|
MV Hiyu
Feb 15, 2010 17:55:09 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Feb 15, 2010 17:55:09 GMT -8
Well, neglect takes its toll on vessels too, and sitting tied up didn't do it a lot of good either.
That having been said, she's obviously perfectly viable as she does in fact have a valid, current Certificate of Inspection. The last time I was aboard her she was looking pretty good, even if the restrooms are really tiny. Another thing that is for sure... WSF isn't showing any real sign of retiring the old girl.
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 15, 2010 19:04:49 GMT -8
Post by lifc on Feb 15, 2010 19:04:49 GMT -8
Considering the WSF did extensive renovations on the Steel Electrics in the 1980s when they were between 55 and 60 years old, and the Hiyu is 43, I wonder if the vessel is worthy of a reconfiguration. It could be lengthened, sponsoned out 3-5 feet to get six lanes, the houses raised, lengthened and combined to be like that of the SteilacoomII and the existing pilot house reinstalled on top of it all. It might also need a repowering. This might be a less expensive way of getting a decent sized spare boat. It however may not be worth the effort, if its hull is too deteriorated. Just an idea.
Jim
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 15, 2010 19:09:45 GMT -8
Post by whidbeyislandguy on Feb 15, 2010 19:09:45 GMT -8
Considering the WSF did extensive renovations on the Steel Electrics in the 1980s when they were between 55 and 60 years old, and the Hiyu is 43, I wonder if the vessel is worthy of a reconfiguration. It could be lengthened, sponsoned out 3-5 feet to get six lanes, the houses raised, lengthened and combined to be like that of the SteilacoomII and the existing pilot house reinstalled on top of it all. It might also need a repowering. This might be a less expensive way of getting a decent sized spare boat. It however may not be worth the effort, if its hull is too deteriorated. Just an idea. Jim That would NOT be worth it at all......... Many of the Laws and rules have changed since those days. Doing all that to the Hiyu would be like building new hulls for the Steel Electrics. Nice Idea for nostalgic reasons but, not practical or feasible..
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 16, 2010 0:23:04 GMT -8
Post by lifc on Feb 16, 2010 0:23:04 GMT -8
The requirements required for rebuilding are just things that have to be done in the process, there is nothing here that is too expensive or impossible, unless the hull is deteriorated. Thinning plating or corroded frames would be the killer. In reality, the Hiyu, in it's current form, is sort of worthless, it's not big enough, it's too slow, the cabins are weird- not being connected and if the CG laws are to be closely interpreted, would require two cabin watchers. If the State wasn't in a Ferry crisis, it would still be tied up or surplused. The vessel's configuration also makes it too expensive for a smaller entity to operate as it would require a larger crew then a properly laid-out boat.
My idea was to explore the idea or reconfiguring it into a more usable vessel, that's all.
Hmm, considering what is being built, re-hulling the Steel Electrics, might have not turned out to be a bad idea at all.
Jim
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 16, 2010 5:21:22 GMT -8
Post by EGfleet on Feb 16, 2010 5:21:22 GMT -8
The requirements required for rebuilding are just things that have to be done in the process, there is nothing here that is too expensive or impossible, unless the hull is deteriorated. Thinning plating or corroded frames would be the killer. In reality, the Hiyu, in it's current form, is sort of worthless, it's not big enough, it's too slow, the cabins are weird- not being connected and if the CG laws are to be closely interpreted, would require two cabin watchers. If the State wasn't in a Ferry crisis, it would still be tied up or surplused. The vessel's configuration also makes it too expensive for a smaller entity to operate as it would require a larger crew then a properly laid-out boat. My idea was to explore the idea or reconfiguring it into a more usable vessel, that's all. Hmm, considering what is being built, re-hulling the Steel Electrics, might have not turned out to be a bad idea at all. Jim The problem with re-hulling them was that they would have lost their grandfather status from the CG and been ineligible to work anywhere but Point Defiance. This is why the idea was dropped early on.
|
|
Jody
Chief Steward
Ferry Foamer
Posts: 152
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 16, 2010 8:03:44 GMT -8
Post by Jody on Feb 16, 2010 8:03:44 GMT -8
Doing all that to the Hiyu would be like building new hulls for the Steel Electrics. Nice Idea for nostalgic reasons but, not practical or feasible.. Seriously, is there any real nostalgia surrounding the Hiyu? Be honest now. I've yet to see anybody (on this board at least) wipe away a tear and wax nostalgic about how much better things were when the Hiyu was on the job full-time. Seems to me that she's made a career out of being undersized and underloved. As for the idea of sponsoning out the hull, building up the houses, etc., it seems like throwing good money after bad. That sort of work is bound to be extremely expensive, and the end result would be a mini-Island Sky that cost about as much as the well-pitched Stretch Steilacoom, if not more, and is still 40 years older. I may be way off base, but with the costs of engineering, federal compliance, certification, and the actual work being done, I think the days of it being more economical to undergo a heavy rebuild like this instead of building new are behind us. J
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 16, 2010 11:41:13 GMT -8
Post by whidbeyislandguy on Feb 16, 2010 11:41:13 GMT -8
Doing all that to the Hiyu would be like building new hulls for the Steel Electrics. Nice Idea for nostalgic reasons but, not practical or feasible.. Seriously, is there any real nostalgia surrounding the Hiyu? Be honest now. I've yet to see anybody (on this board at least) wipe away a tear and wax nostalgic about how much better things were when the Hiyu was on the job full-time. Seems to me that she's made a career out of being undersized and underloved. As for the idea of sponsoning out the hull, building up the houses, etc., it seems like throwing good money after bad. That sort of work is bound to be extremely expensive, and the end result would be a mini-Island Sky that cost about as much as the well-pitched Stretch Steilacoom, if not more, and is still 40 years older. I may be way off base, but with the costs of engineering, federal compliance, certification, and the actual work being done, I think the days of it being more economical to undergo a heavy rebuild like this instead of building new are behind us. J Thank you Jody you see the point! ;D
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 16, 2010 15:39:01 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Feb 16, 2010 15:39:01 GMT -8
I concur... dumping that kind of money into the Hiyu would be so far over the Practicality Event Horizon that even WSF isn't considering it. The boat, as correctly pointed out, doesn't have anywhere near the nostalgia going that the Steel-Electrics had (never mind that all the "old-fashioned oak and brass" in the cabins was added in the 1980s and nobody seems to remember the leaky plain-Jane cabins, but I digress). The only place you might have found nostalgia was on the Point Defiance run, and that quickly evaporated when she turned up there like an ex-girlfriend/boyfriend, hoping to rekindle an old flame. Okay, and maybe one captain in the San Juans, where the old girl still turns up to save the world, one car at a time.
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 16, 2010 20:15:02 GMT -8
Post by lifc on Feb 16, 2010 20:15:02 GMT -8
First, I have no nostalgia for the Hiyu, it looks like a turkey to me that time has bypassed. I was wondering out loud if it might be an economical way to get something that might do a better job than it does now, you may be right, it might be impractical. As far as for re-hulling the Steel's, of course they would have to have been brought up to current standards. To me their propulsion systems were superior to what we are getting now. My whole problem is that is coming down the pike appears to be inadequate in both quantity and capacity. I do not see the political will to do anything but patch-up with the customers not being properly served. All I wanted to know was what shape is it really in? I do agree that the enhanced PC platform is a far better deal, but no one seems to be noticing that either. My opinion is that the whole system needs to be re-invented.
Jim
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 17, 2010 5:13:49 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Feb 17, 2010 5:13:49 GMT -8
The whole system does not need to be reinvented, just the political system that is running it. The system was a more successful operation once upon a time.
But be careful what you wish for... a retired ferryboater friend of mine was telling me yesterday of a summer where someone got the bright idea to outsource the schedule writing. (It was 1977 from what I can figure.) They sent it to Chicago and got back a beautiful schedule, with a few flaws... it seems that nobody told the folks in Chicago how long it took to offload and load boats.
They had a Super-class executing a 15-minute unload/load in Friday Harbor. For a frame of reference, it takes 21 minutes to unload a full Super in Friday Harbor.
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 17, 2010 10:14:17 GMT -8
Post by lifc on Feb 17, 2010 10:14:17 GMT -8
Well at least the vessel procurement sysytem needs to be re-invented. The politicians don't seem to get it, you just can't keep throwing money at a problem that needs to be fixed, the money has run out. One has to think about what is happening and do things that make sense, I do not think there is much sense out there right now. As for your printing example, I doubt if the printing company was at fault, my finger would be pointed at whoever gave them the information.
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 17, 2010 13:32:09 GMT -8
Post by EGfleet on Feb 17, 2010 13:32:09 GMT -8
Well at least the vessel procurement sysytem needs to be re-invented. The politicians don't seem to get it, you just can't keep throwing money at a problem that needs to be fixed, the money has run out. One has to think about what is happening and do things that make sense, I do not think there is much sense out there right now. As for your printing example, I doubt if the printing company was at fault, my finger would be pointed at whoever gave them the information. You didn't read that post carefully. The company wasn't in charge of printing the schedule, they were in charge of drawing it up. And that was where the mistake was made--they didn't allow for the time it takes to loading/unloading a vessel. They must have thought you can load and unload a ferry like you can a bus. As Barnacle pointed out, it takes 21 minutes to unload a full Super in Friday Harbor. The problem is they haven't been throwing money at it. We have the finalized plans for the boats, the contract has been awarded...and the legislature hasn't kicked down with any money to build them. They haven't being putting money into the ferry system for years--and haven't since the dedicated funding source dried up over a decade ago when license tabs went to $30.00. Those funds were never replaced, and they've been cobbling together budgets ever since.
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Feb 17, 2010 13:39:55 GMT -8
Post by whidbeyislandguy on Feb 17, 2010 13:39:55 GMT -8
Well at least the vessel procurement sysytem needs to be re-invented. The politicians don't seem to get it, you just can't keep throwing money at a problem that needs to be fixed, the money has run out. One has to think about what is happening and do things that make sense, I do not think there is much sense out there right now. As for your printing example, I doubt if the printing company was at fault, my finger would be pointed at whoever gave them the information. You didn't read that post carefully. The company wasn't in charge of printing the schedule, they were in charge of drawing it up. And that was where the mistake was made--they didn't allow for the time it takes to loading/unloading a vessel. They must have thought you can load and unload a ferry like you can a bus. As Barnacle pointed out, it takes 21 minutes to unload a full Super in Friday Harbor. The problem is they haven't been throwing money at it. We have the finalized plans for the boats, the contract has been awarded...and the legislature hasn't kicked down with any money to build them. They haven't being putting money into the ferry system for years--and haven't since the dedicated funding source dried up over a decade ago when license tabs went to $30.00. Those funds were never replaced, and they've been cobbling together budgets ever since. Exactly EGF ! Washington State ferries hasn't been lucky enough to be throwing money away for years, they haven't had any money to work with. The whole system does NOT need to be re-invented, it needs full funding.. I mean how long can you keep you personal finances together and not lose your house your car and have money for gas and everything else if you were to lose %45 of your income?
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
May 5, 2010 20:07:06 GMT -8
Post by SS San Mateo on May 5, 2010 20:07:06 GMT -8
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
MV Hiyu
May 5, 2010 20:36:43 GMT -8
Post by FNS on May 5, 2010 20:36:43 GMT -8
This is interesting news. I just wonder how many people would be thinking about using this as a bypass route in getting to Tsawwassen? That would be the case unless Whatcom County ferry operations has its ideas of a car reservation system with Point Roberts residents getting priority preference both going to and coming from. No standbys would ever be allowed on this run. And, to handle the guests of Point Roberts residents is an issue, too.
It would be an interesting school bus ride for Point Roberts kids going to and from school in the Bellingham area.
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
MV Hiyu
May 5, 2010 21:58:09 GMT -8
Post by lifc on May 5, 2010 21:58:09 GMT -8
The Blaine to Point Roberts Ferry has been kicked around for years with no real serious consideration. The County hopes the Lummi Island Ferry, will somehow go away, so I doubt if they willingly or even unwillingly would take on another. The Hiyu was too small for the Blaine-PR run then, more inadequate now. The School kids would still go to Blaine Middle and High School as they do now. The idea is still a topic, on low heat, in the area.
The County Public Works Department did look at it for Lummi Island, however it was decided that it drew too much water, they would have to dredge- didn't want to, and a vocal minority of Islanders didn't like the idea that it was bigger than the Whatcom Chief. Their complaint was that fully loaded Semi Trucks could be brought on easily and that this would spur Island population growth. Due to this, the County did the easy thing and passed on it.
Later the county got an 8 million (over 20 year) grant from the State and had a new 35 car Ferry designed. The design, in my opinion was rather inelegant, had the pilot house and passengers spaces on one side, a flat bottom to again avoid dredging, and Voght Schneider drive cyclodial propulsion. The crew and the Islanders were divided on the appropriateness of the design. I and others, though it was too small, and I personally favored something more akin to the Christine Anderson. Many of the same people, along with new recruits, who opposed the Hiyu came forward in opposition to the new boat and when a lone Marine Surveyor testified before the County Council that the Whatcom Chief was in great shape, would last 20 more years with normal maintenance, the Council voted to drop the new acquisition and lost the grant. Since then it has come to light the old boat is starting to experience metal fatigue, thinning decks, a corroded house and the lanes do not meet ADA requirements. Now with the Lummi Tribe demanding huge landing fees to dock on the mainland side, all I can say is, what a mess.
Jim
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
MV Hiyu
May 5, 2010 23:38:34 GMT -8
Post by FNS on May 5, 2010 23:38:34 GMT -8
Hmm...
Voith Schneider Propellers for that new one. This propulsion has been used for quite awhile aboard four of the ferries that serve Staten Island. The 6000 passenger BARBERI and NEWHOUSE have them as well as the 1200 passenger "night owls" AUSTEN and NOBLE. When I took my rides aboard the BARBERI a little more than a decade ago, I felt some wobble to the ride with those egg beaters. You have to take tremendous care of those propellers so that those ferries can maintain as much of a decent and smooth ride for the passengers.
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
MV Hiyu
May 6, 2010 10:32:09 GMT -8
Post by lifc on May 6, 2010 10:32:09 GMT -8
That was one of my concerns with the "New" Ferry. I wondered how well these drives would hold up and initial investigation showed higher fuel consumption. Maybe I am just a retrograde type, like to keep it simple, to me propellors are well known quantities, work fine, less expensive and easy to repair. I didn't know the VS drives wobbled.
Jim
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
MV Hiyu
May 24, 2010 8:26:45 GMT -8
Post by lifc on May 24, 2010 8:26:45 GMT -8
Heard on the local radio this AM that " a 34 car Ferry is being assigned to the Inter-Island Route in the San Juans". I'm sure the Islanders are delighted.
Jim
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
May 24, 2010 8:52:05 GMT -8
Post by Kahloke on May 24, 2010 8:52:05 GMT -8
Heard on the local radio this AM that " a 34 car Ferry is being assigned to the Inter-Island Route in the San Juans". I'm sure the Islanders are delighted. Yeah - just in time for the holiday weekend, too It's not all bad, though. 3 Supers (Hyak, Kaleetan, & Elwha) are operating in the San Juans this week. And, on top of that, Elwha's back on the international run for the first time in, what, 3 years? So, I guess they got her re-certified after all.
|
|
Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
|
MV Hiyu
May 24, 2010 9:25:02 GMT -8
Post by Koastal Karl on May 24, 2010 9:25:02 GMT -8
I actually would prefer the Elwha on the Sidney run than the Chelan. Can you even go outside on the Chelan on the top deck??? The Supers seem to have more outside space!
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
May 24, 2010 10:03:33 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on May 24, 2010 10:03:33 GMT -8
I actually would prefer the Elwha on the Sidney run than the Chelan. Can you even go outside on the Chelan on the top deck??? The Supers seem to have more outside space! And a lot more empty space in the tunnel, too. The traffic on the Sidney run really doesn't justify the use of a Super-class vessel. The Texas deck is not accessible to the public on the Chelan, but then neither is the Texas deck on the Elwha. ;D It just happens that the Supers have one more passenger level than the Issaquah-class vessels.
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Oct 17, 2010 20:24:19 GMT -8
Post by bestill301 on Oct 17, 2010 20:24:19 GMT -8
Since the Kittitas is still out of service, the Hiuy was brought up to the Mukilteo-Clinton run to help ease the load.
Since it's rare to see the Hiyu up here, I went to the dock and took a few photos of it:
Per the WSF Ferry Alerts, the Evergreen State is coming to this route tomorrow morning for the Monday Morning Commute. I guess that puts the Hiyu up in the San Juans.
It's rare to see the Evergreen State at Mukilteo-Clinton, and I'll be riding it tomorrow, so I'll take some pics of it, too.
Brad/Clinton, WA.
============
moderator edit: - thanks for the photos Brad. our forum rules that you read show our photos size limits, and the 800px wide is the key limit. - your photos are approx 1,250 px wide, so I've edited your post to change them to URL links. - for your photos tomorrow, please resize to max 800px wide, before posting, and then check after posting to make sure that they are within the 800px parameter.
Thanks !
2nd moderator edit, after member changed photos back to oversized IMGs: - photos still too wide, so I've just deleted them. We take side-scrolling seriously here, because it is so darn annoying when viewing threads. - thanks for FerryNut's resizing of these photos.
|
|
|
MV Hiyu
Oct 17, 2010 20:40:31 GMT -8
Post by lmtengs on Oct 17, 2010 20:40:31 GMT -8
- your photos are approx 1,250 px wide, so I've edited your post to change them to URL links. 1,035 and 911 pixels wide, actually, just for the sake of accuracy.
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
MV Hiyu
Oct 17, 2010 20:52:23 GMT -8
Post by FNS on Oct 17, 2010 20:52:23 GMT -8
- your photos are approx 1,250 px wide, so I've edited your post to change them to URL links. 1,035 and 911 pixels wide, actually, just for the sake of accuracy. I have corrected the size of this author's photos to the 800 limitation, as I've done for a few others, as a courtesy. Beautiful photos, "bestill301"! Photo by bestill301. Reproduction without his consent is not permitted.Photo by bestill301. Reproduction without his consent is not permitted.
|
|