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Post by zman on Feb 13, 2007 9:07:20 GMT -8
WSF has the information about the 2007 fare increases out. They want to have a reservations system in effect for PT-K by Summer of '07. It says that it would be $10 extra for cars and $20 extra for larger vehicles to reserve. I think that is for each way... IF, and I emphasize the word IF, that does happen, it would seem fair for that $$$ to go specifically toward improvements at PT-K. wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/tariff/ |
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Post by SS Shasta on Feb 13, 2007 14:46:44 GMT -8
As said before, I think the $10 reservation idea is stupid and has potential to create increased public relations problems for WSF. Would such a scheme include the increased running time for the 2nd vessel on the route from 8hrs to 12 or 16hrs and add a run or two later in the evening? If it did, that might be some justification. I can see many folks waiting in long holding lines for hours and becoming angry when they see vehicles (with reservations) crowding in front of them. I only use the route about once a year at the most and then usually as a walk on; if I was a regular driver using the route, I would certainly be vocal with this nonsense with the Legislature. It is hard to realize that high paid managers at WSF can think of something so stupid.  |
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 13, 2007 17:39:28 GMT -8
Once again, you do realize they got the idea from other ferry systems, right? Like BC Ferries... and come to think of it, doesn't AMHS offer the option?
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Feb 13, 2007 18:05:04 GMT -8
WSF should stop selling frequent user books for commuters and just have commuters pay full fare to get more revenue. If you are willing to work over in Seattle, you should be willing to spend money on the commute. Time to spark a debate.
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 13, 2007 20:32:48 GMT -8
Would any commuters care to weigh in on that? San Mateo?  |
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Post by old_wsf_fan on Feb 14, 2007 21:43:30 GMT -8
I think that this reservation idea is a big mistake. How are they going to manage this with a facility too small to handle the traffic on this route in the summer? Where are you going to put the reserved cars waiting for the ferry? In the remote holding lot and march all those cars onto an empty ferry while everybody else watches? I don't get the thought process. I agree with SS Shasta. I think a return of expanded 2 boat service and a longer service day for the primary vessel is the way to go until such a time as the problems with this route and terminals are resolved. There are no easy answers for this problem but just a pure money grab by the State just reinforces low public opinion of current policies.  |
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Post by zman on Feb 15, 2007 10:50:08 GMT -8
I do think that it would be rather challenging to have a reservations system with the limited space at the docks.
I have a feeling that if WSF stopped selling the frequent user books, there would be a slight decrease in vehicle traffic for the Fauntleroy-Southworth and the Seattle-Bremerton routes. The people at Vashon would have no choice, and for anywhere north of Bainbridge, people would most likely keep driving on the boats.
It would be interesting to see the traffic reports for the routes that show how many vehicles use tickets vs. paying for the single trip.
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Post by old_wsf_fan on Sept 19, 2007 19:04:33 GMT -8
I have a question that hopefully can be answered.
Since the Illahee is back in service, why did WSF elect not to restore two boat service to a route that obviously continues to need two boat service well into October? It would only make sense to have two boat service so they could eliminate the late night runs on Friday and Sunday nights.
Do they [WSF] really expect the other routes to cover the loss of the extra vessel?
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Post by SS San Mateo on Sept 19, 2007 19:15:42 GMT -8
2 possible reasons:
(1) Maintenance is needed on the Evergreen State (possibly prior to going over to Vashon to replace the Klahowya when she goes into drydock).
(2) The Coast Guard won't allow the Illahee on the Pt. Townsend route for one reason or another.
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Post by EGfleet on Sept 20, 2007 8:05:15 GMT -8
2 possible reasons: (1) Maintenance is needed on the Evergreen State (possibly prior to going over to Vashon to replace the Klahowya when she goes into drydock). (2) The Coast Guard won't allow the Illahee on the Pt. Townsend route for one reason or another. I believe you're correct on both counts. THe Klahowya is already a month late and the CG doesn't like the Illahee on the run...it is what sent her up to islands in the first place. I'm wondering how traffic is going to be with the Oyster Run this weekend... Ferry Problems Put Port Townsend Riders in a PinchBy Ed Friedrich (Kitsapsun) Wednesday, September 19, 2007 PORT TOWNSEND The future of the Port Townsend-Keystone ferry has gained greater immediacy with the recent afflictions of the four boats small enough to enter Keystone Harbor. For the past two weeks, only one of the historic quartet, the Klickitat, had been operational. On Tuesday, the Illahee returned from the shipyard but was assigned to the San Juan Islands instead of the Port Townsend run. But at least it's available as a backup. Normally the route has two boats running until early in October. The lone ferry has created daily waits of 90 minutes during weekdays and much longer on weekends. That will be the topic of Washington State Ferries quarterly meeting with North Sound communities Thursday night at Fort Worden, 200 Battery Way, Company C, in Port Townsend, said ferries spokeswoman Marta Coursey. The event begins at 6:30. "That will be the first and foremost thing we'll talk about," she said. Other topics include highlights of a origin-destination study and relocating the Port Townsend remote-holding area. There are plans to develop the existing one. The other two Steel-Electric class ferries are at the Eagle Harbor maintenance facility on Bainbridge Island. The Quinault is awaiting dry dock space at Todd Shipyard to complete repairs to two cracked stern tubes. The Nisqually, which had been in semi-retirement until forced into duty last spring, is out of service indefinitely awaiting the outcome of a hull survey, Coursey said. At 2 p.m. Wednesday, the dock was full of vehicles waiting to board the 2:15 p.m. sailing. A couple rows wouldn't make it onto the 64-car ferry, nor would those stretched down the highway toward Bayview Restaurant. They'd have to wait until the boat returned from Whidbey Island at 3:45. Pete Toyne of Port Townsend, a musician with the group "Early Swing Now," was bound for a gig at Langley. He would've been late had his boss not warned him about the wait. "I figured as late as yesterday I'd just get here at 3 o'clock," he said of boarding the 3:45 boat. "I had to call the rest of the band and tell them to get their butts down here. "My gripes are probably the same as everybody else's. We don't have a ferry to handle the traffic, pure and simple. It's bad enough with two small ferries, let alone one." Toyne added that Port Townsend has done a wonderful job of attracting tourists, but it hasn't succeeded in accommodating them. He expects overloads on busy weekends, "but this is Wednesday, for God's sake, in the middle of September, and the kids are back at school." Lou Faulkner owns a graphic design and printing business in downtown Port Townsend and has clients on the other side. He arrived at 1:45 thinking that'd be plenty of time to catch the 2:15 boat. He didn't. "It's just about impossible for me to schedule anything because I don't know what's going on down here," he said. "I just have to tell (clients) I'll call them if I get to your island and we'll go from there. It's an all-day thing to do something that generally takes three hours." The ferry system had been planning on relocating the Whidbey Island terminal, enlarging the one at Port Townsend and using one or more of the new 100-car boats it plans to build on the route. The communities, however, didn't want bigger terminals so they had to go back to the drawing board. A group of ferry officials and representatives from Port Townsend and Whidbey Island have been meeting monthly to talk about replacement boats for the Steel Electrics, said WSF spokeswoman Hadley Greene. After that's accomplished, they'll tackle terminals. |
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Post by SS Shasta on Sept 21, 2007 10:56:18 GMT -8
According to recent information from WSF, MV Illahee has returned to her regular route and MV Evergreen State is on "stand-by" at Eagle Harbor. With long lines at Port Townsend/Keystone and a special event at Anacortes, logic would tell me that MV Evergreen State should have remained in the Islands and MV Illahee assigned as the 2nd vessel on the Port Townsend/Keystone route.
The very low car deck clearance of MV Illahee is a handicap, but placing her on the Port Townsend/Keystone run would have been a great service to the public and provided positive public relations as well. Unless there is more information that we are not being told, WSF has clearly "missed the boat" on this one.
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Post by EGfleet on Sept 22, 2007 5:43:14 GMT -8
New Ferry Being Studied for Port Townsend Route
By Ed Friedrich (Kitsap Sun)
Friday, September 21, 2007
A replacement for the Port Townsend-Keystone route's 80-year-old ferries is being developed on the heels of the release of contingency plan in case the old boats die before new ones are built.
The baseline requirements for a new ferry are that it carry between 60 and 100 cars and navigate tiny Keystone Harbor, said Tim Caldwell of the Port Townsend Ferry Advisory Committee. Contrary to earlier plans, the terminals won't be moved or enlarged to handle larger boats.
A "partnership group" of Washington State Ferry officials and community leaders from Port Townsend and Whidbey Island has been meeting since July to find options for the 59-car Steel Electric class boats, said ferries spokeswoman Hadley Greene. The four ferries, launched in 1927 and rebuilt in the 1980s, have had problems with cracks this year. Only two of the four — the Klickitat at Port Townsend-Keystone and Illahee in the San Juan Islands — are operating.
The other two are at the Eagle Harbor maintenance facility on Bainbridge Island. The Quinault is awaiting dry dock space at Todd Shipyard to complete repairs to two cracked stern tubes. The Nisqually, which had been in semi-retirement until forced into duty last spring, is out of service indefinitely awaiting the outcome of a hull survey, said ferries spokeswoman Marta Coursey.
Washington State Ferries recently accepted a proposal from three state shipyards to cooperatively build four 144-car ferries. One would've sailed between a relocated Whidbey Island terminal and expanded Port Townsend dock. Both communities felt the upgrades would be out of character, however, and the plan was scrapped.
"The process didn't involve the community early enough or the community didn't recognize it had to get involved early enough," said Caldwell, also general manager of the Port Townsend Chamber of Commerce. "The issue was the land-side infrastructure isn't prepared to disgorge 140 cars onto a two-lane highway."
Propulsion systems for the new 144-car ferries were already bought with a federal grant, and they won't work in smaller boats.
Technology has changed radically since the Steel Electric ferries were built eight decades ago, and the vessel study group is exploring all of the new possibilities, Caldwell said. One option is a more maneuverable propulsion system that would allow a boat to dock at Keystone during low tides, which frequently cancel sailings. The advantages would have to be weighed against the added cost.
The group aims to have a proposal prepared for the next legislative session in January.
There is no money available for special Port Townsend-Keystone boats. Even if there were, it'd probably take at least five years before they could be built and launched, Caldwell said. The Steel Electrics might not survive that long, so Gov. Chris Gregoire ordered the ferry system to develop a contingency plan. Submitted a few weeks ago for her review, it features four options:
1. Passenger-only ferry service between Port Townsend and Keystone (only 6 percent of riders are commuters)
2. Car ferry service between Port Townsend and Edmonds
3. Purchase or lease a boat that can operate in Keystone Harbor (A preliminary search turned up no suitable replacement in the United States. The ferry system would have to get a waiver from the Jones Act to buy from outside the country.)
4. Replace the hulls on the Steel Electrics (If this were a legitimate option, the ferry system would be doing it now, Caldwell said. It doesn't make sense to spend that much money on 80-year-old boats.)
A more pressing issue in Port Townsend is moving the remote holding area by May, when the existing one will be developed into stores and condominiums. There are about six options and the public is being asked to help whittle them down to two or three. The area needs to be able to hold about 80 cars. It would be used about 60 times a year, Caldwell said.
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Post by guest1 on Sept 23, 2007 15:39:20 GMT -8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article published Sep 23, 2007
Tacoma shipbuilder offers to build a new Port Townsend ferry on the fast track
By Jeff Chew, Peninsula Daily News
PORT TOWNSEND - In three months, J.M. Martinac Shipbuilding Corp. of Tacoma could have union workers cutting steel for a new ferry to serve the Port Townsend-Keystone route, a company representative said.
Jonathan Platt, a lobbyist with Martinac's Safe Passage Ferries Project, spoke to about 30 people at a Thursday night forum at Fort Worden State Park Commons.
The forum was sponsored by the Washington State Ferries and the North Sound Ferry Advisory Council.
"There is a design available, and we could deliver a boat in 2009," he told the Peninsula Daily News.
The state ferry system has not received a proposal from Martinac, nor have company officials directly discussed the matter with the state, said Marta Coursey, director of communications for the state ferry system.
"I know that they are very interested, and have been for a long time, in building vessels for that route," she said.
J.M Martinac filed a federal lawsuit last fall accusing state officials of civil racketeering in the matter of contracts for building state ferries.
In 2005, a judge ruled that the state at one point had unlawfully eliminated Martinac from the bidding.
The suit is pending even as state officials - at Gov. Chris Gregoire's insistence - have negotiated with Martinac to play a role in building new ferries.
The plan now calls for Todd Pacific Shipyards Corp. of Seattle to take the lead in building the ferries, with Martinac and Whidbey Island's Nichols Brothers Boat Builders Inc. the primary subcontractors.
Platt said the lawsuit is on hold.
The Puget Sound shipbuilding companies agreed to build three 144-car ferries for the Seattle-area state ferries routes for about $342 million.
Such ferries are too large for the Port Townsend-Keystone route, said members of the public, and the state has agreed to pursue the manufacture of smaller ferries.
"The logic is, we've set up a great teaming agreement," said Platt, one that could be applied to building new ferries to replace the four 1927-vintage Steel Electric-class ferries that serve the route between the Port Townsend and Keystone Harbor on Whidbey Island and the San Juans Islands.Four aging ferries
The four aged Steel Electrics - which are the only ferries small enough and agile enough to maneuver in and out of the terminals at Keystone and Port Townsend - have been springing hull leaks for years and suffer from corrosion problems.
They also don't meet federal safety requirements in effect for other ferries since the mid-1950s.
Two of the Steel Electrics, the Quinault and Nisqually, are now out of service for repairs and Coast Guard inspections.
The Illahee is serving the San Juan Island-Anacortes route.
Since Sept. 9, the Klickitat has been the lone ferry serving the Port Townsend-Keystone run.
Mike Anderson, executive director of the state ferry system, said last week that, other than the four Steel Electrics, "there are no other viable options for passenger-vehicle services" for the route.
If all four ferries failed, the agency would be left with one option, he said.
It would close the route.
State ferry system officials have tentatively scheduled construction of one boat of 100 vehicles or less by 2010.
Platt said Martinac could step up the pace of ferry design and production.
"By 2010, you'd have two ferries," he said, saying that the work that would create 600 jobs for union craftsmen.
Coursey said that the agency is working closely with Port Townsend and Whidbey Island leaders and residents to come up with an initial planning study for state lawmakers when the state Legislature convenes in January.
The initial planning study that was requested by Paula Hammond, the new state Department of Transportation secretary, would present route recommendations, not specific ferry designs, Coursey said.
"We're not at design selection," she said.Design specifics
The Martinac "Island Class" ferry that Platt proposes would carry 100 vehicles or less with a capacity for 1,200 passengers and a service speed of 17 knots.
A diesel-electric system would power a Z-Drive Propulsion System, which Platt described as an "all-wheel-drive for ships."
The drives at each end of the vessel would come with double props spinning in opposite directions.
The drives are capable of turning 360-degrees, eliminating the need for a rudder, Platt said.
"It allows for pinpont accuracy in maneuvering to offset the effects of heavy winds and currents," Platt said.
The idea of having new ferries sooner than later appeals to state Rep. Lynn Kessler, D-Hoquiam, House Majority leader and the North Olympic Peninsula's ranking lawmaker.
While she has not seen Martinac's proposal, she supports a faster process leading to the design and construction of new vessels for the Port Townsend-Keystone route.
"With these (Steel Electric) boats, we need to do something more than the government snail's pace," Kessler said.
"We're in a crisis, quite honestly, so we need a Nike kind of attitude and 'just do it.'"
Kessler said she wanted to learn more about Martinac's proposal, adding that the existing state ferry system process was "like watching paint dry."
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FNS
Voyager 
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,942
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Post by FNS on Sept 24, 2007 8:28:59 GMT -8
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Post by Barnacle on Sept 24, 2007 10:27:55 GMT -8
Backing in or out of Keystone Harbor is a bad idea. If you want to risk your license on it, feel free... I'm not the slightest bit interested.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Sept 24, 2007 11:26:06 GMT -8
Three? Was there a change recently or is that figure incorrect?
I assume they meant to say 144-car boats.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,885 
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 24, 2007 13:44:19 GMT -8
Backing in or out of Keystone Harbor is a bad idea. If you want to risk your license on it, feel free... I'm not the slightest bit interested. In addition to that, this boat would look like something from another planet, beside WSF's regular boats. |
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Post by SS Shasta on Sept 24, 2007 15:58:01 GMT -8
No thanks! That one needs to stay on the East Coast or sail to the breakers in India.
Let's stay with the Steel Electrics now that repairs are well underway ;D.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,942
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Post by FNS on Sept 24, 2007 17:40:59 GMT -8
I think we'll do that, folks! It was only a thought of mine, though, because of the Main Deck's narrow size, the car carrying capacity, and the draft of the hull. I never minded the upperworks in this. Would have been fun to be in that observatory below the wheelhouse. What a view of the Olympics and Mount Baker (dreaming)! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2007 17:50:31 GMT -8
ferrynut: good find on the MV Cape May. She's a interesting looking ferry and after looking at the website I really want to go to the East Coast and have a ride on one of their ferries. I like the looks of them! I have to agree with Barnacle that someone would not want to back her out of the Keystone terminal. But she could be used, I think, at Bremerton or in the San Juans.
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Post by Barnacle on Sept 26, 2007 6:52:09 GMT -8
No thanks! That one needs to stay on the East Coast or sail to the breakers in India. Let's stay with the Steel Electrics now that repairs are well underway ;D. Except we're looking to solve the problem, not prolong it. |
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Post by Barnacle on Sept 26, 2007 6:53:45 GMT -8
ferrynut: good find on the MV Cape May. She's a interesting looking ferry and after looking at the website I really want to go to the East Coast and have a ride on one of their ferries. I like the looks of them! I have to agree with Barnacle that someone would not want to back her out of the Keystone terminal. But she could be used, I think, at Bremerton or in the San Juans. I'd guess too small for Bremerton (except maybe as a third vessel, but I don't think she could keep up speed-wise) and the San Juans... well, we back in and out of port a lot, but I wouldn't want to try Friday harbor either. |
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Kam
Voyager
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Post by Kam on Sept 26, 2007 23:48:02 GMT -8
ferrynut: good find on the MV Cape May. She's a interesting looking ferry and after looking at the website I really want to go to the East Coast and have a ride on one of their ferries. I like the looks of them! I have to agree with Barnacle that someone would not want to back her out of the Keystone terminal. But she could be used, I think, at Bremerton or in the San Juans. I'd guess too small for Bremerton (except maybe as a third vessel, but I don't think she could keep up speed-wise) and the San Juans... well, we back in and out of port a lot, but I wouldn't want to try Friday harbor either. Hmmm... but a perfect ship for one of the gulf island runs or perhaps erals cove... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2007 8:37:34 GMT -8
Well KAM I have to agree.... I think that she would be a much better vessel for BCF than for WSF. I am afraid she wouldn't be favoured by WSF since she is a single ender. I am not sure how many crews would even know how to operate her. I could see her at Earls Cove, it would be fun riding her there.
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Post by Barnacle on Sept 27, 2007 19:26:57 GMT -8
I am afraid she wouldn't be favoured by WSF since she is a single ender. I am not sure how many crews would even know how to operate her. I'm not quite sure if I should bristle at that or not. I'll bet there's a higher percentage of ship's officers at WSF that know what to do with "reverse gear" than there are drivers who know how to do same... at least, that's what I've observed from watching people back on to the boat. Of course, I'm also on one of the two runs where a WSF boat ever backs out of the slip to proceed to the next one. ;D |
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