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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 13, 2012 22:15:34 GMT -8
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Post by glasseye on Jan 13, 2012 23:41:00 GMT -8
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 14, 2012 15:48:27 GMT -8
Updates from BBC News: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16561904It seems almost unfathomable that something like this can still occur today with all of the modern navigational equipment, and especially under fair conditions like this ship was sailing in - no storm, no fog. Yet, things like this still seem to happen, most especially with overcrowded ferries in third world countries. You don't, however, expect it to happen on modern cruise ships in the developed parts of the world anymore. There will be a lot of questions for the captain and crew to answer in the coming months and even years. It looks like there were a lot of lapses here.
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Post by glasseye on Jan 15, 2012 15:20:45 GMT -8
The captain of the Concordia has been telling the media that the ship sailed 300m east of Isola del Giglio. Unfortunately for him, there was a very large rock almost exactly 300m east of Isola del Giglio. The rock isn't there anymore on account of being stuck in the port side of the Concordia's hull.
Multiple media sources are more-or-less accusing the crew of trying to buzz the island as part of what was allegedly something of a tradition for that particular ship.
The confirmed death toll is now five with 17 still missing.
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Jan 16, 2012 10:52:11 GMT -8
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Jan 22, 2012 20:27:00 GMT -8
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Post by dofd on Jan 25, 2012 0:18:11 GMT -8
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Post by gordon on Jan 25, 2012 8:46:33 GMT -8
Incidents like this would not happen with a local pilot aboard. would it make sense for the IMO to bring in the same requirement that B.C. uses any ship within s knotical mile of the Coast requires a pilot.
How large does a ship need to be in B.C. before a pilot is required?
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piglet
Chief Steward
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Post by piglet on Jan 25, 2012 9:15:25 GMT -8
Its interesting to know that the Captain bailed very earily on and wouldn't go back to the ship. The coast guard was telling him to go back and he was giving excuses for not going back. Also they are starting to question the training of the crew as they were "lost" as to what to do. For any of you that might be interested if you go to CBC's website and look up last sundays Cross country checkup its two hours of discussion of the accident with some interviews with survivors of the Oceania that went down off South Africa almost 20 years to the day. They were "buzzing' the island so that one of the crew could "wave" to his family cause they had kept him on the ship instead of letting him go on holidays that trip........expensive buzz all round.
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Jan 25, 2012 11:29:29 GMT -8
:)yes cdn. pilots are aboard our visiting vessels, but that didn't help when sergi yessen sliced thru our queen of victoria those many years back in active pass, I was working queen of sidney back then! another vetern that we never gave a proper send off! :'(mrdot.
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Jan 25, 2012 19:49:51 GMT -8
Except that may not apply to the Concordia as she was Italian flagged and in Italian waters... Similar to our ferries not needing a pilot.. Incidents like this would not happen with a local pilot aboard. would it make sense for the IMO to bring in the same requirement that B.C. uses any ship within s knotical mile of the Coast requires a pilot. How large does a ship need to be in B.C. before a pilot is required? Extract from the Pacific Pilotage regulations: Pacific Pilotage Regulations (C.R.C., c. 1270) SHIPS SUBJECT TO COMPULSORY PILOTAGE 9. (1) Every ship over 350 gross tons that is not a pleasure craft and every pleasure craft over 500 gross tons is subject to compulsory pilotage. (2) For the purposes of subsection (1), if a ship is part of an arrangement of ships, then the combined tonnage of all the ships in the arrangement of ships is taken into consideration in determining whether the ship is subject to compulsory pilotage. (3) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of (a) a government vessel as defined in section 2 of the Canada Shipping Act, 2001; (b) a ferry; or (c) a United States government ship under 10 000 gross tons. SOR/83-23, s. 1; SOR/85-256, s. 1(F); SOR/2003-224, s. 3; SOR/2009-329, s. 4. Also as a generic rule, all foriegn registered ships over 350 GT require a pilot for Coastal waters. Pilots are not required for Pacific waters nor the Strait of Juan De Fuca, except starting and ending at specific locations (Brotchie Ledge Victoria and Port Angeles, Washington). PIlots are required for specific set areas (roughly from the entrance to Haro Strait from the Strait of Juan de Fuca northwest to Pine Island and the Inside Passage to Rupert and the Pilot station there. Pilots are not required for the open ocean between Haida Gwaii and the Coast. So cruise ships disembark their pilot at Pine Island and sail there, or if the cruise ship continues to Fitz Simmons Sound and the Inside Passage, a new pilot will be brought aboard for the sail to Rupert's pilot station. Going further north, sailing into the Alaskan Inside Passage does require U.S. pilotage. The Costa Concordia was registered in Genoa Itay and it is quite possible she would have been exempt from having a pilot aboard as she would be considered a local ship, but that is dependent on Italian regulations that apply based on ship tonnage and registry.
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 25, 2012 20:02:25 GMT -8
If the Captain is found to be at fault for bringing his vessel two close to shore, it will be overly easy for us to leave the blame there. We have a romanticized view of the role of captain and his ship, and the authority that he has on board. When a ship has over 4,000 souls on board, the question becomes, is that too much responsibility for one person?
We have well defined shipping lanes for a reason. Passenger vessels file a float plan, and know where they should go. Why don’t we have a GPS system that tracks vessels, warns when they are out of the lane, and logs the warning for later when the ships Master is required to account for the deviation once they return to shore? In this case, the Captain would weigh weather sailing close to the island is worth the explanation later on. In the case of the Exxon Valdez, the Captain would have to determine whether the time saved is really worth the explanation once on shore. In both cases if the answer was yes, there would be a record that would follow those captains throughout their tenure with their institutions. If the unthinkable still happened, it would become an issue of corporate lenience, indeed corporate practice, rather than assuming the Captain should take the fall on his own, especially if the records show a pattern throughout the fleet.
Closer to home, the GPS warning that she was leaving the shipping lanes may have saved our leConte from running aground, or saved the Queen of the North.
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Jan 26, 2012 18:09:42 GMT -8
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Jan 26, 2012 18:15:02 GMT -8
A very good video of her AIS track:
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 27, 2012 14:34:47 GMT -8
When you note that two weeks later, a good portion of this ship is still high and dry and that the accident occurred almost literally a gangplank's length from the nearest shore, it's inexcusable that seventeen or so people died.
While Barnacle tells us that his casual interest in ferries has diminished since he became a WSF employee, I'm sure I've noticed in many of his posts a respect for the work he does, and a knowledge of and respect for the vessels he serves on. Likewise with other active or retired members of this forum; and something that would serve them and passengers on board their vessels very well in the event of an emergency. A cruise ship, on the other hand, has hundreds (if not over a thousand) of employees on board, but relatively few crew. The vast majority of those people are 'hotel staff', probably with minimal professional investment in the ship they're sailing on, and likewise minimal skills to offer in the event of a mishap. Reports from passengers on the Costa Concordia told of a minimum of organization after the grounding. With the time they had, it's hard to understand how all of the passengers could not have been shepherded to a dry deck, if not into the boats.
Of course all the blame is being put on the captain for his reckless piloting, with the company keelhauling him quite enthusiastically. But I hope people will look at the company and the cruise industry as well and ask if wages, working conditions, and safety training procedures are adequate to ensure public safety.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 27, 2012 16:52:32 GMT -8
When you note that two weeks later, a good portion of this ship is still high and dry and that the accident occurred almost literally a gangplank's length from the nearest shore, it's inexcusable that seventeen or so people died. While Barnacle tells us that his casual interest in ferries has diminished since he became a WSF employee, I'm sure I've noticed in many of his posts a respect for the work he does, and a knowledge of and respect for the vessels he serves on. Likewise with other active or retired members of this forum; and something that would serve them and passengers on board their vessels very well in the event of an emergency. A cruise ship, on the other hand, has hundreds (if not over a thousand) of employees on board, but relatively few crew. The vast majority of those people are 'hotel staff', probably with minimal professional investment in the ship they're sailing on, and likewise minimal skills to offer in the event of a mishap. Reports from passengers on the Costa Concordia told of a minimum of organization after the grounding. With the time they had, it's hard to understand how all of the passengers could not have been shepherded to a dry deck, if not into the boats. Of course all the blame is being put on the captain for his reckless piloting, with the company keelhauling him quite enthusiastically. But I hope people will look at the company and the cruise industry as well and ask if wages, working conditions, and safety training procedures are adequate to ensure public safety. Agree. There has been a continual problem of low wages in the cruise industry, but also keep in mind the cruise ship is not much more than a floating hotel. Thus the barboy and the maids who clean the rooms are not specifically trained in topics related to the ship (as are crew aboard a ferry for example). I would not place much blame on the company at this point unless it has been shown with evidence that the company was specifically partially negligent in this incident. The Captain of a ship has far more independence than a pilot of a 747, even though both are managed as passenger services. The way this is heading so far, it comes down to the decisions made by the Master of the vessel, not the company specifically. Despite confirming the gist of what I said in your first three lines, you missed my point. So, again: although the captain is certainly to blame for the specifics of the grounding, if lives were lost because of the inability of the vast 'hotel staff', and perhaps some of the crew, to play a substantial role in emergency procedures, the cruise line and the cruise industry in general should be held to account for sacrificing training and preparedness for profit.
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Jan 27, 2012 16:56:23 GMT -8
:)when you look at this megasized carnival hull block of literally many hundreds of veranda suites these modern cruise vessels are a ready made prop for a remake of the posidon adventure, one flaw in the electronic world and if the plug falls out, and everyone is running around like chickens with their heads chopped off, and the skipper falls into the last boat, mrdot.
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Mirrlees
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Post by Mirrlees on Jan 27, 2012 18:45:19 GMT -8
The cruise industry should be held accountable. There seems to be a one-up-man-ship between the lines who has the biggest, most grandiose ship. Did it not occur to the brass of these companies that there could be a issue with making sure three thousand or so passengers could be evacuated with having so few crew trained in MED's? I think the industry as a whole will need to make some serious changes in crew make-up. They should be able to when you think of all the money they get off of the people that take these cruises By the way, I heard this morning that Carnival is offering $15.000 US to each passenger for their lost belongings. Shut-up money so they won't sue I'd imagine.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 30, 2012 22:51:32 GMT -8
The party that offered up Herman Cain as a possibly legitimate occupant of the most powerful political office in the democratic world has now compared President Obama to a coward who is being charged with manslaughter for his piloting of the Costa Concordia.Republican National Chairman Reince Preibus has said that Barack Obama is like Captain Schettino, because he is allegedly campaigning when he should be governing. While Santorum, Gingrich, and Romney engage in winning American voters' hearts with their ever more ferocious campaigns of character assassination against each other and attempting to prove that they're more rabidly conservative than the other guy, the RNC has some venom left for Obama, and seems to feel that comparing the President to a morally derelict lifeboat jumper responsible for the deaths of seventeen people is fair comment. Finding the bottom in politics these days grows ever more difficult. www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57367987-503544/rnc-chair-priebus-compares-obama-to-captain-schettino/
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Jan 30, 2012 23:07:06 GMT -8
:)relax, the very slymey rite wing republicans just want all blacks to stay at the back of the bus, and any comparison to reckless ship skippers only reveals the depth of depravity in political world! :' (mrdot.
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Post by alaskanmohican on Jan 31, 2012 16:20:59 GMT -8
:)relax, the very slymey rite wing republicans just want all blacks to stay at the back of the bus, and any comparison to reckless ship skippers only reveals the depth of depravity in political world! :' (mrdot. Please , that whole Republicans are racist and Democrats are Nazis is excessive rhetoric. People can discuss politics without extreme statements like this me thinks.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 31, 2012 17:26:18 GMT -8
Boy, anytime there's an opening for a political angle, Paul's on it like white on rice... I don't believe mrdot was refering to all Republicans, but rather the extremists who seem to be in the ascendancy in the party these days- such as Newt Gingrich or Arizona's Jan Brewer- for whom the race card is either a blatant or a coded part of their platform. In any event, it wasn't my intent to open up a debate on the merits of Al Gore or Bill Clinton or the rather unedifying possibility that Mr Keenlyside has some sort of mummified sunshine breakfast (maybe on his mantle next to all his political awards) that he's willing to bet on an election. It was to point out an appallingly inappropriate Costa Concordia reference in the American primaries, and maybe to show that ferry forums aren't the only place where people make unwelcome digressions.
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Jan 31, 2012 17:56:33 GMT -8
:)this is a shipwatchers forum, and I am sorry I muddied the waters with this, what I thought was a lite- harted comment, and that any president can be compared to a reckless navigator, is politically incorrect! a lite harted joke: how can you tell an italian cruise liner, only one lifeboat,and for crew members! ;Dmrdot.
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Feb 3, 2012 12:24:15 GMT -8
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Feb 4, 2012 14:49:10 GMT -8
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