|
Post by lmtengs on Oct 22, 2010 20:34:18 GMT -8
Terrible news guys and gals.... The Klatawa and Kulleet are to be scrapped. Already been posted above a bit....
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 22, 2010 20:39:03 GMT -8
Terrible news guys and gals.... The Klatawa and Kulleet are to be scrapped. Hey, thanks for letting us all know. ;D But seriously, it's the way it is. Sad for nostalgia, but a reality that had to come.
|
|
Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
|
Post by Mill Bay on Oct 23, 2010 9:27:42 GMT -8
If the price of the Albion ferries drops to the value of scrap, vice the insane asking price that's been rumoured and linked from this thread than maybe there actually is a reason for BC ferries to acquire one - replace the Mill Bay. I do not, however, if financial realities would allow that. Plus the 250ml of fuel the Mill Bay burns everyday is hard to improve I was just thinking that, another thing BCFerries could have done was to make Kuper look-alikes out of them. Since they are essentially the same design as the Kuper was, they could simply have done a slice and dice following the same plans as the Kuper. It would have given them two more minor vessels with a slightly higher capacity, then they really could have replaced the Klitsa, freeing it up to bumped down to the Mill Bay run. Not to say that I'm not glad no one thought of this, because the Mill Bay is twice the ferry those barges ever were ;D.
|
|
|
Post by fargowolf on Oct 23, 2010 9:55:48 GMT -8
Terrible news guys and gals.... The Klatawa and Kulleet are to be scrapped. Already been posted above a bit.... Yeah... I was pretty tired when I made my little post, then noticed the one by Nickfro after the fact. XD To be honest, I think it was a bit of a conspiracy by Translink. Overprice the vessels, so no one would be able to afford to buy them, then scrap them to ensure that they, in my opinion, could not be used as competition against the Golden Ears Bridge.
|
|
|
Post by BreannaF on Oct 23, 2010 14:15:02 GMT -8
Damn Translink, why do they have to scrap them? I guess I should get down there for some more pictures before the 'big day'... Good bye, old friends. Is there any chance that BCF might buy them for scrap prices and maybe replace one of their aging minor ferries? Or maybe the BCMoT? They could truck one up to replace an inland ferry. Does WSF need any new ships? Maybe back east? Might their hulls be kept and used as barges, and only the superstructure scrapped? Aren't all your questions answered by the fact that these things were for sale for more than a year and nobody wanted them for anything? This isn't much more of a response than the concise way that Neil summed it up, but the fact of the matter is, if we (the ferry geeks) take the sentimental value out of the transaction, then the value of these ferries really are beyond the costs of keeping them running. To be specific, there are costs involved in any choice. Sure, it might be nice to use them for some island that doesn't have service yet, but if there were really an interest in that, then it would have been explored already. Shipping them to an inland location would be quite expensive, and the expense would have to be justified in these boats being an improvement over what is already there. Even keeping them on as a backup for something else would incur significant costs, since keeping even a spare vessel floating requires the same costs in upkeep and maintenance as keeping any other passenger-carrying vessel ready for work. That would be a big expense for vessels of their size and age. It's likely that a move to the East Coast would cost more than the boats are worth. Also, even if WSF had a use for a boat that small (and they don't), they are stopped by the Jones Act, requiring them to only use US-built ships. Heck, we could even propose taking up a collection to turn one of these into the WCFF ferry fan ferry. Trouble is that, even if we had the means to do that, it would become obvious that the upkeep costs wouldn't be worth it even for that kind of use. There be costs in everything. I don't want to see the cute little puppies the cute little ferries die, either. But if you want a real life example, note the Q of Esquimalt still sitting in Alberni. Note that the Q of Vancouver and Q of Tsawwassen are being used/underused as little more than storage containers. It's the same thing -- there just isn't a lot of use for retired ferries of any size. Or, more specifically, there are no real cost-effective uses for used ferryboats of any size. Sorry. Yes, get pictures. (Open question: Is "Sentimental Value" an asset account or a liability?)
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 23, 2010 16:57:16 GMT -8
(Open question: Is "Sentimental Value" an asset account or a liability?) It's definitely a liability, but you would need to engage an actuary to properly measure it.
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Oct 23, 2010 17:05:54 GMT -8
To be honest, I think it was a bit of a conspiracy by Translink. Overprice the vessels, so no one would be able to afford to buy them, then scrap them to ensure that they, in my opinion, could not be used as competition against the Golden Ears Bridge. That's obviously not the case.... Only a sentimental ferry fan could ever believe there is any validity to running a ferry service against a bridge of short a short length with such a negligable fee.
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
Post by lifc on Oct 23, 2010 23:07:21 GMT -8
A couple of thoughts:
It would be worth it to the owners to sell the boats, to anyone for scrap price or just a little over. I do not see how they would in any way, shape, or form be competition to them. If the price is cheap enough someone will buy them.
Here where I am on Lummi island, and being one of the founders of our currently establishing Volunteer Ferry Board, I would feel a sense of loss for the Vessels. While I do realize the Jones Act would keep us from using them, I also know that there is virtually no chance we will get a long overdue replacement Ferry anytime soon. While these Vessels are neither a perfect fit or inclement weather appropriate, one would be a great spare. Last summer's emergency failure of the Whatcom Chief which put it out-of-business for a collective month including the unplanned week, had emormous consequences for the community. The initial emergency caught several hunderd cars on the Island without any escape except for a very inconvenient emergency landing barge service which cost each car owner $150.00 too get them off. The scheduled yearly dry dock time was them moved from September to July, smack dab in the middle of Tourist Season. Lost seasonal revenues to the Island Enterprises were on the order of 50 percent, the Parking on the Mainland side was elevated about another 50 percent, due to summer visitors, from normal drydock quantity, resulting in huge problems on the mainland side. None of this mentions the loss of Fare Revenue to the County.
There is not an appropriate Car Ferry available for emergencies any where on the Western U.S. coast, one of these would do the job nicely. It would also be a great emergency Ferry for Guemes Island, EMS and Fire support for San Juan County, and as an emergency Passenger Ferry for Kitsap. When one of ours goes into semi retirement and reserve status, it would then be sold or scrapped.
Just makes me sad it can't happen.
|
|
|
Post by kittcar2000 on Oct 25, 2010 13:26:52 GMT -8
It's really too bad translink didn't lower their selling price. I find it hard to believe there isn't some place these ferries can be used.
|
|
|
Post by lmtengs on Oct 27, 2010 16:04:19 GMT -8
Here's the Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows Times' view on the latest story: Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by lmtengs on Nov 14, 2010 16:34:30 GMT -8
Today I ate at Kingfisher's for lunch, and while I was there, I got some pics of the Albion terminal. It's up for lease... Kulleet is starting to show some tree-rust. The Langley dock hasn't changed much... It looks like the lounge is being used as a storage area: You can see a cooler and some boxes in there: There was a worker in the bridge of the Kulleet, and earlier, the Klatawa. He started up the radar, but that appeared to be all. You can see the outline of some old lettering underneath. The car deck is all rusty:
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Nov 14, 2010 16:49:38 GMT -8
Thanks for the photo update.
|
|
|
Post by kittcar2000 on Nov 16, 2010 12:53:46 GMT -8
I wonder when the the ferries are supposed to be hauled away for scrap? I think it's been almost a month since Translink made the announcement. Or perhaps translink wants too much money for that sad affair.
|
|
|
Post by Curtis on Nov 16, 2010 14:05:48 GMT -8
It's a real shame they have to go like this. I wish there was a way to save them. BCFS is going to be building the Denman Cable Ferry, why couldn't they just slice and dice pieces the Klatawa and Kulleet together to make a brand new vessel? Might be a worthwhile investment in theory, but I'm sure there are some flaws to it.
|
|
lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
|
Post by lifc on Nov 16, 2010 14:40:56 GMT -8
They had an offer on them which was good until the 15th. I don't know if the buyer came through, I presume it was a low offer, was from far away.
|
|
|
Post by NMcKay on Dec 1, 2010 12:05:38 GMT -8
it actually makes me a little heart broken to see the old girls in such a state of disarray. its sorta like watching a piece of your family history slowly rotting away.
|
|
Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
|
Post by Mill Bay on Dec 1, 2010 16:36:00 GMT -8
it actually makes me a little heart broken to see the old girls in such a state of disarray. its sorta like watching a piece of your family history slowly rotting away. They are relics of another age, when corporate budges included a healthier margin for providing a quality service or product, instead of padding pockets. They would only be a liability against that mindset not to mention, god forbid, an actual service that might still be within the realm of affordability for the user. They had to close all such doors in order to justify the dictatorship of the Golden Ears Bridge, which shows no recognition to its customers, but only promises them a night full sound and excitement but leaves them with the bar tab at the end of the crossing.
|
|
|
Post by Ian on Dec 1, 2010 21:22:30 GMT -8
I have just heard a rumour today about a possible purchase by a company in South Africa. I didn't believe it, it sounds too far fetched, transport costs would be huge. But, if someone can verify, that would be great.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
|
Post by Neil on Dec 1, 2010 22:52:25 GMT -8
They are relics of another age, when corporate budges included a healthier margin for providing a quality service or product, instead of padding pockets. They would only be a liability against that mindset not to mention, god forbid, an actual service that might still be within the realm of affordability for the user. They had to close all such doors in order to justify the dictatorship of the Golden Ears Bridge, which shows no recognition to its customers, but only promises them a night full sound and excitement but leaves them with the bar tab at the end of the crossing. Could you maybe point out some instances to us from, say, any time in the last hundred years, where governments have built a new bridge and kept the ferry crossing that it was meant to replace? And what's your take on the number of regular Golden Ears Bridge users who would prefer to go back to the regular hour-plus wait for a five minute crossing, as opposed to the 'dictatorship' of that nasty new bridge?
|
|
|
Post by kittcar2000 on Dec 4, 2010 14:09:11 GMT -8
The bridge was long overdue. It's too bad one wasn't built the same time as the Mission bridge. And same style. Would have been way cheaper. Not this huge six lane white elephant Maple Ridge is stuck with.
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Dec 4, 2010 17:27:57 GMT -8
Build too small... people complain Build to capacity... people are happy for five years until capacity is met Build to big... people complain
It is essentially a no-win situation for governments building infastructure. Golden Ears a white elephant? Clearly not.
|
|
|
Post by lmtengs on Dec 4, 2010 18:31:31 GMT -8
The bridge was long overdue. It's too bad one wasn't built the same time as the Mission bridge. And same style. Would have been way cheaper. Not this huge six lane white elephant Maple Ridge is stuck with. I don't understand why you think the GEB is a white elephant. The people of MR/PM/Surrey/Langley need the bridge, and they (we, actually, seeing as I live in MR) benefit immensely from it. The cities are seeing huge increases in commerce, more people are moving into town, and it's so much easier and faster for us to drive. For example, it used to take about an hour and twenty minutes to get from my place to Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal, and now with the GEB, it's usually just a little bit less than an hour. The six lanes are actually great. In rush-hour, the bridge can get pretty busy. Not bumper-to-bumper-busy, but it's steady. If there were only four lanes, traffic would be backed up. 6 lanes is perfect for all the new growth occuring in the area. You know, if anything, the ferries are more of a white elephant than the bridge is right now...
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 11, 2010 12:50:23 GMT -8
Here's some of my Youtube picks of the month, that are worth watching: Albion Ferries
|
|
Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
|
Post by Mill Bay on Feb 16, 2011 16:18:23 GMT -8
Somewhat related to the former Albion ferries, as it mentions what has been happening with the "savings" in not operating the ferries, as well as new potential schemes with Translink still trying to find someone to buy the ferries.
|
|
|
Post by kittcar2000 on Feb 17, 2011 15:09:55 GMT -8
So translink hasn't scrapped the ferries yet? Interesting there so desperate to try to unload their over priced boats. I guess they will try anything. And I still say the Golden Ears Bridge is one giant white elephant. And I'am enjoying watching translink crying the blues. Should be interesting when the toll's kick in on the Port Mann. All the other free bridges will be a zoo!!! Oh yes most of the semi's that do use the bridge are out of province registered. Free ride for them.
|
|