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Post by Barnacle on Feb 1, 2008 13:57:05 GMT -8
Seriously, with modern technology over the last 80 years, one might think that with lighter materials, new equipment, engineering advances, etc., the basic design/layout could be used and upgraded to meet safety, ADA, and weight requirements. The Steel's cabin design, galley, etc. were first class in my opinion. That's very hard to say because I was so angry when WSF rebuilt them and destroyed their lovely wooden cabins from SFBay days. One could get a great hamberger with plenty of onions in the Quinault Galley It's true that their low cardeck was a problem, but some of that came with their rebuilds in the 1980,s. Anyway, I just can't believe that the state has to be so stupid to replace them with that floating boxcar design that likely works at Anderson Island, but at Port Townsend/Keystone? Lighter materials... Well, frankly, steel is still steel. Aluminum is still in relative infancy and, I suspect, probably too malleable for prolonged use out there. Low car deck wasn't near the problem as the narrow car deck. The wooden cabins, of course, really didn't meet the long-sought-after "safety requirements." I wouldn't want to have to be on the fire team on one of those boats with the increasing numbers of rockheads and plainly malevolent people out there these days. They were, I will concede, much more attractive and shapely than their angular steel counterparts. I liked the Klickitat's layout better than the other three, as least on an interior basis--but the crew's quarters up topside would've improved it beyond all recognition. (And I must add as an aside that despite being lauded for the fiscal conservancy in the 1980s, WSF's decision to rebuild the SE's is increasingly appearing to have been a mistake. We won't ever get into the Reaganomics of selling depreciation.) As for the Steilacoom design being "stupid," what makes it stupid? Do you have a specific concern, or is it just that they aren't steel-electrics being flogged into their centennial year? Seriously, I admit I have a certain amount of misgiving regarding their open deck, but if the Christine Anderson made it across the Columbia bar in a storm, well, perhaps the Micro Class are a tad bit burlier than we award credit for.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Feb 3, 2008 12:11:35 GMT -8
Big wave damages Keystone passenger ferrywww.stpns.net/view_article.html?articleId=75548651013267813By Kasia Pierzga for The Whidbey Examiner COUPEVILLE, Washington (STPNS) -- The passenger ferry Snohomish was pulled from service Friday, Feb. 1 after a violent encounter with a large wave damaged the vessel. Washington State Ferries staff at the Keystone terminal on Whidbey Island said the damage occurred when the vessel plunged through a wave caused by the wake of a freighter passing through Admiralty Inlet during the 5:05 p.m. crossing from Port Townsend to Keystone. The wave was reported to have washed up and over the vessel, crashing with enough force to cause external damage and dislodge ceiling panels inside the passenger cabin. So much water entered the lower cabin that passengers were moved to the upper deck. People who were aboard at the time reported that the vessel plunged down into the trough of the wave, and seemed at one point to have been completely immersed. While passengers waited to board the Snohomish at Keystone, US Coast Guard officials inspected the vessel, and at about 8:30 p.m. announced that the boat would be removed from service for the rest of the day. About three dozen passengers were left stranded on the Whidbey Island end of the route; some opted to drive around via the Mukilteo/Clinton and Edmonds/Kingston ferry routes to reach their destinations on the Olympic Peninsula. The Snohomish is currently docked at Port Townsend, where the vessel is undergoing additional inspection. Friday night, the WSF Web site said only that the ferry had been pulled from service "due to weather." But NOAA weather reports for Admiralty Inlet indicate light winds at 10 to 15 knots, with wind waves of only one to two feet. WSF officials could not be reached for further information. No information is currently available as to whether the Snohomish will return to service on Saturday, Feb. 2. WSF does not have another ferry small enough to serve the Keystone-Port Townsend route. Without a vessel, WSF may turn to Port Townsend-based Puget Sound Express to provide temporary passenger ferry service on one of the company's two small whale-watching boats. Information about the Snohomish on the WSF web site does not provide its height from the waterline to the top of the vessel.
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Post by ferrytraveller on Feb 3, 2008 15:37:53 GMT -8
I have a question, not sure if its ever been asked but could 1 of the pacificats be uses on this route or any of the WSF runs? I know some modifications may be needed to be compatible with the docks or maybe more major work, so they used a prop and rudder system, but could it be done?
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 3, 2008 16:19:53 GMT -8
No. The modifications would be cost-prohibitive, not to mention the break-out costs, and then there's the fuel costs and other operating issues... I think it might even take longer to do than just building a new boat. Sometimes things are so badly broken it's best just to leave them, and I think the PacifiCats are one of them. They're fast and sleek and all that, but fundamentally they were a bad idea from start to end.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Feb 4, 2008 12:18:03 GMT -8
I see on the www.siitech.net tracker that the MV STEILACOOM II is making her way up to Port Townsend. At the time I'm typing letters in this message, she is abeam north of Lagoon Point. She did make a stop at Kingston, just to meet the KLICKITAT and probably for her crew to get lunch and/or snacks. Perhaps, they had to get their sleeping bags off the KLICK (just gossiping)! She'll be at her new home at Port Townsend in about a half hour or so.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Feb 4, 2008 13:33:34 GMT -8
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Feb 4, 2008 14:46:08 GMT -8
First return trial trip from Keystone. After crossing the Admiralty Inlet, she began doing donuts around the Port Townsend area.
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Post by In Washington on Feb 4, 2008 20:35:07 GMT -8
i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii241/redddan3/100_0081.jpgThere are some more in the photobucket. I was going to go down on the dock but there was enough activity that I decided a "busman's" holiday can wait. Edited to fix messed up IMG tag ('[' was missing)
Edit #2: image size exceeded 800 x 600 limit. so changed to a link
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Feb 4, 2008 20:58:48 GMT -8
i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii241/redddan3/100_0081.jpgThere are some more in the photobucket. I was going to go down on the dock but there was enough activity that I decided a "busman's" holiday can wait. Edited to fix messed up IMG tag ('[' was missing)
Edit #2: image size exceeded 800 x 600 limit. so changed to a link I have reduced the "In Washington" photo to the maximum forum 800 width and present it here: I have also resized the "In Washington" image below to the regulation forum size. Great photos!
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Post by In Washington on Feb 4, 2008 21:03:59 GMT -8
Thanks. I will try to get that right next time.
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Post by In Washington on Feb 4, 2008 21:10:18 GMT -8
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Post by In Washington on Feb 4, 2008 21:15:34 GMT -8
Sorry I didn't get a bigger shot here. She looks odd head on...
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Post by SS San Mateo on Feb 6, 2008 7:21:38 GMT -8
Replacement ferry halts sea trial after taking on up to two feet of waterwww.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20080206/NEWS/802060302By Jeff Chew, Peninsula Daily News PORT TOWNSEND — High wind and rough seas swamped the Steilacoom II with up to two feet of water Tuesday morning, forcing the ferry's captain to halt sea trials for nearly three hours, a Washington State Ferries spokeswoman said. "By mid-morning, there were steady 45-knot winds (51.8 mph) and four-foot seas," said Hadley Greene, state ferries communications manager, after a report from Steilacoom II Capt. Mark Haupt, formerly captain of the Steel Electric-class ferry, MV Klickitat. The Klickitat — which was pulled from service Nov. 20 for safety reasons along with the other three Steel Electric vehicle ferries — was towed from Port Townsend on Sunday to a temporary berth at Kingston. The Klickitat was moved to make room at the Port Townsend ferry terminal for the passenger-only ferry, the Snohomish, which is carrying passengers between Port Townsend and Keystone until the Steilacoom II car ferry, which the state ferries system leased from Pierce County for the route, finishes sea trials. The sea trials are being watched carefully by all concerned to see if the 50-car ferry, which is smaller than the 64-car Steel Electrics, can handle the rough passage. The Steilacoom II would serve as the model for three new car ferries proposed by Gov. Chris Gregoire, to be built over the next three years with a $100 million budget, to replace the Steel Electrics on the Port Townsend-Keystone route. Took on water"The Steilacoom II took on one to two feet of green water on the car deck, enough so Capt. Haupt thought it was prudent to stop operating for a few hours," Greene said. "He'll continue to test the vessel to determine thresholds for service cancellations." Despite hammering winds on Admiralty Inlet for much of Tuesday morning, the second day of sea trials for the ferry, the SteilacoomII was successful in one rough-water landing at Keystone Harbor ferry dock. The vessel also made five successful Keystone landings on Monday while waters were calm, Greene said. Keystone, known for its powerful currents and limited space for maneuverability, has been described by ferry captains as the toughest landing in Puget Sound's ferry system. With winds heavier than normal, the crew on Tuesday tested the vessel in Port Townsend Bay and landings at both Port Townsend and Keystone terminals. In addition to practicing landings in Port Townsend and Keystone, and testing the vessel at different speeds, the crew on Monday ran through trials to determine the vessel's stopping distance and turning radius, according to Greene. Because of the wind Tuesday, the captain had to abandon one landing at Port Townsend ferry dock, Greene said. "They went back out and re-approached the terminal, successfully landing the vessel," she said. "After the winds died down a bit, the crew began contemplating landings in Keystone Harbor." Vessel turns wellHaupt told Greene that the vessel turns well and that he has been able to test different approaches to Keystone Harbor. State Transportation Secretary Paula Hammond retired the Klickitat, along with the Nisqually, Illahee and Quinault after the state ferries system engineers found extensive pitting and corrosion in the Quinault's hull. Similar damage was later found in the Illahee's hull. ________ Jefferson County Editor Jeff Chew can be reached at 360-385-2335 or jeff.chew@peninsuladailynews.com.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Feb 6, 2008 19:13:59 GMT -8
Giant wave tilts Keystone ferry, damages ship
By Michaela Marx Wheatley
Feb 06 2008
It will take more than a deep breath for sisters Celina and Twyla Dill to stay calm when they board the Port Townsend ferry to visit their mother next weekend.
The two students from Freeland, along with their father, Walter Dill, were aboard the Snohomish passenger ferry on Friday when an encounter with a violent wave pushed the vessel under water and gallons of seawater streamed into the cabin.
“I really thought I was going to die,” said Celina, 12. “I was sitting facing my sister and Janice, a friend. I saw their faces. I turned around and all I saw was the dark blue water. Then the ceiling collapsed.
“It was my worst nightmare,” she said.
During the 5:05 p.m. crossing from Port Townsend to Whidbey Island on Feb. 1, the ferry plunged through a wave caused by the wake of a large southbound container ship passing through Admiralty Inlet, Walter Dill said. The boat tilted to a 20-degree angle and water shot into the cabin.
Ferry officials, however, said that it was a weather-related incident.
Traci Brewer-Rogstad, deputy director of Washington State Ferries, said the combination of rough seas, westerly winds and the freighter wake caused the incident.
She said a rogue wave hit the small ferry.
“Swells from two different directions hit the ferry, add in the freighter — it put a significant portion of the vessel under water,” Brewer-Rogstad said.
However, the ferry did try to get behind the freighter.
“It typically allows for smoother sailing,” she said.
Crossings can be rough on the Keystone-Port Townsend route.
“It’s not necessarily uncommon for this route this time of the year,” Brewer-Rogstad said.
Dill disagrees. He said seas were calm.
“The weather was relatively calm,” he said. “The swells were maybe one or two feet.”
“There is no chance that a rogue wave could have hit us,” Dill said.
Instead of heading toward the Keystone ferry dock, the captain turned south at a high rate of speed and followed the freighter, Dill recalled.
“We were actually getting quite close to the freighter — with it being slightly to the right of the ferry,” he said.
“The bizarre thing was as we were getting closer to the freighter, we turned right,” Dill said. “And we were talking about that. ‘Now why are they doing that?’ This wasn’t making any sense.”
“We were joking, ‘Twyla, tell the captain to turn left,’” Dill said. The outspoken 15-year-old called out to the captain, but the boat turned further right.
“Then it happened,” Dill said. “A huge wave engulfed the front of the ferry and it went nose down.”
Once the ferry tilted, time appeared to stand still. The entire front of the boat was engulfed in dark green water, Dill said.
“Then things started breaking and exploding,” he recalled. “The ceiling at the front of the ferry caved in and water gushed in. People were screaming and running up to the back of the boat. A lot of people were crying,” he said.
“We all thought we were dead.”
Twyla said she didn’t think much at all and simply reacted.
“At the time it didn’t register,” she said. “I saw the water and took off running.”
Passenger Brooklyn Bauer of Forks was on the ferry from the peninsula for the first time.
“I’d never been on the ferry. We were playing cards. My friend said ‘I really like the way the waves feel,’” she said, adding that small waves rocked the boat gently. But then she noticed other passengers getting nervous.
Two minutes later, the wave hit.
“My friend started running. I just sat there in shock,” Bauer recalled.
Once the wave passed, Walter Dill said a young ferry worker came around to ask the passengers if they were OK, but that was the only contact the crew made with the passengers after the scare.
“The captain was nowhere to be seen,” Dill said.
The captain announced that the boat was OK and that the crossing would continue, Dill said.
Dill said he is disappointed that ferry officials have not contacted him even though he sent them an e-mail Saturday informing them of the incident.
“Not a word,” he said.
The ferry sustained minor damage and was taken out of service for the rest of the day.
“Some water went in the carpet. It pushed in ceiling tiles,” Brewer-Rogstad said. “The alarm system went off. That contributed to the scary situation. Obviously people were freaked out.”
Crossings were canceled for that day “due to weather.” The Snohomish was back in service the next morning.
Brewer-Rogstad said the Coast Guard also came out to investigate.
“It was a scary event, but our crews are trained to find the quickest and safest way out,” she said. “While rough seas are not hugely uncommon on this route, it’s a much different experience on the much smaller vessel.”
Puget Sound Express out of Hudson Point Marina has been providing service until the Steilacoom II takes over the route. The Snohomish passenger ferry was put on the route to replace the 80-year-old Steel Electric class car ferry that was taken out of the water for safety reasons in November.
On Monday, Feb. 4, the Steilacoom II begun crew familiarization and training operations on the Port Townsend-Keystone route. The state is leasing the 50-car vessel from Pierce County to serve the route between Whidbey and the peninsula.
Ferry officials are working hard to return vehicle ferry service to the Port Townsend-Keystone route as soon as possible, Brewer-Rogstad said.
Crew training will last approximately one week and vehicle ferry service with the Steilacoom II is expected to resume in early February.
An exact service date will be announced later.
Celina and Twyla Dill can’t wait for the bigger ferry to go into service.
Celina said she isn’t looking forward to next Saturday when she and her sister will take their next trip to see their mom.
“I just want to ride the big ferry,” she said.
Twyla said she’ll be able to handle the trip — after all she has made the crossing many times — unless the weather is rough.
“I am already afraid of small boats, but I never had a reason why,” Twyla said. “Now I have a reason.”
Michaela Marx Wheatley can be reached at 221-5300 or mmarxwheatley@southwhidbeyrecord.com.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Feb 7, 2008 14:58:27 GMT -8
Not again.... Passenger ferry out of service after being damaged by wave Thursday morningwww.ptleader.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=20026&TM=61876.77The passenger ferry Snohomish sustained damage and is out of service today after hitting a wave at about 9:15 a.m. en route from Port Townsend to Keystone. None of the nine passengers or five crew aboard were injured, reported Washington State Ferries. After U.S. Coast Guard inspection, the ferry must go to Eagle Harbor on Bainbridge Island fore repairs. WSF has announced that passenger ferry service here has been canceled for today, Thursday. There is no word yet whether the Snohomish or some other passenger ferry will be in service Friday. The vehicle ferry Steilacoom II is undergoing sea trials here and could be in service as soon as Saturday. The Snohomish was on the 9:05 a.m. departure out of Port Townsend. The Feb. 7 incident occurred in about the same area of the Admiralty Inlet crossing as a Feb. 2 incident, Hadley Greene, WSF communications manager, told The Leader Thursday morning. No other ships were in the vicinity, she reported. A large wave came over the Snohomish bow. Two doors on the vessel's starboard side were blown in, and seawater entered the main passenger cabin, according to the initial WSF report. Although a high wind warning was in effect for Admiralty Inlet at the time, wind speed was at 11 knots. After the incident, the Snohomish continued on to Keystone. Check here, or www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries, for news on when the passenger ferry service route is reopened.
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Post by EGfleet on Feb 9, 2008 9:31:00 GMT -8
I'm almost willing to put money down on us getting on Steilacoom II and two Island Homes. ;D
Officials rethink ferry after choppy trip
By Kaitlin Manry, Herald Writer
ABOARD THE STEILACOOM II -- The Steilacoom II rolled from side to side as it pulled out of Keystone Harbor on Friday, carrying passengers across Admiralty Inlet for the first time.
The state lawmakers on board clutched railings and tables to steady themselves as the ferry started across the choppy emerald water. Though none got seasick, many said the rough water between Whidbey Island and Port Townsend needs new ferries that are bigger and better suited to the crossing.
The state will need to build one new ferry modeled on the Steilacoom II because the boat can be assembled quickly and is needed immediately, said Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, D-Camano Island. "But in the long run, there's no question we have to have bigger boats," she added.
Haugen was among the legislators and Washington State Ferry officials who inaugurated the Steilacoom II on Friday with a round-trip voyage between Port Townsend and Keystone.
The ferry began carrying walk-on passengers late Friday, and was scheduled to begin carrying vehicles today. The route has been without a car ferry for nearly three months, and commuters and business owners were anxious for service to resume.
On Friday, the Steilacoom II chopped through small waves on the notoriously rough Admiralty Inlet as rain sprinkled its deck. The ferry is unlike anything in the state's fleet, with a relatively small passenger cabin perched on top of a tall, open car deck designed to accommodate tractor-trailers.
The state is leasing the 50-car ferry from Pierce County until new ferries for the route are built. State officials had already decided to build one ferry modeled after the Steilacoom II and had been discussing plans to build two more.
After Friday's voyage, it was clear that decision-makers are now leaning toward alternative designs for the two additional vessels.
The Steilacoom-style "boat we are building is a great candidate for the Port Defiance-to-Tahlequah run," said State Transportation Secretary Paula Hammond. "Are we building a boat we'll never use? No. We're building a boat we'll use there or as a back-up."
Money and time are among the main reasons lawmakers initially considered building three ferries modeled after the Steilacoom II. Officials hoped they would replace the 80-year-old Steel Electric-class ferries, which Hammond ordered out of the water on Nov. 20, because of safety concerns.
Coast Guard-approved designs are available for the Steilacoom II boats, which makes them quicker to build than most.
It would cost around $60 million to build three Steilacoom-style ferries, Hammond said.
The Island Home, a larger, more expensive ferry designed for use in Nantucket, Mass., also has been considered. Building two Island Home ferries and one Steilacoom II would cost around $85 million, Hammond said.
Rep. Barbara Bailey, R-Oak Harbor, said the state needs to find the money to build the right ferries. She's tired of missteps by ferry officials and said public trust in the system is "very low."
"We appropriated money in 2003 to replace the Steel Electrics that have been pulled out of service," she said. "So there should be money to replace them. If we had built the boats in 2003, we would have the first of those boats on the water this year.
"Now we're in a crisis situation and we have to react differently and we never should have had to do that. With that in mind, I want to make sure we get the right boats in the future."
Capt. Mark Haupt said the Steilacoom II's rounded keel makes it heave more than the Steel Electric ferries. The Steilacoom II also has less room between the surface of the water and the car deck and fewer protective bulwarks, Haupt said.
Consequently, the ferry will probably have to be pulled from service more than the Steel Electrics were during bad weather, he said.
"When it gets too rough, we just aren't going to run," he said, as the boat rocked its way across Admiralty Inlet on Friday. "It's probably more appropriate to use it on other routes on the ferry system."
Hammond said she thought the ferry rode fine, but said crews will be watching to see whether passengers are comfortable, especially during rough weather. Even without strong winds or choppy water, which are common for the crossing, the ferry was rolling.
"I didn't feel unusually uncomfortable," Hammond said.
The state is leasing the ferry from Pierce County for around $42,000 a month.
In the next few weeks, while crews and passengers become accustomed to the Steilacoom II, lawmakers plan to make key decisions on the design and cost of the next generation of Washington ferries.
Hammond said she'll continue working to improve the ferry system's shaky finances, and also to restore public trust in the system.
"I hope that people already feel like there's a difference in Washington State Ferries," she said. "I'm working hard to change the culture of communication openness. I'm trying to work hard so that when people ask a question, they feel like they get a straight answer. ... As far as trust and confidence within the system, it's really going to take getting boats we can rely on."
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Post by BreannaF on Feb 9, 2008 10:39:09 GMT -8
Observations: - There will be a lot of us folks out there today saying "I told you so" to these government officials. It is usually impolite to openly gloat.
- So, it took an actual ride on the ferry for the government officials to figure out which were right and wrong choices. Perhaps they could do that a bit more often with other matters.
- Capt. Haupt seems to be unafraid to tell it like it is. The boat is small. It rocks much more than a Steel-Electric. It will not be operating as often than the S-E's in bad weather.
- I think I heard the hint of "This thing's just a raft when it's used in a lake this big." Or something like that.
- Ms. Hammond, amazingly after a ride where everyone else changed their mind on the Steilacoom being a viable long-term alternative for the route, stated that she thought the ferry ride was just fine. If I had a literary bent, I would add "after looking at the bottom of her seasick bag then swallowing hard" after that sentence. The mark of a true politician (elected or not) is the ability to put a positive spin on everything, right or wrong.
- I say, "fire the politician and put the ferry captain in her place." Why not?
- While a few of them have gained a moment if intestinal fortitude, perhaps someone should suggest building a proper harbor and terminal, rather than fiddling around with special ferries.
- My guess is that if I am ever going to ride on this ferry on this route, it will be on a day when Mrs. K is not along for the ride.
Why is the Gilligan's Island theme running over and over in my head right now?
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Post by old_wsf_fan on Feb 9, 2008 12:25:57 GMT -8
I think that the only route that is suiteable for the Steilicoom II is the Point Defiance/Talequah route. The Steilicoom II was designed for sheltered island areas of south Puget Sound not for the open waters of northern Puget Sound.
I am not knocking the boat itself, it is just not the boat for most WSF routes.
At least they are talking about only building one, most likely to replace the Rhody.
I still think the most logical and economicalthing to do concerning this route is to modify Keystone Harbor or relocate it and use current vessels or future design vessels (144's).
I also think that the Steilicoom II, seen from the end in an above posts' photo, looks very much like the Leschi.
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 10, 2008 13:26:39 GMT -8
The Steilacoom II design is inadequate.
Wow.
Listen carefully and you'll hear the sound of 800 ferryboaters saying "Well, DUH!"
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Post by Kahloke on Feb 10, 2008 14:23:48 GMT -8
I would love to see an Island Home-esque type of ferry on the Port Townsend-Keystone run I know I have said this multiple times on other threads). Now that they are finding the Steilacoom II being overwhelmed by rough weather, we may have a chance at seeing a ferry like the Island Home in the future. Here are a couple of changes from the Island Home design that I think would work better for the Port Townsend route:
1. Lose the saddle lounges (this has been discussed before) 2. Instead of twin stairwells with a 1-3-1 lane configuration, go with a wider central stairwell/chase and have 3 lanes on either side (kind of like a B-Class or Coho layout). That will give the vessel 6 lanes of traffic versus 5 on Island Home, which may be possible to accomplish without having to widen the boat too much. 3. Do not install platform decks. Getting in six lanes of traffic on the main car deck should bump the vehicle yield up from 60 without having to do platforms.
I'm not a naval architect, nor do I have any knowledge of vessel design, so I'm more than a little out of my element here, but is something like what I proposed above even possible?
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 10, 2008 14:43:21 GMT -8
Let's see... I'm going on the fly here because I'm not familiar with the layout of the Island Home, but if the saddle lounges went away, we might have to shave a bit of the upper-deck weight (though perhaps not, depending on where the center of gravity is), and one central fidley like the Rhody... works for me. Should be able to get rid of the platforms and still make 60 cars out of it.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Feb 11, 2008 21:25:44 GMT -8
Well, I get to take my yearly trip across to Port Townsend route in about a month... it will be interesting to see how she rides on the way over. Camera will be in hand!
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Feb 12, 2008 10:03:10 GMT -8
2. Instead of twin stairwells with a 1-3-1 lane configuration, go with a wider central stairwell/case and have 3 lanes on either side (kind of like a B-Class or Coho layout). That will give the vessel 6 lanes of traffic versus 5 on Island Home, which may be possible to accomplish without having to widen the boat too much. I'm actually more a fan of the dual stairs... particularly on the C-Class and majority of the WSF ships. I find it provides better access and passenger flow to the upper decks and is more convenient so you have fewer rows of cars to crawl over to get off the cardeck. I was actually kind of disappointed with BCs new Coastals which only have the central housing for stairs, especially since the stair ended up being so cramped. I think the dual stairwell design is far superior in terms of functionality and ease of use, despite the fact that it might use up an additional lane of space. I think it would be better if these speculative new vessel followed the Island Home in that design feature.
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 12, 2008 14:45:17 GMT -8
Well, if we did that we'd probably lose ten cars and end up with about the same capacity as the Steilacoom, which really doesn't help much.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Feb 12, 2008 15:05:34 GMT -8
2. Instead of twin stairwells with a 1-3-1 lane configuration, go with a wider central stairwell/case and have 3 lanes on either side (kind of like a B-Class or Coho layout). That will give the vessel 6 lanes of traffic versus 5 on Island Home, which may be possible to accomplish without having to widen the boat too much. I'm actually more a fan of the dual stairs... particularly on the C-Class and majority of the WSF ships. I find it provides better access and passenger flow to the upper decks and is more convenient so you have fewer rows of cars to crawl over to get off the cardeck. I was actually kind of disappointed with BCs new Coastals which only have the central housing for stairs, especially since the stair ended up being so cramped. I think the dual stairwell design is far superior in terms of functionality and ease of use, despite the fact that it might use up an additional lane of space. I think it would be better if these speculative new vessel followed the Island Home in that design feature. But the problem with have dual stairways is because these boat are so small. I mean if they were the size of the Coastal boats then yes.. i mean the just dumb not too. but on something this size one..
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