|
Post by FerryDude2012 on Aug 3, 2010 16:31:36 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 3, 2010 17:28:28 GMT -8
A a guideline to those participating in this thread, from someone who was here on this forum for the discussions of the Queen of Oak Bay incident and the Queen of the North:
1) If you want to speculate, or ask various questions for which there aren't public answers yet, be aware that you're jumping the gun, and that you won't likely find any satisfactory answers for a while yet.
2) Be sensitive to the crew and other mariners who may be reading this thread.
3) Again, if there aren't likely any answers yet, maybe you can hold-off on asking direct questions to a forum that knows only as much as you yourself know about the incident.
4) Again, if you know of any BCF crew in real life or on forum, you should respect their need to follow due-course (ie they will be keeping their mouths shut in public), and don't ask them questions. Consider your respect for their profession and be sensitive to their situations.
5) Again again and again, if you are asking stuff that is speculative, be aware that you're only going to get speculative answers here.
6) If you want to rant, go ahead and type it, and then delete it. No one needs to read your steam.
Thanks !
ps: as some of you will remember from the Queen of the North thread, I was far from perfect in my own speculation. So learn from my mistakes, and try to respect the process here. We may be talking about this day for a few years to come.
|
|
|
Post by fargowolf on Aug 3, 2010 17:45:55 GMT -8
Yep, that was me ;D
|
|
|
Post by Scott (Former Account) on Aug 3, 2010 18:40:47 GMT -8
Queen of Nanaimo is on the move. Currently, she's off Moresby Island heading southbound at 11.5 knots. Unclear at this time if she will be heading to Swartz Bay or EGD for repairs...
|
|
|
Post by lmtengs on Aug 3, 2010 18:42:36 GMT -8
1) If you want to speculate, or ask various questions for which there aren't public answers yet, be aware that you're jumping the gun, and that you won't likely find any satisfactory answers for a while yet. 2) Be sensitive to the crew and other mariners who may be reading this thread. 3) Again, if there aren't likely any answers yet, maybe you can hold-off on asking direct questions to a forum that knows only as much as you yourself know about the incident. 4) Again, if you know of any BCF crew in real life or on forum, you should respect their need to follow due-course (ie they will be keeping their mouths shut in public), and don't ask them questions. Consider your respect for their profession and be sensitive to their situations. 5) Again again and again, if you are asking stuff that is speculative, be aware that you're only going to get speculative answers here. 6) If you want to rant, go ahead and type it, and then delete it. No one needs to read your steam. Lemme guess: Point 1 there, directed towards me... point 2? Not totally sure... Point three, definitely directed towards me, point 4, probably not. Points 5 and 6? Yup, for me.
|
|
|
Post by lmtengs on Aug 3, 2010 18:44:07 GMT -8
Queen of Nanaimo is on the move. Currently, she's off Moresby Island heading southbound at 11.5 knots. Unclear at this time if she will be heading to Swartz Bay or EGD for repairs... Whoah, whoah... how the heck did she get all the way to Moresby this fast??? And why? EDIT: Oh, nevermind Little Moresby... brain just clicked ;D
|
|
|
Post by FerryDude2012 on Aug 3, 2010 19:37:24 GMT -8
1) If you want to speculate, or ask various questions for which there aren't public answers yet, be aware that you're jumping the gun, and that you won't likely find any satisfactory answers for a while yet. 2) Be sensitive to the crew and other mariners who may be reading this thread. 3) Again, if there aren't likely any answers yet, maybe you can hold-off on asking direct questions to a forum that knows only as much as you yourself know about the incident. 4) Again, if you know of any BCF crew in real life or on forum, you should respect their need to follow due-course (ie they will be keeping their mouths shut in public), and don't ask them questions. Consider your respect for their profession and be sensitive to their situations. 5) Again again and again, if you are asking stuff that is speculative, be aware that you're only going to get speculative answers here. 6) If you want to rant, go ahead and type it, and then delete it. No one needs to read your steam. Lemme guess: Point 1 there, directed towards me... point 2? Not totally sure... Point three, definitely directed towards me, point 4, probably not. Points 5 and 6? Yup, for me. Point 2 goes for everybody. Point 4 goes for me, I have one of my parents working on Route 1 and 30 (Route 1 all summer), and I used to have an uncle working on the 'Nanaimo, so I could understand their sensitivity to the situation if it happened to them. I can also confirm via siitech that the Queen of Nanaimo is docked in Berth 3 in Swartz Bay vtslite.siitech.com/VTSLite/AView.aspx?lat=48.7598100808921&lng=-123.322219848633&zoom=11&mmsi=316001254&set=DJLN
|
|
|
Post by Blisswood on Aug 3, 2010 19:39:32 GMT -8
Siitech's latest posting at 3:03 AM Greenwich/Zulu time: Nanaimo is approaching Swartz Bay (23 minutes ago). BC Ferries' site (8:30 PM Pacific time) shows her "In Port, 0 knots" at Swartz Bay, with the little balloon indicating destination "Long Harbour".
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on Aug 3, 2010 19:40:35 GMT -8
Might I also add in more direct language that any crew members who are reading this are probably under instruction/orders to not discuss the event while the investigation is still pending.
|
|
Mirrlees
Voyager
Bathtub!
Deck Engineer- Queen of Richmond
Posts: 1,013
|
Post by Mirrlees on Aug 3, 2010 20:41:17 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by lmtengs on Aug 3, 2010 22:19:22 GMT -8
I wonder: Couldn't they put cages around the ships' propellers, the same way that is done on Hovercraft prop blades, and those boats that run in the Everglades? It would reduce conflict with crab/prawn traps which are found all over in the strait, and it would reduce injuries sustained to marine life straying too close to the prop blades, not to mention the jumpers who have gotten killed in the props... I have no idea if it's ever been tried with sub-surface props though, so god knows if it would affect fuel economy or ship speed. If it worked though, it would, at least in the long run, reduce BC Ferries ship costs by quite a bit. Here's an example of what I mean: mascots2010.cis.fiu.edu/uploads/Venue/airboat.jpg
|
|
|
Post by FerryDude2012 on Aug 3, 2010 22:31:34 GMT -8
Note to all - Bowen Queen crew are on days off, they get tuesday, wednesday off and work thurs - monday. According to an earlier BC Ferries Service Notice (see ferriesbc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bcferriesnews&action=display&thread=7430&page=5 ) The Bowen Queen is scheduled to do one big round trip from Tsawwassen - Galiano - Mayne - Pender - Swartz Bay - Pender - Swartz Bay - Pender - Mayne - Galiano - Tsawwassen. Starting at 10:20am at Tsawwassen and arriving back at Tsawwassen at 6:45pm. (For complete schedule, see the service notice on that thread)
|
|
|
Post by dofd on Aug 3, 2010 22:33:15 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by glasseye on Aug 3, 2010 23:05:09 GMT -8
I wonder: Couldn't they put cages around the ships' propellers, It's theoretically possible but would completely gut fuel economy and vessel speed. The right tool for the job is a prop-mounted line cutter.
|
|
|
Post by NMcKay on Aug 4, 2010 5:55:40 GMT -8
i don't mean to be insensitive, but when they went to the aerial shot, the vessel had her propeller working in a forward motion, holding her against the dock like you would expect. was this after they de-fouled the propeller? and would you not notice a large amount of vibration if your propeller suddenly became fouled? this is definitely questions that need answering, and we definitely are not "In the Know".
|
|
|
Post by gordon on Aug 4, 2010 6:19:40 GMT -8
Did the Nor Ad not have this happen to her a couple of times last year(crab lines caught in her porp)
|
|
Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
|
Post by Koastal Karl on Aug 4, 2010 9:55:54 GMT -8
Why is the Bowen Queen going to Swartz Bay and not Long Harbour???
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2010 9:57:51 GMT -8
Just heard CKNW's 10:30 news: BC Ferries now says it WAS NOT rope around the propellers that caused the crash. Deborah Marshall says it was two metal pins that had apparently come loose from the oil distribution box.
|
|
|
Post by EGfleet on Aug 4, 2010 10:04:47 GMT -8
Just heard CKNW's 10:30 news: BC Ferries now says it WAS NOT rope around the propellers that caused the crash. Deborah Marshall says it was two metal pins that had apparently come loose from the oil distribution box. The Canadian Press - ONLINE EDITION Slipped dowels blamed for B.C. Ferry hard landing that injured five By: The Canadian Press 4/08/2010 12:20 PM | Comments: 0 VANCOUVER - Two slipped metal dowels are being blamed for the incident that injured four passengers and a crew member when a B.C. Ferry hit a dock in the Gulf Islands north of Victoria. B.C. Ferry spokeswoman Deborah Marshall says engineers inspecting the ship after the Tuesday morning incident found two steel dowels had dropped out of the securing mechanism on the port shaft oil distribution box. Marshall says that made the propeller inoperable, meaning the captain of the Queen of Nanaimo had no control as the ferry approached the dock at Mayne Island. About 15 metres of rope was found wrapped around the propellers after the vessel hit the dock and Marshall says the rope may have created vibration which could have loosened the dowels, but the accident was caused by the mechanical problem. Repairs to the ferry are being made and sea trials are planned Wednesday afternoon, with hopes of returning the Queen of Nanaimo to service by Thursday morning. Marshall says a decision should be made after the sea trials wrap up and the investigation of why the steel dowels dropped out is still underway.
|
|
|
Post by Retrovision on Aug 5, 2010 4:49:56 GMT -8
Frankly I suspected that this might become a whole fishbowl of fury. - In any case, I managed to grab a free day of summer just for the purpose of seeing it unfold in person. From aboard the Spirit of British Columbia, to start, I was able to see an evenhand on what was happening, thanks in part ahead of time to readily available ship-tracking software. The rest was just odd timing. Our Queen of Nanaimo had obviously migrated to Swartz Bay... Look here (for now) at the first five images that I've recently uploaded: www.flickr.com/photos/bctransit
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Aug 5, 2010 12:49:41 GMT -8
From the BC Ferries' website... Queen of Nanaimo
Sailing Cancellations
Thursday, August 5th The Queen of Nanaimo will remain out of service for Thursday, August 5th, to complete repairs to the bow door frame and hinge. This repair work is expected to be complete Thursday night. With regards to Southern Gulf Islands schedule on August 5 only: The Bowen Queen will make one extraordinary sailing at 10:20 am from Tsawwassen taking the traffic that was reserved for the Queen of Nanaimo to Galiano Island and Mayne Island (only); The rest of the Queen of Nanaimo’s sailings are cancelled for the day, and reserved customers on these cancelled sailings have been contacted; The Bowen Queen will conduct its regularly scheduled sailings between Tsawwassen and Long Harbour on Salt Spring Island; All other Southern Gulf Islands sailings remain as scheduled. In the meantime, there are several options for customers wanting to travel between the Lower Mainland and the Southern Gulf Islands. Passengers can travel from Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay and then catch another ferry to the Southern Gulf Islands. In addition to the Bowen Queen’s scheduled sailings from Tsawwassen to Long Harbour tomorrow afternoon, customers can also take a vessel from either Horseshoe Bay to Departure Bay or from Tsawwassen to Duke Point and then travel via Crofton to Vesuvius on Salt Spring Island. For full schedule details visit www.bcferries.com.
|
|
Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
|
Post by Kam on Aug 5, 2010 15:04:56 GMT -8
With the Nanaimo's hard landing I'm sure there will be a TSB report, and I have some arm chair speculation of the types of things we may see in that report.
In the engine room:
Was the rope in the propeller a contributing factor to the dowels falling out of place
Was it a maintenance issue or a design issue
I will be interested to see what the circumstances where in the hours/days before the “failure”.
In the wheel house..
This is pure speculation, but from the bits I’ve put together it almost sounds like the engine RPM was never reduced, even after the first bump in to the dock. So one prop was pulling back, the other stuck ahead..
Did the crew have a visual indicator that the propeller was not in the commanded direction?
From what I recall the bridge crew can control propeller pitch as well as engine RPM, so it makes me wonder if the direction of the stuck propeller was not noticed until after the big bump... So all the time commanding full astern (or all back frantic...) but not slowing down.
|
|
Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
|
Post by Quatchi on Aug 5, 2010 15:38:13 GMT -8
From my understanding of the V class power system, the bridge cannot directly control the engines, just the props. I think the engines are controlled via telegraph just like in the Tsawwassen/Sidney, so the engineers start and stop the engines and change the speed as necessary. The key difference is that the engines rarely need to change their operation due to the controllable pitch props. There are a second set of pneumatic controls that directly changes the pitch of the props allowing for thrust level and thrust direction control.
So, from my understanding in theory the engineers can be asleep all day and the bridge can run the ship just fine. The only problem is the engines would be running full speed even when the props are at idol position, so fuel economy would suffer immensely while in terminal.
Also, I don't know if there is any indicator that tells the crew where the prop pitch actually is other than the control levelers position.
So, I am thinking that the bridge tried to reverse the one prop and it didn’t respond and therefore the ship didn’t slow down. Now even if they could have or did reverse the other prop the stuck one would still be going ahead causing the ship to bounce a few times before the engineers could slow down or shut down the engine attached to the bad prop.
So, from what I have heard this seems like a really unfortunate situation. We will have to wait and see what any reports say about the pins that came out to have a conclusion as to accident or negligence. It would seem that at the exact time of the occurrence everything was being done by the book and that the pin coming out was mostly a chance occurrence either from lack of maintenance or a design flaw or simply exhausted parts.
That’s my theory.
|
|
|
Post by Retrovision on Aug 5, 2010 15:39:59 GMT -8
I can't say that I respect speculation of the commands on the bridge of any ship at any time.
Perhaps this is a harbinger of things to come regarding the regulation of those dang lines put out every day around ferry terminals that - by my account - should be protected from them.
|
|
|
Post by glasseye on Aug 5, 2010 15:55:37 GMT -8
So one prop was pulling back, the other stuck ahead.. This seems unlikely given that the ship hit the dock more or less head on. If one prop was running ahead and the other was running astern, the ship would have turned and hit the dock at an angle--unless the thrust differential was small enough to be overcome by the Nanaimo's rudders and bow thrusters.
|
|