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Post by Dane on Oct 20, 2008 12:51:26 GMT -8
The subsidy for the Albion ferry will be immediately removed when the bridge opens as those funds are paying for the toll collection, with the remainder being used for "general revenues" toward the bridge. The savings in operating the ferry was one way the project was seen as being financially viable.
Albion ferry service is planned to be off the books by financial 2010.
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Post by Ferryman on Nov 6, 2008 23:34:53 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 7, 2008 12:22:36 GMT -8
I can certainly understand these people advocating for their jobs, but, really.... They've known for years that the ferries were going, and they've even had a date. They've had much more time than workers in most industries ever have to prepare for the closing of an employer's operation.
Despite the tolls, I suspect that very few people would prefer the ferries over the new bridge. This issue was over long ago, and no government in its right mind would continue operating one ferry at a million dollars a year along with the bridge option.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Nov 7, 2008 12:40:22 GMT -8
I can certainly understand these people advocating for their jobs, but, really.... They've known for years that the ferries were going, and they've even had a date. They've had much more time than workers in most industries ever have to prepare for the closing of an employer's operation. Despite the tolls, I suspect that very few people would prefer the ferries over the new bridge. This issue was over long ago, and no government in its right mind would continue operating one ferry at a million dollars a year along with the bridge option. Maybe we can get that down to $10k of capital and $1k per year of operating...let me find my rope and a dingy...  |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 11, 2008 8:53:00 GMT -8
Here's a story. Don't get too excited about the use of the word "Fans". www.canada.com:80/theprovince/news/story.html?id=9765bd01-0b78-4b89-bfb6-927b0bed39af===================== Albion Ferry could stay in service: Fans
Service could supplement Golden Ears Bridge Brian Lewis The Province Tuesday, November 11, 2008 Are a few Albion Ferry employees tilting hopelessly at windmills like classical fiction's Don Quixote, or is their plan plausible? They say don't kill the Albion Ferry service, as TransLink currently plans, once the $1-billion Golden Ears Bridge over the Fraser River opens next year to link Langley Township and Maple Ridge. At first glance, the idea doesn't make sense and you wonder whether those proposing such a scheme have inhaled too many fumes from the little ferries that carry an amazing 4,000 cars daily between Fort Langley and Maple Ridge. It's also understandable that the 70 to 80 people who keep the free ferry service running would want to fight to keep their jobs, since 40 of them are full-timers. But a closer look at this proposal, thanks to now-retired senior Albion Ferry employee Graham Mowatt, shows that the idea has some merit. Mowatt says that, because the Golden Ears Bridge is about 10 kilometres downstream or west of the Albion Ferry service, it will not adequately serve the eastern side of Maple Ridge, which is undergoing rapid growth. "If the ferry service is cancelled as planned, the majority of people from the east side of Maple Ridge will have to drive an extra 20 kilometres daily to use the new toll bridge," he says. Easy access from the north side of the Fraser to tourist facilities in Fort Langley and similar access from the south to recreation areas such as Golden Ears Park will also be lost. For those reasons alone, Mowatt, who is running for Maple Ridge council, says there should be enough traffic to make a reduced Albion Ferry service feasible. The group -- its website is www.savealbionferry.com -- proposes reducing the service from two ferries to just one and charging a modest toll of about $2.50 per car, which is cheaper than the $2.85 to $3.85 per car on the new bridge. The ferry system would operate on a break-even basis. So, if the group's business model worked, the ferry system wouldn't require a subsidy from users of other TransLink services, unlike the current setup that costs TransLink about $6 million in annual subsidies. That break-even basis is based on a conservative 60-per-cent capacity estimate with a mix of cars and trucks serving a more casual market that has increased emphasis on tourism and recreation. The scaled-down ferry system could merge with TransLink's Seabus marine passenger service since there are economies of scale to be had -- like developing a labour pool, Mowatt adds. But TransLink isn't interested and won't study the proposal. "We've always intended to shut down the ferry service once the new bridge opens," said TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie. "We'll apply the annual $6-million subsidy from the ferries to keeping tolls down on the Golden Ears Bridge." Oh well, so much for thinking outside the box. © The Vancouver Province 2008 ============================ The above-mentioned website has a section for "forum - coming soon" that might eventually interest some of us. |
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Post by Kahloke on Nov 11, 2008 9:20:23 GMT -8
I haven't been following the whole Albion Ferry thing too much, so if this has been covered before, I apologize in advance, but is BC Ferries interested in acquiring the Albion Ferries? Is there a need for them on any BCF routes?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 11, 2008 15:05:59 GMT -8
I haven't been following the whole Albion Ferry thing too much, so if this has been covered before, I apologize in advance, but is BC Ferries interested in acquiring the Albion Ferries? Is there a need for them on any BCF routes? No to both questions, I would think. BC Ferries has one vessel, the Klitsa, that is identical in capacity to the Klatawa and Kulleet, and it is used only in a a fill in role. They don't have any routes in fully protected waters that the 24 car capacity k-barges could be used on, except for the Saanich Inlet route, and there, they only ever run the Mill Bay. (Because of the docks?) |
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 11, 2008 15:52:05 GMT -8
Yes, currently, the only ferry capable of using the Mill Bay and Brentwood Bay berths is the Mill Bay. However, I have heard rumours, that when the Mill Bay is retired (which should be fairly soon considering she's 52 years old) they will replace her with the Klitsa. As much as the powers that be will tell you otherwise, traffic on the route is increasing, albeit slowly, so I think having a larger boat on the route would make sense, in the long run.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Nov 29, 2008 10:42:15 GMT -8
A posting of the news article about the incident that shut down the Albion ferry yesterday... originally it was reported that a car had driven off the ferry itself, but it later turned out that a car had plunged into the river from a pier a short distance upstream from the Fort Langley ferry berth and the ferry service was suspended to aid in the recovery efforts. The ferries also participated in the action by launching their FRCs and standing by to attempt a rescue, but the driver never made it out of the vehicle.
One man dead after car plunges off dock
Rescue crews recover body of Caucasian man from the Fraser River
Matthew Claxton
Langley Advance
Saturday, November 29, 2008
A man is dead after his car plunged off a government dock into the Fraser River shortly after noon Friday.
A body was removed from the water by emergency crews about 2 p.m. Police have not released his name. He is described as a Caucasian and is believed to be in his late 40s.
Police said the man's brown, older-model car went off the end of a dock east of the Albion ferry terminal on the Fort Langley side.
The dock is owned by the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
Langley RCMP Const. Holly Marks said the first calls to emergency services came in at 12:04 p.m. Dozens of emergency responders arrived on scene, and police blocked off traffic to the area for the rescue operation.
Crew members from the Albion ferries also assisted, with one ferry remaining stationary in the middle of the river and two Zodiacs launched from a ferry closer to the scene of the incident.
An air ambulance and landed in a field on the nearby Kwantlen First Nation reserve, but was not needed.
Police said the cause of the accident remains under investigation.
Albion ferry sailings were cancelled for much of the afternoon Friday before resuming in early evening.
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Post by Dane on Dec 4, 2008 23:21:47 GMT -8
1. BCFS pays a nominal annual fee to use a vessel when required and available from BC Ferries. Wouldn't you mean the Fraser River Marine Transportion (FRMT) pays BC Ferries a nominal annual fee? I would think TL pays... FRMT wouldn't have the finances to do that I imagine, or if they do pay it must be a transfer of required funds from TL. I know that FRMT is the body that actually 'negotiates' to get the vessel available. |
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 17, 2008 8:08:26 GMT -8
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Post by Quinsam on Feb 15, 2009 9:37:56 GMT -8
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Post by BreannaF on Feb 15, 2009 18:36:29 GMT -8
SIZE: 151 x 40 x 5-1/2 Steel NAME: KLATAWA Fresh water, 26 car, 150 passenger ferry, new 3406 CAT engines $1,100,000.00 Full listing here: globalmarinetrader.ca/content/view/188/36/ With lots of stats. Hummmm.... $1.1 million, into about 200 ferry forum members, leaves about $5500 a piece, and voila! An official ferry forum vessel! Or not.  |
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Post by Dane on Feb 15, 2009 21:21:14 GMT -8
Nice finds! They're going pretty high, do you you think they'll fetch that amount? Like most of us I have no knowledge of the used ferry market, only what I perceive to by BCF's needs and they certainly don't seem to be in a position to need, let alone afford, to re-unite the Klitsa with her siblings.
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 15, 2009 22:42:34 GMT -8
I'm a little surprised that they're priced for over a million dollars. Thinking back to the Kuper, when she was the John Atlantic Burr. BC Ferries payed $200,000 USD for her, and she spent her life on a lake, and she was only a slightly scaled down version of our K-Class having a shorter beam (I think). The JAB was also 10 years newer than the K-Class.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Feb 15, 2009 23:31:44 GMT -8
So does this mean that the coalition to save the Albion ferry operation has failed in its efforts, since Translink, or some other third party is now trying to sell them. Or would the group now have to consider buying the vessels outright in order to maintain the route in operation with the current vessels? One wonders where they would get the money for the purchase price.
On the other hand, these two little boats are in very good shape, they could possibly be the ones you might want to use to provide extra passenger service to Squamish in 2010. I'm sure it would be relatively easy and quick to cover over the cardecks with additional enclosed areas for lounge spaces, similar to what the Garibaldi II had: somewhat of a prefab, container like structure installed right on the deck.
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 16, 2009 7:34:08 GMT -8
Hahaha. "Take a ride on the ex Albion Ferries to Squamish from Horseshoe Bay. Their service speed is 10 knots, providing you with a nice liesurely cruise up Howe Sound to Darrel Bay in 3 hours as opposed to half an hour on the highway". Sorry to dump all over your idea Mill Bay, but somehow I don't think that's going to fly with the amount of time it would take. I think the only Ferry service to Squamish that VANOC is planning on now, is if in case there's another disaster on the highway like there was this past summer for example. So instead, we'll have a constant stream of buses going up and down the highway, when there's a perfectly good railway to use right beside it.  |
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Feb 16, 2009 12:04:47 GMT -8
Hahaha. "Take a ride on the ex Albion Ferries to Squamish from Horseshoe Bay. Their service speed is 10 knots, providing you with a nice liesurely cruise up Howe Sound to Darrel Bay in 3 hours as opposed to half an hour on the highway". Sorry to dump all over your idea Mill Bay, but somehow I don't think that's going to fly with the amount of time it would take. I think the only Ferry service to Squamish that VANOC is planning on now, is if in case there's another disaster on the highway like there was this past summer for example. So instead, we'll have a constant stream of buses going up and down the highway, when there's a perfectly good railway to use right beside it. You heartless fiend! Too late to apologize, cause you've already done it. A 3 hour cruise up Howe Sound wouldn't actually be that bad if it was in a real boat, and not a K-barge. But maybe that's emblematic of the obsession our glorious public figures have with the Olympics, while saddling the rest of us for the cost of them. Maybe they are only selling us a bright mirage of comfort and entertainment, when underneath, all we'll be getting is a barren desert (or a K-barge). So that would also be why, Mr Green Campbell can't comprehend using a railway to move people, either. Why would think of moving several hundred people in a train, in relative comfort, with no traffic delays, when you can just use 4 or 5 busses to do the same thing, and plug up the highway... that's real green; real intelligent. |
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Mar 3, 2009 12:02:15 GMT -8
The Albion ferry has once again provided rescue services in a strange incident on the Fraser River.
Alcohol suspected in Fraser River boating fatality
By Monique Tamminga - Langley Times
Published: March 02, 2009 9:00 PM
Updated: March 03, 2009 7:24 AM
One man is dead and another critically injured in what may be an impaired boating crash on the Fraser River on Monday evening.
Around 5:30 p.m., Albion ferry staff noticed a 12-foot aluminum motorized boat being driven erratically around the ferry, going through the swells of the ferry wake and making zigzags back and forth, said Capt. Dave Miller.
"The boat took a sharp turn and one of the men was thrown from the boat," said Miller.
The man still on the boat turned the watercraft around to go get the other man. But when he did, witnesses report the man in the water, who weighed over 300 pounds, grabbed the side of the boat, causing it to turn over quickly.
By then, Albion Ferry staff, who are trained in water rescues, used both ferries to reach the overturned watercraft, dropping their Zodiac boats to aid the men. They managed to get there in five minutes.
Sadly, when they arrived, the first man thrown from the boat was already dead. The other man was taken to the Maple Ridge side and rushed to hospital. Miller said he appeared in 'grave' condition with cuts to his head, he said.
The survivng man appeared intoxicated, said Miller. Both men are believed to be middle aged to older men.
The rescue closed down [the] Albion Ferry on both sides of the river until 7:30 p.m.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Mar 27, 2009 21:11:36 GMT -8
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Post by fargowolf on Mar 28, 2009 19:44:57 GMT -8
Damn.... I'm gonna miss those ferries. I sure enjoyed riding them when I lived in North Van. The new bridge is NOT convenient in any way shape or form. Those who live in Maple ridge will have to drive either to Mission, and cross on the Mission Bridge, or drive to the PoCo area and cross on the new bridge.
As for TransLink... I have a few words to say about that outfit, but the Moderators would toss me overboard if I used said words here... I'm probably not the only one who feels this way either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2009 21:09:37 GMT -8
It's all about priorities ...... at this point in our history ..... Gordo and Company. They can spend a billion ( 700 million + ) on the highway to the ski hill and blow a few billion on the rest of the five ring circus but the people that pay the bills have to pay extra "tolls" to get around or between their communities by bridge or ferry. Some day when someone wants to get re-elected, they'll drop the tolls a bit for a while before they raise them again. And the rich get richer .... I hear it's going to be sunny tomorrow!
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 28, 2009 21:47:13 GMT -8
Damn.... I'm gonna miss those ferries. I sure enjoyed riding them when I lived in North Van. The new bridge is NOT convenient in any way shape or form. Those who live in Maple ridge will have to drive either to Mission, and cross on the Mission Bridge, or drive to the PoCo area and cross on the new bridge. As for TransLink... I have a few words to say about that outfit, but the Moderators would toss me overboard if I used said words here... I'm probably not the only one who feels this way either. I see that you live in Kamloops. Maybe those ferries are more fun the further away you get from them. For commuters used to an hour's wait for a five minute crossing, I expect the new bridge, tolled or not, looks like a significant improvement. The ferries have been an anachronism for some time now, especially in a region with such strong growth. |
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Mar 28, 2009 22:41:08 GMT -8
I see that you live in Kamloops. Maybe those ferries are more fun the further away you get from them. For commuters used to an hour's wait for a five minute crossing, I expect the new bridge, tolled or not, looks like a significant improvement. The ferries have been an anachronism for some time now, especially in a region with such strong growth. This has got me wondering, yet again, why they seriously think they need to mess with something that works. The traffic levels for the ferry clearly indicate that there is significant demand for a river crossing at that particular location. Every other ferry crossing on the Fraser that's been bypassed has been so with a crossing at the same location... the Golden Ears does not exactly follow the same course as the ferry. I was very confused when I realized that the new bridge was taking the 200th street corridor. Who would need to cross the river there? I wondered, since the Port Mann is close enough. Of course the Port Mann has it's own issues, but does the Golden Ears Crossing really seem like any more of a direct route? Who really goes from Langley for Poco? People from Poco commute west into Vancouver, as do people from Langley, hence the Port Mann parade everyday. Does it make sense and will people be willing to drive in a circle around their regular route, pay a toll and then still get stuck in another traffic mess somewhere else? Every highway that currently goes through the Langley area eventually ends up in Surrey or Vancouver... general traffic flows are into Vancouver, so why build a bridge there that directs traffic north, just so it will have to double back to get back to Vancouver where it really wants to go. The people that need to get across the river, are the ones already using the Albion crossing because it is a more direct route for them, even with the time spent in waiting... the Golden Ears Bridge is only going to make everybody end up driving in big circles and loops, on indirect routes with the so-called return investment being less time spent in lineups waiting... In the lower mainland??? Really??? And don't be fooled by a nice new crossing and interchange at the Pitt River, either... it's just another band aid solution: the rest of the length of both the Mary Hill and the Lougheed is choked with lights in either direction once you get off the Golden Ears mainline route. It is simply going to become like another Alex Fraser... a bridge designed for a freeway style flow constricted at its outflow with antiquated, suburban highways cluttered with lights, which only means one thing: congestion, and no real ease of traffic movement over the current arrangement at peak times. At peak times, drivers will likely be stuck in lineups waiting to get on the bridge for just as long as they'd be waiting in line for the ferry, with lots more idling (cough, cough, Gordon). In addition, I've driven the section from Haney to the connections with the Golden Ears mainline numerous times and, even with good traffic flow, it still takes a significant amount of time to get there through all the lights, although maybe the construction for the bridge itself had some influence on that. The point is: why build a bridge designed to operate like a freeway, and then dump everyone off of it into just another traffic mess at the other end, and still several kilos from there actual destination both east and West anyway. It's all done with now, anyway, but I personally think if they had any intelligence, they would leave the ferry in operation just because, it could still serve a function because the Albion site is still a significant crossing. Besides... compared to the cost of the bridge, keeping the ferry in operation for the next several decades should only be pennies in the pot now. The tolls will no doubt also stay on the bridge long after it is paid for anyway, so just dip into that windfall and you've got another crossing that is almost free to operate for the price of building one new bridge. |
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Post by landlocked on Mar 29, 2009 6:53:37 GMT -8
Let's get something straight about the Golden Ears Bridge. That project was not even on TransLinks radar when they got up and running. It was not a project they'd even considered. It was the citizens of the region, particularly the north side, that brought it to the forefront. When it became clear to TransLink that the folks north of the Fraser wanted a crossing and their research said they were willing to pay for it with a toll, the project got underway.
With respect to the ferry, there was a plan to slice and dice the ferries early on in the game. Total cost about 7 million. The boats would be 50 cars with 4 rads. It was a very inexpensive job. By the time TransLink and the local communities got finished with it, the total job had to about 13M, and the locals were concerned if the ferries were stretched, the bridge would never get built. Absolutely NOBODY, except maybe the customers, wanted the ferries enlarged.
When the Lions Gate dilemma was going on (rebuild vs replace), the cost was estimated to be about $100M. The Golden Ears will be about $700M, due to the expensive footings required on the river. While TransLink at the time repeated over and over that the Golden Ears would be self sustaining, it won't. It needs every dime it can get to make a go of itself, simply because of the cost. One item that was supposed to have been retired, funding of the ferries, will continue, but now will be directed to helping pay down the capital cost of the bridge. There's no money to operate the ferries, and if you do, you will be detracting from the bridge revenue, so badly needed to make the projcect even close to being viable.
While there is a logical argument to continue to run the ferries, there is no money to run them and they will detract revenue from the bridge. No ferries, and with all amazement, the communities that hated them, now want them to stay. Hmmm....what a funny world.
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