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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jan 1, 2008 21:42:38 GMT -8
Seattle to Kirkland? Where has this been?
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Post by BreannaF on Jan 2, 2008 1:40:35 GMT -8
Now I was wondering about the potential demonstration route between Kirkland and Seattle. What kind of vessel are they considering, especially if it was one that could go through Montlake Cut, so it could dock in South Lake Union, connecting with the new streetcar. Itinerary #1 (From Metro Transit website): Walk SE from KIRKLAND TRANSIT CENTER to 3rd St & Kirkland TC - BAY 3 Depart At 08:08 AM On Route MT 255 Downtown Seattle Arrive Westlake Sta AcRd & Tunnel Station-BAY D At 08:40 AM Walk 0.1 mile NW to 5TH AVE & STEWART ST OK, I figure that to make sense, a ferry from Kirkland to Downtown Seattle would need to get me from home to work at least as quickly, give or take, as the bus currently serving the route. Even at the height of rush hour, this looks like about 30-40 minutes. I may need to figure this out, but I don't think that a boat going 20 knots or so is going to make it that distance, even before we figure in the time to get from somewhere on Lake Union to Downtown. I love alternative forms of transit. I even live in a city that uses a ski lift as a form of transit. But it's gotta make sense if you're gonna do it. The West Seattle water Taxi actually sort of makes sense. I have my doubts on this one. But I hope I'm wrong.
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Post by SS Shasta on Jan 2, 2008 8:19:52 GMT -8
Seattle to Kirkland? Where has this been? It's just too bad they can't bring back MV Leschi for the service. They could use MV Skansonia for back up!!
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 2, 2008 8:21:21 GMT -8
You'd have to find all the bits first. Last I saw, the hull had broken in half the long way... the horn went for $400 or so on eBay several years ago (I got out at $150).
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
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Post by FNS on Jan 2, 2008 8:45:51 GMT -8
Whenever they get the light rail station done at Husky Stadium, a foot ferry terminal should be considered at this location. A passenger ferry could be running between Kirkland and Husky Stadium and the folks could transfer to the trains to Seattle. Good way to get to Husky football games, as long as there are high capacity buses serving a new Kirkland waterfront transit center (if one could be located). As for Husky Station, buses could run a circulator around the campus and surface street routes run routes in all directions (as they currently do).
A speed limit of about six knots extends from the Montlake Cut to Shilshole. A fast ferry would still take a long time to get to Seattle with this limit.
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Post by chokai on Jan 2, 2008 14:10:07 GMT -8
So I live in the Fremont area and spend a lot of time in the U-District and can say I'm a regular in-city busrider. I don't think there is a way you could have a route intended for downtown users terminate anywhere past say the area around Husky Stadium given the speed limits beyond that point.
There currently are only a few busroutes (43,44,48,25 plus one other I can't remember) going further into the city in any direction serving the Pacific/Montlake interchange. Only the 43 goes to downtown and is a slow local bus. Most are headed into campus or are outbound to the suburbs. I see this route as only being viable for people headed to the UW until either the light rail station is added, or there is a dedicated bus that meets the boat. Even with a bus what are you gonna do? Get on 520 and then I-5 southbound? Doesn't gain you much.
There is however one route that goes past the WAC I can see as being viable and that is a direct route to Fremont or Ballard where the terrible east/west transit times from I-5 come into play. There are a fair # of techies that commute to Fremont for Getty/Adobe etc... from the Eastside.
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Post by EGfleet on Jan 2, 2008 15:19:22 GMT -8
You'd have to find all the bits first. Last I saw, the hull had broken in half the long way... the horn went for $400 or so on eBay several years ago (I got out at $150). Oh no, the hull, such as it is, is still basically intact. Everything else has completely collapsed and half sunk. I have a photo somewhere of her remains... This was as of 1993. I can't imagine things have improved in 15 years.
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Post by BreannaF on Jan 3, 2008 4:11:00 GMT -8
Whenever they get the light rail station done at Husky Stadium, a foot ferry terminal should be considered at this location. A passenger ferry could be running between Kirkland and Husky Stadium and the folks could transfer to the trains to Seattle. Good way to get to Husky football games, as long as there are high capacity buses serving a new Kirkland waterfront transit center (if one could be located). As for Husky Station, buses could run a circulator around the campus and surface street routes run routes in all directions (as they currently do). A speed limit of about six knots extends from the Montlake Cut to Shilshole. A fast ferry would still take a long time to get to Seattle with this limit. Yeah, Sound Transit finally getting the light rail up and running.... I'll be at the grand opening -- just as soon as my grandkids pick me up from the senior citizen center for the event.... ;D On the other hand, I did hear something in passing on TV a while back (maybe about the time that the Seattle Streetcar was opening) about the possibility of the UW being convinced to move the Museum of History & Industry from it's current location east of Montlake Blvd between the Cut and 520 to a Lake Union location near a streetcar stop. That was, I think I heard, to open up space for highways, byways, transit, and whatnot. If that's true, then that might be a good shot for where to put the Seattle end of such a ferry route. (A route that would likely be met by an express bus to downtown, or a train, not the route 43. ) Because, you know, a new 6-lane 520 bridge will fill up with cars and have it's first traffic jam on it's first day of service.......
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 3, 2008 6:27:07 GMT -8
MOHAI's move is a done deal AFAIK. I do believe they're working on moving to the old Navy Reserve building; Evergreenfleet would have more on this as he manages to retain more detail on stuff like that.
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Post by hergfest on Jan 3, 2008 13:27:17 GMT -8
From what I have heard, WSDOT is of the opinion that if they expand 520 beyond six lanes it will just bottleneck at I-5. But the benefit of a six lane 520 would be a carpool lane from Redmond all the way to I-5 in Seattle. This would also eliminate the carpool lane merge before you hit the bridge going into Seattle. I think I will be an old man before we see a new 520 bridge, there are just too many other projects that need money.
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Post by BreannaF on Mar 30, 2008 2:52:09 GMT -8
I found this article in the Whidbey Examiner online. I had never even considered that there might be a possibility of that much demand from Camano Island to Whidbey Island. Seems easy enough to drive around, unless the growth in the area is really that great over the last few years. Anybody else heard about this, or have a comment? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.whidbeyexaminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=1144&TM=23958.85 Camano ferry idea floatedBy Justin Burnett Examiner Staff Writer Friday, March 07, 2008 The idea of establishing a passenger ferry between Whidbey and Camano islands is afloat again, and this time the proposal may include a connection to Everett. Coupeville Mayor Nancy Conard, the Port of Coupeville commissioners and Front Street merchants met with Victoria Express President Jack Harman Feb. 28 to talk about the idea. Victoria Express currently operates a private passenger ferry between Anacortes, Friday Harbor and Victoria, British Columbia. Harman could not be reached at press time. Port of Coupeville Director Jim Patton, who also attended the meeting, said no proposals were made at the meeting and that it was just a chance for everyone to talk about the possibilities of a passenger ferry operating from Coupeville Wharf. Although no concrete proposal was made, the attendees discussed a variety of possibilities. One idea is to have a passenger ferry that would bring people to Coupeville from as far away as Everett. Another idea discussed the merits of a Whidbey-Camano only ferry. Front Street merchant and Kapaw's Iskreme owner Paul Whelan, who also attended the meeting, said both ideas could provide an economic boost for Central Whidbey. He said an Everett ferry might draw tourists who want to enjoy the scenery without waiting in a ferry line with their cars. And a private company would be more likely to invest money in promoting the service, which would in turn promote the island. Whelan said a direct link to Camano Island also has tourism potential, and could provide a shortcut for Island County employees needing to travel back and forth between the two islands. He said his ice cream shop benefits from the additional foot traffic generated by Camano attorneys who travel to Coupeville in their own boats. "They do their stuff at the courthouse, but then they stop at the ice cream shop and we make a sale," Whelan said. Island County Commissioner John Dean, who was not at the meeting, said he also thought a ferry service between Camano and Whidbey would be highly utilized by residents of both islands. "It would be a huge punch to the tourism economy of both islands," Dean said. It's not the first time an inter-island ferry service has been proposed. One of the most recent proposals came three years ago, when Whidbey SeaTac Shuttle of Oak Harbor proposed a ferry connection. The idea went so far that both the county and port commissioners endorsed it. The proposal fell apart because there was no pier access available on Camano Island appropriate to accommodate a ferry. "It was unfortunate, because the pieces were just falling into place," Patton said. But Dean said two state parks, Camano Island State Park and Cama Beach State Park, might be able to provide pier access. Getting the ferry back and forth between the islands is only one part of the equation. Another problem is a lack of available parking for people who want to use the ferry. "My opinion is that we weren't ready to have this conversation," Port of Coupeville Commissioner Marshall Bronson said. Another hurdle is that Victoria Express is a private company, and any service they provide must be profitable. Bronson said he thinks the demand for ferry service wouldn't be strong enough to keep ticket prices within reach of people who may want to use it. However, Bronson said he believes establishing ferry service is a good idea. "Eventually this will happen," Bronson said. "But it's not a reality at the moment because we don't have the population base to make it work."
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Post by Barnacle on Mar 30, 2008 8:11:14 GMT -8
A Camano-Whidbey ferry! Oooh! ...Waitaminute... a ferry from nowhere, to nowhere, and making you leave your car behind when you need it to get anywhere on those islands.
Pass.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
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Post by FNS on Mar 30, 2008 18:28:25 GMT -8
A Camano-Whidbey passenger ferry is a great idea. Island Transit operates routes on both islands. If one is conceived, IT could restructure its Coupeville Transit Center and create a new one at Camano. The only way to get to Camano by foot is to take IT to a connection at Oak Harbor, then transfer to a route that goes to Mount Vernon, then a connecting IT bus to Stanwood, then a final connection to Camano.
Direct foot access is a good thing to have, especially for the Camano residents who have to go to Coupeville for county business.
Island Transit is the one that should operate this ferry.
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Post by Barnacle on Mar 30, 2008 19:02:22 GMT -8
A Camano-Whidbey passenger ferry is a great idea. Island Transit operates routes on both islands. If one is conceived, IT could restructure its Coupeville Transit Center and create a new one at Camano. The only way to get to Camano by foot is to take IT to a connection at Oak Harbor, then transfer to a route that goes to Mount Vernon, then a connecting IT bus to Stanwood, then a final connection to Camano. Direct foot access is a good thing to have, especially for the Camano residents who have to go to Coupeville for county business. Island Transit is the one that should operate this ferry. How many residents are there on Camano that would use this service on a regular enough basis to justify operating it?
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Post by hergfest on Mar 30, 2008 21:16:11 GMT -8
Camano is growing, but not that much. Plus Camano isn't an island where you can just walk anywhere.
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Post by Barnacle on Mar 31, 2008 6:56:34 GMT -8
Camano is growing, but not that much. Plus Camano isn't an island where you can just walk anywhere. Not only is Camano not an island where you can just walk anywhere, Camano is an island where you just can't walk anywhere. The idea is apparently being pushed by people who either want a service to be provided for themselves particularly, or that think we're still in the 1890s and there are no roads from A to B.
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Post by chokai on Mar 31, 2008 8:42:14 GMT -8
Other than court related stuff @ Coupeville what other county services exist on Whidbey that don't have a corresponding service outlet on Camano?
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Post by BreannaF on May 7, 2008 1:23:49 GMT -8
No, they're not on eBay again. But it does look like they are trying a realistic option for selling them this time. =================================================== seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004397223_ferry07m.htmlBroker makes offer for Chinook and Snohomish ferriesBy Susan Gilmore Seattle Times staff reporter An unnamed boat broker has offered to purchase the Snohomish and the Chinook, two passenger ferries Washington State Ferries is selling as surplus. The state twice tried to sell the Chinook on eBay but got no bidders. The state listed the ferry with a $4.5 million starting bid. Ferries didn't say how much was offered for the two boats but said the buyer would get a discount by buying both boats together. The numbers might be released later this week. The state was hoping to get $9 million for both boats. Ferries director David Moseley said the ferry system has received authorization to negotiate with the broker. The Snohomish was to have been sold with the Chinook initially but has been used as a backup on the Port Townsend-Keystone route and more recently as a temporary ferry on the Bremerton-Seattle run. The state said it would work with private passenger-ferry operators to provide backup boats on the Port Townsend route as needed if the Snohomish is sold. The Chinook has been mothballed at the Eagle Harbor maintenance yard on Bainbridge Island for the past four years after the state pulled out of the Bremerton-Seattle route four years ago. The state decided to sell the boats to give money to King County, which is beginning its own passenger-ferry service between Seattle and Vashon Island. The Legislature said the county, or another government entity, could have the proceeds from the sale of the two idled ferries. The Port of Kingston also wants to operate a passenger route to Seattle and may seek the Chinook money.
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Post by Barnacle on May 7, 2008 6:26:39 GMT -8
Great. Unload the bloody things, regain some valued parking space at Eagle Harbor, and stop having to spend time and money maintaining them. Ditto the Steel-Electrics. If we can't run them, we don't have a lot of business owning them. I mean, look at the HIYU... even she gets out once in a while.
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Post by SS Shasta on May 7, 2008 10:10:18 GMT -8
What are they actually good for? I was surprised to learn that they have such a small passenger capacity and high operating costs. How many folks currently take the Vashon fast ferry each day? The Skagit has a higher capacity than these vessels.
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Post by SS San Mateo on May 7, 2008 10:21:06 GMT -8
I was surprised to learn that they have such a small passenger capacity and high operating costs. The small passenger capacity has to do with a lack of a security plan. Otherwise they would be able to carry more.
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Post by BreannaF on Jun 29, 2008 18:03:13 GMT -8
We have the beginning of a great thing to come! Or, just as likely, the beginning of a debacle that will set passenger ferry service for decades. The website only has some basic information for now: www.kingcountyferries.org/The announcement from Washington State Ferries is HERE. ======================================================== King County Ferry District assumes cost of Vashon Island passenger-only service July 1 Date: June 26, 2008 SEATTLE - Beginning July 1, the new King County Ferry District will assume the cost of providing passenger-only ferry service between downtown Seattle and Vashon Island. This is the first step towards the ferry district taking over full operation of this route. Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) Ferries Division will continue to operate the route until July 2009. “We are working closely with the King County Ferry District for a seamless transition,” said David Moseley, Chief of Ferries. “We do not expect any fare or schedule changes this year.” From July 2008 through June 2009, WSDOT will operate Seattle/Vashon Island passenger-only service at current levels and the service will be fully funded by the King County Ferry District. The ferry district will assume operation of the route beginning July 1, 2009, using King County crews. The service will continue to operate out of Pier 50. The Metropolitan King County Council created the King County Ferry District in 2007 to expand waterborne transit options for county residents. In addition to the Seattle/Vashon Island passenger-only ferry, the district now oversees operation of the Elliott Bay Water Taxi which runs between West Seattle and Pier 55 in downtown Seattle. In 2003, the state Legislature authorized counties to create local ferry districts whose sole source of revenue is a property tax assessment. In 2006, the Legislature then voted to end state funding for passenger-only ferries on June 30, 2007. The Legislature agreed to extend the Vashon service if King County would assume financial responsibility for the Vashon passenger-only ferry by July 1, 2008 and assume full operation of the route by July 2009. For more information about the King County Ferry District, visit www.kingcountyferries.org. For complete schedule and fare information visit www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries. =========================================================== Initial website information, for posterity: Ferry District adopts work plan and funding for Vashon ferry, Water Taxi, and 5 demonstration routes across Lake Washington and Puget SoundNearly a century after a “Mosquito Fleet” of small boats linked the communities that ring Lake Washington and Puget Sound, the Board of the King County Ferry District on Nov. 13 adopted a 2008 work plan, budget, and funding for operation of Vashon passenger-only ferry service, year-round operation of the popular Water Taxi, and five demonstration routes crossing those same bodies of water. The state Legislature in 2003 authorized counties to create local ferry districts whose sole source of revenue is a property tax assessment. Eighteen speakers testified at a public hearing Nov. 8 in favor of the District’s funding plan, proposed by County Executive Ron Sims as a levy of 5.5 cents per thousand dollars of assessed valuation per year. The Ferry District Board adopted that plan, which will generate $18.3 million per year to fund: * Passenger-only ferry service linking downtown Seattle with Vashon Island. Washington State Ferries currently operates the Vashon passenger-only ferry, but the Legislature in 2006 voted to end state funding for passenger-only ferries on June 30, 2007. The Legislature agreed to extend the Vashon service if King County would assume financial responsibility for the Vashon ferry by July 1, 2008, and assume full operation of the route in July 2009. * Year-round operation of the Elliott Bay Water Taxi linking downtown and West Seattle, starting by 2010. * Five future demonstration routes linking Seattle with the local shoreline communities of Kirkland/Eastside, Kenmore/North Lake Washington, Shilshole/North Puget Sound, Renton/South Lake Washington, and Des Moines/South Puget Sound, with funding sufficient to turn successful demonstrations into permanent routes. All routes will be supported by shuttle services to deliver commuters to docks and connect them with park-and-ride lots and other modes of transportation. The Metropolitan King County Council created the King County Ferry District on April 30 to expand transportation options for county residents through provision of waterborne transit services. All 9 members of the County Council sit as the Ferry District Board.
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Post by BreannaF on Jul 30, 2008 3:16:34 GMT -8
Well. We hadn't heard much about the Snohomish and the Chinook lately. Apparently, they are not headed for the Caribbean Sea anytime soon. This short article is from Wednesday's Seattle Times: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trinidad passes on state's old ferriesThe government of Trinidad is no longer interested in purchasing the state's old passenger ferries. According to Washington State Ferries, the Snohomish and Chinook went through sea trials with an Australian surveyor representing Trinidad, but after seeing a report from the surveyor, the nation said it was no longer interested. The state twice tried to sell the two boats on eBay but got no bidders. The Washington Legislature ordered the boats be sold and the proceeds go to local governments, such as King County, which is trying to start passenger-ferry service. Ferry spokeswoman Marta Coursey said the state will now contact other marine brokers to try to sell the two boats.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Nov 7, 2008 22:29:50 GMT -8
Bay-Area Group Looking to Buy State's Fast Ferrieswww.kitsapsun.com/news/2008/nov/07/bay-area-group-looking-to-buy-states-fast/efriedrich@kitsapsun.com Originally published 06:03 p.m., November 7, 2008 Updated 06:03 p.m., November 7, 2008 Washington State Ferries could complete a sale of the fast ferries Chinook and Snohomish in the next few weeks. Golden Gate Ferries of the San Francisco Bay area is interested in buying both high-speed catamarans for between $4 million and $5 million, WSF spokeswoman Hadley Greene confirmed Friday. The agency wants the boats for its growing Larkspur-San Francisco route. The 350-passenger ferries had been assigned to the Bremerton-Seattle run until September 2003. A lawsuit by waterfront residents forced the 35-knot boats to slow down through Rich Passage, nullifying their 30-minute crossing time. Then, Initiative 695 cut into ferry funding and the state decided it couldn't continue to operate the highly subsidized boats. The Chinook, built in 1998 by Dakota Creek Industries in Anacortes, has been mothballed at Eagle Harbor on Bainbridge Island for four years. The Snohomish, which arrived in 1999, was used this year as an emergency backup on the Port Townsend-Keystone and Bremerton-Seattle routes. Legislators recently discussed keeping the boats as reserves because WSF has no spare ferries, but Golden Gate's offer was too attractive, said Rep. Christine Rolfes, D-Bainbridge Island. The state tried twice to auction the boats on eBay, hoping to get $9 million, without success. They cost $9.7 million and $9.8 million, respectively, when they were built. Golden Gate Ferry officials, who have money and no wake issues, will recommend to their board of directors in coming weeks that they make the deal, said spokeswoman Mary Currie. If the board agrees, the sales agreement can be signed. The 2007 Legislature directed Washington State Ferries to sell the fast ferries as soon as practical with the proceeds going to another government entity to operate passenger-only service. The Chinook and Snohomish money will go to King County Metro, which is taking over the state's Vashon Island-Seattle route. Golden Gate runs two fast ferries on the Larkspur route and two bigger, slower boats between Sausalito and San Francisco. "We have been challenged with the good news of having too many riders," Currie said. Whenever one of the fast ferries breaks down, a big one must replace it, changing the crossing time from a half-hour to 45 minutes, Currie said. Golden Gate got the Del Norte, a sister ship of the Chinook and Snohomish, from Dakota Creek Industries in 1998. It was expanded to carry 390 passengers. It was joined in 2001 by the 450-passenger Mendocino. The company has three 715-passenger monohulls, two that run from Sausalito and the third a backup. It plans to refurbish and expand the Chinook and Snohomish, possibly to 450 passengers, Currie said. That would take six to eight months — much quicker and less expensive than building new boats. "We'd love to have one today," Currie said. "We're definitely in need of one."
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Post by EGfleet on Nov 8, 2008 14:32:09 GMT -8
Looks like the CHINOOK and SNOHOMISH are going to appreciating hands, eager to use them. I imagine that their nameboards will come off and stay here as they'll get new names down there. Good luck, Anacortes duo! That frees up two very good names for the new 144-car ferries. CHETZEMOKA and SNOHOMISH for Mukilteo. CHINOOK for the San Juans. ENETAI for the Bremerton run. That's if minds are eventually changed and four are built after all. I've already cemented QUILLAYUTE and QUILCENE as my choices for the new 64-car Keystone ferries. You seem to have forgotten the first new 144 is going to Anacortes.
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