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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 23:12:57 GMT -8
The original Bow of the CP's Princess of Vancouver did go missing in the dry dock. But it is not what you think.
CP Princess of Vancouver was in the dry dock being modified to fit in with the rest of the fleet. The original bow was taken off and was replaced with the front doors so as to make it a roll on roll off ferry. At that time, it was assumed that the Princess of Vancouver would be staying with BC Ferries for the foreseeable future and the bow was more than likely discarded.(sent to the metal recycle place). Less than a year,(8 months seems to be the figure that pops out of my brain) after this happened, the Government decided that the Princess of Vancouver was going to join the BC Steamship Fleet, as the secondary vessel. The Princess Marguerite had some very serious problems, according to my shipyard friends who had worked on her. It's a miracle that she didn't have an accident or even sink. We don't know how the Princess Marguerite passed the insurance inspection.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Feb 5, 2009 13:13:13 GMT -8
I know this has been posted before, somewhere... but here is the link to the images of the Princess of Vancouver having her bow replaced, also showing her in expo colors... but i'm suddenly thinking that the bow was actually removed sometime earlier, at the time she became part of the ministry of highways fleet, because i have a picture of her operating at Little River, in ministry colours with her bow open for bow loading. www.shmmarine.com/html/index2.html
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Post by Dane on Feb 5, 2009 23:14:18 GMT -8
Her bow was cut in 1982. It was tendered by the Ministry.
The vessel was put up for sale by CP in May 81, delivered in June to Highways, and the contract went out almost immediately. It was $8,995,000 for all work including the bow cut, installation of platforms, removal of the galley, and substantial electrical upgrades.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Feb 5, 2009 23:23:14 GMT -8
Her bow was cut in 1982. It was tendered by the Ministry. The vessel was put up for sale by CP in May 81, delivered in June to Highways, and the contract went out almost immediately. It was $8,995,000 for all work including the bow cut, installation of platforms, removal of the galley, and substantial electrical upgrades. What?! That seems like a pretty big pricetag, even for the '80s. Those most have been pretty substantial upgrades, and are you sure they also added platforms? I can see the removal of the galley, however. There would have been no more need for full dining service on a simple car ferry, but I assume they would have replaced it with a cafeteria. I went and found her page on www.faktaomfartyg.se/ for the period after she was VANCOUVER ISLAND PRINCESS, with a picture of her in Stena colors... somehow, she looks very small tied up to the dock in Victoria harbor. www.faktaomfartyg.se/vancouver_island_princess_1955_b_1.htm
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Post by Dane on Feb 5, 2009 23:38:37 GMT -8
I am sure. It's documented in text and photos in the appropriate issue of "Harbour & Shipping" available at SFU's Bennet Library.
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 6, 2009 17:54:57 GMT -8
Here is a newspaper clipping regarding the conversion... The Province - Vancouver - 1982-Feb-21 regarding the Princess of Vancouver modifications, This was likely written by Mark Wilson, the Province's marine beat reporter of the time.
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Post by bcferryfan87 on Feb 7, 2009 0:26:18 GMT -8
The original Bow of the CP's Princess of Vancouver did go missing in the dry dock. But it is not what you think. CP Princess of Vancouver was in the dry dock being modified to fit in with the rest of the fleet. The original bow was taken off and was replaced with the front doors so as to make it a roll on roll off ferry. At that time, it was assumed that the Princess of Vancouver would be staying with BC Ferries for the foreseeable future and the bow was more than likely discarded.(sent to the metal recycle place). Less than a year,(8 months seems to be the figure that pops out of my brain) after this happened, the Government decided that the Princess of Vancouver was going to join the BC Steamship Fleet, as the secondary vessel. The Princess Marguerite had some very serious problems, according to my shipyard friends who had worked on her. It's a miracle that she didn't have an accident or even sink. We don't know how the Princess Marguerite passed the insurance inspection. I'm curious if you have any other detail about the Maggie, as to what "problems" she had. I wish the powers that be had found a way to keep that ship in Victoria as some sort of tied up museum -like the Sicamous in Penticton, or Queen mary in Long Beach. I often somehow hope that we're going to find out that she is tied up somewhere in not too bad shape...but I know, I've heard she made her way to Alang.
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Post by Starsteward on Feb 7, 2009 12:04:14 GMT -8
There were no functional problems with the 'Maggie" The problems were entirely political in nature. In the 1970's the Maggie was to be joined by the 'Prince George' as the CN wanted to get rid of her. The then Dave Barrett NDP government was all set to get the Maggie and the 'George' into full gear doing Seattle/Victoria and perhaps Vancouver runs. Then Mr. Barrett went and lost the damn election and the Socreds under 'Bennett the Younger' were in no mood to get into the transportation business other than run BC Ferries. The sale of the George fell through, the Maggie still very sound, was stripped of her furnishings and sold for scrap. I believe she outwitted the cuttings torches by sinking. Political philosophies and short sightedness ruled the day.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 7, 2009 16:12:44 GMT -8
There were no functional problems with the 'Maggie" The problems were entirely political in nature. In the 1970's the Maggie was to be joined by the 'Prince George' as the CN wanted to get rid of her. The then Dave Barrett NDP government was all set to get the Maggie and the 'George' into full gear doing Seattle/Victoria and perhaps Vancouver runs. Then Mr. Barrett went and lost the d*** election and the Socreds under 'Bennett the Younger' were in no mood to get into the transportation business other than run BC Ferries. The sale of the George fell through, the Maggie still very sound, was stripped of her furnishings and sold for scrap. I believe she outwitted the cuttings torches by sinking. Political philosophies and short sightedness ruled the day. Politics, yes, but not quite on that timeline. Dave Barrett and the NDP were defeated in '75; the Maggie ran until '89. She wasn't scrapped until '96.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2009 21:55:37 GMT -8
I'm sorry that I have taken so long to reply to this thread, but I wanted to talk to a couple of my dad's friends, people who knew him when he worked for CPR in the fifties. (Unfortunately, they were of no help)
We never rode on the Maggie after BC Ferries started to run. We always took the BC Ferry and drove into the States. Partly it was because of the cost, it was cheaper for us to go the way we were going. My Dad had said that the BC Ferries were a newer and a more safer ship to travel on. When my dad heard about the incident that I will describe in this post he told me never to go on the Maggie again, under any circumstances.
When Dave Barrett, formed The BC Steamship Co., my Dad told me that he thought that Dave Barrett was nuts. Mr. Barrett was into the Romance of having Tourists coming to Victoria on a historical ship. So that was his motivation, but the Maggie was already becoming a money pit. CPR probably abandoned service. and sold Maggie because of her condition. Maggie's condition was that the plate on her hull, which used to be 1/2 inch thick, was now anywhere from 1/4 inch to paper thin in thickness. And I am talking about the plate just above and under the water line. The support bars in the double bottoms, were rusting out as well, as other areas of the boat which were rusting. As with some of the Cruise ships, the areas that the public sees are very good, but the areas that are off limits to the public are not kept up so well. About a month, each year, before the Maggie would go into service, she would made a visit to the Esquimalt dry dock for some repairs. During the first couple of years that she was owned by BC Steamship Co., this incident happened. Some of the Yarrows Shipyard workers, were sent down to the double bottoms to repair some of the rusted angle bar support beams. A co-worker of my husbands, accidentally hit the side shell and saw daylight.(Boat was in the dry dock at the time and was repaired) The area was below the water line and the side shell was paper thin. Now if the Maggie had been in the water and hit by a deadhead in that area, What would have happened? Would she have sunk? Would there have been loss of life? the shipyard guys nickname for the Maggie was "The Floating Coffin" after that. The rust in the double bottoms of the Maggie, was the worst of any ship that my husband has ever done repair work on. Only the worst areas were fixed. None of the side shell was ever replaced. How the Maggie ever passed the Insurance Inspection is unbelievable. Many people in the ship building industry would not sail on the Maggie and some would have told their friends. Maggie in the eyes of the people who were working for the shipyard doing repairs on her, thought that she was not safe to sail on. The government may have known about the condition of the Maggie and that may be the real reason BC Steamship was sold to Stena. During the last year of service, the Maggies condition was probably why she was only a passenger ferry-maybe they couldn't get insurance for her to be a car and passenger ferry as well. The Princess of Vancouver used to take all the over height vehicles-campers, trucks and motor homes. She was about 10 years younger than Maggie. I remember watching the Stena CEO, telling a news reporter that he did not want to put any more money into the boats. I can only guess, but it is likely that the insurance company had said to them we'll insure you this year but if you want insurance next year, you'll have to fix this and that. When I was very young, we did ride on the Princess Pat and Maggie, whenever we went over to Vancouver.
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Post by bcferryfan87 on Mar 27, 2009 8:02:16 GMT -8
I'm sorry that I have taken so long to reply to this thread, but I wanted to talk to a couple of my dad's friends, people who knew him when he worked for CPR in the fifties. (Unfortunately, they were of no help) We never rode on the Maggie after BC Ferries started to run. We always took the BC Ferry and drove into the States. Partly it was because of the cost, it was cheaper for us to go the way we were going. My Dad had said that the BC Ferries were a newer and a more safer ship to travel on. When my dad heard about the incident that I will describe in this post he told me never to go on the Maggie again, under any circumstances. When Dave Barrett, formed The BC Steamship Co., my Dad told me that he thought that Dave Barrett was nuts. Mr. Barrett was into the Romance of having Tourists coming to Victoria on a historical ship. So that was his motivation, but the Maggie was already becoming a money pit. CPR probably abandoned service. and sold Maggie because of her condition. Maggie's condition was that the plate on her hull, which used to be 1/2 inch thick, was now anywhere from 1/4 inch to paper thin in thickness. And I am talking about the plate just above and under the water line. The support bars in the double bottoms, were rusting out as well, as other areas of the boat which were rusting. As with some of the Cruise ships, the areas that the public sees are very good, but the areas that are off limits to the public are not kept up so well. About a month, each year, before the Maggie would go into service, she would made a visit to the Esquimalt dry dock for some repairs. During the first couple of years that she was owned by BC Steamship Co., this incident happened. Some of the Yarrows Shipyard workers, were sent down to the double bottoms to repair some of the rusted angle bar support beams. A co-worker of my husbands, accidentally hit the side shell and saw daylight.(Boat was in the dry dock at the time and was repaired) The area was below the water line and the side shell was paper thin. Now if the Maggie had been in the water and hit by a deadhead in that area, What would have happened? Would she have sunk? Would there have been loss of life? the shipyard guys nickname for the Maggie was "The Floating Coffin" after that. The rust in the double bottoms of the Maggie, was the worst of any ship that my husband has ever done repair work on. Only the worst areas were fixed. None of the side shell was ever replaced. How the Maggie ever passed the Insurance Inspection is unbelievable. Many people in the ship building industry would not sail on the Maggie and some would have told their friends. Maggie in the eyes of the people who were working for the shipyard doing repairs on her, thought that she was not safe to sail on. The government may have known about the condition of the Maggie and that may be the real reason BC Steamship was sold to Stena. During the last year of service, the Maggies condition was probably why she was only a passenger ferry-maybe they couldn't get insurance for her to be a car and passenger ferry as well. The Princess of Vancouver used to take all the over height vehicles-campers, trucks and motor homes. She was about 10 years younger than Maggie. I remember watching the Stena CEO, telling a news reporter that he did not want to put any more money into the boats. I can only guess, but it is likely that the insurance company had said to them we'll insure you this year but if you want insurance next year, you'll have to fix this and that. When I was very young, we did ride on the Princess Pat and Maggie, whenever we went over to Vancouver. That is quite sickening if this is true; not doubting the author, but obviously Someone knows the facts - and assuming these points above are facts, and that people were at a realistic risk beyond safety guidelines is sickening. Something to think about, that if this ship was sailing with an unsafe hull, imagine if there had been some sort of accident; unlikely we will ever know how factual this really is!
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Post by Starsteward on Mar 27, 2009 15:54:36 GMT -8
Sorry gang, I was thinking of the SS Prince George that the NDP was going to buy. Beautiful old ship but you all know the history.
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Post by princessofvanfan on Jun 11, 2009 20:34:34 GMT -8
The P.o.V. was an interesting ship, but SLOW. It barely seemed like you were moving while underway, and downtown Vancouver would come into view but it still took an hour to get to the terminal. And the Princess Lounge! I find it amazing that a car ferry running a 2 1/2 hour crossing would have a bar on board. And, yes, having to go throught he car deck to get to the forward lounge was a bit odd. But, I really liked her. She was a proud and strong looking ship with tons of character. I'm glad to have sailed on her.
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Post by princessofvanfan on Aug 6, 2009 19:17:25 GMT -8
I have an old bar menu from the Princess of Vancouver, and on the back it says "the large vehicle deck has space for 28 freight cars OR 115 automobiles and trucks." Could it be that the upper car deck, between the forward lounge and cafeteria, was originally passenger accommidation, with cars going onto the main train deck? This would explain the strange reason why you had to go through the car deck to access the lounge and caf.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Aug 6, 2009 19:27:54 GMT -8
Yes, as originally designed that was lounge space. As Black Ball ships became more competitive with the CPR, they added space in one of the lounges.
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Post by princessofvanfan on Aug 7, 2009 2:38:27 GMT -8
Or, could it be that the C.P.R. needed more vehicle and rail car capacity on the P.o.V.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Aug 7, 2009 3:55:38 GMT -8
My guess is that the upper car deck was established by the CPR so that the PRINCESS OF VANCOUVER could be highly flexible. She could carry a nice load of standard cars on the upper car deck and rail cars below.
She was one of the rarest of ferries having big picture glass windows on a car deck.
Also, CPR took reservations for cars on the Vancouver - Nanaimo run.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 29, 2009 9:58:31 GMT -8
A few postcards that we bought at the Maritime Museum of BC's gift shop, for $0.60 each. 2 of the ship that I remember as CP's Princess of Vancouver: There's an old friend in the background of this one And here's a collector's item. Gotta love that sloppy detail work!
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ProudCanuck
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Post by ProudCanuck on Aug 30, 2009 9:07:24 GMT -8
A few postcards that we bought at the Maritime Museum of BC's gift shop, for $0.60 each. And here's a collector's item. Gotta love that sloppy detail work! Rundle Park eh?... glad to see that they did their homework! Is that located on Salt Spring Island in Bizzaro world?
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Post by princessofvanfan on Sept 7, 2009 12:21:12 GMT -8
Here's a photo of the Princess of Van in the old Expo colors, getting her bow re-attached. Attachments:
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 17, 2009 16:53:03 GMT -8
The P.o.V. was an interesting ship, but SLOW. It barely seemed like you were moving while underway, and downtown Vancouver would come into view but it still took an hour to get to the terminal. And the Princess Lounge! I find it amazing that a car ferry running a 2 1/2 hour crossing would have a bar on board. And, yes, having to go throught he car deck to get to the forward lounge was a bit odd. But, I really liked her. She was a proud and strong looking ship with tons of character. I'm glad to have sailed on her. Here's another one for POVfan: forums.railfan.net/image.cgi?Vancouver/19810400-03_861x576.jpg
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Sept 30, 2009 14:06:13 GMT -8
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Post by waynem on Oct 19, 2009 14:00:20 GMT -8
The Princess of Vancouver was one of the most beautiful looking ships to ever sail the BC coast. I wish she could have stayed around here. Does anyone know of her current status in China ?
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 19, 2009 15:08:01 GMT -8
The Princess of Vancouver was one of the most beautiful looking ships to ever sail the BC coast. I wish she could have stayed around here. Does anyone know of her current status in China ? According to Mr. Stapleton's website, this: www.pbase.com/kstapleton/image/58097840
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Post by northwesterner on Oct 19, 2009 18:46:11 GMT -8
The Princess of Vancouver was one of the most beautiful looking ships to ever sail the BC coast. I wish she could have stayed around here. Really? I don't think she's that great looking. To each his own. I think one of the reasons vessels like the PoV with not-so-good not-so-bad but classic lines look so good these days is because we're getting used to ubermodern, no lines, wedding cakes like the Coastals. I'm not trashing all modern ferries here; I think the NorEx has stunning lines and is a good example of a modern ferry with a big, modern bridge, that still looks great. On the other hand, the slightly older Princess of Nanaimo, with her tall, swept single stack, was beautiful. I would have loved to see her spend many more years on the Pacific Coast than she did.
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