Vancouver Shipyards, Vancouver Drydock, and Victoria Shipyards, is seeking tax breaks.
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jul 26, 2011 5:29:59 GMT -8
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/07/25/bc-shipbuilding-investment.html B.C. pledges $40 million to help shipbuilding bidThe B.C. government is promising a $40 million investment in training and tax credits if Vancouver-based Seaspan wins one of two federal shipbuilding contracts, Pat Bell, the minister of jobs, tourism and innovation, announced on Monday. "As promised, our government is helping Seaspan submit the strongest possible bid and this investment focuses on job creation," said Bell. "We are investing in our human capital by supporting the creation of marine industry jobs for years to come." BC Ferries is also promising to spend $20 million building up B.C.'s ship repair capacity, the provincially owned ferry service announced on Monday. "Nothing will help B.C.'s marine sector better than by securing a long-term federal shipbuilding contract," said David Hahn, president and CEO of BC Ferries. "A strong shipbuilding and repair sector in B.C. is important for us to receive competitive pricing as we maintain and upgrade our fleet in the future." The $40 million investment includes $35 million in labour tax credits for training over the 30-year life of the federal contract, and $5 million "to support the productivity and long-term viability of the broader marine sector." Bell said the full $40 million investiment would only be made if Seaspan wins the larger of the two contracts, and if Seaspan wins only the smaller contract, the government would prorate its investment. Three shipyards competing for contracts Seaspan is one of three shortlisted shipyards vying for two federal contracts worth $35 billion over the next 30 years. The money will be used to build Canada's next generation of combat and non combat ships. The federal government is expected to make its decisions this fall. One winner will be awarded the $25-billion combat vessel construction deal. Another bidder will be chosen to build the non-combat ships, which account for the remaining $8 billion of contracts initially. That order could grow to include more Coast Guard replacements. Last month Premier Christy Clark pledged her support for the multibillion-dollar bid, calling it a "once in a generation" opportunity. She has already pledged $550,000 for a shipbuilding training program at Camoson College in Saanich. Clark has said that if Seaspan's bid is successful, it could create 6,800 jobs in Vancouver and Victoria.
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Post by mrdot on Jul 26, 2011 6:34:15 GMT -8
:)while this news is encouraging, lets hope the dye has not already been cast with our fee enterprise ferry "corp" espousing keeping repair options open in our once industrous shipyards of supernatural BC, their policy more likely to produce scrapyards down mexico way! mrdot.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 26, 2011 8:32:09 GMT -8
"Nothing will help B.C.'s marine sector better than by securing a long-term federal shipbuilding contract," said David Hahn, president and CEO of BC Ferries.
"A strong shipbuilding and repair sector in B.C. is important for us to receive competitive pricing as we maintain and upgrade our fleet in the future." -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Translation: "We'll spend our money in Germany, because it's not our job to help the BC economy, and we'll let the feds support BC shipbuilding, so that we can get cheaper deals in future."
What gall.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 26, 2011 9:08:00 GMT -8
"Nothing will help B.C.'s marine sector better than by securing a long-term federal shipbuilding contract," said David Hahn, president and CEO of BC Ferries.
"A strong shipbuilding and repair sector in B.C. is important for us to receive competitive pricing as we maintain and upgrade our fleet in the future."----------------------------------------------------------------------- Translation: "We'll spend our money in Germany, because it's not our job to help the BC economy, and we'll let the feds support BC shipbuilding, so that we can get cheaper deals in future." What gall. No midsize or smaller ferry is going to be built in Germany. Nor is any ferry going to be drydocked, maintained, or repaired there. So whether or not FSG gets follow-on orders, the FSG ferries already in service have to be maintained in BC. So Hahn's statement is valid.
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Post by Scott on Jul 26, 2011 16:27:21 GMT -8
How generous to invest $20 million back into the ship-building industry after getting $133 million back from the feds - money which was meant to protect the Canadian ship-building industry.
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Post by mrdot on Jul 26, 2011 16:51:58 GMT -8
::)to make a quick comparison gov't operates a lottery scheme which preys on the unfortunate, and proplem gamblers, which thrives on making gov't increased revenues by teasing these unfortunate with less than 10% winnings on every 100 $ of increased gambling urges! mind you all gov'ts are guilty! mrdot.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 26, 2011 21:44:43 GMT -8
No midsize or smaller ferry is going to be built in Germany. Nor is any ferry going to be drydocked, maintained, or repaired there. So whether or not FSG gets follow-on orders, the FSG ferries already in service have to be maintained in BC. So Hahn's statement is valid. Agree, his statement is valid. Essentially what Hahn was stating is that if the contract is secured, it will mean additional capacity and expertise so that Victoria and Vancouver Shipyards can be more competitive than they are now when it comes to larger vessel building. FSG would not be building midsize or smaller ships as it would become un-economical What is 'valid' supposed to mean, in this case? Was it valid when BC Ferries declared WMG off the short list for the Coastal contract, without apparently explaining why? Was it valid when David Hahn declared that BC shipyards could no longer build large vessels, as he has done more than once? Was it valid when he remarked sarcastically at an AGM about WMG's progress in completing the Island Sky? And despite NE's assertion, Hahn has also 'validly' declared that BC Ferries need not give BC yards all the refit business. Then you have Kevin Falcon, quoted in a Nova Scotia newspaper as saying that BC yards could not build the Coastals in a timely or cost effective manner. If I'm putting together the Davie or Irving bid for the federal contract, I would be sure to quote various BC Liberal cabinet ministers, as well as David Hahn, because they have in the past asserted that BC shipyards should stick to building Island Skys, and refurbishing ballrooms on cruise ships. WMG has also been quite happy with the low hanging fruit, keeping their yards busy without a huge workforce and without the need to upgrade to European efficiencies to win major newbuild contracts. But now all of a sudden, the same people who said we had to send half a billion to Germany to build three ferries because we couldn't do it here, are saying that we can build a naval fleet to defend the country, for thirty billion. If the feds are at the part of the vetting process where they ask 'what have you built lately?', I don't know exactly how Hahn and the Liberals can reply. We have the province with their johnny- come- lately add ons to the WMG bid, significantly after Quebec and Nova Scotia sweetened the pot for Davie and Irving. If the Liberals are so bloody concerned about our shipbuilding industry, why couldn't they have found the money that they're now offering, back when the Coastals were being tendered, and used it - not to mention this $20 million BC Ferries is adding- to bridge the gap between WMG's bid and what Flensburger charged? David Hahn has previously stated building in Germany saved about $60 million. Hundreds of jobs would have been created, shipyard infrastructure would have been renewed, and the current federal bid would have been strengthened by a demonstrated recent track record in major newbuilds. I don't care if people are tired of hearing about the four ferries being built overseas, as opposed to here. If WMG doesn't win this contract, I'm convinced that that decision will have played a key role in how this bid was perceived by Ottawa. This contract is massively important for our economy. Hopefully, various parties haven't talked us out of the game, or eliminated us by neglect. Fingers crossed.
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