Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jan 22, 2010 10:52:25 GMT -8
You can fool some of the people... ------------------------------------------------------- Entering troubled watersJanuary 22,2010 Ian Jacques/Editor You have to give them an A for effort, but after that, Coastal Link Ferries (CLF) gets a failing grade for communication and consultation. CLF announced plans recently to try to commence commuter ferry service from the Sunshine Coast or, more specifically, from Hopkins Landing to Vancouver. You may remember this is the same company that tried to start a service through Gibsons two years ago, but captain Ihab Shaker failed to negotiate a deal with the Gibsons Landing Harbour Authority. Since that failed try, Shaker has been running a service from Bowen Island to Vancouver. He claims the service here will be reliable, efficient and a viable alternative to B.C. Ferries. He plans to launch the service from the dock at Hopkins on March 1. But the one aspect that doomed his service plans here last time is the same aspect that will probably doom him again this time — a lack of consultation with politicians and, more importantly, the public. In an e-mail sent out on Jan. 12, Shaker claimed, “working with the Sunshine Coast Regional District, we were able to secure docking at Hopkins Landing.” That statement took directors at the board table aback, saying they had little or no consultation with Shaker. Staff have had talks with the captain, but how can you claim you have a deal in place when no such deal exists? A further point was brought up by West Howe Sound director Lee Turnbull, who at a recent SCRD meeting, stated many residents had concerns with the idea of a ferry using their area dock. Once again, there was no consultation with the residents, just big claims from Shaker saying there would be no problems — no problems with parking, with traffic or congestion. The ferry will just come in, pick up and drop off passengers and be on its way. Why are we having a hard time believing that? We’re also wondering who is going to drive to the B.C. Ferries terminal in Langdale, park and pay for their vehicle, then get on a bus or walk to the Hopkins Landing dock to take the Coastal Link vessel to Vancouver. By the time that ferry gets to Bowen then heads to Vancouver, the B.C. Ferries vessel will already be docking in Horseshoe Bay. Shaker’s plans just don’t hold water. He claims to be keen on talking to residents and politicians about his plans. If that were the case, why hasn’t that already been done? Shaker is putting the cart before the horse again and it spells only one thing — more troubled waters for his operation here on the Coast. www.coastreporter.net/article/20100122/SECHELT0302/301229974/-1/sechelt/entering-troubled-waters
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 22, 2010 13:15:43 GMT -8
Hmmm the song, "The Smoke Gets in My Eyes," comes to mind. I am shocked that there appears to be a back story here and a disagreement about, and different version of, events. I guess the song popped in my mind due to the smoke and mirrors that seems to go on all the time. Just when you think you are almost at the goal line you find out the goal post has been moved . Ok no more hinting or veiled comments, just because it is a Friday and I am in a good mood to tease anymore .
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 23, 2010 7:04:01 GMT -8
The item that Neil posted yesterday was the Coast Reporter's editorial. Here's the related news story: from here: www.coastreporter.net/article/20100122/SECHELT0101/301229982/-1/SECHELT01/hopkins-commuter-route-plans-irk-scrd================ Regarding the quote attributed to Capt. Shaker: - The Bowen service has been running since say Oct.2008. It's mostly been a weekday service, and there have been lots of breaks for holiday seasons. - Assuming say 60 weeks of service, and assuming the low end of Shaker's boast being 10,000 passengers, then that would be an average of 33.33 passengers every single weekday of operation. According to other reports and firsthand information, that 33.33 average is very unlikely, making Capt. Skaker appear to be either unaware of the details of his own operations or perhaps just prone to gross exaggeration. ------ Next quote: - That appears to be very naive of Capt. Shaker. Assuming that BCF will actually rent him parking space, Capt. Shaker would likely not like the price (based on what he showed in 2008 at Gibsons and on what he's shown in West Vancouver expecting things for free). I predict that he will never rent parking-space from BCF. ---------------- The amateur gong show continues.... Thankfully, we comedy lovers get to be entertained and watch a new chapter of impossible-promises and inaction.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jan 27, 2010 23:40:07 GMT -8
Well, with CLF apparently ready to take on the world- or at least, expand to Gibsons (Hopkins Landing, to be precise) and provide expanded service from West Vancouver during the Olympics, I thought I'd go downtown and see how their Ambleside expansion was faring.
Not all that well, apparently.
They offer a 4:00 sailing to Ambleside from the Bute St. dock, but at about a quarter to, Captain Shaker emerged from the coffee shop nearby, did a rather forlorn survey of the business at hand and went back inside. No customers, no sailing. I guess he wasn't expecting to disappoint anyone waiting for the 4:15 back from Ambleside.
Nearing 4:30, and the second scheduled round trip of the afternoon, the Coastal Runner fired up her cold engine and began belching a tremendous fog of noxious blue smoke, which blanketed the seaplane area, and wafted mightily over the adjoining park. With the paucity of funds CLF has for promotion, I would imagine this copious effluvium is the most obvious evidence of the "greenest commuter alternative's" presence in the harbour.
The boat left with two passengers, and returned with one from Ambleside.
The final scheduled departure was at 5, stopping at Ambleside on the way to Snug Cove. The stop in West Van is very quick, pretty much just a kiss of the deserted dock, where one person got off. There were 14 or 15 carrying on to Bowen, which is actually less than when I rode last summer, although a passenger told me they are usually doing about 20.
So, a total of five scheduled departures involving Ambleside, and a total of four passengers.
The Coastal Runner hasn't gotten any more luxurious since last summer. Still loud, and cold enough that I could see my breath the whole way. Blue duct tape covering sags at the juncture of ceiling panels. They still advertise a cafeteria and newspapers, when they've never had any sort of food, and they don't even supply those junky free tabloids that they gave away last summer.
But they're still around. Wonders never cease. Go forth, ye intrepid mariners, and conquer Hopkins Landing.
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Post by sven on Jan 28, 2010 6:39:20 GMT -8
funny thing you could see your breath. I have been on the runner daily for the last three months and ever since they got a big bus heater, people fall asleep in the warm and comfortable interior. Maybe you just full of hot air?
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Post by whalebreath on Jan 28, 2010 7:45:19 GMT -8
funny thing you could see your breath. I have been on the runner daily for the last three months and ever since they got a big bus heater, people fall asleep in the warm and comfortable interior. Maybe you just full of hot air? Most likely the heater was shut off to save money.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 28, 2010 8:45:05 GMT -8
The Coastal Runner hasn't gotten any more luxurious since last summer. Still loud, and cold enough that I could see my breath the whole way. Blue duct tape covering sags at the juncture of ceiling panels. They still advertise a cafeteria and newspapers, when they've never had any sort of food, and they don't even supply those junky free tabloids that they gave away last summer. You didn't go to the StraitWest Lounge obviously or you would have enjoyed the Gibson's Best Coffee, Bowen Buns (Cinnamon) and Coastal Cookies. Or maybe like airlines they only serve during meal times and so the Lounge closed. Doesn't it say you can "read" a paper, not that we have papers ;D. And no mention of the InCruise magazine Coastal Tattler that is offered in the lounge as well. I guess the lounge is only offered to frequent Cruisers .
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jan 28, 2010 11:35:30 GMT -8
Maybe you just full of hot air? Maybe you just on wrong boat? Sven, you've been a member for almost a year now, and you've given us three lines. If you have a regular passenger's perspective on CLF, I'm sure your input would be welcome. You didn't go to the StraitWest Lounge obviously or you would have enjoyed the Gibson's Best Coffee, Bowen Buns (Cinnamon) and Coastal Cookies. Or maybe like airlines they only serve during meal times and so the Lounge closed. Doesn't it say you can "read" a paper, not that we have papers ;D. And no mention of the InCruise magazine Coastal Tattler that is offered in the lounge as well. I guess the lounge is only offered to frequent Cruisers . Maybe since the West Van project isn't going well, they've cut back on the wine and cheese parties, but you would think they could have kept the complimentary blankets and CLF mittens to ward off the chill. In contrast to the 14 or so passengers getting off the Coastal Runner, the 5:30 Queen of Capilano sailing from Horseshoe Bay carried its usual 85 car load, and 75-100 foot passengers. Bowenites have not yet been wooed away from big bad BC Ferries.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 28, 2010 15:11:21 GMT -8
Neil, thanks for taking the time to again travel on the "Silver Sausage" and report on the trip. Your stipend cheque is in the mail.
Was your original plan to take the 4:00pm trip that Ihab "canceled with a shrug"? Or were you planning on hanging around Bute St. dock for over an hour to see multiple sailings?
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 29, 2010 7:12:12 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 29, 2010 7:25:17 GMT -8
Wow, that's another item to keep in our online scrapbook of CLF memories.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jan 29, 2010 10:22:03 GMT -8
Was your original plan to take the 4:00pm trip that Ihab "canceled with a shrug"? Or were you planning on hanging around Bute St. dock for over an hour to see multiple sailings? I had planned to watch the first departure, and then do a round trip to Ambleside and back, and then over to Bowen. Their 4:30 departure left five minutes early, so I was left drinking in the diesel bouquet partway down the dock. In fairness, once the Coastal Runner got warmed up, it's emissions were not so noticeable. With this parking thing, let's assume that business really takes off for CLF from Hopkins Landing. If they do 50 passengers a day, that could be 50 parking spots that they were expecting BC Ferries to provide them at Langdale, which would represent more than 20% of the total available for BC Ferries customers. Without even asking. Looking at the transit schedule for the Gibsons area, I note that there is no bus that would connect with CLF's 6:30 departure. So since people can't park at Langdale or Hopkins Landing, and they can't take the bus, how pray tell is anyone going to get to this boat? And then there is this shuttle that Shaker mentioned. Was he actually going to pay someone to drive a bus or large van once in the morning and once in the afternoon to connect with his departure? This, from a guy who can't even pay for heat to keep his customers warm on board? Now there's been an ambitious schedule announced for service from Ambleside during the Olympics. I wonder if any money is being spent on promoting it, or if he's depending on the allure of the website to bring the customers in.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 29, 2010 11:39:55 GMT -8
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Post by dofd on Jan 29, 2010 23:10:08 GMT -8
Not that I am really part of this; but I am in Yaletown and have still not heard about this link.
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Post by sven on Jan 30, 2010 6:16:26 GMT -8
This type of situation seems to follow Mr Shaker wherever he sets up shop. It is important to divide CLF into two aspects. One is the current owner, the other is the boat. I will happily discuss the boat as I was Master for almost 140 voyages. She is a very strong ship with good handling and fair speed. With the new prop she spins at 1600rpm and gives 16-17 knots of boat speed. Passenger comfort has improved with the addition of an 88000 btu bus heater. I have had her out in 35 knots SW with a 7-10 ft seas. She proved herself and bucked her way through the slop! Mind you we had to slow her down and steer with attention. Docking a long narrow( 12beam, 65 loa) ship is a challenge although you quickly find her routine. There use of the hydraulic bow thruster sure helps. She may be ugly but boy does she perform! Feel free to ask your questions and I will do my best to answer. Ihab is out of bounds as he can speak for himself.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 30, 2010 9:56:44 GMT -8
This type of situation seems to follow Mr Shaker wherever he sets up shop. It is important to divide CLF into two aspects. One is the current owner, the other is the boat. I will happily discuss the boat as I was Master for almost 140 voyages. She is a very strong ship with good handling and fair speed. With the new prop she spins at 1600rpm and gives 16-17 knots of boat speed. Passenger comfort has improved with the addition of an 88000 btu bus heater. I have had her out in 35 knots SW with a 7-10 ft seas. She proved herself and bucked her way through the slop! Mind you we had to slow her down and steer with attention. Docking a long narrow( 12beam, 65 loa) ship is a challenge although you quickly find her routine. There use of the hydraulic bow thruster sure helps. She may be ugly but boy does she perform! Feel free to ask your questions and I will do my best to answer. Ihab is out of bounds as he can speak for himself. Sven a couple questions from your post. You mention the new prop. What has that done for the boat? Increased efficiency, speed or both? 35knots and 7-10 foot seas sounds like quite the ride. Passengers must have been feeling a little queasy with those conditions. Or was the ride for them still comfortable?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jan 30, 2010 12:20:18 GMT -8
Passenger comfort has improved with the addition of an 88000 btu bus heater. I have had her out in 35 knots SW with a 7-10 ft seas. She proved herself and bucked her way through the slop! Mind you we had to slow her down and steer with attention. I rode once last summer when the seas were perhaps 3 ft with more moderate winds, and the boat was slamming mightily. I can't imagine it operating in conditions such as you describe, at least not with passengers onboard. The four occasions I've been on board, Shaker was at the helm each time. Apparently, this past Wednesday they chose not to have any heat on, if the unit is actually operating. I'm completely mystified as to how CLF can pay Shaker, a second captain and a crewman, as well as fuel and other business costs, out of the revenue they're generating.
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Post by sven on Jan 30, 2010 14:13:28 GMT -8
This type of situation seems to follow Mr Shaker wherever he sets up shop. It is important to divide CLF into two aspects. One is the current owner, the other is the boat. I will happily discuss the boat as I was Master for almost 140 voyages. She is a very strong ship with good handling and fair speed. With the new prop she spins at 1600rpm and gives 16-17 knots of boat speed. Passenger comfort has improved with the addition of an 88000 btu bus heater. I have had her out in 35 knots SW with a 7-10 ft seas. She proved herself and bucked her way through the slop! Mind you we had to slow her down and steer with attention. Docking a long narrow( 12beam, 65 loa) ship is a challenge although you quickly find her routine. There use of the hydraulic bow thruster sure helps. She may be ugly but boy does she perform! Feel free to ask your questions and I will do my best to answer. Ihab is out of bounds as he can speak for himself. Sven a couple questions from your post. You mention the new prop. What has that done for the boat? Increased efficiency, speed or both? 35knots and 7-10 foot seas sounds like quite the ride. Passengers must have been feeling a little queasy with those conditions. Or was the ride for them still comfortable? The new prop replaced a badly damaged old prop. fuel consumption/ efficiency have improved. As far as the rough ride had by some, I was not there , can't comment. When I am at the helm, I always cut back speed to maintain client comfort. I also ask passengers to sit aft for comfort and forward for thrills! I no longer work for Shaker. Stay tuned!
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Post by landlocked on Jan 31, 2010 9:34:52 GMT -8
The continuing saga is quite remarkable to watch!
What got Ihab in trouble in the first place on the Sunshine Coast is the fact that he assumed no negotiations would be required to get a spot to dock in Gibsons. He didn't need to sign off on a deal prior to building a half million dollar boat. Why would he. He could just announce his new service and everything else would simply fall into place. Didn't work then and doesn't seem to be working now. What a surprise.
One thing I haven't been able to clear up in my own mind is 'when did Ihab ever say CLF intended to use the Langdale parking lot?' I don't recall ever seeing it. From what I can see, most are mistaken. He didn't say it. What I believe he assumed was that his clients could use it, after all, it's a parking lot, it has space available and why wouldn't BCFS want the additional revenue? More than just a little naive Ihab. Yes, you are right...it is a public facility and they are members of the public, why can't they park there? I would be willing to bet security would ensure in pretty short order that any clients of Ihab's would be informed as to how unwelcome they were at that parking lot and further action would be taken if they were to continue the practice.
Sorry Ihab, but your clients can't use the big white and blue boats parking lot....
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 31, 2010 10:02:47 GMT -8
One thing I haven't been able to clear up in my own mind is 'when did Ihab ever say CLF intended to use the Langdale parking lot?' Here's a brief mention in the promo email that Coastal Link sent out (see reply #226 in this thread). And here's an item from a Coast-Reporter news story (see reply #232 in this thread): And another item from reply #232.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 31, 2010 10:23:49 GMT -8
I am a bit confused about forum member Sven, about his involvement with Coastal Link. I'll show a few quotes below, to try to explain what has me confused: ============== This first post from January 28th indicates that Sven is on the ship daily. funny thing you could see your breath. I have been on the runner daily for the last three months and ever since they got a big bus heater, people fall asleep in the warm and comfortable interior. Maybe you just full of hot air? This post from January 30th explains that Sven has driven the ship in rough seas. I have had her out in 35 knots SW with a 7-10 ft seas. She proved herself and bucked her way through the slop! Mind you we had to slow her down and steer with attention. But then this post from later on January 30th then indicates that Sven wasn't there for rough rides. As far as the rough ride had by some, I was not there , can't comment. When I am at the helm, I always cut back speed to maintain client comfort. I also ask passengers to sit aft for comfort and forward for thrills! So the "I was not there" comment is what is confusing me. Sven has just said that he was there daily for the past 3 months and then he says that he has had the ship in rough weather.....and then he contradicts himself by saying "I was not there". The ending line "I no longer work for Shaker" is interesting too. I suppose that this termination happened very recently, obviously sometime after January 28th. Something's not adding-up: the tone of the "maybe you full of hot air" comment makes me wonder what his motivation is. Also, the back-and-forth about the bus heater is confusing. Can Sven explain why Neil was on a cold ship on January 27th? Sven says that there is a heater (and glows about it, just like a ship owner would), but yet Neil says it was cold. Something's not adding up...
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Post by sven on Jan 31, 2010 10:56:52 GMT -8
I can't comment on a ride that I was not present for. I was not there for every trip. Some trips were Captained by Ihab, some by me, and other staff. Neil said he was cold and I have no reason to doubt him. When I was running the ship I would warm her up for 20 minutes before departure. I figured the $5 in fuel for the warmth was worth it. Obviously other skippers disagree. My Hot air comment was tongue in cheek, the average trip is warm, not to say the odd one is cold. Nothing else going on here. I do find the third party questions a little strange but I am adapting. No conspiracy, sorry!
Having read all the comments on the two threads as well as several other forums, I have one question; Why has initial support for CLF turned into a general schadenfreude fest? Has anyone contacted CLF and offered advice or feedback. Do members here want to see this type of enterprise succeed?
What size, type , design of craft would you suggest?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 31, 2010 11:19:24 GMT -8
Nothing else going on here. I do find the third party questions a little strange but I am adapting. No conspiracy, sorry! Thanks for clarifying. I've learned to "expect the unexpected" with things on this forum, that's all. People are not always who they claim to be (that's a fact of these types of internet forums) ============ Why has initial support for CLF turned into a general schadenfreude fest? As for the tone on this here forum, the initial reaction was ridicule and disbelief, not support. Right from the start, many people on this forum assumed that CLF was a hoax or prank, not a real venture. ============== Has anyone contacted CLF and offered advice or feedback. Members on this forum had lots and lots of direct contact (via this forum) with CLF's marketing man Peter Green. Lots of people contacted CLF via Peter Green's representation and defense of the company on this here forum. Peter Green was more than willing to speak for the company at every opportunity and to be the company-apologist for every single question or criticism that people wrote about, on this here forum. =============== As for me, I'm not a resident who would be affected by CLF's service. My interests in this operation are two-fold: 1) I am amused by observing how this business represents itself in the media and on its webpage. Amused as in "I find it funny". 2) This CLF thread has caused me (as a forum moderator) various degrees of fun, frustration, extra-work, mistrust, cynicism and surprises. So for me, maybe CLF has become some sort of a cult-classic story that's not so much about a ship that is moving people, as it is about an operation that is unbelievably bizarre.
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 31, 2010 12:54:05 GMT -8
I sort of agree with flug here. I can't really take CLF very seriously, especially with the way they present themselves publicly. Usually I don't even bother reading this thread due to pure lack of my own interest, as half the posts here just criticize their unprofessionalism (I hope that's a word :-\ ) and laugh at CLF's business ventures. I just happened to read this here thread today because I was bored.
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Post by landlocked on Jan 31, 2010 13:20:30 GMT -8
With respect to the Langdale parking lot, maybe I'm splitting hairs here...
At no point did I believe Ihab to say that the 'company' would be making any arrangements to use the Langdale parking lot. When the Coast Reporter suggested that CLF patrons would have to park at Langdale, that was them suggesting the obvious. "CLF passengers would have to park at Langdale and bus it to Hopkins"
What I find interesting is that Mike Corrigan would write to the company to inform them that CLF could not use the Langdale lot. CLF only assumed that their passengers could park there.
It may have been better to say that the only parking that appears to be readily available is at the Langdale ferry terminal. If patrons wish to drive to the Coastal Runner, they would have to make arrangements with BCFS for parking at the Langdale terminal.
The final question is...if a potential passenger were to approach BCFS asking for permission or to make arrangements to park while they take a competing service to Vancouver, we all know what the answer would be.
That is what I find so naive about Ihab on this project. BC Ferries would rather have the lot empty than help a competitor. Think about it Ihab! But then again, that appears to be the way he operates, always considering that he has a right to utilize public facilities at little or no obligation.
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