Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Mar 28, 2008 21:42:46 GMT -8
Of all the regular contributors to this forum, I don't believe there is one who is a commuter, or who takes the ferry often just for the transportation aspect. There are people on here who ride often, but who hardly ever actually get off and explore where the ferries go. We lack the perspective of someone for whom ferry riding is just a commute, like a bus or car ride, and who sees the trip as time that could be better spent doing something else. This section of the forum is almost dead, because it has little to appeal to the majority of forum members, who aren't really interested in the broader role ferries play in society, outside of their fan appeal.
To many people, a ferry ride is a necessary interlude on the way to doing something much more interesting. Look at the large number of people who snooze on the car deck on the major routes, never coming upstairs. I'm not judging them; I just think it would provide an interesting counterpoint to get their views on 'ferry time', as opposed to the more enthusiastic outlook most of us forum members have.
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Post by royalroadscaptain on Mar 30, 2008 20:19:58 GMT -8
The question of whether riding the ferry over time (for commuters, small island residents, etc.) lessens the more positive aspects of catching the ferry has always been an interesting one for me, and I always ask it everywhere I go for my research.
While I'm not tracking numbers like one would for a survey I can say with great confidence that for a lot of commuters (daily, weekly, bi-monthly, etc.) the ferry ride continues to remain appealing over time. Many people tell me it's a time for themselves to relax, to read a book peacefully, to enjoy the view without having to drive, or to visit with friends and neighbors. Call riding the ferries a way of making island time, if you will.
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 18, 2007 23:20:55 GMT -8
Heh, youtube has a fresh batch of Ferries videos out in cyberspace right now.
This one which was released a few days ago, has caught my eye. It shows the views of Galiano residents explaining the impact of the Ferries in their lives. Though it is 3 years old now, it's still neat to watch. This was filmed just days before the rebuild of the berth at Sturdies Bay.
Anyways, enjoy.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 21, 2007 19:48:42 GMT -8
Wow, what a great documentary film. Thanks for posting that, Chris.
I liked the back-and-forth on the "not adequate notice of dock closure" shown.......I guess that "adequate notice" is a relative term.
I also liked the time-lapse of the Nanny arriving/departing from Sturdies Bay.
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Post by Curtis on Mar 3, 2007 22:50:12 GMT -8
A very nice little video, Thanks for bringing it to our attention
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Post by Scott on Feb 20, 2007 23:32:17 GMT -8
First, a call to those familiar with Nanaimo - the longer the better:) I've had trouble finding anything concrete on Nanaimo's development over the past 50 years or so, but I have a little idea of how it has gone. So if you know Nanaimo - share your knowledge:) The question: Have ferries contributed to Nanaimo's suburban development and downtown deterioration? Last week I walked partway along Nanaimo's harbourfront walkway - and downtown Nanaimo seems finally to be seeing some revitalization. But for the last number of years (not sure how long ago it started), it seems commercial development has mostly taken place north of downtown, along the old Island Highway. Rutherford Mall, Country Club Mall, Woodgrove Mall, Superstore, Home Depot, hotels, motels, car dealerships, fast food restaurants, industrial complexes, big-box stores... etc. Consequently, downtown Nanaimo seemed pretty dead - with little new commercial investment. For the longest time Nanaimo's waterfront was dominated by a string of abandoned buildings (there still are a few). Anyways - to the ferries and my argument which you can either debunk or strengthen. I think Nanaimo's commercial and urban development has been strongly influenced by the location of its ferry terminals. Until the 1960s, most of the ferries coming into Nanaimo docked downtown, right? All traffic had to go through downtown Nanaimo, bringing business and money with it. Once BC Ferries monopolized the market, the main entrance to Nanaimo became Departure Bay and the terminals downtown had no use any more. So people just got in their cars and drove to where they had to go. And with the population growing in towns north of Nanaimo, most of the traffic headed in that direction - but not through downtown anymore. The businesses simply followed the new traffic flow - out of downtown and to the northern edges of the city. More recently we have the same thing happening in South Nanaimo. Duke Point has been open for 10 years now, bringing island-bound traffic to south Nanaimo and communities like Ladysmith and Chemainus. Even more traffic taken from central Nanaimo, and now even more development at the edges of Nanaimo, this time to the South. Northwest Properties and the local first nations band are in the middle of planning a 726 acre community with major residential and retail development. I see that finally, downtown Nanaimo is slowly being revitalized - although how much of it is commercial investment and how much of it is government invested is probably debateable. Downtown Nanaimo's heritage and arts sector is promoted, and finally there seems to be some real construction on the waterfront. But with BC Ferries sending traffic to the north and south of downtown Nanaimo, is there much hope that downtown and central Nanaimo will be revitalized in any real way? And if it can't be revitalized, is it possible for a passenger ferry like HarbourLynx to be successful? If you read this far - congratulations and please post your thoughts!
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Post by royalroadscaptain on Feb 21, 2007 16:20:18 GMT -8
John, I think it certainly played a role. To boot, the new Highway entirely dodges downtown, while converging right at the very edge of Woodgrove Mall, up north. That too takes a great chunk of traffic away from downtown.
To boot Nanaimo like many other small and larger cities has undergone a pretty deep movement of suburbanization. That's where (now more and more limited) free space is for real estate development.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 21, 2007 19:52:36 GMT -8
Counterpoint:
Ferry traffic coming into Downtown Nanaimo would make downtown too congested. There's already enough congestion on Hwy19A by Brechin Rd, when a Route-2 ferry arrives.
Downtown Nanaimo used to be horrible before 1997 (and the opening of the Parkway bypass), as Terminal Ave was jammed with through traffic, making in-town driving painful.
So, while bypasses and suburban ferry terminals take traffic out of downtown, this has both good & bad points.
Which brings us to the history of the FastCats, and their intention of reducing impact to "short pulses" of traffic discharge.
Re Island traffic on Nanaimo's urban roads, there's been a large general increase since the 1970's days of the Princess of Vancouver docking downtown.
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Post by queenofcowichan on Mar 2, 2007 18:04:03 GMT -8
My 2 cents worth:
The Port Place Mall directly across from the Nanaimo Harbour terminal gets a lot of buisness from the Gabriola ferry. Quite often I see people who have thier place in the pre-board lineups walk over to the mall to kill some time, much like Horseshoe Bay. Especially during the peak periods such as the 3:45pm trip from Nanaimo which is normally a overload. Some people may go into the mall to shop, have a coffee or just wait out the 1 hour it takes the Quinsam to make her return trip.
As for Departure Bay, I have seen lineups during peak hours half way to Downtown especially in the Summer.
Now the New Highway itself I cant say for Nanaimo but for places north of Parksville like Qualicum Bay, Bowser etc, it has been devistating for buisness. You will notice that the Old store and Gas station near Horne Lake has been dismantled. Which is a direct result of the Highway.
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Post by Scott on Jul 7, 2007 22:53:11 GMT -8
Today, after sailing through the Gulf Islands once again, I've been thinking about ferries and how they create and sustain communities. A lot of this is discussed in Professor Vannini's articles.
When I observe people on ferries... I notice that the Islanders usually know each other. Like Mr. Vannini, I have a daughter (well, two now;) who is little, personable, and cute (usually;) ... and that usually gets people talking to them and sometimes me or my wife. Back to the point... they almost always know that we're "tourists". I don't like to think I'm that obvious... maybe the camera hanging around my neck gives me away:)
Tonight I was imagining what it would be like if there were bridges instead of ferries to places like Saltspring, Gabriola, Quadra, and Bowen Island... even the Sunshine Coast. You would have people driving their cars straight into their garage and mainly just spending time with people who they know. Just like much of the city and especially the suburbs. You could live somewhere for years and not know most of the people in your block or apartment.
Ferries force people out of their cars - to an extent. You would notice it more on longer routes... not so much on a ferry to Quadra or Gabriola, but it's still there. People are usually made to wait for a ferry - and they often get out of their cars then. On the ferry, a lot of people don't go to the lounges, but on a nice day a lot do get out of their cars and mill around on the car deck.
Professor Vannini, I think, pointed out in one of his articles that there is usually a community bullettin board. I remember in December when Mr. Horn and I were examining a board on the Tenaka - with some humorous posts if I recall correctly;) To the point - they're used to announce events, and generally as a way of communication to island residents and visitors.
In summary the ferries and the terminals are gathering places. Regardless of whether they're unintentional meeting places or not, the ferries create closer and stronger communities. The ferry is something that everyone on the island has in common.
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Post by royalroadscaptain on Jul 20, 2007 14:16:40 GMT -8
Well put John! (I always blush a little bit when I read the "professor" in front of my name though ) You know, I was on Cortez earlier this month trying to research a bit more into those things you pointed out and I learned a lot about the ethics of ferry travel I didn't know before. For example... - There's a rather complicated ethical code surrounding the practice of saving a spot in the ferry line-up. On Cortez, if you wanna be assured of catching the first AM ferry, you want to park your car in the line-up no later than 30 minutes after the last PM ferry has departed. Then, of course, you can get a ride home or walk if you live close. Because a lot of things can happen from the evening to the morning after (plans change, lined-up people need to make a last minute drive somewhere, etc.) or because some people may park strategically away from the next car ahead to avoid parking in the hot summer sun, the line-up can look very uneven in the morning, with numerous "gaps." Those gaps are always occasions for much ethical questioning. What is the morally appropriate ferry line-up parking behavior? - Another neat thing I learned was that on Cortez one of the most despicable acts you could do is pass a car when driving in the direction of the ferry terminal. And it's funny how that rule is also observed on Quadra by the Cortez islanders. It's like the whole of Quadra is an extension of the ferry terminal for Cortez islanders (who sometimes even book their vet appointments to take place in the Quadra lineup!). And speaking of being a tourist: drivers on Cortez always wave at incoming traffic drivers. Tourists are surprised by this and hardly wave back. If somebody doesn't wave you know they're tourists! Lots of neat stuff...
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 20, 2007 19:10:41 GMT -8
re Cortes (or Cortez...): The HollyHock new-agey retreat center sometime tries to be a good neighbour to the other Cortesians. Apparently, they realize that their hybrid-driving clientele from California, Oregon & Washington (the "Blue states") will take up valuable ferry-deck space, on the trips over from Campbell River & Quadra. And that makes HollyHock unpopular with Cortesian locals, who sometimes get left behind, while the young Democrats make the sailing, in order to get to their meditation retreat in time (likely for the purpose of learning to "slow down"). www.hollyhock.bc.ca/cms/page1571.cfm see the ride-share notice. Also: www.cortesisland.com/cgi-bin/tideline/show_sitemap_article.cgi?ID=340 Read point #1, in the letter, below the flower.... ---------------------- Conclusion: The island ferries can impact on relationships between islanders. Pitting resort/destination against local-traveler.
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Post by royalroadscaptain on Jul 20, 2007 20:35:23 GMT -8
I'm blushing (...CorteZ...) You gotta love the idea of the Hollihock posting the whereabouts of their clients on the ferries, though, eh?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Mar 26, 2008 8:48:23 GMT -8
From a Hornby website/blog/forum...
( PASS THIS ON …TO OFF ISLANDERS AS WELL) HORNBY-DENMAN UNFARE FERRY FARES DEMONSTRATION MARCH 27 TH , 2008
MANY MORE PEOPLE HAVE COMMITTED OVER THIS EQUINOX/ EASTER… RESURRECTION OF THE PEOPLE WEEKEND ….AND YES WE WILL”ROCK THE BOAT”..PLEASE SEND THIS INFORMATION OUT ALL WEEK ………
” LET’S ROCK THE BOAT ”
Thought I would keep you ALL in the loop. In case you have this time off or decide to take a sick day because you are all sick of this corruption, whoops .. I mean corporation and the elected government creating massive hardship and robbing the people of our rights to these essential services. Please read below. Hope to see you soon on Hornby Island when the ferry is affordable again and on Thursday March 27 at Buckley Bay ferry terminal to protest by walking on the 12:10 ferry to Denman Island and return to Buckley Bay..dress up like a Super hero.. have fun..
PLEASE BRING FOOD AND WATER SO YOU STAY ENERGIZED AND GROUNDED AND PLEASE TAKE AWAY YOUR GARBAGE. THIS IS A GREEN PROTEST AS WE ALL KNOW OUR ENVIRONMENT IS IN GRAVE NEED OF RESPECT. FYI. It is now $59 for two people and a car to come to Hornby Island and going up AGAIN on April 1st, with the introduction of plastic pre-paid transportation cards.. Right!!!!
ARE YOU CONCERNED?? I AM. OUR LIVLIHOOD IS AT STAKE. I AM TIRED OF B.C. FERRIES CORP. MAKING US A GATED COMMUNITY.
Dear Canadians,
These are some of the letters being sent out. We have at least 100 committed constituents coming from the Islands and more from Vancouver Island. The Comox Valley Record has committed to come. We need support from all of you small Island dwellers and those that have family and friends they want to visit and you businesses that help to service us The list goes on.
This is about un-fare ferry fares on the Coastal ferries servicing the Gulf Islands and the big ferries serving the mainland and Vancouver Islands. This is about preserving diversity in our rural communities, our livelihood, our schools open, the coming and going of those that deserve to go to their provincial parks,and our children to be able to come home to visit friends and family from the cities for retreat. The ferries are an essential service. Is there really much more to say. Give us back our Coastal Highway 22. .
Dear Islanders and Off Island Supporters,
WE ARE NOW ORGANIZING FOR A PEACEFUL, NON-VIOLENT PROTEST / DEMONSTRATION /RALLY ON THURSDAY MARCH 27TH AT BUCKLEY BAY TERMINAL ON VANCOUVER ISLAND.This demonstration will take place between 11am and 1pm, on Thursday March 27, 2008, at the Buckley Bay ferry terminal. Enthusiastic support is expected from Hornby and Denman, nearby Courtenay and Comox, and even Victoria and Vancouver.
The aim, says Michelle Easterly, who runs an accommodation business on Hornby Island that has had a 40% off season drop in visitors due to ferry fare increase, “is to walk on the 12:10 ferry departing from Buckley Bay, loading it with concerned constituents ie. families to stop traffic and make a statement about getting back our Coastal Highway 22.” Hornbyites meet at Hornby ferry terminal for the 10 am ferry .
We will carpool with gracious Denman Islanders who will come to Gravelly Bay to pick us up and also take our own vehicles as needed. Vehicles can be left on the Denman West side (Please park safely and do not block driveways) Denman Islanders can join us to walk over and gather at the Buckley Bay terminal where we can rally and then walk on that 12 ferry from Buckley Bay.You are welcome to come earlier of course and stay longer to protest.. We will only stay on the ferry for that one sailing. .
It is not our wish to inconvenience any people with either medical urgencies or other timely concerns. Please those people communicate with us or take other ferries. If you cannot be there you can help in other ways. All help would be appreciated and people that cannot show up do what you can to spread this letter and call me to see how you could be of help. Please stress NON-VIOLENT.
We have about 100 or more people committed at this time and I dare say many more from Comox and Courtenay,Qualicum etc., possibly other groups down at the Parliament building in Victoria on that day to add support. We are sending out a press release on Tuesday. Please show up bring a friend or two that cares about this issue and share rides. For the sake of solidarity anybody who knows people on other islands that may want to perform this act, PASS THIS ON! If all islands board the12 ferry on their MARINE HIGHWAY it would be a wonderful expression of unity.
Passionately and with blessings for getting back our Highways, – Michelle Easterly 250-335-0908 mishae@mars.ark.com
ps.. please email back if you want to be on the email list for the updates and pass on my email address to others. Network this letter and organize your rides, foods and thoughts. Dress warm .
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Post by Ferryman on May 23, 2008 22:29:47 GMT -8
Here's my youtube Ferry video pick of the month.
Cheers,
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Post by Mike C on May 24, 2008 7:58:50 GMT -8
Hey, hey, hey, they shouldn't be complaining about the Queen of Tsawwassen! That's almost a PRIVILEGE to ride such a fantastic boat. The Queen of Nanaimo? Meh.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 24, 2008 12:39:31 GMT -8
They have a right to complain about fares, the problem they have with the TSA on the long weekends is the traffic amounts that go to the island which is why they are complaining.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on May 24, 2008 22:07:49 GMT -8
That video was very well put together. I hope it can be used for some productive purpose.
The important points were that, once again, this is all being done in the name of a private company yet all the funding is public money and where does that money come from but from the paying public? And the service must be reasonable and affordable as a service to that same public.
The most appropriate comment is that they, whoever they are in this case, need to listen to the people who know and the people who are actually feeling things and living in reality here.
And, I'm sorry, but the people who really do know are not the hundred thousand dollar a year robots on the BCFerries board who don't feel anything because of the excessive padding of their own bank accounts.
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Post by deasislander101 on Dec 25, 2008 23:07:13 GMT -8
As I have not been to Powell River before, I would not know what it is like there. However, my grandparents own a cabin about a five minute drive, ten minute bike or fifteen minute walk from the Little River ferry terminal. I would be guessing that Powell River is a bigger city then Little River (not being a city at all, merely a district) as if I were to look out of the cabin window as there are many lights dotting that area. However the district of Comox/Courtney/Little River is bigger then Powell River. It would seem to me then that Powell Riverians would come to Little River/Comox/Courtney to get away from at all. These city/areas are quite quaint and pleseant and quite enjoyable. The airport in Comox also has incredible service, as it flys all over Vancouver Island, and to Vancouver, making these places easier to acces, espcially Vancouver, as you do not need to make a huge ferry trip. You could just hop in the ferry to Littles River, go to the Comox airport and get on a plane to YVR, the flight being a max of 45 min, usually 15 min.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 25, 2008 23:58:08 GMT -8
...However, my grandparents own a cabin about a five minute drive, ten minute bike or fifteen minute walk from the Little River ferry terminal. That reminds me of another ferry-forum member that I know. ;D. re Powell River: I have relatives that live there, and they do go to Comox/Campbell River for things like doctor-specialist appointments, etc, and to car dealerships. I agree that the ferry is mainly for the benefit of the Powell Riverites to access services in the Comox region (but also for goods to travel to Powell River from Comox, such as the daily freight trucks). Welcome sir.
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Post by roeco on Dec 27, 2008 18:51:17 GMT -8
Has BC Ferries ever considered moving either the Texada or Comox Ferry to the Saltery Bay Terminal? If that happened then home basing the Queen of Burnaby in Powell River would be a non issue. And can the Queen of Chilliwack do the Comox-Powell River run? As I guess now when the Burnaby goes in for refit the Chilli will have to be the replacement vessel. Unless they send the Nanaimo to Comox and the Chilli to Long Harbour? I dont know if the Island Sky or Capilano could do the Comox-Powell River run? What were the issues when the Comox-Texada-Powell River schedule was tried??
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 27, 2008 23:39:23 GMT -8
I have no idea what the crewing is like up there, so it's hard to say if it's worth having a Little River to Saltery Bay route. I think it would certainly annoy Powell River residents with a longer Ferry trip - I'd estimate up to 2 hours or longer one way. Plus the fares would have to go up as well to compensate for that longer trip, and longer hours for the crews.
Another thing to also think about, is the fact that the Westview terminal was actually renovated quite a bit not too long ago. It's built perfectly to handle the Texada Route and the Comox route, aside from the odd time where either the NIP or the Burnaby are waiting for the use of the berth.
I believe the Powell River-Texada-Comox run was tried when the Queen of Sidney was running. She's a little shorter than the Queen of Burnaby, but I wonder if the Queen of Burnaby would even be able to squeeze into Blubber Bay. I don't know of any exact issues with the route. But I'd imagine that the sailing time to Comox was greatly increased, the amount of trips to and from Texada would be likely reduced, and would likely be longer if the route was done as a triangle run (Texada-Comox-Powell River).
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Post by Dane on Dec 27, 2008 23:47:15 GMT -8
I believe the Powell River-Texada-Comox run was tried when the Queen of Sidney was running. She's a little shorter than the Queen of Burnaby, but I wonder if the Queen of Burnaby would even be able to squeeze into Blubber Bay. I don't know of any exact issues with the route. But I'd imagine that the sailing time to Comox was greatly increased, the amount of trips to and from Texada would be likely reduced, and would likely be longer if the route was done as a triangle run (Texada-Comox-Powell River). The triangle was done twice, once by Highways and once by BC Ferries. There has hardly been a period where the route hasn't been over-served, so in both instances it was meant as a measure to add capacity without really adding cost. When Highways did it they used the two existing vessels, and when BC Ferries did it a third vessel was assigned to the area to create a modest increase in capacity, and to fill the apparent demand for service from Texada to the Island (which seems reasonable given PR's less than fantastic services). It was a failure both times. Highways couldn't make satisfactory schedules using two vessels (I think it was the Tenaka and Tachek) and BC Ferries found the added cost prohibitive when the main vessel on the crossing to Comox, the Queen of Sidney, was already sufficient in capacity. I find these two routes peculiar. The run to Texada fits in the "classic" scheme of many of the Islands, high demand for capacity at certain times, but overall demand is below capacity. Sailing to Comox though there are almost never runs that exceed capacity which is absolutely amazing. It's truly a miracle of necessity that has kept the route so "well served" with larger vessels such as the Sidney, Tsawwassen, and Burnaby. Highways probably had it right with the Sechelt Queen!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 28, 2008 8:14:49 GMT -8
When Highways did it they used the two existing vessels, and when BC Ferries did it a third vessel was assigned to the area to create a modest increase in capacity, and to fill the apparent demand for service from Texada to the Island (which seems reasonable given PR's less than fantastic services). What was the 3rd vessel that BC Ferries assigned to the area? Would this have been something like the Nimpkish doing extra runs from Texada to Westview?
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Post by Dane on Dec 28, 2008 14:25:51 GMT -8
What was the 3rd vessel that BC Ferries assigned to the area? Would this have been something like the Nimpkish doing extra runs from Texada to Westview? The Albert J. Savoie, and I think it was out of Blubber Bay.
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