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Post by Dane on Feb 12, 2009 22:34:55 GMT -8
A Spirit docked at VB for a medical emergency a few years ago.
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Post by chinook2 on Feb 13, 2009 4:45:17 GMT -8
IIRC, correct me anybody--route 1A was the official designation for the scheduled TSA-SGI-SB service provided by the Tsawwassen then the Victoria in summer 1995. The same number may have been given to the scheduled supplemental service done by the Sidney in late 60s early 70s, or that may have been under the route 1 umbrella. When the Burnaby and New Westminster were both supplementing route 1 in the late 1980s there may have been MDS stops at Village Sturdies or Otter Bay, but nothing scheduled.
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Post by kerryssi on Feb 13, 2009 8:57:43 GMT -8
The New West would fit in VB. In fact the second dock at VB was designed so it could have an upper ramp added in the future.
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Post by Kahloke on Feb 13, 2009 9:19:58 GMT -8
Heck, even if they didn't add an upper ramp at Village Bay, Route 1A could still work. Dedicate the main car deck to Village Bay traffic, and have the upper car deck for Tsa-Swb traffic.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 13, 2009 10:42:55 GMT -8
Dane, where did you see this '1A' mentioned? I've never heard of it.
The explanation of it being Tsawwassen-Swartz Bay service, with stops in the Gulf Islands, seems the most likely one. Up until about 1980, it was common for one vessel, and more rarely, two, to make regular Gulf Island stops as part of a strait crossing. Sometimes this was included in the route 1 schedule, sometimes it was part of the route 5 or 9 schedule, and sometimes listed separately. Some years the service was more or less daily, or it could be just one or two stops a week. The vessels used were Queen of Tsawwassen, Queen of Sidney, Sechelt Queen, and Queen of The Islands. 'chinook2' mentions such a route in '95, but that was only one stop at Village Bay, once a week.
Another little 1A type quirk was '91- through '93 or so, when the Queen of Nanaimo would return to Long Harbour from Tsawwassen Friday afternoons, and do a trip to Swartz Bay and back. And, yes kerryssi, it was in the schedule. (Although in the first edition of the Gulf Islands schedule for that summer, they forgot to list the Long Harbour- Tsawwassen departures; a revised one was issued.)
You really need BC Ferries documents to figure out the route numbers, as they only appeared on schedules between '75 and '79.
Dane might be familiar with a route 4A, which existed for a time in the late '70s, on a limited weekly basis, between Swartz-Fulford-Otter Bay. It played a much more prominent role in '79, when Tachek and Pender Queen filled in for the Bowen Queen while she was out for her stretch.
At the risk of sounded like a tedious old guy who insists that everything was better 'way back when', schedules really were a lot more interesting pre-1990 or so. They could change significantly from year to year, in terms of times and vessels, unlike today where the same vessels are on the same routes with the same sailing times year after year. Route 1 and Gulf Islands schedules were particularly fluid.
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Post by Hardy on Feb 14, 2009 17:04:30 GMT -8
The consistency of the core schedules (-1, -2, -3, -30) is rather important for effective planning of trips (for tourists or transportation operations, say couriers, buslines etc). Fluidity of schedules can be bad and good, but having some core consistency is paramount.
Adjusting some weekly sailings to deal with overflow loads in a -1A scenario would not be too much disruption if the departures were only bumped (ahead of behind) by 30 mins or so. I am sure that there must be some good discussion to be had here regarding this.
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Post by kerryssi on Feb 17, 2009 8:33:39 GMT -8
The run might have been in the schedule but the managers at SWB decided it would be a deadhead trip, no one allowed on board, not even off duty crew. It could have been a good run as the majority of traffic using the Fulford route are going to the north end of the island.
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Post by roeco on Feb 17, 2009 9:27:46 GMT -8
A route I'm surprised BC Ferries never thought about doing is Swartz Bay-Horseshoe Bay, I think that route would have been good for South Island people(Victoria and area) going to Whistler, Sea to Sky or even a more direct route through Vancouver heading to the Valley. The South Island population far exceeds the entire Central and North Island combined.
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Post by Balfour on Feb 17, 2009 9:58:34 GMT -8
A route I'm surprised BC Ferries never thought about doing is Swartz Bay-Horseshoe Bay, I think that route would have been good for South Island people(Victoria and area) going to Whistler, Sea to Sky or even a more direct route through Vancouver heading to the Valley. The South Island population far exceeds the entire Central and North Island combined. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I think there would be a lot of difficulty with implementation. First of all, there aren't enough major vessels in the fleet, secondly, the crossing would be long. They need to cross the straight diagonally and then there's going through the Gulf Islands. Going to Active Pass would probably mean the shortest trip through the Gulf Islands, but would mean a long crossing of the straight. I could see it being convenient for the public, but I think it would be a costly route for BC Ferries.
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Post by gordon on Feb 17, 2009 10:23:29 GMT -8
If this route was implemented what vessels would be used? Cs are not used through Active Pass & Single ended vessels are not on Route #2 .
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 17, 2009 10:39:23 GMT -8
A route I'm surprised BC Ferries never thought about doing is Swartz Bay-Horseshoe Bay, I think that route would have been good for South Island people(Victoria and area) going to Whistler, Sea to Sky or even a more direct route through Vancouver heading to the Valley. The South Island population far exceeds the entire Central and North Island combined. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I think there would be a lot of difficulty with implementation. First of all, there aren't enough major vessels in the fleet, secondly, the crossing would be long. They need to cross the straight diagonally and then there's going through the Gulf Islands. Going to Active Pass would probably mean the shortest trip through the Gulf Islands, but would mean a long crossing of the straight. I could see it being convenient for the public, but I think it would be a costly route for BC Ferries. Horseshoe Bay is also maxed out for cars on busy summer weekends and big travel periods. However, if the PacifiCats had worked out that is the type of route that would have been good for them. They could have opened up the trottles in the open strait and not worried about wake issues. The route could have been mostly private vehicles because I imagine few commercial operators would be interested. So the loading issues of trucks wouldn't have been as much of a problem.
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Post by CN2972South on Feb 17, 2009 13:13:10 GMT -8
Single ended vessels are not on Route #2 . Doesn't mean they can be used. One of my last trips on the Queen of Esquimalt was from Departure Bay to Horeshoe Bay.
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Post by gordon on Feb 17, 2009 13:55:15 GMT -8
Would the Spirits have trouble docking @ HSB?
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Feb 17, 2009 14:12:38 GMT -8
Yes, although it has never been attempted, I'm pretty sure the Spirits would be too large to back out of HSB, and backing in would be even more difficult. They are over 120ft longer than the Vs, and are much wider. (now that I think about it, there's probably a very good reason it hasn't been attempted)
I don't think you could get a single ender much bigger than the V or B class into, or out of, Horseshoe Bay.
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Post by roeco on Feb 21, 2009 0:20:57 GMT -8
This route Could be done by a "C" Class if they didnt go through Active Pass! Is their not another route a BC Ferry could take?
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Post by DENelson83 on Feb 21, 2009 7:06:21 GMT -8
Of course there is. They can use Boundary Pass, but that would be a much longer sailing.
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on Feb 25, 2009 11:32:18 GMT -8
Does anyone know why there is a like a 2 hour layover at Saltery Bay mid day??? This really annoys me and I have always hated that about the route. I want to take a trip up to Jervis Inlet to see the Island Sky but the mid day layover screws everything up. I can still do a day trip from Victoria via Comox but it would be a long day with catching the 10:10am sailing and not being able to get back till the 8:45pm back to Comox cause the stupid schedules dont connect. I feel that it's pretty poor to have a 4 hour break between sailings when that route is part of highway 101. Not having sailings between 11:25am and 3:20pm from Saltery Bay and 12:25pm and 4:25pm from Earls Cove I think is pretty rediculas. Cut one of the later evening sailings instead of having a break mid day when I think there would be more people. Sorry but this just pisses me off. I know the holiday schedule allows for better times cause there is no layover and I think that should be the permenent schedule and they should make the schedules connect between the two routes to Comox and Saltery Bay.
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Post by DENelson83 on Feb 25, 2009 11:43:00 GMT -8
Perhaps it's a change of crew. Either that or the crew is having lunch.
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Post by Nickfro on Feb 25, 2009 12:00:08 GMT -8
That's a pretty good rant, Karl!
It's definitely a change of crew during that time, but more rationally the break in the schedule probably occurs because there isn't the demand to justify an additional round trip at that time. You don't want to have a layover in the middle of a crew shift either. That'd be a costly waste of utilizing your staff. The first and last sailings of the day are important ones from a commuter standpoint, so they can't do without those. BC Ferries definitely won't want to pay overtime to their staff just to provide an extra round trip when demand doesn't require it. Regardless of the schedule for the time of year, they only operate 8 scheduled round trips per day, 4 per crew shift. They smoothen the times out across the day during busier holiday periods, sacrificing the early 535am Saltery Bay sailing. Perhaps that's when it'll work better for you to make your Island Sky visit, Karl.
I remember one time travelling from Earls Cove to Saltery Bay in the summer. The sailing I got on was an overload, and they ended up running another round trip after my sailing instead of taking their scheduled layover. In the summer, that early afternoon period is much busier. I think they made a good move smoothening out their 8 round trips, as a 9th one probably isn't required due to much quieter sailings at the beginning and end of the day.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Feb 25, 2009 12:07:58 GMT -8
The reason the layover exists is so that the schedule can be kept with two 8-hour shifts WITHOUT incurring overtime. Because the route starts at around 0530, and ends at around 2330, there's a few hours extra where the ship has to stop. I would guess that they have the layover in the middle of the day because historically, that is the least busy time of day.
I agree though, it makes making a day trip from Victoria nearly impossible. You have to leave around 0630 and won't get back until almost 0100 the next morning. It's incredibly annoying, because there's only about 7 hours worth of driving time in there.
EDIT: It looks like nickfro said just about the same thing I did. Does that mean that "Great minds think alike"? Or "Fools seldom differ"?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 25, 2009 12:25:09 GMT -8
The schedule has been like this for decades, and for good reason, because the bulk of the traffic is moving earlier in the morning and later in the day. Not really 'rediculas' (sic) at all.
Route 7 has the second lowest vehicle space utilization in the system- 28%. It loses a ton of money compared to other routes. There's no justification for more sailings.
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Quatchi
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Post by Quatchi on Feb 25, 2009 13:06:32 GMT -8
I agree, the layover is timed in the low part of the day and also when the crew changes. From experience I know that the first 0530 sailing of the day is quite crowded then it drops picks up again in the morning and dies off at lunch. CREW CHANGE AND LAYOVER. Then in the afternoon it picks up again and then drops after diner and then spikes for the last 2330 sailing.
You have to remember the system is not for us nerds, they in no way expect people to be able to get from Victoria to Powell River and back in one day. Other than us nerdy morons, there are probably next to 0 people who actually want to do so.
I have no issue with this it allows for an earlier first sailing so you can catch the sailing out of Langdale and a later last sailing so you can get into Powell river from the last sailing out of Langdale.
Cheers,
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Post by Hardy on Feb 25, 2009 18:22:32 GMT -8
While on paper SWB->HSB may look good, I don't think that there is the demand for it.
Plus, if you sluice out the alternatives, the driving time added by either going up to Nanaimo and catching a boat (1.5 hrs) or driving through Tsawwassen to North Vancouver (again 1.5 hours) would not be significantly offset by the "ESTIMATED" 1 hour added to the sailing time -- I am guestimating that the route would take 2.25-2.5 hours to complete based on nominal routing with something equivalent of a V or C class.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Feb 26, 2009 2:54:20 GMT -8
It also allows a "catch up" in the schedule, which, given the ships that have been on this route, is often required.
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jun 19, 2009 11:31:27 GMT -8
I am really annoyed with this schedule. For 1 thing there is no 8am sailing to Tsawwassen which messes up my plan to do route 1 9 and 5 which means I have to take the 9:05am Cumberland to Mayne then hop on the Nanaimo from there to Long Harbour as the 7am is a bit early and the 9am is too late!
Also the Celebration and New West dont start service that day till 10am and end with the last sailing at 6pm which means they will be at the wrong terminals at the end of the day. Are they gonna deadhead back to their homeports that night as there is no 6am sailings the next day but there are 8am sailings with the regular schedule. Anyone know what's up with that???
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