|
Post by explorer on Feb 2, 2022 12:49:52 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Feb 2, 2022 13:11:43 GMT -8
bump to signify that I moved all of the "Update to Route 5" posts into this existing thread. Conversation on said topic should continue here.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,172
|
Post by Neil on Feb 2, 2022 14:53:05 GMT -8
"BC Ferries' long term plan, or maybe more accurately, long term wish list, is for thirteen 'island class' vessels. According to a regional district rep, the plan involved two of those boats on route six. I can't remember the source for that. I can see two of those thirteen being placed at Fulford, given the constricted nature of the terminal and area. Two island class boats could mean departures every 45-50 minutes, given their quicker loading, which would actually mean a capacity increase from the Skeena. A fly in the ointment would be the election of a Liberal government in Victoria, which would send us back to minimal service levels and likely fare increases. Two boat service on any of the smaller routes is really expensive, and the Clark/Campbell regimes never showed that kind of commitment to coastal communities."
All eyes are on Route 19 with the advent of the 2 New Island Class Vessels this Spring. The Plan I believe is service every 40 Min during Peak Demand 0700 -1900. Then tie up one vessel and run a single service in the evening when low demand kicks in. 1-12 Hr Shift & 2-8 Hr Shifts for Crew. Nanaimo & Gabriola have the same issues as Crofton and Salt Spring's Vesuvius Bay and Fulford Harbour, not enough Car Park Containment Areas and it spills out onto our Roadways preventing 2 way traffic. That's why they chose 2 smaller ferries over one 100 Vehicle Ferry. It's documented in their submission for funding to the Commission in the Fall of 2018. The Fix for Route 6 is the exact model of the Program for Route 19, with a couple of differences. Using 2 - 40 year olde vessels that have straight forward ease of loading and with 1 hr turnaround times. It should be easier on Crews to maintain ontime performance. We take the vehicles and traffic gridlock of our Roadways and put them on the ferries using frequency. Should more traffic than envisioned be siphoned off Route 4, the interval frequency could possibly be ramped up to 40 min turnarounds with traffic demand. This is the immediate Fix for Route 6 because both Vessels are available. In other words, it gives us immediate relief from Traffic Gridlock at Crofton, Vesuvius Bay and Fulford Harbour now. In talking with BCF 3 weeks ago the next tranche of Island Class Vessels will not be committed for until at least 2030. Then there was the comment from BC Ferries Media in October 2021 that the MV Quinsam should service us adequately until 2035. Route 6 hasn't been neglected all these years, some might say its been completely abandoned. That comment is patently unreasonably, given the data. Once we turn the corner on Omicron we are back to a Traffic Nightmare at all 3 Terminals. I think you might be looking at things a tad simplistically. You're not taking into account the expenditure of suddenly going to two vessels on a route that has always had one, not to mention the crewing challenges to a ferry system that currently has issues just covering the sailings they have. And that's not just due to covid. As well, Salt Spring isn't the only island in need of service upgrades. You say route six has been "completely abandoned", but it at least has had an upgrade from the Howe Sound Queen. Hornby, on the other hand, has had the Kahloke for probably more than 25 years, and regularly endures four sailing waits or more on busy summer weekends, and residents count themselves fortunate at any given time if they're not left behind in summer. Crews are also working vast hours of overtime in peak season. It could well be argued that Quinitsa is much more needed there. In any event, many island communities can make a case for better service, but locals rarely look at the needs of the system as a whole. I don't envy management in constantly being the bad guys in trying to allocate limited resources.
|
|
|
Post by explorer on Feb 2, 2022 16:07:54 GMT -8
BC Ferries' MV Quinitsa, which is now serving the Vesuvius-Crofton ferry route.
NEWS Use Of Quinitsa For Fulford-Swartz Bay Summer Runs Promoted By Gail Sjuberg Last updated Jan 27, 2022
Following the submission of an online petition demanding two-ship service on the Crofton-Vesuvius ferry route, a second proposal to supplement Fulford-Swartz Bay summertime service has been made public.
Last week Salt Spring Island Ferry Advisory Committee (SSIFAC) chair Harold Swierenga released the committee’s suggestion that the MV Quinitsa, currently serving the Vesuvius-Crofton route (Route 6), be used to add extra sailings during peak times of the day in summer months between Fulford and Swartz Bay (Route 4).
The idea was submitted to BC Ferries in the form of a service request last August. (See sidebar below.)
In the meantime, Salt Spring resident David Courtney came up with the idea of using the Quinitsa as a second vessel continuously on Route 6 when the larger MV Quinsam becomes the permanent vessel on that route this spring. More than 1,900 people have supported that idea on a change.org petition site. Courtney has sought support from residents and politicians on Vancouver Island who are impacted by ferry-related traffic congestion in Crofton, as well as Salt Spring Islanders.
Brian Anderson, BC Ferries’ vice president of strategy and community engagement, has responded to Courtney’s idea on page 12 of this paper by stating that “Substantial service increases, such as adding a second ship onto a route, require investments in terminal infrastructure along with an amendment to the [Coastal Ferry Services] Contract. Dedicating a second ship to this route at this time is not feasible because there is no spare to deploy.” The corporation says it is also committed to other improvements on Route 6, in addition to making the Quinsam the year-round vessel, which can take 19 more vehicles than the Quinitsa and is easy to load.
“The SSIFAC does not consider the question of whether the Quinitsa or any other ferry could be better utilized on Route 4 or Route 6 to be an either/or question,” said Swierenga. “The Quinsam will provide a significant upgrade in service to Route 6 this spring, leaving the issues of Route 4 to be dealt with. When the ferry lineup in Fulford extends past the ‘pinch point,’ there is a whole village with hundreds of residents depending on one lane for traffic in both directions. There is, unfortunately, no other access and no side streets into which traffic can diverge. The non-ferry traffic going into Fulford is much heavier than the non-ferry traffic going down Vesuvius Bay Road toward the ferry terminal.”
He also said an additional danger point exists on Fulford-Ganges Road where it curves just past the Beaver Point Road turnoff when people are driving into Fulford.
“The road down to the terminal in Vesuvius is much straighter and motorists have a much clearer view of the entire traffic situation,” he said, adding that “Neither situation is acceptable from a safety standpoint, but there is at least some improvement coming to Route 6 this spring.”
Swierenga said “both Vesuvius and Crofton terminals are scheduled for redevelopment by the summer of 2027 and with the future coming of the twin Island Class ferries, there is an evolving solution to the vehicle lineup and ferry capacity problems on this route.”
BC Ferries has not stated its position on the SSIFAC proposal.
Courtney has expressed frustration about the SSIFAC position and is urging people who support his idea to express that to Swierenga, Salt Spring CRD director Gary Holman and local trustee Peter Grove.
Following is the Salt Spring Island Ferry Advisory Committee rationale for using the MV Quinitsa on Route 4 as a supplement to the Skeena Queen in summer months beginning in 2022, as submitted in a formal service request to BC Ferries on Aug. 4, 2021.
1) There has been a long recognized safety issue on the Fulford-Ganges Road when the ferry lineup extends past the “pinch-point.’ Although there have been discussions, studies and proposals over the past three decades to overhaul the Fulford terminal and increase parking availability, little substantive has changed and the challenges are very obviously still there. The problem is much more severe during peak season with the increased traffic and the much higher proportion of tourists unfamiliar with the situation. Our position is essentially that if there is no apparent possibility of increasing the supply of parking for the ferry lineup, then the option would be to reduce the demand for this parking by offering more capacity on the ferries. Although vehicle lineups past the pinch point do occur all year round, they are much more common during the peak season, which we are concerned with here. Not only would our suggestion greatly increase safety but it would also substantially reduce the need for traffic control personnel on the Fulford-Ganges Road.
We recognize that there are other terminals in the system where ferry traffic lines up to some extent on the travelled part of the road but the vast bulk of the traffic tends to be ferry related while in Fulford there is a village with commercial establishments as well as homes with, unfortunately, no other vehicle access.
2) There is significant anecdotal evidence that the overloading of the Skeena Queen and the resulting two-hour wait for the next sailing has resulted in ferry users utilizing Route 6 instead, resulting in the well-known overloading of that route. Increasing the capacity on Route 4 would also help reduce the demand on Route 6 and thereby reduce the overloading and lineups on that route as well.
3) Hourly service on Route 4 during the peak season would be a major benefit to Route 1/4 thrufare travellers. Travellers in the Route 4/1 direction who miss the Route 1 connection at SWB only have to wait an hour for the next Tsawwassen-bound sailing while travellers on the Route 1/4 direction who miss the Skeena (it is often full when you drive off the Route 1 ship in peak season) have a two-hour wait. Hourly service on Route 4 during the busy time of day would mean a wait of only one hour.
4) Hourly service on Route 4 during the peak season could very possibly eliminate the need for the traditional Saturday extra sailing of the Skeena.
5) The above measures to resolve the pressures on the Fulford terminal and the Skeena Queen would put off the need to significantly modify and expand the BCF presence on the ground at that location. Eventually, terminal improvements will be needed, but the current safety and traffic concerns would be significantly alleviated.
6) We recognize that the Quinitsa is a designated relief ferry to replace other ferries while they undergo maintenance or repair, but since most of that work is undertaken during the non-peak season, utilizing it on Route 4 during the peak season would not be a major disruption. It is also very conducive to this requested service in that the extra dock at Fulford is available to park the Quinitsa when it is not in service.
We would ask that BC Ferries consider that a peak season service by the Quinitsa would have it making the first Fulford-Swartz Bay sailing at 8:50 a.m., then leaving SWB at 10 a.m. and continuing the pattern 10:50, 12:50, 2:50 from Fulford and 12, 2 and 4 from SWB except on Fridays when the schedule would be two hours later to accommodate the heavier Friday evening traffic to Salt Spring.
We recognize that the Quinitsa is theoretically scheduled for retirement later in this decade and would suggest that consideration be given to its eventual replacement by an Island Class ferry.
The Skeena Queen provides admirable service on Route 4 and we are sure that peak season backup by the Quinitsa would solve many of the current issues of safety and capacity on this route.
By GAIL SJUBERG
DRIFTWOOD EDITOR
Following the submission of an online petition demanding two-ship service on the Crofton-Vesuvius ferry route, a second proposal to supplement Fulford-Swartz Bay summertime service has been made public.
Last week Salt Spring Island Ferry Advisory Committee (SSIFAC) chair Harold Swierenga released the committee’s suggestion that the MV Quinitsa, currently serving the Vesuvius-Crofton route (Route 6), be used to add extra sailings during peak times of the day in summer months between Fulford and Swartz Bay (Route 4).
The idea was submitted to BC Ferries in the form of a service request last August. (See sidebar below.)
In the meantime, Salt Spring resident David Courtney came up with the idea of using the Quinitsa as a second vessel continuously on Route 6 when the larger MV Quinsam becomes the permanent vessel on that route this spring. More than 1,900 people have supported that idea on a change.org petition site. Courtney has sought support from residents and politicians on Vancouver Island who are impacted by ferry-related traffic congestion in Crofton, as well as Salt Spring Islanders.
Brian Anderson, BC Ferries’ vice president of strategy and community engagement, has responded to Courtney’s idea on page 12 of this paper by stating that “Substantial service increases, such as adding a second ship onto a route, require investments in terminal infrastructure along with an amendment to the [Coastal Ferry Services] Contract. Dedicating a second ship to this route at this time is not feasible because there is no spare to deploy.” The corporation says it is also committed to other improvements on Route 6, in addition to making the Quinsam the year-round vessel, which can take 19 more vehicles than the Quinitsa and is easy to load.
“The SSIFAC does not consider the question of whether the Quinitsa or any other ferry could be better utilized on Route 4 or Route 6 to be an either/or question,” said Swierenga. “The Quinsam will provide a significant upgrade in service to Route 6 this spring, leaving the issues of Route 4 to be dealt with. When the ferry lineup in Fulford extends past the ‘pinch point,’ there is a whole village with hundreds of residents depending on one lane for traffic in both directions. There is, unfortunately, no other access and no side streets into which traffic can diverge. The non-ferry traffic going into Fulford is much heavier than the non-ferry traffic going down Vesuvius Bay Road toward the ferry terminal.”
He also said an additional danger point exists on Fulford-Ganges Road where it curves just past the Beaver Point Road turnoff when people are driving into Fulford.
“The road down to the terminal in Vesuvius is much straighter and motorists have a much clearer view of the entire traffic situation,” he said, adding that “Neither situation is acceptable from a safety standpoint, but there is at least some improvement coming to Route 6 this spring.”
Swierenga said “both Vesuvius and Crofton terminals are scheduled for redevelopment by the summer of 2027 and with the future coming of the twin Island Class ferries, there is an evolving solution to the vehicle lineup and ferry capacity problems on this route.”
BC Ferries has not stated its position on the SSIFAC proposal.
Courtney has expressed frustration about the SSIFAC position and is urging people who support his idea to express that to Swierenga, Salt Spring CRD director Gary Holman and local trustee Peter Grove.
Following is the Salt Spring Island Ferry Advisory Committee rationale for using the MV Quinitsa on Route 4 as a supplement to the Skeena Queen in summer months beginning in 2022, as submitted in a formal service request to BC Ferries on Aug. 4, 2021.
1) There has been a long recognized safety issue on the Fulford-Ganges Road when the ferry lineup extends past the “pinch-point.’ Although there have been discussions, studies and proposals over the past three decades to overhaul the Fulford terminal and increase parking availability, little substantive has changed and the challenges are very obviously still there. The problem is much more severe during peak season with the increased traffic and the much higher proportion of tourists unfamiliar with the situation. Our position is essentially that if there is no apparent possibility of increasing the supply of parking for the ferry lineup, then the option would be to reduce the demand for this parking by offering more capacity on the ferries. Although vehicle lineups past the pinch point do occur all year round, they are much more common during the peak season, which we are concerned with here. Not only would our suggestion greatly increase safety but it would also substantially reduce the need for traffic control personnel on the Fulford-Ganges Road.
We recognize that there are other terminals in the system where ferry traffic lines up to some extent on the travelled part of the road but the vast bulk of the traffic tends to be ferry related while in Fulford there is a village with commercial establishments as well as homes with, unfortunately, no other vehicle access.
2) There is significant anecdotal evidence that the overloading of the Skeena Queen and the resulting two-hour wait for the next sailing has resulted in ferry users utilizing Route 6 instead, resulting in the well-known overloading of that route. Increasing the capacity on Route 4 would also help reduce the demand on Route 6 and thereby reduce the overloading and lineups on that route as well.
3) Hourly service on Route 4 during the peak season would be a major benefit to Route 1/4 thrufare travellers. Travellers in the Route 4/1 direction who miss the Route 1 connection at SWB only have to wait an hour for the next Tsawwassen-bound sailing while travellers on the Route 1/4 direction who miss the Skeena (it is often full when you drive off the Route 1 ship in peak season) have a two-hour wait. Hourly service on Route 4 during the busy time of day would mean a wait of only one hour.
4) Hourly service on Route 4 during the peak season could very possibly eliminate the need for the traditional Saturday extra sailing of the Skeena.
5) The above measures to resolve the pressures on the Fulford terminal and the Skeena Queen would put off the need to significantly modify and expand the BCF presence on the ground at that location. Eventually, terminal improvements will be needed, but the current safety and traffic concerns would be significantly alleviated.
6) We recognize that the Quinitsa is a designated relief ferry to replace other ferries while they undergo maintenance or repair, but since most of that work is undertaken during the non-peak season, utilizing it on Route 4 during the peak season would not be a major disruption. It is also very conducive to this requested service in that the extra dock at Fulford is available to park the Quinitsa when it is not in service.
We would ask that BC Ferries consider that a peak season service by the Quinitsa would have it making the first Fulford-Swartz Bay sailing at 8:50 a.m., then leaving SWB at 10 a.m. and continuing the pattern 10:50, 12:50, 2:50 from Fulford and 12, 2 and 4 from SWB except on Fridays when the schedule would be two hours later to accommodate the heavier Friday evening traffic to Salt Spring.
We recognize that the Quinitsa is theoretically scheduled for retirement later in this decade and would suggest that consideration be given to its eventual replacement by an Island Class ferry.
The Skeena Queen provides admirable service on Route 4 and we are sure that peak season backup by the Quinitsa would solve many of the current issues of safety and capacity on this route.
|
|
|
Post by explorer on Feb 2, 2022 16:24:11 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Feb 2, 2022 18:17:07 GMT -8
Bump to signify that I moved both of the "Route 4 - Summer of 2022 Request" posts into this existing thread. Conversation on said topic should continue here. Like Route 5 & 6, Route 4 falls under the umbrella of this thread.
|
|
|
Post by explorer on Feb 2, 2022 23:34:12 GMT -8
An artist rendering of B.C. Ferries’ new Island Class ferry, which will be deployed on the Nanaimo-Gabriola route by 2022. (B.C. Ferries image)
Hybrid vessels part of B.C. Ferries’ plans to reduce emissions Island Class vessels, coming by 2022, part of ferry corporation’s broader strategy
NICHOLAS PESCODSep. 23, 2019 9:59 a.m.NEWS New hybrid vessels connecting Nanaimo and Gabriola Island are a “game changer” locally, and part of a broader plan to reduce emissions, says B.C. Ferries’ CEO.
Mark Collins, president and chief executive officer for B.C. Ferries, said the corporation has placed a firm order for four Island Class vessels – subject to B.C. Ferries Commissioner approval – two of which will be deployed on the Nanaimo-Gabriola route by 2022. He said the two new ferries will increase passenger capacity from 400 to 600 people per hour, increase vehicle capacity from 60 to 94 cars per hour and result in sailings every 30 minutes.
Collins made the comments during a presentation to members of the Greater Nanaimo Chamber of Commerce on Friday at the Coast Bastion Hotel, where he talked mainly about B.C. Ferries’ efforts to become more environmentally responsible.
“Climate change is here and it is real,” he said. “It is happening and it is affecting us and we’d better embrace this.”
RELATED: B.C. Ferries reveals plans for downtown Nanaimo terminal improvements
B.C. Ferries was recently identified by the federal government as the single biggest emitter of noise in the Salish Sea. Collins said the company takes noise reduction seriously and is taking action.
“It’s not because we are the loudest or we have the nastiest frequencies. It’s because we are out there so much,” he said. “Nobody is on the water more than we are. Therefore we have a special duty to be quiet and this is the quietest ship we’ve ever made.”
Collins said B.C. Ferries is investing half a billion dollars in clean energy solutions and will likely invest $3 billion more in the coming decades.
“$500 million of investment has been put into technologies like liquefied natural gas … [and] we’re putting it into exhaust gas reduction, low-friction coatings, we’re reducing our fuel consumption, we are moving towards lowering h-vac systems on our ship,” he said. “There are a range of technologies that we are deploying to reduce our carbon emissions.”
RELATED: On the bridge with B.C. Ferries
Another way B.C. Ferries is attempting to lower its carbon footprint is by replacing its older vessels with newer, more efficient vessels according to Collins. He said the corporation is preparing and planning to replace the aging Queen of Cowichan, Queen of Alberni, Queen of New Westminster and Queen of Coquitlam ferries with 20 per cent larger and 25 per cent more efficient ships.
“We are now seeking a new generation of ship that burns one quarter less power and energy than the ships they replace…” the CEO said. “I’d love it to be half, but the reality is we’ve been trying to find four and five per cent for the last few years and we have now set the stretch target at 25 per cent.”
The Island Class ferries planned for the Nanaimo-Gabriola route will be powered by a hybrid diesel-electric battery power generation and propulsion system, which has the ability to become fully electric in the future according to Collins. He said the ferries will use ultra-low sulphur diesel fuel and are designed for low noise and low vibration.
“This is an all-new class designed just for British Columbia with every feature that we can think of to put in there to make it a light-footprint vessel,” Collins said.
B.C. Ferries wants to electrify its entire fleet sooner rather than later, Collin said, adding that the infrastructure isn’t in place yet and the technology isn’t advanced enough for it to make economical sense.
“We are still probably 25 years away from fully electrifying ships,” he said.
The company is currently converting Spirit-class ferries to LNG and the newer Salish-class ferries are also LNG-powered. Collins said one of the reasons for switching to LNG is because the company couldn’t wait around for the infrastructure or technology to catch up.
“We have got to do something in the meantime to get rid of the diesel and LNG right now is the best choice to get rid of diesel right now in the medium term,” he said. “It’s local, it costs less and it is way cleaner, but it is not as clean as electricity. So, we are focused on going to electricity as soon as the shore infrastructure is there.”
RELATED: B.C. Ferries CEO says new reservation system will improve efficiency
Collins said the long-term goal of B.C. Ferries is to have a “standardized” all-electric fleet that will be more efficient and reduce operating costs.
“We have 18 classes of ships on a fleet of 37 ships. That is a very heterogeneous fleet and we have got to move away from that,” he said. “WestJet doesn’t have 19 different airplanes, do they? They’ve got the 737 and the Q400s and a few other things and they do that because it is efficient. You can’t control the clean technologies if you got a whole mixed bag because then every ship has got different challenges.”
The other benefit of a standardized fleet is that the passenger experience will generally be the same regardless of the ship, added Collins.
“Our goal is that you’ll have to read the name on the ship to know what ship you’re on, that is how identical they will be. “Nobody knows what plane you get on, you just know its another 737,” he said.
Collins said in addition to more fuel-efficient vessels, B.C. Ferries is planning to move to an all-electric vehicle fleet and expects its suppliers to be onboard with its energy-reduction targets.
“If you’re going to work for B.C. Ferries as a supplier today you need to be prepared to contribute to a 25-per cent energy reduction or we probably don’t have very much to discuss,” he said.
RELATED: B.C. Ferries to reveal Nanaimo-Gabriola terminal plans
Speaking to the News Bulletin after his presentation, Collins said the increased service on the Nanaimo-Gabriola route will make a big difference in people’s lives, especially on Gabriola Island.
“What people will notice the most is the frequency,” he said. “There will still be peaks and people will still have to wait but when you know the next ferry is in 20 minutes rather than an hour away, people are much more comfortable with that.”
Collins said passengers will appreciate the new Island Class vessels, which will replace the MV Quinsam built in 1982.
“It’s a similar experience but modernized, cleaner and neater. We are going to have a bigger lounge and more comfortable seating. The lounge is on the main deck so elevators aren’t necessary on the ship, so this should be very very accessible,” he said. “The ship is going to be faster and it should be quieter because it is going to be operating electric a lot of the time.”
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Feb 3, 2022 6:41:07 GMT -8
I moved the above post into this existing thread.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 3, 2022 7:14:54 GMT -8
An artist rendering of B.C. Ferries’ new Island Class ferry, which will be deployed on the Nanaimo-Gabriola route by 2022. (B.C. Ferries image) This forum has an entire thread on the development of the Island Class ferries. This is the type of article that you'd find there, posted along with context. H E R E
|
|
|
Post by explorer on Feb 10, 2022 18:56:06 GMT -8
Sorry, not familiar.
What's the difference between Route 5 and 5a? Is Route 5a Non-Stop to Saturna and turns ard and goes straight back to Swartz Bay?
Thx.
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Feb 11, 2022 9:19:25 GMT -8
Moved the post above into this thread
|
|
|
Post by articulated on Feb 11, 2022 20:27:33 GMT -8
Sorry, not familiar. What's the difference between Route 5 and 5a? Is Route 5a Non-Stop to Saturna and turns ard and goes straight back to Swartz Bay? Thx. It really just denotes the fact that there's two ferries on the route, which operate on different schedules with different stops. I think both boats end up serving all five terminals at various points during the week. 5 refers to the larger vessel (and theoretically the schedule with higher ridership), while 5A is for the smaller vessel. Route 9 (Tsawwassen - Southern Gulf Islands) is referred to the same way, with the Salt Spring Island-based vessel designated as "9" and the Tsawwassen-based vessel operating on the more limited schedule as "9A". EDIT: I should clarify that I don't know if BC Ferries internally refers to these vessels in the same way (externally they don't), and my understanding is that this is more of a fan terminology to clarify the placement/schedule of the vessels on these routes.
|
|
dave2
Chief Steward
Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
Posts: 155
|
Post by dave2 on Feb 13, 2022 12:37:16 GMT -8
Sorry, not familiar. What's the difference between Route 5 and 5a? Is Route 5a Non-Stop to Saturna and turns ard and goes straight back to Swartz Bay? Thx. It really just denotes the fact that there's two ferries on the route, which operate on different schedules with different stops. I think both boats end up serving all five terminals at various points during the week. 5 refers to the larger vessel (and theoretically the schedule with higher ridership), while 5A is for the smaller vessel. Route 9 (Tsawwassen - Southern Gulf Islands) is referred to the same way, with the Salt Spring Island-based vessel designated as "9" and the Tsawwassen-based vessel operating on the more limited schedule as "9A". EDIT: I should clarify that I don't know if BC Ferries internally refers to these vessels in the same way (externally they don't), and my understanding is that this is more of a fan terminology to clarify the placement/schedule of the vessels on these routes. And back in the day (40-50 years ago) I remember a route 4A, which was a Swartz Bay–Fulford Harbour–Otter Bay triangle run, using the old Pender Queen. EDIT or it may have been the Salt Spring Queen… memory gets fuzzy after all these years.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,172
|
Post by Neil on Feb 13, 2022 18:47:13 GMT -8
It really just denotes the fact that there's two ferries on the route, which operate on different schedules with different stops. I think both boats end up serving all five terminals at various points during the week. 5 refers to the larger vessel (and theoretically the schedule with higher ridership), while 5A is for the smaller vessel. Route 9 (Tsawwassen - Southern Gulf Islands) is referred to the same way, with the Salt Spring Island-based vessel designated as "9" and the Tsawwassen-based vessel operating on the more limited schedule as "9A". EDIT: I should clarify that I don't know if BC Ferries internally refers to these vessels in the same way (externally they don't), and my understanding is that this is more of a fan terminology to clarify the placement/schedule of the vessels on these routes. And back in the day (40-50 years ago) I remember a route 4A, which was a Swartz Bay–Fulford Harbour–Otter Bay triangle run, using the old Pender Queen. There was a second Gulf Islands vessel out of Swartz Bay in summer as of 1977, and perhaps as early as '75. From '77 it was the Saltspring Queen, or the Vesuvius Queen. By 1984, it was Quinitsa. The '77 schedule does refer to route 4A. Prior to '75, a few supplemental stops would be done by the fifth vessel on route one in summer. Maybe they do have a 5 and 5A for operations purposes, with 5A being the less busy runs done by the Mayne Queen, but there's no such distinction in their official annual route reports.
|
|
|
Post by explorer on Mar 27, 2022 22:06:23 GMT -8
"BC Ferries' long term plan, or maybe more accurately, long term wish list, is for thirteen 'island class' vessels. According to a regional district rep, the plan involved two of those boats on route six. I can't remember the source for that. I can see two of those thirteen being placed at Fulford, given the constricted nature of the terminal and area. Two island class boats could mean departures every 45-50 minutes, given their quicker loading, which would actually mean a capacity increase from the Skeena. A fly in the ointment would be the election of a Liberal government in Victoria, which would send us back to minimal service levels and likely fare increases. Two boat service on any of the smaller routes is really expensive, and the Clark/Campbell regimes never showed that kind of commitment to coastal communities."
All eyes are on Route 19 with the advent of the 2 New Island Class Vessels this Spring. The Plan I believe is service every 40 Min during Peak Demand 0700 -1900. Then tie up one vessel and run a single service in the evening when low demand kicks in. 1-12 Hr Shift & 2-8 Hr Shifts for Crew. Nanaimo & Gabriola have the same issues as Crofton and Salt Spring's Vesuvius Bay and Fulford Harbour, not enough Car Park Containment Areas and it spills out onto our Roadways preventing 2 way traffic. That's why they chose 2 smaller ferries over one 100 Vehicle Ferry. It's documented in their submission for funding to the Commission in the Fall of 2018. The Fix for Route 6 is the exact model of the Program for Route 19, with a couple of differences. Using 2 - 40 year olde vessels that have straight forward ease of loading and with 1 hr turnaround times. It should be easier on Crews to maintain ontime performance. We take the vehicles and traffic gridlock of our Roadways and put them on the ferries using frequency. Should more traffic than envisioned be siphoned off Route 4, the interval frequency could possibly be ramped up to 40 min turnarounds with traffic demand. This is the immediate Fix for Route 6 because both Vessels are available. In other words, it gives us immediate relief from Traffic Gridlock at Crofton, Vesuvius Bay and Fulford Harbour now. In talking with BCF 3 weeks ago the next tranche of Island Class Vessels will not be committed for until at least 2030. Then there was the comment from BC Ferries Media in October 2021 that the MV Quinsam should service us adequately until 2035. Route 6 hasn't been neglected all these years, some might say its been completely abandoned. That comment is patently unreasonably, given the data. Once we turn the corner on Omicron we are back to a Traffic Nightmare at all 3 Terminals. I think you might be looking at things a tad simplistically. You're not taking into account the expenditure of suddenly going to two vessels on a route that has always had one, not to mention the crewing challenges to a ferry system that currently has issues just covering the sailings they have. And that's not just due to covid. As well, Salt Spring isn't the only island in need of service upgrades. You say route six has been "completely abandoned", but it at least has had an upgrade from the Howe Sound Queen. Hornby, on the other hand, has had the Kahloke for probably more than 25 years, and regularly endures four sailing waits or more on busy summer weekends, and residents count themselves fortunate at any given time if they're not left behind in summer. Crews are also working vast hours of overtime in peak season. It could well be argued that Quinitsa is much more needed there. In any event, many island communities can make a case for better service, but locals rarely look at the needs of the system as a whole. I don't envy management in constantly being the bad guys in trying to allocate limited resources. Appreciate there are logistical problems with Crews currently and training of same. Having said that a Spokesperson wrote last Fall stating that they anticipate loads returning to Pre Pandemic levels in 2 to 3 years time. Meanwhile we were tracking the data from June thru September and it was up 19% over and above the Pre Pandemic levels in the same period in 2019. It doesn't instil confidence from the VP of Customer Engagements Office. Same Office suggested that there would be immediate changes for the Summer in January 2022. On March 10, 2022 it was announced the Quinsam would be deployed on April 13, 2022 which gives us 2 AEQ over the Bowen Queen. An apology for no other improved services. The 2 Ferry Service on Route 6 relieves the Traffic Gridlock at Crofton & Vesuvius Bay. And, to a lesser extent at Fulford Hrb as we begin to siphon off and redirect traffic to the more convenient and cost effective Route 6. Which is the most cost effective Route in Inter Island System. Even with the addition of MV Quinitsa, it may still be claim that spot. At this point the request for a Porti Potti on the Wharf at Crofton is still pending from last Summer for our Ladies and Children. If there is any question that Route 6 hasn't been neglected, view the 86 comments from the near 2000 Petitioners. The Petition is still active and will hopefully be tabled this week in the Legislature. www.change.org/p/bc-ferries-ceo-management-team-2-ferry-service-for-vesuvius-bay-to-crofton-the-fix-for-route-sixwww.gulfislandsdriftwood.com/news/community-fed-up-with-quinitsa-and-wants-two-ship-plan-sooner/
|
|
|
Post by Mike C on Mar 29, 2022 20:44:44 GMT -8
Just a couple thoughts on the problem of meeting community need with capacity vs. terminal design...
Long-term, if population growth on islands like Saltspring is steady over time, it is not financially or logistically feasible to constantly expand holding lots in perpetuity. Eventually, there is a need to have transit and other transport modes meet the needs of folks who currently need to drive, or will need to drive if they move to the island. Personally I see two main challenges with this: 1) lack of service, and 2) issues with terminal design for lack of transit capacity.
For the purposes of this discussion, I'm mostly thinking about #2. BC Ferries terminal designs have historically not considered things like transit infrastructure or proper turnarounds when doing terminal design. This is something our friends down in Washington State do far better - transfers between ferries and transit buses or trains are often done undercover, in the same building, within the same facility. The design helps keep prospective riders dry, and the design of the infrastructure allows for growth of the service over time - so that when ferries become increasingly crunched in vehicle capacity and more folks make the decision to walk on, bus capacity and frequency can keep up.
Not so in BC - at Tsawwassen, Swartz Bay, Langdale, and Departure Bay, there is no shelter for passengers waiting for the bus to arrive at the ferry. At Horseshoe Bay, there is a small shelter that would facilitate about 10 bodies, at a location where the number of people connecting from ferry to bus can outnumber 200 on occasion. At Duke Point, there is no transit service to speak of. Countless other locations up and down the coast (including all three terminals on SSI, plus Crofton) see regular transit service, but the terminal designs do not accommodate easy access for buses, or contain accessible infrastructure for a bus to alight/load. Transit vehicles on SSI are also limited in size and capacity, primarily because of the lack of a proper turnaround area at two of the three terminals.
Unfortunately as I browse some of the terminal redevelopment plans and conceptual designs, this is still not being given the consideration it deserves. There is space for access for all transport modes, but the effort has not been made to make it accessible, appealing, or future-proofed. The province is growing on all fronts, and as we think about this kind of long-range transportation planning, BCF should recognize its role in that system, rather than as a standalone operation; and be mindful that the decisions made today are going to have an extended impact on how the services are shaped and grow over time.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,172
|
Post by Neil on Mar 30, 2022 21:59:31 GMT -8
Just a couple thoughts on the problem of meeting community need with capacity vs. terminal design... Long-term, if population growth on islands like Saltspring is steady over time, it is not financially or logistically feasible to constantly expand holding lots in perpetuity. Eventually, there is a need to have transit and other transport modes meet the needs of folks who currently need to drive, or will need to drive if they move to the island. Personally I see two main challenges with this: 1) lack of service, and 2) issues with terminal design for lack of transit capacity For the purposes of this discussion, I'm mostly thinking about #2. BC Ferries terminal designs have historically not considered things like transit infrastructure or proper turnarounds when doing terminal design. This is something our friends down in Washington State do far better - transfers between ferries and transit buses or trains are often done undercover, in the same building, within the same facility. The design helps keep prospective riders dry, and the design of the infrastructure allows for growth of the service over time - so that when ferries become increasingly crunched in vehicle capacity and more folks make the decision to walk on, bus capacity and frequency can keep up. Not so in BC - at Tsawwassen, Swartz Bay, Langdale, and Departure Bay, there is no shelter for passengers waiting for the bus to arrive at the ferry. At Horseshoe Bay, there is a small shelter that would facilitate about 10 bodies, at a location where the number of people connecting from ferry to bus can outnumber 200 on occasion. At Duke Point, there is no transit service to speak of. Countless other locations up and down the coast (including all three terminals on SSI, plus Crofton) see regular transit service, but the terminal designs do not accommodate easy access for buses, or contain accessible infrastructure for a bus to alight/load. Transit vehicles on SSI are also limited in size and capacity, primarily because of the lack of a proper turnaround area at two of the three terminals. Unfortunately as I browse some of the terminal redevelopment plans and conceptual designs, this is still not being given the consideration it deserves. There is space for access for all transport modes, but the effort has not been made to make it accessible, appealing, or future-proofed. The province is growing on all fronts, and as we think about this kind of long-range transportation planning, BCF should recognize its role in that system, rather than as a standalone operation; and be mindful that the decisions made today are going to have an extended impact on how the services are shaped and grow over time. It's true that BC Ferries has been woefully late to the game in terms of accommodating all elements of modern travel. When I think back to Horseshoe Bay in the 1960s, there was very little thought given to those travelling without cars. The designers of the provincially owned ferry system apparently thought that everyone was arriving in either automobiles, or in one of the inter city buses (Pacific Stage Lines and others) which drove straight on to the ferries. To this day, the passenger lounge at Swartz Bay is ridiculously inadequate on a busy day, and there are zero amenities in terms of food or other means to spend one's money. At least it has double decker buses to the door. However... it has to be noted that at the very least, BC Ferries has had one major shift in thinking. Rather than demanding that client communities carve out an increasing swath of land to accommodate growing vehicle traffic, BC Ferries, as a direct result of our current politics, is moving toward tailoring their service to the shore space available. Quadra and Gabriola are getting two vessels each, and long term plans indicate that Saltspring might follow. This is an expensive venture with regard to capital costs and crewing, but it at least eliminates the need for expensive terminal upgrades and property purchases. Other plans call for redesigning of terminals, such as on Hornby and Denman, which facilitate the movement of foot passengers and the loading/unloading of local buses. If this were England, it's hard to imagine a terminal like Tsawwassen without a rail link to the front door, particularly given the easy right of way that exists to make that happen. But we're living with the sorry legacy of a 'car as king' culture, and retro-fitting is often prohibitively expensive. We have a university at Point Grey with a student body in excess of 60,000, and we're only now developing a rail link that will... oops, stop a couple of miles short of campus. We've got a long way to go in terms of rationalizing our transit systems, and BC Ferries is very much an example of that.
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Mar 31, 2022 8:08:13 GMT -8
Just a couple thoughts ... It's true that BC Ferries has been woefully late to the game in terms of accommodating all elements of modern travel. When I think back to Horseshoe Bay in the 1960s, there was very little thought given to those travelling without cars. The designers of the provincially owned ferry system apparently thought that everyone was arriving in either automobiles, or in one of the inter city buses (Pacific Stage Lines and others) which drove straight on to the ferries. To this day, the passenger lounge at Swartz Bay is ridiculously inadequate on a busy day, and there are zero amenities in terms of food or other means to spend one's money. At least it has double decker buses to the door. However... it has to be noted that at the very least, BC Ferries has had one major shift in thinking. Rather than demanding that client communities carve out an increasing swath of land to accommodate growing vehicle traffic, BC Ferries, as a direct result of our current politics, is moving toward tailoring their service to the shore space available. Quadra and Gabriola are getting two vessels each, and long term plans indicate that Saltspring might follow. This is an expensive venture with regard to capital costs and crewing, but it at least eliminates the need for expensive terminal upgrades and property purchases. Other plans call for redesigning of terminals, such as on Hornby and Denman, which facilitate the movement of foot passengers and the loading/unloading of local buses. If this were England, it's hard to imagine a terminal like Tsawwassen without a rail link to the front door, particularly given the easy right of way that exists to make that happen. But we're living with the sorry legacy of a 'car as king' culture, and retro-fitting is often prohibitively expensive. We have a university at Point Grey with a student body in excess of 60,000, and we're only now developing a rail link that will... oops, stop a couple of miles short of campus. We've got a long way to go in terms of rationalizing our transit systems, and BC Ferries is very much an example of that. I sometimes think that maybe we need to revisit the way things were before the 'car became king' and we had the CPR with its BC Coast Service connecting us from downtown to downtown. I am not talking about the steamers of old, or flying cat sort of service, just a relatively fast, efficient & frequent service connecting communities rather than the ends of highways.
|
|
|
Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 10, 2022 12:38:50 GMT -8
A few years back, BC Ferries had the Kahloke being replaced in 2030... so maybe Hornbyites are supposed to be grateful for small mercies. I don't live there anymore, but I still have to remark that there is not an island in the entire system that has gone so long- 30 plus years- without a service improvement, despite sometimes multiple sailing waits in shoulder and peak seasons. Maybe Hornby needs a cabinet minister or industry tycoon to buy a summer place. Worked for Cortes, back in the late '60s. "Maybe Hornby needs a cabinet minister or industry tycoon to buy a summer place. Worked for Cortes, back in the late '60s."Perhaps having the BC Ferries Commissioner as a Ratepayer/Resident doesn't hurt either. Example - Saturna Island - Route 5, 5a & 9. Is the SGI one of the best serviced Group of Islands out there with the upgrade to the Salish Class Vessel pending, once the crewing issue is resolved. Route 5a using the Queen of Cumberland pending and appears some are still not happy. Is it possible that there won't be another sailing wait in the foreseeable future with introduction of the Salish Raven and the retirement of the Mayne Queen on Route 5 & 5a? 2021 Census SGI Population - 6100 up substantially from 2016. Saturna Island something less than 400 (345) permanent residents. Uplift Salish Class 138 AEQ and Cumberland of Queen 112 AEQ. If you talk to a Senior Strategic Planner at BCF, the plan is not to use the Ramps on the Queen of Cumberland reducing capacity to 85 AEQ and if use that same analogy, why go down into bilge on the Salish Raven, so it will have similar capacity of 80 to 85 AEQ. Now that's luxury! I guess we know where he has property - LOL. Gabriola Island - 2 New Island Class Vessels as of April 2022. The Minister & MLA from Gabriola Island (passionate politician) must be pleased for her Constituents. Not suggesting proper Ferry Service is linked to who lives in your Riding/Island but it appears uncanny how it doesn't hurt. BC Ferries is standardized all vessels to make simple for crewing training. I don’t know if census takes season residents or tourists because I think all the Southern Gulf Islands getting extreme busy in summer. I haven’t heard that Queen of Cumberland while not being using platform because I believe there will on certain trips. Gabriola Island and Quadra Island where asked what they prefer which in the end was two smaller boats instead of 100 car shuttle class vessel. BC Ferries is trying to do the best on what they have right now.
|
|
|
Post by explorer on May 11, 2022 13:20:29 GMT -8
The Audited Data is all there on the Website and if not you can try the BC Ferry Commission Website. The issue, they don't break out the data for Route 5 and 5a. If someone suggests an Island Class Vessel on 5a, it seems they are rebuffed for suggesting same. The problem, nobody is willing to backstop those anecdotes with data to prove their point. When you take into consideration the Service Level provided by Route 9, it becomes plainly clear that the SGI are well served this Fall once the Salish Class vessel is introduced.
That's why the subsidy costs are over the top when compared to Route 4 & 6 combined.
|
|
|
Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 11, 2022 14:27:30 GMT -8
explorer, what is your idea for route 5a then?
|
|
|
Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 16, 2022 13:34:43 GMT -8
Some things to consider when locating a ferry terminal 1) distance to destination 2) availability and cost of land 3) room for expansion 4) availability of land for holding area and parking, how level is it. 5) exposure to weather/wave/tide 6) sea bottom conditions 7) will the location generate traffic 8) cost 9) pre privatization. What?
|
|
|
Post by explorer on May 17, 2022 11:01:21 GMT -8
explorer , what is your idea for route 5a then? 2018 Request to the BC Ferries Commissioner for Funding - 2019 thru 2023. Note - Current Commissioner (2021) is a Saturna Island Resident and formerly Leader of the SGI Ratepayers Association in 2015-16. Those efforts are coming to fruition for the SGI this year and the pending vessel upgrades. Population of the SGI as of the Spring of 2021 Census ~ 6100. Saturna Island ~ 465. 2.5 Route 5/5A 2.5.1. Overview
Route 5/5A is a multiport route connecting Swartz Bay with terminals on Pender Island, Saturna Island, Mayne Island, and Galiano Island using the Queen of Cumberland and Mayne Queen, respectively. BC Ferries is required under the Contract to provide at least 3,461 round trips on the combined route per annum. The distance of the route depends on the destination, but varies from 8 nautical miles between Swartz Bay and Pender Island to 16 nautical miles between Swartz Bay and Saturna Island. Likewise, crossing time depends on routing and is, for example, 40 minutes between Swartz Bay and Pender Island, and two hours from Swartz Bay to Galiano Island when there are two stops. The transit is within relatively sheltered waters, with the exception of the transit of Active Pass to Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), where tidal-induced currents can be quite strong. The Queen of Cumberland generally serves Route 5 and the Mayne Queen generally serves Route 5A. The traffic demand on Route 5A is generally less than on Route 5 due, in large part, to different vessel capacities and service schedules. British Columbia Ferry Services Inc. Redacted Version 15 Coastal Ferry Act Section 55 (2) Application: New Salish Class Vessel and Island Class Vessels November 5, 2018 The Route 5 schedule permits longer loading times, which allow for a larger vessel. Between fiscal 2015 and fiscal 2018, there has been a 9 percent growth 4 in total vehicles carried on Route5/5A. With this growth, on-time performance on Route 5/5A declined from 91.3 percent in fiscal 2015 to 83.7 percent in fiscal 2018, while overloaded sailings increased over the same period from 3.0 percent to 4.4 percent. Additional details about Route 5 are provided in Appendix C. 2.5.2. Public and Stakeholder Engagement
As described above, BC Ferries proposes to deploy a new Salish class vessel on Route 5, which would enable the redeployment of the Queen of Cumberland to Route 5A and the retirement of the Mayne Queen. BC Ferries selected a Salish class vessel for this route as its design is amenable to the route profile with its longer voyage lengths, and includes other benefits, including more customer amenities that are commensurate with the trip duration. This vessel would be the third Salish class vessel introduced into the Southern Gulf Islands, further increasing the potential for a consistent service experience to customers travelling to these islands. While the design of the vessel will replicate that of the three existing vessels in the class, some improvements that are being applied to the existing ships, such as galley ventilation and improved external door operation, will also be included in the new vessel for Route 5. In addition to addressing these matters, which were among those raised by the Southern Gulf Islands Ferry Advisory Committee, BC Ferries has engaged with the Committee throughout the Mayne Queen vessel replacement process to understand and consider their specific concerns and questions. With the design specifications for this class of vessels already confirmed, further public and stakeholder engagement will focus on familiarizing participants with the design and the attributes of the vessel. Engagement activities will also include community conversations regarding schedule changes related to the introduction of the new vessel and redeployment of the Queen of Cumberland. These efforts will include seeking community feedback on what schedules best meet the needs of the communities served by Route 5/5A. 2.5.3. Customer Feedback
Appendix E provides details regarding feedback received from customers about Route 5/5A. The appendix also includes the results of BC Ferries’ customer satisfaction tracking survey for that route. 4 British Columbia Ferry Services Inc. Redacted Version 16 Coastal Ferry Act Section 55 (2) Application: New Salish Class Vessel and Island Class Vessels November 5, 2018 10 percent growth if calculated on the basis of AEQs. Section 3 – Project Description3.1 Vessel ReplacementsAs described earlier, BC Ferries has two competitive procurement processes underway - one for the construction of the four Island class vessels and another for the construction of a Salish class vessel. These new vessels will enable the retirement of the Powell River Queen, Bowen Queen and Mayne Queen, all of which are near the end of their service lives and are scheduled for retirement in fiscal 2022. The delivery of the vessels would be the responsibility of the shipyards. The five new vessels would be expected to be delivered at least three months in advance of their in-service dates to enable crew training and other activities necessary to ensure their successful deployment. The target in-service dates for the five new vessels are set out below: Island class vessels: • Powell River Queen replacements (for service on Route 23) - Spring 2021; and • Bowen Queen replacements (for service on Route 19) – Winter 2021. Salish class vessel: • Mayne Queen replacement (for service on Route 5) – Fall 2021. The timeline for the Project is described more fully in section 6.2.3. and reflects the age and condition of the Powell River Queen, Bowen Queen and Mayne Queen and the need to retire and replace them expeditiously in order to minimize service disruptions and ensure continuity of service. 3.2 Fleet PlanningBC Ferries has a detailed and comprehensive long-range vessel planning process. It starts with a corporate Strategic Plan based on the Company’s vision of being trusted and valued, and its mission to connect communities and customers to people and places important in their lives. The Company’s Fleet Master Plan translates the broad direction of the Strategic Plan into specific strategies, policies, design directives, and tactics for the development of the fleet that will help the Company progress towards its strategic goals. As discussed above, BC Ferries will need to replace or life extend 14 vessels over the next 10 years. In support of this, the Fleet Master Plan’s strategic statement indicates that the fleet will transition from a fleet of many unique vessels to a fleet of vessels that have high physical and operational commonality. The number of unique vessels in the fleet will be minimized, and common operational and maintenance procedures will be used as far as practicable. Consistent with this, the design of the Salish class and Island class vessels currently do and will continue to emphasize safety, environmental stewardship, efficiency, standardization, and customer experience. The Company’s corporate strategic drivers provide a foundation for the objectives underlying the fleet renewal program: i. Operational Excellence o Achieve a high-quality customer experience while supporting fare affordability; o Achieve deployment flexibility within the service area; and o Promote interoperability within the fleet. ii. Financial Sustainability o Design vessels with the lowest practicable operating and life cycle cost through the optimization of fuel consumption and labour costs; o Assess program build opportunities for prudent and sustainable fleet investments; and o Achieve standardization across vessels, including components, procedures and equipment. iii. Employee Engagement o Ensure safe, efficient and productive vessel working conditions. iv. Environmental and Social Governance o Balance the needs of the service and the Company’s impact on the environment; and o Consider the differing needs of local communities. v. Innovation and Continuous Improvement o Optimize life cycle costs and seek improved operational efficiency; and o Build vessels for a long life to extract maximum value and flexibility. These objectives were fundamental to the approach proposed for the Island class vessels and Salish class vessels, and specifically for the replacements of the Powell River Queen, Bowen Queen and Mayne Queen. ********************************* The interesting bit, all the Data Collected for the submission in the Fall of 2018 is now stale dated since the release of 2021 Census released this Spring. The SGI population is up ~30%. No one saw that one coming. Most are forecasting a busy Summer on all the Inter Island Routes. It will be interesting see the results of June thru Sept for a Number of Routes BCF as labelled as hot spots. Breaking out the Data separately for Route 5 and 5A is the only way for those looking on from the outside, know how well the Routes are served. In a recent conversation with a Strategic Planner the Cumberland is planned for 85 Vehicles, ramps up and seldom to the limit 112 with ramps down due to overheights. Same for the Salish Class 80 - 85 on the main deck with total uplift of 138, that's in the 2018 Submission that's up on the BCF Website. That's where the above info comes from. Other Communities would die for that type of residual capacity. Let's not get into cost per capita for some Communities over others. It's jaw dropping. There's a reason the current Government is about to amend the "Coastal Ferries Act". To better serve the Patrons and Businesses that are dependant and smooth out the inequities.
|
|
|
Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 17, 2022 17:32:01 GMT -8
explorer , what is your idea for route 5a then? Breaking out the Data separately for Route 5 and 5A is the only way for those looking on from the outside, know how well the Routes are served. In a recent conversation with a Strategic Planner the Cumberland is planned for 85 Vehicles, ramps up and seldom to the limit 112 with ramps down due to overheights. Same for the Salish Class 80 - 85 on the main deck with total uplift of 138, that's in the 2018 Submission that's up on the BCF Website. That's where the above info comes from. Other Communities would die for that type of residual capacity. Let's not get into cost per capita for some Communities over others. It's jaw dropping. There's a reason the current Government is about to amend the "Coastal Ferries Act". To better serve the Patrons and Businesses that are dependant and smooth out the inequities. I still don’t understand your point or your plan? I am going to complete disagree with you because now and 4 to 8 years in further more communities will be getting Island Class vessels which will increase capacity on all routes. 1. Texada Island went from 38 vehicles to 47 vehicles per sailing which is an increase by 20% per sailing. 2. Alert Bay and Sointula went from 26 vehicles to 47 which is a by 45% per sailing. 3. Quadra Island went from 61 vehicles per hour to 94 vehicles per hour which is a buy 37% per hour. 4. Gabriola Island went from 63 vehicles per hour to 94 vehicles per hour which is a by 33% per hour. 5. Hornby Island will go to 21 vehicles per sailing to 47 vehicles per sailing which is a by 55%. 7. Baynes Sound Connector will be lengthened according to BC Ferries will an Island Class goes on Hornby Island. 8. Cortes Island will go to 26 vehicles to 47 which is a by 45% per sailing. 9. Route 6 will probably go to Island Class which go to 63 vehicles per hour to 94 vehicles per hour which is a by 33% per hour.. 10. Thetis and Penelakut will go to 26 vehicles to 47 which is a by 45% per sailing. All these vessels will be interchangeable with each other so. Queen of Capilano, Queen of Cumberland and Skeena Queen will probably get replacement with 120 to 130 vessels which will be interchangeable with each other too. I doubt that Provincial Government will change BC Ferries plan because every vessel in capacity range will be interchangeable which is easier for crew, passengers, routes needs since the vessels carry the same of each.
|
|
|
Post by explorer on May 18, 2022 5:57:53 GMT -8
"I am going to complete disagree with you because now and 4 to 8 years in further more communities will be getting Island Class vessels which will increase capacity on all routes."
By all means you can completely disagree but try to explain your position to the 2100 Patrons (to date) who are Petitioning Minister Rob Fleming for a proper service on Routes 4 & 6 because BCF can't come to it. Bearing in mind that SSI has the largest community population wise out there, at almost 12,000 Residents. Route 6 hasn't been neglected over the years, some suggest its been completely abandoned.
You either have suitable Parking Containment Areas (and wait it out) or Frequent Ferry Service. We don't have either at all 3 Terminals Crofton, Vesuvius Bay & Fulford Harbour. This didn't happen overnight, it's been building for two decades with no preplanning. Look only to the Strategic Planner who suggested in 2003 that Route 6 would need a Vessel of 110 - 118 AEQ by 2013. In the Spring of 2019 BCF introduced the MV Quinitsa 44 AEQ. The Community suggested it was an egregious mistake for Peak Demand Summer Traffic. Within two weeks they demonstrated it wasn't a serious mistake but an unmitigated disaster. So they fobbed off the 61 AEQ Relic. Route 6 is where BCF Management sends Vessels to Die! You just made that point with the suggestion of the Mayne Queen.
That trend continues with disregards to Public Safety. It continues unabated by BCF - Traffic Gridlock, One Traffic Gauntlets using our Roadways as parking lots at all 3 Ferry Terminal Communities.
Salt Springers are Fed Up! We have two of the least subsidized routes in the entire network, with pathetic Peak Demand Service.
Route 6 - line up 1 Hr 15 min prior to in Peak Demand Times for a 20 to 25 min crossing. With the chance of a Sailing Wait. Seriously? Monday's and Thursday's being the Classic Nightmare on Chaplin Street (Crofton) for years.
|
|