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Post by Scott on Oct 4, 2012 11:11:25 GMT -8
I always thought Tsawwassen - Duke Point made money. There is an article on the Sun's website that lumps it in with the money losing minor routes. Do only routes 1 & 2 make money? www.bcferrycommission.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/BCFS-FY2012-Annual-Report-to-BCFC.pdfThe above PDF has the most recent route financial reports from earlier this year. It shows the Duke Point route losing almost $30 million this year, as opposed to $23 million last year. The accountants could help me here, but I think since the Coastal Inspiration is on route 30 (you could argue that it's pretty under-utilized on that route), the amortization costs are very high. If they had an older ferry on the route, those might go down a lot. Correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I believe Route 30 gets $0 subsidization. Some of the smaller routes come close to breaking even some years. For example the Crofton - Saltspring route last year pulled a profit (after subsidy) with it's very low amortization probably being one reason (the old Howe Sound Queen isn't depreciating much anymore!). Strangely however, this year operating expenses almost doubled and it's almost $3 million in the red. The Mill Bay route only cost $170,000 to run, before subsidies.. until this year with the newer ferry, it's 2 million in the red.
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Mill Bay
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Long Suffering Bosun
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Post by Mill Bay on Oct 4, 2012 15:24:29 GMT -8
Looking at the Long Harbour/Fulford Harbour Debate a little bit, I think Ganges Residents might be a bit sour to losing Long Harbour in favour of Fulford, but, is the 20 Minute Drive to Fulford that much trouble? Then again, I'm not a local... Ganges residents were already soured, once, when Long Harbour was chosen for the terminal instead of Ganges which was a regular steamer stop. Apparently, Ganges was not sheltered enough to serve as an overnight terminal, or we could just blame WAC Bennett and Flying Phil for that. Suffice it to say, Long Harbour and Fulford are both far too established as terminals to make closing one, or merging the two, feasible these days. Maybe Montague was never quite as established in terms of having a significant traffic base that wouldn't be handled just as easily through Sturdies Bay. If we were going to talk about closing a major terminal, though, I would say that consolidating route 2 and route 30 at Duke Point would make the most sense. The terminal and holding areas could very likely handle the traffic loads, and Duke Point has the advantage of discharging onto a dedicated freeway, instead of busy city streets. Of course, this is dependent on building at least one more berth at Duke Point, the costs of which would pretty much wipe out any cost servings, and I've heard there are also environmental issues that have prevented a second berth from being built all along. Duke Point's other major flaw, especially in the Gabriola Island scenario, is its distance from Nanaimo proper, and it's utter lack of transit service. No doubt, they could resolve that issue easily enough, with the right subsidy to BC Transit, but then they would have to try and convince people to see route 30 as a viable commuter route, when all that it is generally billed for is the highway transport industry.
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Oct 7, 2012 20:34:45 GMT -8
Is cutting 4 sailings on Saturdays on route 30 part of this cost saving thing??? According to the travel centre the 5:15am 5:45pm 8:15pn and 10:45pm sailings are cut on Saturdays and the ships are running opposite positions like on route 1 when there are 6am sailings. So Saturdays the sailings are 7:45am 10:15am 12:45pm and 3:15pm.
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Post by ferrytraveller on Oct 8, 2012 18:06:02 GMT -8
Is cutting 4 sailings on Saturdays on route 30 part of this cost saving thing??? According to the travel centre the 5:15am 5:45pm 8:15pn and 10:45pm sailings are cut on Saturdays and the ships are running opposite positions like on route 1 when there are 6am sailings. So Saturdays the sailings are 7:45am 10:15am 12:45pm and 3:15pm. Yes Karl, they are cost saving measures along with the regular Sunday morning tie up for route 30.
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Post by glasseye on Oct 10, 2012 11:50:01 GMT -8
Cost saving on route #2 means the last westbound sailing Monday-Thursday now leaves at 7pm.
Adequate funding for public infrastructure? Not in this province.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 10, 2012 12:47:38 GMT -8
Cost saving on route #2 means the last westbound sailing Monday-Thursday now leaves at <b>7pm</b>. Adequate funding for public infrastructure? Not in this province. And yesterday the 5pm sailing from Departure Bay was overloaded, which meant those left behind had a four hour wait until the next sailing. Wonderful service, especially for the day after a long weekend, given that many people tack on another day off.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 17, 2013 6:59:37 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 23, 2013 19:42:32 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 26, 2013 20:58:21 GMT -8
Michael Smyth had an opinion piece in yesterday's Province comparing compensation packages for senior management at BCFS with their counterparts south of the line at WSF's. The contrast between the two ferry operations is stark, or shall I say as different as night & day. Mr. Smyth was not heaping on the praise for the brass at BCFS or the politicians that set up the system we have today, and keep it in place. I believe that the current situation with BC Ferries is one part of the reason that some Vancouver Island citizens feel that they would be better off splitting from BC to become a separate province. Anyways, give it a read at: Are ferry execs hosing taxpayers? Let's compare with Washington
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 1, 2013 21:09:38 GMT -8
Probably why route 1 was busy today. A regular Sunday there would be a 8pm and 10pm from both terminals but oh no cause this Sunday was in the middle of a long weekend there was no 8pm and 10pm sailings scheduled. But being it was busy this evening they did add a 8pm from Swartz Bay and a 10pm from Tsawwassen. So why not just schedule that in the first place seeing a long weekend is usually busy. Thumbs down to BC Ferries management!
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Sept 1, 2013 22:00:03 GMT -8
Probably why route 1 was busy today. A regular Sunday there would be a 8pm and 10pm from both terminals but oh no cause this Sunday was in the middle of a long weekend there was no 8pm and 10pm sailings scheduled. But being it was busy this evening they did add a 8pm from Swartz Bay and a 10pm from Tsawwassen. So why not just schedule that in the first place seeing a long weekend is usually busy. Thumbs down to BC Ferries management! I agree with you. I think this year must be different compared to other years.
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 2, 2013 17:32:54 GMT -8
Yet again no 8pm and 10pm scheduled for tonight but they have done the same thing as last night and added a 8pm from Swartz Bay and 10pm from Tsawwassen! Maybe next Labour Day weekend they will just schedule those sailings.
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Post by Balfour on Nov 13, 2013 10:16:01 GMT -8
BC Ferries has announced it is making changes to the way it compensates its executives and management. Read more Here
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Post by Taxman on Nov 13, 2013 12:31:39 GMT -8
BC Ferries has announced it is making changes to the way it compensates its executives and management. Read more Here Perhaps I misread this, but it looks like thier new base salary becomes thier salary + average 4 year bonus, which they will withhold a portion from. I haven't had long to read it, but at first glance wouldn't the net result be the same? It does look better when they withhold amounts for not achieving something as opposed to paying large bonuses, form over substance...
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Nov 13, 2013 15:20:44 GMT -8
BC Ferries has announced it is making changes to the way it compensates its executives and management. Read more Here
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 13, 2013 18:57:22 GMT -8
At the urging of Christy Clark, BC Ferries has revamped the way it compensates its execs and senior managers. They'll still get bonuses... but now it will be directly tied to the financial performance of the company.
We all know that the next round of cost cutting at BC Ferries involves what they and the Clark government disparagingly refer to as the 'minor routes'. Quadra,Texada, Hornby... the same sort of routes that the European Economic Community officially refers to as 'lifeline' routes, because they are essential links between small communities and the outside world.
So... for every run cancelled, for every service hour dropped, for every dollar saved, BC Ferries execs will personally benefit financially. An organization that is supposed to serve coastal communities is going to reward its head honchos personally for cuts that will harm those communities. Has there ever been a more stark demonstration of the sheer insanity of divorcing the operations of BC Ferries from the needs of our coast, in general?
If businesses and delivery companies cut back services to the islands because midday sailings are curtailed... no matter. If off season tourism drops even more, if families find it still more inconvenient to make a go of it- that all takes a back seat to BC Ferries' decision makers rewarding themselves financially for the company 'saving' money.
This really makes my blood boil. I have no doubt that politics is in play here; most of the south coast islands and mainland communities that depend on ferries voted against the Liberal government in the May election.
They're of no use to Christy Clark, so she risks nothing by alienating them further.
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Post by Mike C on Nov 13, 2013 20:34:07 GMT -8
At the urging of Christy Clark, BC Ferries has revamped the way it compensates it's execs and senior managers. They'll still get bonuses... but now it will be directly tied to the financial performance of the company. We all know that the next round of cost cutting at BC Ferries involves what they and the Clark government disparagingly refer to as the 'minor routes'. Quadra,Texada, Hornby... the same sort of routes that the European Economic Community officially refers to as 'lifeline' routes, because they are essential links between small communities and the outside world. So... for every run cancelled, for every service hour dropped, for every dollar saved, BC Ferries execs will personally benefit financially. An organization that is supposed to serve coastal communities is going to reward its head honchos personally for cuts that will harm those communities. Has there ever been a more stark demonstration of the sheer insanity of divorcing the operations of BC Ferries from the needs of our coast, in general? If businesses and delivery companies cut back services to the islands because midday sailings are curtailed... no matter. If off season tourism drops even more, if families find it still more inconvenient to make a go of it- that all takes a back seat to BC Ferries' decision makers rewarding themselves financially for the company 'saving' money. This really makes my blood boil. I have no doubt that politics are in play here; most of the south coast islands and mainland communities that depend on ferries voted against the Liberal government in the May election. They're of no use to Christy Clark, so she risks nothing by alienating them further. For me, the most annoying thing is the inconsistency - no direct branch of government would be treated this way. The Minister of Transportation would not have his compensation based on financial performance; if we did, I would be paying $20 to get my bus across the Fraser River every morning. The Coastal Ferry Act review will likely work synonymously with this to cut service to the communities BC Ferries is mandated to serve. The goal of financial profitability is probably the single most destructive thing to well-intentioned transportation policy, especially service to low-demand areas. It doesn't work in air travel, rail travel, transit service, or highways. Absolutely brutal.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 15, 2013 17:11:40 GMT -8
[housekeeping] Just a reminder that this here thread is for general cost-cutting news & discussion re BC Ferries. General issues or news that happens from time to time. However... - The service cuts and other strategies specifically related to the Provincial Government's 2012 & 2013 review of the Coastal Ferry Act and their response to that review are discussed in a separate thread. Located HERE- that separate thread gives the history of that long drawn-out multi year exercise. Thanks ! [/housekeeping]
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 15, 2013 23:09:43 GMT -8
[housekeeping] Just a reminder that this here thread is for general cost-cutting news & discussion re BC Ferries. General issues or news that happens from time to time. However... - The service cuts and other strategies specifically related to the Provincial Government's 2012 & 2013 review of the Coastal Ferry Act and their response to that review are discussed in a separate thread. Located HERE- that separate thread gives the history of that long drawn-out multi year exercise. Thanks ! [/housekeeping] Not to quibble, but... well, okay, I will quibble. Coastal Skier introduced this latest thread angle a few days ago, with regard to the changes to the pay structure at the top of the BC Ferries pyramid- specifically, bonuses. I don't really see anything in the Coastal Ferry Act with regard to bonuses for execs. As well, I'm not sure that Christy Clark's huffy pronouncements about bonuses had a lot to do with a systematic review of the 'Act'. It was simply something that she know would play well with people both left and right inclined, who dislike executive entitlements. My equally (or perhaps more so) huffy response was perhaps more related to the ongoing review of the CFA... but maybe not. I don't see this issue as being a review of the essential nature of the system that Gordon Campbell set up. The Clark Liberals are not really proposing any fundamental reworking of the phony-baloney 'private' BC Ferries model. Not so far, anyway. So... seems fair enough to me that this latest conversation can indeed be just part of the 'cost saving measures' thread. But I do see how some might think this discussion is more accurately added to the CFA review thread. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, perhaps.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 15, 2013 23:22:16 GMT -8
[housekeeping] Just a reminder that this here thread is for general cost-cutting news & discussion re BC Ferries. General issues or news that happens from time to time. However... - The service cuts and other strategies specifically related to the Provincial Government's 2012 & 2013 review of the Coastal Ferry Act and their response to that review are discussed in a separate thread. Located HERE- that separate thread gives the history of that long drawn-out multi year exercise. Thanks ! [/housekeeping] Not to quibble, but... well, okay, I will quibble. Coastal Skier introduced this latest thread angle a few days ago, with regard to the changes to the pay structure at the top of the BC Ferries pyramid- specifically, bonuses. I don't really see anything in the Coastal Ferry Act with regard to bonuses for execs. As well, I'm not sure that Christy Clark's huffy pronouncements about bonuses had a lot to do with a systematic review of the 'Act'. It was simply something that she know would play well with people both left and right inclined, who dislike executive entitlements. My equally (or perhaps more so) huffy response was perhaps more related to the ongoing review of the CFA... but maybe not. I don't see this issue as being a review of the essential nature of the system that Gordon Campbell set up. The Clark Liberals are not really proposing any fundamental reworking of the phony-baloney 'private' BC Ferries model. Not so far, anyway. So... seems fair enough to me that this latest conversation can indeed be just part of the 'cost saving measures' thread. But I do see how some might think this discussion is more accurately added to the CFA review thread. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, perhaps. Oops, sorry for my not giving context to my comments (I posted them immediately after posting about the anticipated Nov.18th news about the Ferry Act Review response, so the context was fresh in my mind, but I didn't type it in my post) Oh, I'm in agreement with what Neil has posted, and with the recent discussion this general cost-cutting thread. The bonus-restructuring is not really related to the official review of the Act by BC Ferries, or the response to the review. - so that's why this here cost-savings thread is great for all those things that come up such as the Gov't reactions to executive salaries. And it's great to reference the Coastal Ferry Act Review in these here general discussions, because its relevant. I'm just trying to make sure that any future news & discussion specifically related to the Gov't review of the Act (that 2012-2014 process that's not yet completed) gets posted in that other specific thread. ie. News and discussion that I'm expecting at 9:30am on Monday Nov.18th... - because that's what that other thread is for. To be clear: my housekeeping note wasn't aimed at any recent discussion in this here general thread. It's all good here. - My housekeeping note is in anticipation of next week, where I want to remind people that there's a specific thread for the Review, and so when they read news stories about it next week and want to post about it, they will know where to do it. (and some people will post a cut/paste of next Monday's news into the general news-articles thread, I'm sure. I'll have my moderator button ready for action
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