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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 17, 2012 7:19:47 GMT -8
[off topic]
Some of you who posted on this thread yesterday might notice that some of those posts are now missing.
- We've moved them out of this thread because the off-topic and personal attacks were pretty poor, and are not something that we want to continue to see on this forum.
For future reference:
- Calling someone "dumb", or using the "look Bub" style of put-down won't be tolerated here.
- Bringing in politics where you know you are just going to incite an off-topic won't be tolerated. And if this can't be self-controlled, it can be moderator-controlled through our magic "delete button".
- Politics are ok when they are relevant, and are used in a respectful non-inciting way. If you lack the required tact, then don't make the post.
[/off topic]
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 17, 2012 11:10:05 GMT -8
[off topic] Some of you who posted on this thread yesterday might notice that some of those posts are now missing. - We've moved them out of this thread because the off-topic and personal attacks were pretty poor, and are not something that we want to continue to see on this forum. For future reference: - Calling someone "dumb", or using the "look Bub" style of put-down won't be tolerated here. - Bringing in politics where you know you are just going to incite an off-topic won't be tolerated. And if this can't be self-controlled, it can be moderator-controlled through our magic "delete button". - Politics are ok when they are relevant, and are used in a respectful non-inciting way. If you lack the required tact, then don't make the post. [/off topic] Good. Finally. Political discussion can be made at The Tyee, and Bill TIeleman's blog. Go there. For ferries history, vessel design, and engineering and operations, stay here. Sorry, I think you've misinterpreted what I've said. Political discussion is very much welcome here on this forum, as long as people don't get into name calling (like "hey Bub") or calling people "dumb" for their opinions. - For those who can play by these rules, political interpretations of these discussion issues is very welcome. - For those who can't play by these rules, their posts will be deleted. Politics (with tact and context) are welcome on this forum. But it has to be done carefully. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 17, 2012 15:31:36 GMT -8
I've started this thread and moved in some recent posts from the BC Pacificats thread.
This is a good place for any type of "how should we discuss politics" discussion.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 17, 2012 15:41:53 GMT -8
If factual political debate is present that is fine. Factual meaning references to factual proven political activity that is fine. If personal politics is presented in terms of someone figuring out a person's political polarity, can it. It is possible through factual debate to remove political rhetoric and erronous assumption but some don't want to do so and should be told to can. it. So with that, back to factual discussion on ferries and yes when applicable factual debate on accompanying politics. I think the "can it" attitude is a problem, as was the "hey Bub" attitude. Politics are subjective and so it requires some acceptance of other people's rights to their differing views, and telling someone they are dumb (which you did yesterday) is not the way to discuss politics on this forum. I think that politics is not an objective science. It involves a lot of subjectivity, and that's ok because it's the nature of differing viewpoint. I don't think it's productive or possible to prove or disprove some of the general right-vs-left gulf-of-differences that exist in BCers. I'm not saying that "everyone is correct all the time, and no one has a wrong opinion". But I think that there will always be things that can't be resolved and that people need to respectfully disagree on. So, without the use of bold underlines, I wish to make it clear that subjective opinions of things political are always welcome here. And if someone doesn't agree with those types of political opinions, they should either ignore the matter, or challenge it in a respectful manner. As with most things on internet forums, it usually comes down to "how you say it". |
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Neil
Voyager 
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Apr 17, 2012 15:48:57 GMT -8
Good idea, Mr Horn. If factual political debate is present that is fine. Factual meaning references to factual proven political activity that is fine. If personal politics is presented in terms of someone figuring out a person's political polarity, can it. It is possible through factual debate to remove political rhetoric and erronous assumption but some don't want to do so and should be told to can. it. So with that, back to factual discussion on ferries and yes when applicable factual debate on accompanying politics. Mr Keenlyside, Thundering at people with boldface, underlined italics is no more agreeable than demeaning people with 'bub' and 'pal'. When I make a statement or give an opinion that has a political element, I hope I'm self aware enough to recognize that it's filtered through my own experiences and perceptions, and that others will not necessarily regard it as fact. Are you able to do the same? No one on this forum has been appointed arbiter of what is politically 'factual', and chances are, we'll continue to offer views on issues, as we see fit. I'm afraid you'll just have to deal with it. If you're uncomfortable with people's perceptions of your political affinities, I suppose you could do as one now departed member did, and go back an erase hundreds of posts. Failing that, you'll have to forgive us for making very reasonable conclusions about your biases. |
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Post by Mike C on Apr 18, 2012 12:19:39 GMT -8
This has been a bit of an ongoing vicious cycle. I'm not one to make calls, but the construction and establishment of a Seal Bay Ferry Terminal would probably be, by far, the most contentious politically fueled discussion in the history of Glen Clark.  The utlimate reason these so-called debates are unleashed, is because all things transportation are very political. Especially when that form of transportation has a pelthora of obvious deficencies and issues, which is overseen by the government. |
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Post by Name Omitted on Apr 18, 2012 17:05:58 GMT -8
The utlimate reason these so-called debates are unleashed, is because all things transportation are very political. It is probably worth making a distinction between public policy, and politics in general. The allocation of public funds must be in a sense political, but if the discussion is framed in the form of public policy, people of good faith can disagree agreeably for a very long time. There are facts that everyone can agree upon, such as passenger volume and operating costs. The problem becomes what happens when people start trying to proscribe motive. At the end of the day, the why of politics is not as important as the how of public policy, even though public policy is driven by the pervading values placed on a project by politicians (service vs. efficacy, etc.). |
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Post by Northern Exploration on Apr 18, 2012 19:17:55 GMT -8
Some of the people I respect most in my life are people I can disagree with, have different political views from or approach things in a totally different way, and yet never feel I am disrespected, dictated to, or made to feel like I am not intelligent just because I differ. Disagreeing becomes a positive because it is the exchange of views out of discovery, rather than out of arrogance. You would hope it is the same with forums but there is rampant lack of respect, and the detachment from the anonymous nature of the internet, makes things much worse. Unfortunately moderators have to sometimes be willing to lay down the law and carry a big stick.
In BC there are few topics as polarizing as BC Ferries. Everyone has an opinion that is deeply ingrained, and often there is a lack of respect for the other viewpoint.
Probably the closest in terms of reliance on marine transportation to BC is Newfoundland. Newfoundland probably is slightly more reliant but the smaller population makes things slightly different. The ferries were a condition of joining Confederation, and everyone also has defined opinions. Many there like to hate Marine Atlantic as much as BC'ers like to hate BCFerries. The difference there seems to be that there is more of an acceptance that if I choose to live in an outport I give up some ease of access. The history in BC is different and opinions of ferry service being a right is also different. Would be interesting to hear what the BC boys in the east have picked up in their travels and what their opinion is of the difference from the Rock to BC as they see it on this topic.
Some people grow more dogmatic with age and less tolerant. Others realize that there are often more than one route between A and B and as long as we get to the destination, the exact road doesn't matter, lets just move and get there. However, the behaviour on forums would lead you to believe the people in the first are in greater numbers than in the latter.
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