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Post by guest on Jul 8, 2008 5:55:17 GMT -8
Actually, Kerry, Seaspan wages are about $5 higher for every position, deck and engine room. For every day of work is 1.2 days off. Talking about applying: before I would, I would try to find out what is like to work the in place. Surfing the net I came across www.ratemyemployer.com . Under "BC Ferry" and "Tourism,Travel and Passenger Transportation", I found few interesting entries. On the other hand, if you are qualified marine engineer looks like BC Ferries at the present is in need of 31 first and second class certificates. The Posta about BC Ferries are all complaints, so are most of the posts for the other companies listed. It would seem that web site is just a place for complainers. Not true measure of a company. PRobably a union set up to bash management. Like any of the BC Ferries union members could ever manage a wet paper bag. One thing I always say is the competition to BC Ferries have killed fewer people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 9:38:04 GMT -8
Yes I see your point about being younger to work down in the engine room.
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Post by Mike C on Jul 8, 2008 16:46:33 GMT -8
I hope they don't make you swim, 'cuz I'm naturally negatively buoyant, which would dash my hopes of ever working on board a BC Ferry. I think when it comes to performing in-water rescues, swimming would usually be an asset. Maybe you could be one of those people standing on the beach yelling "Go team" as hundreds onboard die and crews scramble to save others.
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Post by kerryssi on Jul 8, 2008 20:50:23 GMT -8
Other than the Seafarers exam and the physical constraints of being able to suit up in full firefighting gear and make your way up and down stairs there are no age restrictions until you reach ( I think) either 69 or 79. On shore you could stay much longer as the physical demands are less. However, after you have about 30 years in you are not going to gain anything by working. The pensions you could be collecting mean you are working for next to nothing.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jul 9, 2008 3:21:10 GMT -8
I hope they don't make you swim, 'cuz I'm naturally negatively buoyant, which would dash my hopes of ever working on board a BC Ferry. lol...you could apply to be an anchor!
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Post by Horror Bay slave on Jul 10, 2008 9:45:10 GMT -8
How long does it tipically take to get full time status with Bc Ferries? I heard it use to take like 8 years but it must be alot sooner then that now. Even at Seaspan, they are short crew and have had to tie up boats cause of it. I chatted with the manager of operations and he said right now, it is like instant promotion and your applying with the union and getting in. In response to your query there is more to know... I'm an employee at Horseshoe Bay. I'm actually a regular employee, but did have to work 12 yrs before I got that job. You will not be hired as a casual employee right away, as they hire seasonals now. That so that they can discard them like used up slaves at the end of the summer, you are laid off in Oct, the contract demands it. They will think nothing of calling you at nearly no notice and demand you drop everything (incl kids, doctors appts, etc) and get there instantly. If you are not home they put a black mark on you. You are compelled to be available all the time, but you have no pay for this. If you want a vacation forget it. You are basically an unpaid slave to them while on call. Additionally they will work you until midnight or later and if they are short in the a.m. they will call you to come in as well, that's a show up at 5 am! Work with no sleep to speak of. If you want to be a slave puppet on a very short leash, apply there. It's not a good job, there are a lot better ones out there, and I advise if you can find something else, do yourself a favor. If not, try it, but don't get your hopes up for any career with this company. In addition the union is hopeless as well. We have a 9 yr contract, unheard of in any other union contract in BC. 3 yrs is the norm. So forget negotiating as well as Vince Ready will write the rules. We have little or no leverage left now with the company, it is pathetic, and they are trying to exclude a great number of employees now. With that you have no union rep at all. We also no longer have a right to strike, which is the most prized union asset. This is a first. I'm not talking essential services, I'm talking right to strike. Deplorable any way you look at it. All I can say is don't hold any pipe dreams about this employer, as even with their own surveys on their employees which were independently ran, they failed horrifically in employee satisfaction. It was no surprise to any of us who worked there. The staff in general is very unhappy and the company morale is at it's lowest state ever. Everything runs on seniority as well so it really doesn't matter how hard you work, the loafer with a couple of days more seniority will always get the cherry, oh and every job in front of you. If you are a bottom feeder (a term used by the employees) you only will be offered the shifts that the more senior employees don't want. I've seen people not get time off for their families funerals, sick children, etc. Think before you leap is all I can say, and good luck at whatever you do.
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Post by kylefossett on Jul 10, 2008 11:22:06 GMT -8
I think somebody is bit angry. I know people that work for BC Ferries and they have complaints but nothing like what is mentioned above.
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Post by Horror Bay slave on Jul 10, 2008 14:02:54 GMT -8
I think somebody is bit angry. I know people that work for BC Ferries and they have complaints but nothing like what is mentioned above. Well I stand behind what I have said. I am not "angry", rather I am reflecting what I and my fellow friends on the ferries say every day. I don't know who your friends are but I'd be amazed to hear that anyone said much different. Ipsos Ried did a survey that had the same to say about morale. You can also check online at a website that rates employers. ratemyemployer.com In any event, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not angry, I was trying to help others see that while a shiny apple may look delicious it may be filled with worms. In closing, I think everyone can resolve their own opinions without being labelled as angry. Someone asked questions and I thought I'd answer, sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear. I am new to this forum, but thought it was open and unbiased, so didn't expect that response.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 10, 2008 15:37:00 GMT -8
I'm an employee at Horseshoe Bay. I'm actually a regular employee, but did have to work 12 yrs before I got that job. Hey, welcome here. A couple of questions, just for interest's sake: - Are you shore or ship? - If you work ship, which one, and what are the things that you like about the ship or the route (regardless of the company)? - You've worked for BC Ferries for more than 12 years, so what has kept you working there, in spite of the problems? Or are you at the point where because you've already invested 12+ years of your life there, that it would be foolish to start-over at square-one somewhere else? --------------------- You will not be hired as a casual employee right away, as they hire seasonals now. That so that they can discard them like used up slaves at the end of the summer, you are laid off in Oct, the contract demands it. Assuming that the "seasonals" are hired mainly for the extra sailings done in the summer, do you think that in say 5 years time, with more older employees lost through retirements, that this seasonal problem will change? ie. in 5 years time, would a person have a better chance of getting something permanent sooner during the off-season, instead of having to start as a seasonal-employee? Or is there already a waiting-list of seasonals with seniority who would snap-up those year-round jobs that will be soon vacated by the retirees? ---------------- Thanks for posting here, come back again and tell us more. [bonus points awarded for creative guest user-name]
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Post by kerryssi on Jul 10, 2008 17:36:20 GMT -8
As a 25 year employee I fully agree with what horror bay slave has to say I have experienced it and have seen others go through it. The comments on rate my employer are right on. I do not know what guest Guests problem or experience is but I doubt they have had any experience with BCFS except perhaps as one of the over 350 managers. When you have managers saying "No good idea ever comes from an employee", "The ferry is late because the employees are incompetent" and many other such ignorant remarks from managers who decided the Horseshoe Bay/ TSA ferry could stop at Saturna Island on its way past then you get an idea of the incompetence and arrogant attitude of management. As many of those posts state "It is a great job for the worst company in the world"
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Post by Doug on Jul 11, 2008 21:00:31 GMT -8
All you guys that have a big dream of being a BCF employee better get a job with the company and see how rosey it really is.
Like they say their is way too many chiefs and not enough indians. The company has more managers that don't have a clue what they are doing but paid a big wage for it.
Would I recommend working for the company NO.
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Post by Ferryman on Jul 12, 2008 8:50:48 GMT -8
I've been wondering this for a while now, but I don't want this to come across to anyone the wrong way.
If working for BC Ferries is really THAT bad, why don't you quit? In fact, why doesn't everyone who hates their job, try to prove a point to the rest of the province that the way they treat their employees is BS by all quiting at once? Ok, so you have to find a new job, big woop. There are TONZ of jobs available out there, especially in the construction industry. Maybe a massive loss of workers would prove a point, if you're not allowed to strike. I absolutely despise my job too, and I know what it's like to be treated unfairly. But fortunately with the seniority and position I have now, I have a bit of say in what happens. But I have to fight for it. Some of these things were as simple as earning OT, getting vacation time, having enough breaks in the day, and even being expected to work 7 days a week 8+ hours a day (remember no OT). Why don't I quit? Well I've been able to suck it up this long, and the pay has gotten better because I spoke up, so I've decided to stick around for a little while longer because I brought my point across to my boss.
I don't want anyone to take this a message that's 'talking down' to anybody. But it is more of a curiousity question asking "what if?" and "why?".
Cheers!
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Post by Doug on Jul 12, 2008 16:08:03 GMT -8
The reason why people stick with BCF is it is steady 365 year round employment. The economy in B.C. is falling fast we are looking at a 1980s recession all over again. You have to stick with the job you have even if you don't like it. Anybody in construction will be hurting same with tourism etc.
The realestate market is falling flat on its face. Forestry jobs are dissapearing faster than ever.
Don't beleive Gordon Campbell he spews so much crap and is distroying the province. The B.C. economy is in trouble so if you don't have a good job watch out you may become unemployed.
Anybody in the construction industry better have packed away the money in the last 3-4 years during this economy boom because its going to get bad for a few years.
If construction was gauranteed year round employement I would be still doing it. Seeing as its not and the future job outlook in the construction is very slow. The housing market is flooed with overpriced houses. It costs so much to build a new house nowwadays nobody can afford it.
Municipal and gov't jobs will be in a huge demand this year and next few years just like the 1980s.
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Post by kerryssi on Jul 13, 2008 11:18:45 GMT -8
A lot of the ferry jobs are in smaller communities where there simply isn't any other work available. In the larger areas employees who do not have too much time invested have quit and gone to other jobs. A lot of new employees find out the reality of slaving for BCFS and quit before they have much time invested. That is why there is such a shortage of crew on all areas. Many who have 15 or 20 years invested are just hanging on long enough to get their pensions. They will quit the day they qualify. Right now the only thing keeping the ferries going is the crews working double shifts, short changes and on their days off. When they burn out the ferries will stop.
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Post by ferrytraveller on Jul 13, 2008 15:11:59 GMT -8
well i suppose i will voice my opinion now.... Firstly working on the ship is great, its a team effort, everyone helps every. Second.. as for it being a bad place to work, i disagree, yes there is alot of politics, but there is in any job. I worked on the Great Lakes in the Marine Industry, let me tell you, that is silly. Working 6 months straight, a third officer, With a ticket, only get 25 an hour, I make that much as a deckhand with BC Ferries. Yah the head office might be out to lunch on some things, but you know what it really is.... ITS all the old employees who won't quit, who spent 10 or more years trying to get somewhere or get regular jobs with the company and are bitter !! All the younger Captains, Officers and other employees like the company for the work they actually have to do. Trust me, if you don't believe me, you can always find me working on the boats. This month, its the Alberni,
Lastly, as for work, there is no problem getting work, i know some guys getting lots of OT but some not getting many shifts too! So its not the companies fault per say that some people are getting short changed or double shifts, its actually crewing who call the same people over and over and others not at all. PS. i love double shifts and short change, more money for me.
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Post by kerryssi on Jul 13, 2008 16:28:54 GMT -8
Isn't crewing a management responsibility? The ships are fine, no more than the same BS you would find in any workplace. As has been said before " The best job for the worst company" The problems with BCFS are entirely created by management and can only be solved by a radical culling of the deadwood and incompetence in management.
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Post by Balfour on Jul 13, 2008 17:00:52 GMT -8
Isn't crewing a management responsibility? The ships are fine, no more than the same BS you would find in any workplace. As has been said before " The best job for the worst company" The problems with BCFS are entirely created by management and can only be solved by a radical culling of the deadwood and incompetence in management. Would you be willing to elaborate on your issues against BC Ferries' management? I am very curious as to what you think should specifically be done and what the specific problems are. I'm looking forward to hearing from you soon
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Post by Scott on Jul 13, 2008 22:21:38 GMT -8
Thanks ferrytraveller for your perspective. While I'm glad people feel free to share their bad stories working for BC Ferries on this forum, it's good to hear from someone who likes working for them. Like most experiences, people are more likely to talk when things go bad rather than when things go smoothly.
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Post by kerryssi on Jul 14, 2008 8:26:22 GMT -8
Actually I have in various posts. The list of problems with management is far too long to post here. In my opinion and in my experience....just a few of the problems as I see them are..............The majority of management got their positions (not jobs...if they were jobs they would be expected to know something and do something) through government patronage or through friends who were already in management. Do you know what "Empire Building" is? It is rife in BCFS. It is when a manager tries to build his department into the largest and therefor most important department. The more warm bodies under his control the more status he has. This means warfare between departments as these managers each compete for budget money and often the budget goes out the window. Little of the money actualy filters down to where it is needed. How do incompetent people get promoted? A study was done to find out. It seems incompetent people can not recognize competence in others. It only takes one incompetent manager to start a flood if promotions of incompetent people. They are impressed by sycophants and brown nosers and that is who they promote. These people then promote others of the same ilk. Far too many of the managers walked in to a position through their friends without the faintest idea of how a ferry system works and they are the ones who make the decisions. Management treats the employees as the enemy. It is very much an "Industrial Age England" attitude with management. Employees are disposable and are to be treated with disdain and paid a pittance. A normal company has one manager for every 50 employees. Japanese companies have one manager for every 75 employees, which is considered under managed. American companies have one manager for every 25 employees, this is considered very over managed. The last figures I had (which are now about 7 years out of date) showed BCFC with one manager for every 11 employees. I am informed the number of managers has steadily increased since then while the number of employees has not.
Quotes
"There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ships or their crews. The entire problem lies with management and the first thing I am going to do is clean house"......Admiral Collier, CEO BCFC He said this to me on the bridge of the Nanaimo. Unfortunately he died suddenly before he could act. '"There is nothing wrong with the ships, employees or their union. The entire problem lies with management. Right now it occupies three office buildings, when I am through it will fit into two rooms." Bob Lingwood CEO BCFC. Said to me in one of our meetings. Unfortunately he was fired by the government when he started to act. "I have never seen a company where the management hates its employees the way this company does" Bob Lingwood to me at another meeting.
These are of course only my opinions and observations over 25 years with BCFC. If you want me to go into all the stupid decisions and bad attitudes of management I simply do not have the time.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 14, 2008 9:04:41 GMT -8
After the strike, how long is it until a new agreement can be made? Why did the union even agree to giving up the right to strike? If they are complaining about not having enough employees, why do they not clean their own house when this has been a problem for ages? There needs to be responsible people and there should not be so many people managing. It is a hit against the payroll and a waste of the subsidy dollars the government gives and also promotes very sharp fare increases. 20% is just ridiculous and if management was downsized to a 1 to 50 ratio, then how much would the system save?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 14, 2008 11:34:42 GMT -8
"I have never seen a company where the management hates its employees the way this company does" Bob Lingwood to me at another meeting. Great quote, Kerry. I've seen bits of that type of attitude in various organizations, usually because management holds onto grudges/hurts from things that were said/done during labour disputes. Pretty soon, all that ill-will becomes the dominant culture, and then it's tough to eradicate as it become too pervasive. So here's a question, Kerry: is some of this bad-attitude a generational thing with management? ie. will it disappear once some of them retire? Or are the older managers teaching the younger mangers "everything that they know...."?
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Post by kerryssi on Jul 14, 2008 15:22:21 GMT -8
Coastal maniac.....Since before the last strike there has been no agreement. Binding arbitration was agreed upon because the Liberals were poised to legislate any agreement out of existence, as they did with the nurses. The union never gave up the right to strike, it was legislated out from under them. Vince Ready, who was the arbitrator, gave the government everything they wanted and severely shafted the ferry workers. He also wrote himself into all future decisions. The union continues to fight for the workers but Campbell and Ready hold all the cards. Ready dances to Campbells tune, so much for impartiality. Flugel.......As per my post, the incompetent managers are promoting those who they like and I can not see it ending until an outside force, such as public outcry, forces the government to act. Unfortunately the Campbell government could care less about the people of B.C. as long as his supporters and friends in big business can continue to rake in the loot. There are a few, very few, competent managers but they usually learn very quickly that they are a minority and to keep their heads down. When I was on the Southern Gulf Islands Advisory Committee we asked the planning department, which was a very large department with several managers, offices, assistants etc, for their 10 year plan. They did not have one. We asked for their 5 year plan. They did not have one. We asked for any plans they had, They had none. We told them we wanted to see a 5 year plan. It took them 3 years to come up with a few pages they called a plan which clearly showed they did not have a clue how the ferries operated. I often wondered why a department called "New Ships Construction" with all it's managers, assistants, offices etc even existed when they had not built a new ship in decades. That is why there is such a panic now. They should have been building ships every few years.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 14, 2008 15:37:38 GMT -8
Thanks for the info kerryssi. It does sound like with too much management, money in fares is being wasted on those who do not do the job they are supposed to. Hiring from inside has also led to bad managing of the system and it has now gotten out of control. Since Mr. Campbell seems to like to undermine the transit systems, I believe the islanders should point the finger at him.
Again, thank you since I did not understand what the terms were after the strike occurred and I feel that there needs to be intervention in order to stabilize the system. Will that happen? probably not. It's like wishing there were no major political parties.
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
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Post by Nick on Jul 14, 2008 16:19:34 GMT -8
Part of the problem is that they do not promote from within. I wish I could direct you to a job posting for a terminal manager's position at Horseshoe Bay that I saw a few weeks ago. One of the requirements: A university degree in marketing, or other financial discipline.
There was no stipulation about any marine experience, or training, whatsoever. That is why they have incompetent managers.
Once the BCF site comes back online I will try to find it.
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Neil
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Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Jul 14, 2008 16:36:23 GMT -8
Part of the problem is that they do not promote from within. That's very common in the corporate world, especially with employers in strongly unionized environments. Companies which do not trust their employees' fervor for the corporate agenda will try to change the 'culture', by bringing in more amenable personalities from elsewhere to fill management or supervisory positions where they don't have to observe contractual hiring protocols.
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