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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2010 13:52:02 GMT -8
I enjoy reading this thread from time to time to see just how Ihab is doing. After running a service from Gibsons for almost 3 years I am amazed that Ihab is facing the troubles he is facing. Where I received nothing but help from Gibsons and the SCRD, and even some cooperation with BCF (Some not complete)
A few items are odd. Particularly Sven. He claims to have run the Coastal Runner in 35 knot winds and 7 foot seas. I thought the Coastal Runner had some restrictions on operations which were far less than that, like 16 knots and 1.5 meter seas. So if one is to believe Sven is a licenced Captain and he did run the coastal Runner in weather he claims, it seems he would not want to admit it, on the Internet for TC to see. It would seem to me TC would want to talk to him about his lack of following the restrictions.
Another item that is odd is what has happened to the poor soul who has the mortgage on the boat? I seem to recall something along the lines it was due last August. Was it paid off? with what profit?
They say location is everything, and in this case I think it is very true. I ran from Gibsons Government wharf to the harbour master float, right beside the seabus terminal. I ran full from about month 5 to the month I shut down. 38 - 40 pax every single trip. the Georgia Master was no luxury liner, but it might be warmer than the Coastal Runner. the big difference seems to me to be the location for both start and finish of the trip. Hopkins is not where people want this service, they want it from Gibsons or Langdale. same in Vancouver, seabus/SkyTrain is where people want to be not Bute street.
15 months into this venture and Ihab has faced more adversity and problems than I ever would have wanted to face. It is a tough business and it looks like it is getting tougher, glad I am no longer in that business.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 31, 2010 15:26:17 GMT -8
15 months into this venture and Ihab has faced more adversity and problems than I ever would have wanted to face. It is a tough business and it looks like it is getting tougher, glad I am no longer in that business. It does seem like a tough business, but in following this story on -and sometimes, off- the forum, it seems to me that so much of his adversity is of his own making. Right from the beginning, in dealing with the GLHA. With respect to the Langdale parking lot, maybe I'm splitting hairs here... At no point did I believe Ihab to say that the 'company' would be making any arrangements to use the Langdale parking lot. When the Coast Reporter suggested that CLF patrons would have to park at Langdale, that was them suggesting the obvious. "CLF passengers would have to park at Langdale and bus it to Hopkins" What I find interesting is that Mike Corrigan would write to the company to inform them that CLF could not use the Langdale lot. CLF only assumed that their passengers could park there. The reference to Langdale parking did not come from the reporter; it was in Shaker's memo to the people on his mailing list announcing the venture. I think BC Ferries realized they had to take the initiative and write CLF when they realized that this guy was making assumptions that his customers could park there. Having read all the comments on the two threads as well as several other forums, I have one question; Why has initial support for CLF turned into a general schadenfreude fest? Has anyone contacted CLF and offered advice or feedback. Do members here want to see this type of enterprise succeed? Flugel Horn is correct; initial thoughts on this venture were skeptical, especially with regard to their website. We've had a lot of background on this story, again, not all of it on the forum, and we've had some information regarding Shaker's operations back east, some of which is available from Transport Canada records. We've followed what information we could gain on his contacts with port authorities, the SCRD, and other people connected or concerned with CLF. I believe 'captgm' has posted in the past under another name and given us a bit of insight into running this kind of business. Others have posted, with varying degrees of insight, pro and con. I've ridden the boat a few times. Some of us laymen have followed the coastal shipping scene long enough to make some comparisons between CLF and other efforts that went before. Those stories tend to make one somewhat cynical about the viability of private ferries on this coast, and maybe there's a bit of healthy skepticism about a shoestring operation who's principals seem to have, at times, a slightly sketchy notion of how to deal professionally with various aspects of running their business. Do we want them to succeed? In the end, that's immaterial, since no one on this forum has any say or any hand in that. Personally, I'd like to see it work, although I don't see any indication of that happening, and in the end, a public option is best, as has been proved time and time again since 1960. Usually I don't even bother reading this thread due to pure lack of my own interest, as half the posts here just criticize their unprofessionalism (I hope that's a word :-\ ) and laugh at CLF's business ventures. I just happened to read this here thread today because I was bored. Then don't post. Nobody needs to know about you being bored and disinterested.
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Post by sven on Jan 31, 2010 15:58:08 GMT -8
Thanks for all the response. I am aware the the operating restrictions on any vessel I am Master of. My 35 knt. wind experience was without pax. Ideas about what kind of operation would work???
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 31, 2010 16:57:40 GMT -8
Thanks for all the response. I am aware the the operating restrictions on any vessel I am Master of. My 35 knt. wind experience was without pax. Ideas about what kind of operation would work??? Oh, I get it now. You're a former CLF employee, and you're thinking of starting your own Bowen Island passenger ferry to compete with CLF and Granville Island, and you're looking for ideas. Good plan.
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Post by sven on Jan 31, 2010 19:09:47 GMT -8
No Bowen run, as it is already over served by CLF and English Bay Launch. Btw, GIWT shut down last fall and EBL has taken on the granville island-bowen run. I am interested in promoting water travel in the Salish Sea. Where would you go? What type of ship?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 31, 2010 19:30:42 GMT -8
No Bowen run, as it is already over served by CLF and English Bay Launch. Btw, GIWT shut down last fall and EBL has taken on the granville island-bowen run. I am interested in promoting water travel in the Salish Sea. Where would you go? What type of ship? We're aware of the switch in operators from Granville Island. I'm not really sure what you're looking for, but in any event, this thread is concerned mainly with CLF, so hypothethical ferry operations might best be discussed somewhere else. I'm curious as to when you were master aboard the Coastal Runner. If it was recently, would you agree that they are carrying about 20 passengers each way, as a regular told me? And are you at liberty to say whether your parting from the company was an amicable one?
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 1, 2010 7:33:09 GMT -8
As a businessman and someone in the marketing/advertising industry, this operation has been like a case study in dealing with the public. If marketing expertise isn't taken seriously, and/or investments made in a proper development of your brand, and a business just forges ahead making error after error, the public developes an image that no amount of unrealistic comments will change.
Mistakes in business can be an opportunity to be capitalized on and learned from, to make your business much stronger. But when those mistakes keep being made over and over, with no changes happening or apparent learning happening, you get a stream of commentary like you are seeing on this site that is more negative.
My interest and opinions are coloured by the taxi/passenger ferry services I have seen operate in other cities. For example, albeit for a much larger communter public, the ferries in NYC that jet back and forth across the Hudson. Also my belief that you have to give the public viable alternatives to get traffic off the road. And also coloured from the perspective of staying on the north shore frequently and dealing with Vancouvers traffic issues.
As downtown gets more and more congested, and parking fees climb higher and higher, good alternatives need to be in place. The Seabus is great but I think there is probably room for more direct serivices. When the Lion's Gate wasn't twinned a natural cap was put on volume of cars that can be carried. So I am a supporter of alternative services, and believe some incentive is needed from government in the areas of waved fees and/or taxes, to help them establish. However, the service must be well run, have a strong marketing component, and a good chance of success before any public help should be considered.
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Post by sven on Feb 1, 2010 13:22:10 GMT -8
I agree with your statement. Thanks for the insight.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2010 12:34:58 GMT -8
If you look at the Langdale Dock Closure thread it is quoted from an article in the local newspaper.
"Brian Sagman, SCRD manager of transportation and facilities, has been negotiating with B.C. Ferries trying to find options that will allow island residents to continue accessing the facility but it seems the best option is building a new float at a new location somewhere close to the current one.
Before the issue can be fully resolved, the SCRD still needs to do a public consultation process, design a new dock, conduct an environmental review, get approval from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, get SCRD board approval and then finally ink a deal with B.C. Ferries and build the new dock.
“We’ve worked out a general timeline that we think we could complete the construction by the end of the year, if we keep moving forward,” Sagman said."
So it would look like by December 2010 there will be a new dock at Langdale which is no longer going to be controlled by BCF. So if CLF would want to provide Sunshine Coast service from a good location like Langdale, there is a potential future option. Only time will tell if Ihab has improved his ability to negotiate with a government entity and secure landing rights.
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Post by nukeguy on Feb 3, 2010 13:33:43 GMT -8
Hello everyone, I'm very proud and happy of all of you that you have quickly picked on Captain Ihab Shaker, I though he could last more than that but I guess his age and desperation is getting on him. I will tell you all about his past and kinda shed some light on of all your questions/concerns. He is a well known of creating this ferry boat companies pretending it doing great and somehow manage to convince people to invest in his business and somehow the funds are gone and blamed on bad business then he was able to open his own ferry company in Egypt after coming out of a bankrupcy? one would think he is broke! This is his fourth try, twice in Egypt and one in Toronto where he left behind alot of people who trusted him with their life time savings The reason I say that is because I was there when it happened and I'm very glad that I did not invest. Only time will tell....mark my words.
PS The spelling thing comes with all egyptians!!!!
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Moderator comment: - thank you to Nukeguy for editing his post.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 4, 2010 22:41:18 GMT -8
Hello everyone, I'm very proud and happy of all of you that you have quickly picked on Captain Ihab Shaker, I though he could last more than that but I guess his age and desperation is getting on him. I will tell you all about his past and kinda shed some light on of all your questions/concerns. He is a well known of creating this ferry boat companies pretending it doing great and somehow manage to convince people to invest in his business and somehow the funds are gone and blamed on bad business then he was able to open his own ferry company in Egypt after coming out of a bankrupcy? one would think he is broke! This is his fourth try, twice in Egypt and one in Toronto where he left behind alot of people who trusted him with their life time savings The reason I say that is because I was there when it happened and I'm very glad that I did not invest. Only time will tell....mark my words. PS The spelling thing comes with all egyptians!!!! So... that's it? Just a quick drive by shooting, lob a few unarmed grenades through the window, in English so fractured it makes Ihab Shaker look bard-like in comparison, despite the jibe about his Egyptian spelling? Not exactly a contender for the Forum investigative journalism award, as of yet. Maybe you're just getting started, or, maybe you just raided the Billable Hours vault and you've said your piece. Time will tell, as you portentously suggest. If marketing expertise isn't taken seriously, and/or investments made in a proper development of your brand, and a business just forges ahead making error after error, the public developes an image that no amount of unrealistic comments will change. Mistakes in business can be an opportunity to be capitalized on and learned from, to make your business much stronger. But when those mistakes keep being made over and over, with no changes happening or apparent learning happening, you get a stream of commentary like you are seeing on this site that is more negative. My interest and opinions are coloured by the taxi/passenger ferry services I have seen operate in other cities. For example, albeit for a much larger communter public, the ferries in NYC that jet back and forth across the Hudson. Also my belief that you have to give the public viable alternatives to get traffic off the road. And also coloured from the perspective of staying on the north shore frequently and dealing with Vancouvers traffic issues. Sometimes the things that cause people to change their commuting patterns are somewhat intangible. For instance, studies have shown that rapid rail options are more popular than rapid buses, even when the bus option is approximately as efficient. People seem to take rail more seriously; it seems to have more of a cachet of respectability. In the last year, the daily increase in CLF's passenger total can be counted by the fingers on two hands. I wonder if some of that can be explained by people just not being impressed by the bargain basement look of the Coastal Runner, and the onboard noise and (occasional?) cold. The operation is priced reasonably; $20 return for frequent customers, as opposed to $11-12 on BC Ferries and bus, at discounted rates. A CLF passenger leaving Bowen in the morning will be at the Bute St. dock in 40 minutes, while the BC Ferries/ bus option will take about 80 minutes. CLF's downtown terminus is not particularly convenient, being an often rainy, lengthy walk from most office destinations. There have to be at least 200 foot passengers leaving Snug Cove every morning for Vancouver, and a fair number of those are taking transit. Only a handful have been won over to CLF. Is it the price, the schedule, the terminus, the distrust of new operators, or the boat itself? Or maybe the muffins on the ' Capilano? Who knows. In any event, Shaker's operation keeps operating, like 'The Little Dysfunctional Ferry Company That Could'. There's a fable in there somewhere, if not a business primer.
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 5, 2010 7:04:55 GMT -8
Does the 'Runner usually moor at Lonsdale?? Yesterday when I was in North Vancouver, she was docked about 30 metres west of the Burrard Drydock. I was there for about an hour, and she didn't move. I thought she was kept at Bowen during the day...?
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Post by sven on Feb 5, 2010 22:22:55 GMT -8
Usually she lays at the Bute St. dock during the day and departs for bowen @ 1700hrs. Fuel is sometimes purchased from that area when the Chevron in Coal Harbour is down for renovations etc.
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 6, 2010 11:35:28 GMT -8
Last Summer She was kept at the Bowen Dock. Why did they change moorages?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 6, 2010 15:07:36 GMT -8
Last Summer She was kept at the Bowen Dock. Why did they change moorages? The Coastal Runner did not stay at Snug Cove during the day. It leaves Bowen in the morning and returns in the late afternoon.
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 7, 2010 4:12:02 GMT -8
Last Summer She was kept at the Bowen Dock. Why did they change moorages? The Coastal Runner did not stay at Snug Cove during the day. It leaves Bowen in the morning and returns in the late afternoon. This photo was taken on November 24, 2009 at 10:26am, according to the image's properties. There's the 'runner, right there. When I left on the 5pm sailing, the 'runner was still there, in the same moorage... The only conclusion I can come to is that Mr. CLF guy was spending the day at Bowen Attachments:
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 7, 2010 9:31:48 GMT -8
November 29th was a Sunday........The Coastal Runner doesn't run on weekends.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 7, 2010 12:59:34 GMT -8
November 29th was a Sunday........The Coastal Runner doesn't run on weekends. 24th was the picture date, and so that was a Tuesday. Just for clarity's sake.
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 7, 2010 14:36:43 GMT -8
Does anybody know why the 'Runner was at Bowen that day then?
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 7, 2010 21:37:11 GMT -8
November 29th was a Sunday........The Coastal Runner doesn't run on weekends. 24th was the picture date, and so that was a Tuesday. Just for clarity's sake. Hah! My bad....I must have been half asleep at the time. Now to make this post relevant.... I'm surprised we haven't heard about CLF wanting to use the Langdale float that the Stormaway III uses for its service. I guess that since they've already assumed that they could direct their customers to use the Langdale parking lot because it is technically publicly owned (I think?). Then it wouldn't be that much more of a ridiculous idea to use the Ferry dock which presumably would be publicly owned and used as well. But I'm sure BCF wouldn't want anything to do with the idea without having any sort of benefit to it Just a thought.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 7, 2010 22:40:28 GMT -8
I'm surprised we haven't heard about CLF wanting to use the Langdale float that the Stormaway III uses for its service. I guess that since they've already assumed that they could direct their customers to use the Langdale parking lot because it is technically publicly owned (I think?). Then it wouldn't be that much more of a ridiculous idea to use the Ferry dock which presumably would be publicly owned and used as well. But I'm sure BCF wouldn't want anything to do with the idea without having any sort of benefit to it I can't imagine why CLF thought they could use the BC Ferries parking lot, because it's not 'public'- it's BC Ferries property, under the terms of their lease with the province. Likewise, the dock. BC Ferries would have to have rocks in their head to allow a competitor to use their property, and I doubt CLF would have been willing to pay. This, aside from issues of security and liability.
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Post by nukeguy on Feb 9, 2010 17:59:29 GMT -8
So... that's it? Just a quick drive by shooting, lob a few unarmed grenades through the window, in English so fractured it makes Ihab Shaker look bard-like in comparison, despite the jibe about his Egyptian spelling?
Neil, you're just VERY upset that my post was not banned like yours!!! maybe your anger blinded you and made you believe that Ihab Shaker is the best English writer and is the most successful business man. It seems that you gave yourself permission to say your insight and opinion, however if someone has to say something you jump right in and accuse of lying. Can you tell me the reason why shaker's project failed in Toronto? you have mentioned in previous posts that you have investigated his previous venture in the east and you never mentioned the outcome. If you have no "grenades" don't throw "pebbles"
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 9, 2010 18:40:19 GMT -8
So... that's it? Just a quick drive by shooting, lob a few unarmed grenades through the window, in English so fractured it makes Ihab Shaker look bard-like in comparison, despite the jibe about his Egyptian spelling? Neil, you're just VERY upset that my post was not banned like yours!!! maybe your anger blinded you and made you believe that Ihab Shaker is the best English writer and is the most successful business man. It seems that you gave yourself permission to say your insight and opinion, however if someone has to say something you jump right in and accuse of lying. Can you tell me the reason why shaker's project failed in Toronto? you have mentioned in previous posts that you have investigated his previous venture in the east and you never mentioned the outcome. If you have no "grenades" don't throw "pebbles" Hey Nukeguy, I invite you to take a look at some of Neil's posts (he's got over 2,000 of them), and compare his consistent style to what you originally posted in your first post (the one that had the libel and hyperbole). If you don't notice a difference, then perhaps you shouldn't be posting here. And if you post like this again, you won't be posting here.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 10, 2010 9:48:19 GMT -8
... to which I would add, that if Nukeguy has any actual insights or information into past or present operations of Captain Shaker, they would be welcome here. The topic of CLF has been fairly extensively explored on this forum, with some 850 posts on two threads over two years. We're long past the point where vague generalizations on the theme of Ihab Shaker Is A Very Shady Fellow are of any help in advancing the conversation, so we're waiting to see if our new atomic friend has anything more than bluster to offer.
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Post by sven on Feb 11, 2010 5:46:09 GMT -8
Some days are better then others!
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