Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Aug 5, 2010 16:07:51 GMT -8
If one prop was running ahead and the other was running astern, the ship would have turned and hit the dock at an angle That effect is quite limited at higher speeds, mostly only works at just above a crawl. Usually the lineality of the moving hull tries to keep it going relatively straight.
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Post by FerryDude2012 on Aug 6, 2010 0:05:01 GMT -8
According to the BC Ferries website, the Queen of Nanaimo is back in service. (Copied from Village Bay Berth repairs notice)
Note: This Service Notice applies to the following route(s): - Vancouver (Tsawwassen) - Southern Gulf Islands - Victoria (Swartz Bay) - Southern Gulf Islands
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Village Bay Dock Repairs Saturna Island Transfers at Mayne Island Affected The Queen of Nanaimo returns to service on Friday, August 6th.
And also: Tsawwassen to Southern Gulf Islands Sailing time: Variable Friday, August 06, 2010 Vessel Scheduled Departure Actual Departure ETA or Arrival Time Status Queen of Nanaimo 10:20 AM Bowen Queen 2:00 PM Queen of Nanaimo 4:25 PM Bowen Queen 6:25 PM Queen of Nanaimo 8:25 PM
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Post by electrotech on Aug 6, 2010 8:12:23 GMT -8
In the engine room: Was the rope in the propeller a contributing factor to the dowels falling out of place Was it a maintenance issue or a design issue I will be interested to see what the circumstances where in the hours/days before the “failure”. In the wheel house.. This is pure speculation, but from the bits I’ve put together it almost sounds like the engine RPM was never reduced, even after the first bump in to the dock. So one prop was pulling back, the other stuck ahead.. Did the crew have a visual indicator that the propeller was not in the commanded direction? From what I recall the bridge crew can control propeller pitch as well as engine RPM, so it makes me wonder if the direction of the stuck propeller was not noticed until after the big bump... So all the time commanding full astern (or all back frantic...) but not slowing down. The QoN's CPP system defaults to full-ahead pitch on control failure. You can't generate any net braking with the other prop going full astern. Another factor...anyone know what the watertight doors are like down there? Seems to me I've seen hydraulic ram type AND old archaic screw-jack type doors.... Can't imagine the screw jack doors open very quick.
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Post by Nucksrule on Aug 7, 2010 18:09:10 GMT -8
I just happened to be headed to Galiano on Tuesaday and as a result of the Queen of Nanaimo crashing this was my travel itinerary:
7:00 am - wake up
9:00 am - discover the Queen of Nanaimo has crashed
9:30 am - alter travel plans as 10:20 is cancelled
9:30 am-12:00 pm - linger around the house pondering what went wrong
12:30 pm - arrive at Tsawassen, board Spirit of Vancouver Island bound for Victoria
1:20 pm - leave Tsawassen
2:50 pm - arrive Swartz Bay
4:35 pm - board the Queen of Cumberland on the 4:25 sailing to mayne/galiano
5:30 pm - Queen of Cumberland leaves Swartz Bay
6:30 pm - arrive at Mayne
7:15 pm - leave Mayne
7:40 pm - arrive Galiano
I can tell you this WAS NOT a fun day of travelling
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Post by Scott on Aug 7, 2010 20:48:52 GMT -8
Why did the CUMBERLAND sit at Swartz Bay for an hour after you loaded?
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Post by lmtengs on Aug 7, 2010 20:59:54 GMT -8
Why did the CUMBERLAND sit at Swartz Bay for an hour after you loaded? Maybe there were too many crews hanging around Galiano Island's other berth inspecting the Nanaimo?
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Post by FerryDude2012 on Aug 7, 2010 22:34:41 GMT -8
Why did the CUMBERLAND sit at Swartz Bay for an hour after you loaded? Maybe there were too many crews hanging around Galiano Island's other berth inspecting the Nanaimo? I assume you mean MAYNE Island? Actually, The Queen of Cumberland was behind schedule, due to the traffic delays of the Queen of Nanaimo passengers and vehicles boarding the 'Cumberland bound for Swartz Bay earlier.
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Post by Scott on Aug 7, 2010 22:49:04 GMT -8
Maybe there were too many crews hanging around Galiano Island's other berth inspecting the Nanaimo? No, Nucksrule said he boarded the CUMBERLAND at 4:35 at Swartz Bay, but didn't leave Swartz Bay until 5:30. I can understand it taking a bit longer to load the CUMBERLAND than usual with a full load and ramps, but it was just to two destinations... just wondering why it took an hour from loading to leaving. Maybe like FerryDude said, it was logistics of moving cars from the NANAIMO to the CUMBERLAND.
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Post by Ferryman on Aug 8, 2010 9:39:06 GMT -8
I'm not exactly aware of the reason why the Cumberland hung around Swartz Bay for so long.....but I do know that the Skeena Queen did in fact make a special trip to Pender Island that evening. I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it though.
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Post by oceaneer77 on Aug 8, 2010 13:29:38 GMT -8
Wow interesting stuff.
Just some background in CPP systems. The Propeller pitch is usually changed by increasing/decreasing the oil pressure to the hub of the propeller. The propeller shaft has a small hole down the center that leads to the actuator in the propeller hub.
In most old systems the fail position was 100% forward thrust, this was then changed to the norm of steerage thrust (just enough to steer the vessel) and the new standard is 40% thrust. I dont know what position or fail safe the Naniamo was running, but it sounds like not 100% forward.
It also sounds like the propeller was fine just the control system was not.
Indication of pitch will always be at the wheel house and MCR (motor control room) but some systems only use the oil pressure to the hub to indicate what the propeller is pitched to. So when you have a failure your pitch gauges can be unreliable.
On the ships that i have worked on we do a full function test before docking to ensure that we have propeller control. but on a busy ferry that is docking constantly this is not practical.
Oceaneer
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Post by Nucksrule on Aug 8, 2010 16:30:47 GMT -8
I was on the Cumberland as a foot passenger and was probably loaded before the cars, but I went on the outside decks and saw the ferry fully loaded by 4:55. They did announce something about the delay but I didn't hear it.
I have pictures to post of the Queen of Nanaimo but I have extremely limited internet access where I currently am.
Also at village bay, while enroute to Galiano, the cars loaded backwards onto the ferry and it was quite amusing to watch.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 9, 2010 19:18:12 GMT -8
BCFS reports on the crash are now available on their FOI website page: www.bcferries.com/about/foi/2010-004.html- there is 26 pages of info. have fun.... ;D Some highlights: ========== - page 1 of this has an interesting chronology of the events, from the initial assessment report. www.bcferries.com/files/foi/2010-004-IA-report.pdf---------------------------- BCFS incident overview report is in 2 parts, and is not cut/pastable. Here are some highlight comments: - the report is a timeline, showing how BCFS corporate assembled and reacted that morning to info that was arriving from the scene. - there was a discrepancy in passenger counts, so passengers were to disembark in single-file, so that an accurate exit-count could be done. - interesting running-commentary on how the traffic would be handled by the 2 route-5 ships. - the Nanaimo's bow-door was tough to fix. ============ LAI incident report was signed-off at end of Sept. www.bcferries.com/files/foi/2010-004-BCF-LAI-report.pdfHighlights: - detailed list of technical specifications - detailed series of events, from engineer dept and deck dept. - in the findings section, the mechanical problem was detailed - the crab-lines in the propeller are not considered to be a contributing factor to the incident. Recommendation that all ships need to have a "minimum distance to the berth" in order to slow down or abort a landing.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 10, 2010 22:26:08 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 11, 2010 9:39:44 GMT -8
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Post by gordon on Dec 11, 2010 10:52:25 GMT -8
Are these dowels something that is normally checked daily prior to a vessels first sailing?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 30, 2010 13:13:45 GMT -8
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piglet
Chief Steward
Posts: 138
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Post by piglet on Dec 30, 2010 17:43:16 GMT -8
An interesting list and just ask NASA how important O rings are, guess they are as important on ferries. Having worked on diesel engines in confined areas, as soon as I saw the mist in the air I knew what was coming but my partner couldn't believe how fast it happened. Thanks for that view.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Aug 7, 2012 14:10:28 GMT -8
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bargain
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 44
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Post by bargain on Aug 8, 2012 8:32:01 GMT -8
From what I understand the breaking (...braking...) system was entirely inoperable!
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Post by Ferryman on Aug 14, 2012 13:53:24 GMT -8
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