CP's BC Coast Service: general thread

[bcfcbcsscollector]

pscurr said:

Early transportation of the coast. Three vessels arriving at Sturdies Bay. Do not know the names other than the Motor Princess.

This is the C.P.R. coastal steamer Princess Royal. The giveaway is the name carved on a wood plaque at the bow (I believe the Beatrice had it too). There are other markers, but the name plate is the most significant.

[Low Light Mike]

My wife is reading the book "Cougar Annie's Garden". The book, set on west-coast of Vancouver Island (near Tofino), mentions the ship: Princess Maquinna.

There was a picture of the Maquinna, and she did have the classic look of a CP ship, with the outside passenger deck coverings (someone could likely articulate this feature better than me.....).

[Queen of Nanaimo Teen]

Thanks for the pictures of Maquinna Graham! I've always liked that ship to. Just a question for everyone. When you see the name "Maquinna" How do you say it? When I first saw it (I am wrong) I pronouncec it "Princess Mackenna" And if you say "Princess Ma- Quinn- a" fast it sounds like you're saying Mackenna.....

[Neil]

The CPR Station, with the Princess Charlotte at dock, circa 1910. I was curious as to where this photograph would have been taken from, as Vancouver didn't have any tall buildings back then. Vancouver Public Library photo.

[Neil]

Mr Horn- Thanks for posting those interesting accounts. We've got our fan talk, and our usual issues, but it's really worthwhile to get the perspective of people for whom the coastal steamers were a real life line.

Another post card- hopefully this hasn't been posted already. Don't know what the vessel to the left of the Kathleen is.

[Low Light Mike]

hornbyguy said:

Another post card- hopefully this hasn't been posted already. Don't know what the vessel to the left of the Kathleen is.

I've just quickly browsed through Turner's "Pacific Princesses" book, looking at all the single-funnel ships. None of them match, re the distinguishing features.

I conclude that the ship on the left is an example of artistic license.

However, the mystery-ship's row of rectangular windows reminds me of deck-6 on the Queen of the North......

[Neil]

I was wondering if that boat might have been an invention, given the rather odd look of the postcard. Oh well. Perhaps that makes the card more of a curio.

[WettCoast]

Yes, this vessel does not look like any CPR west coast steamer that I have seen in any pictures. The square windows remind me of the Princess Elaine. But she had 3 funnels and was quite a bit larger than the vessel in this picture. Artistic license - maybe...

[Retrovision]

It looks that she might be a Port Angeles, etc., bound vessel as apparently she's docked bow-to at what up until a couple decades ago was the Black Ball terminal. Thanks for that.

[Retrovision]

Some additions...


CPR Fleet as of 1959
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p45877117.html


"Looking more like a torpedo boat than an elegant coastal liner, the Princess Victoria is shown shortly after her arrival at Victoria on March 28, 1903. All of her wooden superstructure and passenger accomodation had yet to be fitted before she could enter service" -Provincial Archives
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p45877114.html


"Princess Joan whistles her last farewell to Seattle as she prepares to leave her pier for last winter run to Victoria"
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p45877119.html


GTP's Prince Rupert
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p45877116.html


GTP's Prince George
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p45877118.html


Grand Trunk Pacific - CPR Competitor - "Prince David contrast with tall-stacked Prince Rupert," upper-right
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p45877121.html


"Prince Henry, a product of the 1930's"
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p45877115.html


"The second Prince George, wearing Candian National colours, works her way up the British Columbia coast"
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p45877120.html

[EGfleet]

hornbyguy said:

Mr Horn- Thanks for posting those interesting accounts. We've got our fan talk, and our usual issues, but it's really worthwhile to get the perspective of people for whom the coastal steamers were a real life line.

Another post card- hopefully this hasn't been posted already. Don't know what the vessel to the left of the Kathleen is.

If they had her funnel color correct, it would have been easier to ID her...that's the S.S. Olympic, which ran the Port Angeles-Victoria run before the Iroquois took over in '41.
www.evergreenfleet.com/olympic1911.html

[bcfcbccsscollector]

Hi all,

Time to wade in on this one. This is indeed a very old view and I am pretty sure I know which ship it is and why. The funnel color I am certain is accurate, which makes this Canadian Pacific. Now, in 1923, Canadian Pacific built the first diesel in it's fleet that year, designed to carry vehicles. It was also RO-RO. You can see in the view it is docked bow first. The profile shows clearly it as RO-RO. The bridge and cabin immediately aft, along with the funnel and size clearly point to one ship......Motor Princess. She was sold to Gulf Islands ferry in the 50s and converted to what we all knew as the Pender Queen.

The only thing that doesn't fit, are the cabin windows under the life boat stations. However, this could have been modified by the publisher, or in fact this is one of the earliest views of the ship. Those windows alone, versus all the other design traits point strait at the C.P.R.'s "Motor Princess".

Cheers,

Darren

[bcfcbccsscollector]

Wow!

I should have checked the link before posting The resemblance is striking (With minor changes) but Steve's pic leaves no doubt about which ship it is...You the man!

[Mill Bay]

It can't be the "Motor Princess". The deckhouse behind the pilot-house isn't the right size and the portholes on the passenger deck and the vehicle deck are the wrong shape and arrangement. I'm pretty sure it is the Olympic like Evergreenfleet says.

www.saltspringarchives.com/garydunn/transp_shipping/images/286.jpg

[bcfcbccsscollector]

"Mill Bay"..

Please read my post right above yours....

[Mill Bay]

O.k., I guess that makes it doubly and trebly confirmed in this case.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

From the shippingtimes:
A couple of nice photos on the website.
www.shippingtimes.co.uk/launch_111_29-11.htm

Launch Anniversary of the Day
tss PRINCESS MARGUERITE
29th November 1924

A company famed for its great liners was the Canadian Pacific Railway, especially in the home waters where this website is produced, the Clyde. Older residents of this area well remember the great white hulled liners that somehow looked even grander than the Cunarders in their own way.

But CPR was also famed for their beautiful coastal passenger ships, one of which was the PRINCESS MARGUERITE launched today November 1924 at the John Brown shipyard in Clydebank.

A supremely elegant and luxurious turbine steamer of 5875 tons, with three distinctive funnels she, and her sister vessel PRINCESS KATHLEEN also built by John Brown soon proved popular on her regular route running between Seattle, Victoria and Vancouver.

Referred to as 'miniature liners' both ships were fast, attaining speeds in excess of 22 knots and were well appointed for the comfort of passengers.

After departing the Clydebank yard on 25th March 1925 she arrived at Victoria on the 20th April and settled into service that would uninterrupted until 1941 when the British Admiralty requisitioned her as a troop transport.


In her glory days

During her peacetime service she was graced by the presence of King George and Queen Elizabeth on their 1939 Canadian tour, crossing from Vancouver to Victoria. Their Majesties would likely have been as impressed with her as her regular passengers, fitted as she was with first class en suite staterooms and no doubt would have been well pleased with the smoking room, panelled with Indian carvings.

As stated above, all this was to come to an end in 1941 when she was pressed into service as a troop ship. Her attractive black and white livery with yellow and black funnels was brushed out with wartime grey she departed Canada on 7th November 1941 for Honolulu, along with her equally drably painted sister, and eventually reached Port Said in January 1942 where they commenced their troop carrying roles.

For seven months PRINCESS MARGUERITE ferried troops around the Med until the morning of August 17th. She had departed Port Said as usual with her cargo of troops when UBoat 83 spotted her in the afternoon and at 15:07 sent 4 torpedoes into the hapless vessel that caused her to catch fire. Men scrambled into lifeboats, or jumped into to the sea, evading the fuel oil that was burning on the waters. Five of her crew and 44 troops were killed, but 119 crew and 954 troops survived, being rescued by HMS HERO and taken back to Port Said.

At four minutes before four o'clock, the once handsome and much loved PRINCESS MARGUERITE, now a burning wreck, slid beneath the waves and yet another fine product of the Roaring Twenties was a victim of war.

[Scott]

With Remembrance Day coming up along with my constant interest in BC History and the World Wars, I was wondering if anyone had any stories (first or second hand) or photos of our "ferries" (the steamships and other coastal passenger ships) and how they were impacted during the war.

Obviously, as far as I know, there were no ships sunk on Canada's Pacific coast during World War II - unlike the Atlantic coast. But doing some very basic research I did discover that there was quite the fear of Japanese attack during the war. Some of the ferries were outfitted with AA guns and some that ventured out into open waters followed a zig-zag course to complicate a torpedo attack.

Additionally, I think most if not all the ships were painted in war-time "camouflage" colors to help avoid visual detection. I also read that the schedules for the steamships that served the west coast of the Island were not published to protect from attack.

With the reported attack on Estevan Lighthouse, I believe some ferry service on the west and north coasts were suspended for a few days.

I recall that the Princess Marguerite was torpedoed and sunk in the Mediterranean during WWII while she was being used as a troop transporter. I think some of the Empresses may have been lost too - but in military service.

I'd love to hear any more stories or see photos of our ferries in wartime that anyone on the forum might have.

[Northern Exploration]

I know there were a string of lookout sites such as Radar Hill on between Tofino and Long Beach. The wasn't the series of roads that there were these days and I know a lot of the communities on both sides of the Island were dependent on little steamers like the Mary Rose and Uchek to keep them sporatically supplied. I believe there were spotters as well on what would become the West Coast Trail. I am not sure when the telegraph lines were put in along that route for communication in case of shipwrecks but I believe spotters also used radio. On the west side of the Island I know Mt. Provost near Duncan had a radar installation for the strait. The west coast was very fearful of a Japanese attack and especially any airports because they thought they would attack and seize them so they could attach the mainland US.

[Low Light Mike]

pnwtraveler said:

...and I know a lot of the communities on both sides of the Island were dependent on little steamers like the Mary Rose and Uchek to keep them sporatically supplied.

I am enjoying this discussion, and I read all of PNW's reply, but I just need to point out one minor item, for purposes of clarity.

- Lady Rose is the ship that's on our west coast.

- Mary Rose was Henry VIII's ship, that is now restored and displayed at Portsmouth (I think that's the city).

[Northern Exploration]

LOL some day I will learn to not type so fast and actually think.

[Deleted]

When my parents came to Canada in 1949, they came across the Atlantic on The Cunard White Star Line---The ship, was still like a troop ship. She had not been converted back to a regular Cruise Ship. At that time in Britain, they still had rationing of certain goods. Most of the money had gone into the war effort, and millions of lives and equipment---ships, planes, tanks and other things were lost. It took quite awhile for things to improve.

Fort Rodd Hill National Park is another example of a war fortress here in the Victoria Area. It is near the lighthouse across from Esquimalt Graving dock.

In the area of Gonzales Hill, just down from the old Weather Observatory, there is an old lookout bunker. We use to play in it when we were kids.

[Scott]

Here's a little more of what I've read:

With the war effort (World War II) came a boom to BC's coastal economy, which provided lots of business to coastal steamships. Tourism trips almost disappeared but it was replaced by moving workers and troops to various bases and centers of activity along the coast. Robert Turner points out in "The Pacific Princesses", that since car travel was significantly cut back, the car-ferry Motor Princess was one boat that actually saw a decrease in service. He also says that the coastal steamships were "painted battleship grey and some were armed with anti-aircraft weapons" (pg. 167).

Turner summarizes the war years on page 173 of his book:

The war years were hard on the Princesses. The older vessels were pressed into demanding services that hastened the end of their useful lives. At the same time, needed replacement programs had to be delayed for many years.

[Scott]

On page 173 of "The Pacific Princesses", Robert Turner relates this war-time near-catastrophe:

Later that year [1943] the Princess Joan was involved in a potentially even more hazardous accident when she rammed and sank the steamer Squid off Point Grey during the early morning hours of October 12th. The Princess Joan was on the Vancouver to Victoria night boat run with 400 passengers onboard, while the Squid was carrying 25 tons of explosives to Britannia Beach on Howe Sound. Fortunately, the Squid's cargo was dynamite, a fairly stable explosive, and it did not ignite. If it had, the results might well have been catastrophic. As it turned out, the Princess took the five-man crew of the Squid onboard and proceeded to port without further incident.

[Scott]

Another story from Robert Turner's "The Pacific Princesses". Phrases in quotes are his words.

Two of British Columbia's Princesses served in the war overseas. The Princess Marguerite and Princess Kathleen were requisitioned by the British Royal Navy in the fall of 1941 for use as "aircraft carrier support ships". The promenade and smoking lounges, the dining room, and most of the staterooms were stripped to accommodate as many troops as possible. And talk about a long trip for the Coastal Renaissance, the two Princesses departed Victoria for Alexandria, Egypt via places like Hawaii, Ceylon (Sri Lanka), and the Suez Canal. Once in Egypt, the British decided they'd be better as troop ships and their first job was the evacuation of British personnel from Alexandria.

On the afternoon of August 17, 1942, the Princess Marguerite was torpedoed by the German sub U-82. The steamship was en route to Cyprus with over 1,300 British troops aboard with an escort of three destroyers. The Princess caught fire but stayed afloat for 40 minutes allowing almost all on-board to escape. Only 55 people died. Although the incident occurred in the summer of '42, "news" of the sinking didn't reach British Columbia until the beginning of 1945, two and a half years later - near the end of the war.

From BC Archives (linked from my website):


Incidentally, the U-82 was sunk four months later by the RAF (Royal Air Force).


As for the Princess Kathleen, Turner says she "was more fortunate than her ill-fated sister ship. In some 250,000 miles of wartime service, she was untouched by the Axis forces." She "saw" some very historic events in the Mediterranean. Turner writes, "She sailed both alone and in convoy to Malta during the German siege of the Island, carried invasion troops to Tobruk and to Italy, and witnessed the surrender of the Italian fleet in 1944. Later she was present at the surrender of the enemy forces on Rhodes and took onboard as prisoner General Wagner, the German commander. She also carried Jewish refugees to Palestine and transported thousands of Allied soldiers being reassigned as the war in the Mediterranean came to a close. Finally, in 1946, she was relinquished by the British Admiralty and returned to the CPR." (pg 169).

On her arrival home to Victoria, the Kathleen was greeted by a tug, her sister ship the Princess Joan, various government and company dignitaries, and crowds of people. Turner also tells the story, on page 177, of Sandy the cat, who stayed with the Kathleen for the entire war other than going AWOL for 3 months in Tripoli.

On her return, the Princess Kathleen underwent a 1.5 million dollar refit to rebuild her passenger accommodations. She ended her days on the Alaska route. Her end was similar to the Queen of the North's. Miscommunication on the bridge led to the Princess sailing head-on into Lena Point, Alaska, in the early hours of the morning. Fortunately, she was grounded and kept afloat for several hours before she was abandoned.


As well as being related in "The Pacific Princesses", these stories are also well-told in "Those Beautiful Coastal Liners", also by Robert Turner. In the days leading up to Remembrance Day, I'll try and pull some more "war time" stories from books I have and share them here.