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Post by Ferryman on Jun 27, 2007 19:25:07 GMT -8
I just happened to come across this article, while reading my hometown of Ladysmiths weekly newspaper over the net. This article just so happens to have one of our forum members interviewed, royalroadscaptain. As a courier, Gabriola Island resident Jeremy Baker figures he uses the ferry at least 750 times a year. By Toby Gorman The News Bulletin Jun 26 2007Gabriola Island resident Jeremy Baker takes the MV Quinsam, the lone ferry link from Gabriola to Nanaimo, at least 750 times a year. A recent research paper suggests that the ferry plays an important role in the community’s social patterns, and that the ferry itself is a floating community.
The lone ferry that connects Gabriola Island to Nanaimo is more than just a ferry for many island residents – it’s a floating community.
The MV Quinsam also dictates the social cadence of the residents, a paper written by Royal Roads University graduate Jaigris Hodson and Ladysmih-based Royal Roads professor Phillip Vannini suggests.
The 14-page paper, which took months to research, is called Island Time and will be published in the summer edition of the Canadian Journal of Communication.
The Gabriola study is just the tip of the iceberg for Vannini, who plans to cover every route B.C. Ferries offers to learn about the unique cultural idiosyncrasies created by a life dependent on the ferry. Once he’s travelled the entire circuit he plans to compile the stories he accumulates into a book. Currently he’s in Bella Bella, about a third of the way through his quest to travel every route.
“To me, the ferry has become an intellectual playground,” says Vannini. “You get to see who’s sleeping, who’s looking for whales and who’s smoking a joint out on the deck. It’s always the best theatre stage in town.”
To the residents of Gabriola Island, the Quinsam is a security guard, a clock, a floating community hall and an old friend, says Vannini and Hodson’s recent report.
Islanders interact with the ferry and its schedules, pace and adapt to deviations from the public norm in order to make their own time. Therefore, missing the Quinsam or being on a late ferry changes Gabriola Islanders definition of the meanings of schedules and objective clock time.
In other words, island time, often considered as an I’ll-get-there-when-I-get-there mentality, is the result of being at the mercy of a ferry that is often late and adapting personal schedules accordingly.
The essence of island time is slowing down to appreciate the important things in life, says the report.
If an islander misses a ferry, it means an opportunity to relax and socialize. For an urban resident, missing the ferry means lost opportunity and stress.
“I think when you refer to island time, I believe many people live here for that very reason,” said Jeremy Baker, a Gabriola resident and ferry commuter for 35 years.
Baker is a courier and delivers to homes and businesses on Gabriola. He estimates he crosses on the Quinsam more than 750 times a year.
Nanaimo has its own adherence to time, but here its less stringent, he said. If I miss a ferry I don’t worry about it because it really doesn’t make a difference. I’ll get the next one in an hour.
With 16 daily crossings, the Quinsam is a busy boat.
But Baker says most people who use the ferry regularly understand that mishaps occur that cause the boat to be late. In fact, in 35 years the only time Baker got irritated by the schedule was during a particularly inconvenient wildcat strike.
“It’s not like the sky train, it’s understood a lot of things can happen to make the ferry late,” said Baker. “So flexibility is built in to people’s schedules.”
The 20-minute crossing, says Baker, gives commuters a chance to socialize, read the bulletin boards, do some work or just watch the familiar scenery pass by.
“I admit I do have friends I wouldn’t have otherwise met by taking the ferry,” said Baker. “It’s hard not to when you run into the same people every day.”
The community on Gabriola is changing, however. Baker sees more and more people he doesn’t know on the ferry, many of them with Alberta licence plates.
He also believes the Quinsam, at some point in the future, will need to be upgraded to accommodate an increase in passenger and commuter traffic.
For now, islanders will continue to see the Quinsam as the pendulum on a clock, keeping time for the islanders and dictating the social pace with each crossing.
If Vannini has learned one thing from his research, it’s that the less frequently the ferry travels, the slower the pace of life in a given island community.
“Every island has it’s own time zone,” says Vannini. www.ladysmithchronicle.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=18&cat=46&id=1013434&more=0
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Post by Scott on Feb 17, 2007 17:41:16 GMT -8
Does anyone have any comments on the relationship between Comox and Powell River? I understand that the connection pre-dates BC Ferries, with coastal steamships and the Ministry of Highways ferries operating between the two cities.
There doesn't seem to be an obvious reason why there needs to be a ferry service between the two cities. Powell River has ferry connections to the mainland, Comox has obvious road connections to the rest of the Island. I've head though that the historic ferry connections have helped create business and personal relationships between the two towns.
It is simply because the marine connection between the two towns was established before a reliable connection to Vancouver? Even so, it's interesting that it still continues.
One example linking the two cities is that from 1979-88 they were linked by an electoral district. Powell River is still linked to the North Island electoral district. Also linking Powell River to the Island is that Malaspina University has a campus there.
Any insight or additional information that could be added to this subject would be appreciated!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 17, 2007 17:53:49 GMT -8
Good topic:
I do know that there's some controversy over where the current BC Ferry should be based out of. Powell River has lobbied for years for the ship to be PR-based....in order to get a more favourable schedule for Powell Riverites to do day trips to the Island.
So why is the Comox-PR route necessary?
Well it does benefit the Powell River residents mostly, as it allows them easier & quicker access to hospitals in Campbell River & Comox (trust me on that one, my PR in-laws have all had surgeries done on the Island).....and it allows for shopping & other business to be done in the Comox Valley.
There's also a tourism spin-off.....but that's usually an argument for any money-losing ferry route (such as Discovery Coast).
I suspect that the route exists today simply because it started years ago, and it would be politically difficult to end it. As well, there are obvious benefits to the Powell River residents to have this route...as I've explained above.
As it stands, it is a pretty bare-bones service, with only 4 trips each way each day, and an old ship used.......this route will always have an old ship on it !
Does the Upper Sunshine Coast population warrant such a ferry service, which allows them easier access to a larger business/services area.....or should the residents take the 2 existing ferries down to North Vancouver to access these services?
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Feb 17, 2007 18:47:16 GMT -8
Well think of this in terms, if you wanted to go to Powell River in summer on a Friday from Nanaimo, would you want to sit in three ferry lines perhaps with sailing waits? or would you rather drive an hour and a half north and take one ferry?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 17, 2007 19:09:13 GMT -8
To answer Politicalguy's comment:
Yes, for a summer trip from Nanaimo to PR, the Comox ferry makes sense....and is a whole lot more convenient.
But how many peoples' convenience is needed in order to justify a whole ferry route?
It sounds similar to the justification for the Bremerton ferry....except that there are more people in Bremerton than in Powell River.
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Post by Curtis on Feb 17, 2007 22:50:50 GMT -8
It's a good route with a good sized ferry. Without it we'd be paying alot more to take the ferries to Vancouver then to Vancouver Island. It makes sense to have a route like that. But it could have more sailings. Maybe if they cut the waits in the terminals it would be feasable. 5 Round Trips in the Summer, at peak times, and on weekends, 4 Round Trips in the Winter. Would also be nice if they berthed the ferry here in Powell River, Except it would be quite gruelling getting up at 5 in the morning to catch the ferry getting home a bit later at night would be nice though. Still, the route is quite fine the way it is.
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Post by Scott on Feb 17, 2007 23:21:16 GMT -8
Curtis,
How do you think your life would change if one day there was no Comox - Powell River ferry? Think practically, not just from the point of a ferry enthusiast. Would it have a major impact on you or a minor impact? Why do you and your friends/relatives take that ferry as often as you do?
Is the ferry (or has it ever been) used much by any industries realted to the mill in Powell River? Or do most of the supplies come and go some other way?
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Post by Neil on Feb 18, 2007 0:09:52 GMT -8
Does the Upper Sunshine Coast population warrant such a ferry service, which allows them easier access to a larger business/services area.....or should the residents take the 2 existing ferries down to North Vancouver to access these services? I think the fact that it would be pretty much impossible for Powell River residents to access medical and other important services in the Vancouver area and get back home the same day justifies the service to Little River.
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Post by hergfest on Feb 18, 2007 1:11:33 GMT -8
If the Burnaby tied up in PR, wouldn't that interfere with the Texada boat?
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Feb 18, 2007 5:28:35 GMT -8
If the Burnaby tied up in PR, wouldn't that interfere with the Texada boat? I believe the LR-PR boat can, and has been, moored along the end of the government wharf, if necessary. PR Teen, can you confirm this? Also, if the first boat leaves at ~5AM as Curtis states, there would be no interference with the Texada schedule, except that there would be no way for someone from Texada to make the first sailing without stay overnight in Powell River. Same problem already exists for the early morning Saltery Bay run. Does the Upper Sunshine Coast population warrant such a ferry service, which allows them easier access to a larger business/services area.....or should the residents take the 2 existing ferries down to North Vancouver to access these services? I think the fact that it would be pretty much impossible for Powell River residents to access medical and other important services in the Vancouver area and get back home the same day justifies the service to Little River. Powell River has a modern hospital constructed less than ten years ago, though, unfortunately, due it's relative remoteness, they have significant trouble maintaining specialists. Thirty years ago, when they were in the old building, and the paper mill was running full tilt, this was not such a problem. In many cases, people still have to go to Vancouver to get needed medical attention when services are not readily available on the Island. Curtis, How do you think your life would change if one day there was no Comox - Powell River ferry? Think practically, not just from the point of a ferry enthusiast. Would it have a major impact on you or a minor impact? Why do you and your friends/relatives take that ferry as often as you do? Is the ferry (or has it ever been) used much by any industries realted to the mill in Powell River? Or do most of the supplies come and go some other way? Hijacking the question to Curtis : Like Flugel Horn, my PR based relatives use the ferry to access medical care. However, they also travel to Vancouver to do the same because of a lack of specialists on the central/northern Island. My family also uses the ferry to visit friends and relatives who have settled on the island, as well as for shopping. We did most of our shopping in Powell River as I grew up, but two exceptions were new vehicles, and food for livestock. The Co-Op in Courtney was enough of a savings to justify taking the trip. Back in the day, I went to Victoria this way for a school trip, but since it was on the old Island Hwy, it might have been faster to go through Vancouver! ;D The mill has been typically supplied by its own ships, if supplies can't be loaded into a truck. There is a possibility Mac-Blo could have transferred parts between Campbell River and Powell River if spares were needed at one of the mills. I would be more inclined to look at the logging industry as a user of this ferry, transporting trucks and equipment from one cut block to another.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 18, 2007 8:53:39 GMT -8
Does the Circle Route that BC Ferry promotes increase the tourist traffic in summer on the route? Maybe hard to tell what difference it makes.
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Post by Curtis on Feb 18, 2007 8:58:25 GMT -8
Any change in the Comox Ferry Schedule could easily affect the Texada Ferry. I believe the LR-PR boat can, and has been, moored along the end of the government wharf, if necessary. PR Teen, can you confirm this? And to clear this up, as far as my meory goes I don't thing there's any place along the government wharf other then the Ferry dock that the Ferry can dock...if you want vehicles aboard How do you think your life would change if one day there was no Comox - Powell River ferry? Think practically, not just from the point of a ferry enthusiast. Would it have a major impact on you or a minor impact? Probably it wouldn't be much of an impact, because if we're still connected by the Ferries to the Mainland then we have some type of connection to the rest of the world. Why do you and your friends/relatives take that ferry as often as you do? The only reasons we'd take the ferry would be if we had something important to do such as a doctors appointment/surgery, or something else such as Skiing up at Mt. Washington, Or one of the key reasons we go over there, to go to the Toyota dealership so our cars can get their annual servicing, Or People could take the ferry for events such as music festivals, sport events, etc. etc. etc. Is the ferry (or has it ever been) used much by any industries realted to the mill in Powell River? Or do most of the supplies come and go some other way? Often most of the supplies of food and materials get here via the Ferry. There's other ways but that's probably the first option.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 18, 2007 9:40:37 GMT -8
Former Social-Credit MLA Harold Long has a barge-freight business that services the upper Sunshine Coast. This is maybe similar in how Seaspan moves commercial traffic to Nanaimo/Capital-Region......similar in that it moves items that would otherwise go on the ferries...or that would be too big for the ferries.
Any modular-homes destined for Powell River used to go via Harold Long's barges......
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Post by Mike C on Feb 18, 2007 15:25:33 GMT -8
Slightly off-topic, but part of the conversation nonetheless.
Every year, as almost every Powell Riverian and Comoxish person knows, there's something called the Filburg Festival. It's a time when all the middle-aged ladies from the North-Island and Powell River region gather to share crafts, home-made goods, etc.
This is also a time when there are sailing waits for the Queen of Burnaby.
Last year's festival, brought hundreds of people to the ferry lineups of Little River. I know this because I showed up riding my bike, and there was not enough room inside the terminal for all. About 8 or 9 vehicles were declined after the boat left, and the Queen of Burnaby was overloaded with, again, Filburgians.
The festival has somewhat improved the relationship between the similar communities.
I hate to say it Curtis, but I think we have more stuff in Courtenay and Comox then you in Powell River and Westview. And that also helps; the convenience for the Sunshine Coasties to come over and feel at home to the readily available services.
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Feb 19, 2007 7:13:52 GMT -8
Any change in the Comox Ferry Schedule could easily affect the Texada Ferry. I believe the LR-PR boat can, and has been, moored along the end of the government wharf, if necessary. PR Teen, can you confirm this? And to clear this up, as far as my meory goes I don't thing there's any place along the government wharf other then the Ferry dock that the Ferry can dock...if you want vehicles aboard Yes, you are right, the Comox ferry already affects the Texada schedule with the Texada ferry having to stand off while the Comox ferry completes loading/unloading (or is it the other way around? I forget! so that people from Texada can make the connection in both directions. My point was, if the Comox ferry was berthed at Westview, the ship would depart before the first Texada service run. There might be a conflict on the last run of the day, however. Tying up at the end of the government wharf could only be for overnight mooring. The ship would have to be moved into the berth to load/unload. I do know ships can be moored there as that is where they used to (still?) tie up the Coast Guard and Navy ships during Sea Fair, including some large supply ships. I wasn't sure if they had ever tied up a BC Ferry there; for some reason I seem to remember them doing that on one or more occasions, but I might not be remembering correctly. Anyways, looking at the schedules, the conflict would occur on the last run from Little River, and scheduling modifications and a standoff might reasonably address this concern. What would be really cool is if the first and last runs of the day were three pointers with a stop at Texada to pick up, and offload. I know this was tried before with limited success, but it was a great convenience. Does the Circle Route that BC Ferry promotes increase the tourist traffic in summer on the route? Maybe hard to tell what difference it makes. If someone had access to the ticket stats, this would be pretty easy to figure out. The Circle Pass would likely be recorded as a separate item, as BC Ferries would be very interested in knowing how effective this marketing scheme is. To and from trips from the Island to the mainland wouldn't be affected too much, as the Circle Pass really wasn't designed to address them so much as to increase tourist traffic in the coastal towns along the Island and the Sunshine coast.
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Feb 19, 2007 7:36:31 GMT -8
Former Social-Credit MLA Harold Long has a barge-freight business that services the upper Sunshine Coast. This is maybe similar in how Seaspan moves commercial traffic to Nanaimo/Capital-Region......similar in that it moves items that would otherwise go on the ferries...or that would be too big for the ferries. Any modular-homes destined for Powell River used to go via Harold Long's barges...... And they often shipped the miscellaneous bits by truck via the ferries. I was talking to a retired truck once who did a run to Texada for a modular home company. He had just pick up a brand new tractor and was to pick up a trailer destine for Texada. He noticed that, for some reason, the company he was picking up from had already tarped his trailer, so he hooked up and left. And cursed his brand new tractor for its lack of power. Up and over the North Shore, over the Langdale ferry, across the Sunshine Coast, and through to Powell River, he's cursing. Then he rolls onto the ferry in Westview...and near overloads the ship (I think it was the Tenaka or the Tachek on at the time by his description). Finally he decides he better take a look under that tarp. Lo and behold, the somebody at the modular company decided to save some time by shipping all the bags of cement for the foundation with the load. Hmmm, the new truck wasn't such a dog after all.
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Post by kylefossett on Feb 19, 2007 15:32:14 GMT -8
Former Social-Credit MLA Harold Long has a barge-freight business that services the upper Sunshine Coast. This is maybe similar in how Seaspan moves commercial traffic to Nanaimo/Capital-Region......similar in that it moves items that would otherwise go on the ferries...or that would be too big for the ferries. Any modular-homes destined for Powell River used to go via Harold Long's barges...... And they often shipped the miscellaneous bits by truck via the ferries. I was talking to a retired truck once who did a run to Texada for a modular home company. He had just pick up a brand new tractor and was to pick up a trailer destine for Texada. He noticed that, for some reason, the company he was picking up from had already tarped his trailer, so he hooked up and left. And cursed his brand new tractor for its lack of power. Up and over the North Shore, over the Langdale ferry, across the Sunshine Coast, and through to Powell River, he's cursing. Then he rolls onto the ferry in Westview...and near overloads the ship (I think it was the Tenaka or the Tachek on at the time by his description). Finally he decides he better take a look under that tarp. Lo and behold, the somebody at the modular company decided to save some time by shipping all the bags of cement for the foundation with the load. Hmmm, the new truck wasn't such a dog after all. so that is pretty good as he is supposed to have in his log books what his weight is. good thing he didn't have to go through a scale *edit was just moving my comment out of the middle of the quote to the end. started typing after the first quote box*
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Feb 19, 2007 17:50:55 GMT -8
so that is pretty good as he is supposed to have in his log books what his weight is. good thing he didn't have to go through a scaleAnd they often shipped the miscellaneous bits by truck via the ferries. I was talking to a retired truck once who did a run to Texada for a modular home company. He had just pick up a brand new tractor and was to pick up a trailer destine for Texada. He noticed that, for some reason, the company he was picking up from had already tarped his trailer, so he hooked up and left. And cursed his brand new tractor for its lack of power. Up and over the North Shore, over the Langdale ferry, across the Sunshine Coast, and through to Powell River, he's cursing. Then he rolls onto the ferry in Westview...and near overloads the ship (I think it was the Tenaka or the Tachek on at the time by his description). Finally he decides he better take a look under that tarp. Lo and behold, the somebody at the modular company decided to save some time by shipping all the bags of cement for the foundation with the load. Hmmm, the new truck wasn't such a dog after all. Pretty much goes unsaid he should have scaled the truck! The only permenant scale he passed was the Surrey scale, and they were obviously closed. I would suspect that is the only reason he got away with it.
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 19, 2007 18:56:07 GMT -8
So Powell River has two ferry routes - one north-south toward Vancouver and the other east-west toward Vancouver Island. Salt Spring Island has three ferry routes for a permanent population of about 10,000. If it can have three ferry routes totaling around 24 sailings per day why even consider the 'necessity' for Powell River to have two routes with a total of 12 sailings daily. If BC ferries started to chop routes they would be compelled to spread the misery around.
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Post by Scott on Feb 19, 2007 22:19:42 GMT -8
LOL, forgive me for laughing a bit. I understand this new section of the forum is a little departure from the normal topics discussed. So I could have predicted that this topic to discuss the "impact" of ferries on the relationship between Powell River and Comox has somewhat gone the way of "where will they tie up the Queen of Burnaby" and "why would BC Ferries cut this route?" Not to discount all the replies - there have been several very insightful comments so far and I've learned a few things so far! So let's keep the comments coming, and the Queen of Burnaby doing her 4 round trips per day:)
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 19, 2007 22:29:43 GMT -8
My late father-in-law lived in Powell River for most of his life, as a farmer.
His best friend from school-days lived his adult life in Courtenay, on a dairy farm.
The 2 would enjoy the Courtenay fall-fair together, every year, until their old-age prevented it. The Comox-PR ferry was their connection so that they could visit each year.
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I think that another connection of Powell River to Comox Valley is the geography.....that the Westview neighbourhood in PR looks west towards the Comox Valley. That simple fact of staring at the Vancouver Island mountains might be a contributing factor to the connection between these 2 locales.
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(yes John, this is intended to be my remediation post)
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Feb 20, 2007 8:29:53 GMT -8
LOL, forgive me for laughing a bit. I understand this new section of the forum is a little departure from the normal topics discussed. So I could have predicted that this topic to discuss the "impact" of ferries on the relationship between Powell River and Comox has somewhat gone the way of "where will they tie up the Queen of Burnaby" and "why would BC Ferries cut this route?" Not to discount all the replies - there have been several very insightful comments so far and I've learned a few things so far! So let's keep the comments coming, and the Queen of Burnaby doing her 4 round trips per day:) Yes, it did digress a bit didn't it? It is interesting to look at the future of the route and how changes could impact the communities served, but that could be discussed separately. Another trip I remember taking that involved the PR-LR route was when my father first started teaching at Oceanview. He was coaching the girls' volley ball team and they made it into the district finals. I was about eight at the time, and was considered mature enough to accompany my dad and the team on the trip to Nanaimo. My mom and my younger brother had to stay home, and I was the big kid who could look out for myself. I think the people in Powell River have a stronger tie to the people on the island (namely Comox/Courtenay) than the Sunshine Coast. This might have something to do with the CP Princess fleet. The only large population centers serviced at that time would have been Sechelt, Powell River and Comox. I read somewhere that Powell River had a once a week direct connection with Comox and three connecting trips to Vancouver which would have serviced Sechelt. On the north/south service your ultimate destination would likely have been Vancouver, however, on the east/west service, you were destine for Comox. And, if your business couldn't be taken care of in less than a day, you were staying for a week. As Flugel Horn's last post illustrated, lifestyles would likely have been similar, too. People would have been more comfortable with the locals in Comox than in Vancouver, where the hustle and bustle of everyday life would have likely conflicted with the slower pace lifestyle of the rural coast. (Kind of like today's islanders on "island time" ). I would be very interested in having royalroadscaptain weigh in on this.
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Post by royalroadscaptain on Feb 20, 2007 14:53:10 GMT -8
Here I am, BCinNJ--happily setting papers to mark aside to jump in In all truth, however, I'm learning more from this discussion than I can contribute to. I haven't covered that route yet; I'm hoping to do it later in the summer or early fall. As a general comment I wonder how much the "highway" factor plays into this. What I mean is this: ferry routes are in principle public marine highways. Highways sometime connect communities even though historically comercial links between them have been scarce. Hence they are put in place to develop commercial partnerships that aren't there/wouldn't be there... Sonmething similar can be said about the route connecting Brentwood Bay and Mill Bay: what's the point of having a ferry there--one rightly wonders at first glance--when you can actually drive from point A to B pretty much in the same amount of time? Well with Brentwood Bay-Mill Bay the point is that old trucks and cars that can't make the Malahat can get on the ferry. With the Powell River-Comox/Courtenay link something similar might have beein going on at the time: the road to Vancouver from Powell River is pretty iffy and commercial links to the island would seem more efficient. But I'm speculating. It's a heck of a good question to ask, John. And one could even take the question farther and ask: why are there no services between two places when it would seem logical for those services to be there?!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 18, 2007 18:15:56 GMT -8
Here is a story from "Powell River Living Magazine", March 2007, Volume 2, #2. The title is: "The Ferryland of BC" The author is: George Campbell Mr. Campbell used to write a column in the old newspaper "Powell River News". ....and here's the last part of the article:
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Post by Scott on Mar 19, 2007 23:02:59 GMT -8
Another story from the Queen of Sidney:) Thanks for sharing that article with us.
One common thread amoung many of the comments so far is the health/hospital issue in Powell River which is something I hadn't really thought of before.
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