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Post by northwesterner on Sept 16, 2018 14:23:34 GMT -8
This was posted by King5 on youtube. Seems the incident was captured on video. S Even when I slow this down on youtube to see it more clearly, I'm not certain at which point of this rough landing the grounding occurred. They definitely came in sideways to the berth, and there was a hard hit on the port side against the big dolphin on that side. But where was the grounding?
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Post by maximase86 on Sept 16, 2018 19:13:11 GMT -8
If I were to guess. I wonder if it dragged the rudder as it was coming into the harbor. If you notice after that, the Port Townsend end was clearly only steering *correction* right afterwards.
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Post by northwesterner on Sept 16, 2018 20:20:30 GMT -8
If I were to guess. I wonder if it dragged the rudder as it was coming into the harbor. If you notice after that, the Port Townsend end was clearly only steering left afterwards. Ahhhh! I was assuming, that as per usual, it was the bow end rudder that ran aground. But with your perspective, watching the video again makes a lot more sense. We know the vessels need to come pretty much straight into the berth and that the beach is awfully close on that side. She comes in sideways, with her stern out towards the beach. You'll notice shortly after she hits the dolphin, hard, a crew member who was standing on the port side bridge wing comes running back to the center of the bridge. I bet his view was of the stern coming way too close the beach. If it was the stern rudder that was damaged, it would explain why they had such a hard time getting her into the slip.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Sept 16, 2018 21:39:08 GMT -8
If I were to guess. I wonder if it dragged the rudder as it was coming into the harbor. If you notice after that, the Port Townsend end was clearly only steering left afterwards. Ahhhh! I was assuming, that as per usual, it was the bow end rudder that ran aground. But with your perspective, watching the video again makes a lot more sense. We know the vessels need to come pretty much straight into the berth and that the beach is awfully close on that side. She comes in sideways, with her stern out towards the beach. You'll notice shortly after she hits the dolphin, hard, a crew member who was standing on the port side bridge wing comes running back to the center of the bridge. I bet his view was of the stern coming way too close the beach. If it was the stern rudder that was damaged, it would explain why they had such a hard time getting her into the slip. Might be fair to say that it's a testament to the seamanship, on an everyday, routine basis,of the officers and crew on this route that there aren't more incidents. This is such a marginal harbor for vessels of this size- I don't think BC Ferries has to deal with anything similar.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
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Post by FNS on Sept 17, 2018 10:26:53 GMT -8
Don't know if this would help. I would install more side dolphins in this harbor about the same distance apart as the existing ones. Mount these in every 150 to 200 foot increments until they are outside of the harbor. Should help guide these ferries into and out of this harbor better without the fear of grounding. Put radar reflectors on top of all of these as well.
Might eliminate the "jet blast" departures as well.
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Post by rusty on Sept 17, 2018 17:01:03 GMT -8
In the wind and tidal currents those dolphins would be a boat handeler's nightmare.
Keystone Harbor is how this mess started. WSDOT went to the State legislature and secured funding to replace the Steel Electrics. WSF then came up with a new plan: to move the landing to the other end of the spit; and build a one size boat, what is now the 144 car class ferries. State Senator Mary Margaret Haugen said no to the move.
WSF then proposed a major rebuild of Keystone Harbor, which included a rather massive extension of, an addition of, the(a) jetty. Being that Keystone is in the middle of a State park, in front of a wildlife refuge, and considered as a tribal fishing area, strong opposition stopped that plan. With the money earmarked to build replacement boats WSDOT signed a contract to start the 144 build.
Then, with the entire Steel Electric class in structural failure the State tied-up the entire class.
This crisis, the loss of the Port Townsend/Keystone ferry run, led to emergency funding to build boats that could replace the Steel Electrics. At that time, even though WSF had what was said to be the largest Naval Architecture firm on the west coast in house, there was no existing plan for such a boat. So a plan was purchased from Elliot Bay Design Group that was a modification of the M/V Island Home, a Woods Hole Ferry.
The outboard profile that shows the whole vessel reveals why the KtD's have such expensive soft groundings. There is no bottom rudder shoe, so the thing just hangs there, all force on grounding is on the top bearing assembly and it bends over. (The rudder flaps are an issue too, but they make those boats turn on a dime.)
Also, the purchased plan was for a fixed pitch propeller boat, aka The M/V Chetzemoka. The other two, the ones usable for Port Townsend/Coupeville run, were fitted with their "backward" controllable pitch propellers, designed for single-ended boats. That's why they almost come to a stop, to clutch in the propeller from feathering, before they proceed to the dock.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Sept 17, 2018 21:38:29 GMT -8
In the wind and tidal currents those dolphins would be a boat handeler's nightmare. Keystone Harbor is how this mess started. WSDOT went to the State legislature and secured funding to replace the Steel Electrics. WSF then came up with a new plan: to move the landing to the other end of the spit; and build a one size boat, what is now the 144 car class ferries. State Senator Mary Margaret Haugen said no to the move. WSF then proposed a major rebuild of Keystone Harbor, which included a rather massive extension of, an addition of, the(a) jetty. Being that Keystone is in the middle of a State park, in front of a wildlife refuge, and considered as a tribal fishing area, strong opposition stopped that plan. With the money earmarked to build replacement boats WSDOT signed a contract to start the 144 build. Then, with the entire Steel Electric class in structural failure the State tied-up the entire class. This crisis, the loss of the Port Townsend/Keystone ferry run, led to emergency funding to build boats that could replace the Steel Electrics. At that time, even though WSF had what was said to be the largest Naval Architecture firm on the west coast in house, there was no existing plan for such a boat. So a plan was purchased from Elliot Bay Design Group that was a modification of the M/V Island Home, a Woods Hole Ferry. The outboard profile that shows the whole vessel reveals why the KtD's have such expensive soft groundings. There is no bottom rudder shoe, so the thing just hangs there, all force on grounding is on the top bearing assembly and it bends over. (The rudder flaps are an issue too, but they make those boats turn on a dime.) Also, the purchased plan was for a fixed pitch propeller boat, aka The M/V Chetzemoka. The other two, the ones usable for Port Townsend/Coupeville run, were fitted with their "backward" controllable pitch propellers, designed for single-ended boats. That's why they almost come to a stop, to clutch in the propeller from feathering, before they proceed to the dock. Sometimes we laymen come up with ideas that seem sensible... but when they haven't actually been implemented, there's usually a good reason for it. Nice to have a mariner check in.
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Post by Barnacle on Sept 18, 2018 11:05:58 GMT -8
Don't know if this would help. I would install more side dolphins in this harbor about the same distance apart as the existing ones. Mount these in every 150 to 200 foot increments until they are outside of the harbor. Should help guide these ferries into and out of this harbor better without the fear of grounding. Put radar reflectors on top of all of these as well. Might eliminate the "jet blast" departures as well. I don't think it would help. The only grounding I can recall inside the harbor was after a power failure on the Klickitat. The "jet blast" departures are to get up speed so the ferry has a chance to defend itself in the extreme tidal conditions outside the harbor, where there would still be no dolphins.
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Post by Barnacle on Sept 18, 2018 11:10:16 GMT -8
This was posted by King5 on youtube. Seems the incident was captured on video. S Even when I slow this down on youtube to see it more clearly, I'm not certain at which point of this rough landing the grounding occurred. They definitely came in sideways to the berth, and there was a hard hit on the port side against the big dolphin on that side. But where was the grounding? The grounding likely occurred before the video started. The bow rudder appears to already be folded over in this video, which is why the vessel swings left every time the boat backs down.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Nov 30, 2018 17:11:42 GMT -8
Salish had another "bottoming out" in Coupeville Harbor Today.
"The Port Townsend/Coupeville ferry service has resumed service after it was suspended for several runs today.
This morning, the M/V Salish experienced steering issues at the Coupeville ferry dock, causing the cancellation of all runs starting with the 9:30 a.m. sailing from Port Townsend.
“It either bumped the bottom, or hit the breakwater due to steering issues,” said Ian Sterling, communications director at Washington State Ferries. “Whatever happened was not a violent impact, so the Coast Guard allowed the vessel to sail back to Port Townsend.”"
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Post by compdude787 on Dec 1, 2018 11:58:20 GMT -8
Oh man, I can't believe this happened again.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Feb 9, 2019 16:17:15 GMT -8
Per completed repairs, and the fact the Salish is now back in Port Townsend, she is expected to return to service Monday morning with the 0630 form Port Townsend!
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Post by PNW_ferrynerd on Feb 9, 2019 17:51:55 GMT -8
Per completed repairs, and the fact the Salish is now back in Port Townsend, she is expected to return to service Monday morning with the 0630 form Port Townsend! The Salish went through EDM-KIN Route today
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jun 27, 2019 7:32:52 GMT -8
Over the last few days, I've had the chance to ride the Salish up as the Anacortes #4 vessel for the first time. Seen everything from the boat arriving for the first time, to taking it to Anacortes and walking off the car deck! Enjoy the photo collection . The most interesting thing by far, was seeing the Salish operate with the #1 end at Friday Harbor, as the Chelan in the same weekend, operated Interisland with the #2 end at Friday Harbor. Who knows.
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Post by iceberg1 on Aug 27, 2019 14:45:36 GMT -8
Just a heads up for all Port Townsend ferryboat riders, Salish heads north to Friday Harbor at the start of the fall shoulder season so the Port Townsend - Coupeville route will be reduced to one boat service earlier than usual.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Aug 27, 2019 17:14:05 GMT -8
Just a heads up for all Port Townsend ferryboat riders, Salish heads north to Friday Harbor at the start of the fall shoulder season so the Port Townsend - Coupeville route will be reduced to one boat service earlier than usual. Is that confirmed, if so, by who? I have heard differently regarding that assignment (and it's not the Salish, from what I have heard).
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Post by iceberg1 on Aug 27, 2019 22:56:31 GMT -8
It's true. Saw the Maintenance Schedule that came out today. No Elwha, Chelan runs Sydney. Kitsap to Mukilteo for Tokitae, Sealth (along with Cathlamet and Issaquah) at the Triangle for Kittitas which is going to drydock, Tillikum to Eagle Harbor to change out her reduction gear bearings with ones taken out of the Klahowya and Salish to Friday Harbor for Tilly reducing PT to one boat service Sept 28 to Oct 13 (The end of two boat service for 2019). Being a 33 year WSF employee, I got my finger on the pulse in the happenings of the Green and White Fleet but will use the other WSF motto here, "Subject to Change without Notice"
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Post by Edmondsguy on Aug 28, 2019 10:42:25 GMT -8
It's true. Saw the Maintenance Schedule that came out today. No Elwha, Chelan runs Sydney. Kitsap to Mukilteo for Tokitae, Sealth (along with Cathlamet and Issaquah) at the Triangle for Kittitas which is going to drydock, Tillikum to Eagle Harbor to change out her reduction gear bearings with ones taken out of the Klahowya and Salish to Friday Harbor for Tilly reducing PT to one boat service Sept 28 to Oct 13 (The end of two boat service for 2019). Being a 33 year WSF employee, I got my finger on the pulse in the happenings of the Green and White Fleet but will use the other WSF motto here, "Subject to Change without Notice" Now days I am just along for the ride. I still say Yuck to this. However, I am not surprised at all.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Aug 28, 2019 12:59:40 GMT -8
It's true. Saw the Maintenance Schedule that came out today. No Elwha, Chelan runs Sydney. Kitsap to Mukilteo for Tokitae, Sealth (along with Cathlamet and Issaquah) at the Triangle for Kittitas which is going to drydock, Tillikum to Eagle Harbor to change out her reduction gear bearings with ones taken out of the Klahowya and Salish to Friday Harbor for Tilly reducing PT to one boat service Sept 28 to Oct 13 (The end of two boat service for 2019). Being a 33 year WSF employee, I got my finger on the pulse in the happenings of the Green and White Fleet but will use the other WSF motto here, "Subject to Change without Notice" Salish isn't actually heading up until after completing service on the 29th, so the official service start for them is actually the 30th, to clarify.
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Post by iceberg1 on Aug 28, 2019 13:28:59 GMT -8
Didn't know the exact timing date wise. Thanks Oly F. Sorry about the hassle for the inner island folks up north. Hope this is not the new normal at WSF?
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Aug 28, 2019 14:48:42 GMT -8
Didn't know the exact timing date wise. Thanks Oly F. Sorry about the hassle for the inner island folks up north. Hope this is not the new normal at WSF? Well, Salish twice, or a KDT at all anywhere else than Port Townsend and Point Defiance more than twice throughout the year is a bit of an oddity but so far the only other route to be saddled with the "special" ferries have been the interisland. I suppose a smaller boat is better than a limited schedule. Thanks for the info!
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Post by iceberg1 on Sept 11, 2019 15:20:11 GMT -8
Good news. Hot off the press. The Salish will now remain in Port Townsend to finish the 2 Boat schedule Sept 30 through October 13. Apparently the parts needed to repair Tillikum will not be in at Eagle Harbor in time so she will remain at Friday Harbor. This should make inter island and Coupeville ferry riders happy...for now!
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Post by iceberg1 on Nov 1, 2019 5:32:57 GMT -8
Salish heads to the Triangle to stand in for the Sealth, Nov 11th - 21st as the # 2 Boat. A KDT64 Class vessel has not operated there for years and does not work on the FVS route very well. Expect delays.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 7:16:26 GMT -8
My friend commutes on the Triangle route daily, he and many others will tell you having the Salish is better than having a two boat schedule like it was this past week. Delays and late sailings are a regular occurrence on this route even with the revised schedule which hasn't made much of a difference for on time performance. I was thinking one of the KDT's had been on that route within the past couple of years but I may be incorrect.
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Post by iceberg1 on Nov 2, 2019 6:50:52 GMT -8
The Salish has not operated at FVS in approx. 5 years. The last time she was there it led to frustrated passengers and crew due to the difficulty of turning cars around on the vessel and the 11 knot service speed causing huge delays. The WSF has placed an Oly Class boat a few times on the Triangle the past couple of years but no KDT. It would be easier to reconsider the problems with the two boat schedule currently and readjust it to work with 2 double decker Issaquah Class boats or come up with a temporary 3 boat schedule where the Salish just travels between Southworth - Vashon, Southworth - Fauntleroy or Vashon - Fauntleroy. Straight shots only for the KDT, eliminating the need to turn vehicles around on the car deck.
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