mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Jul 9, 2012 16:24:22 GMT -8
:)well all I can say to that is they sure have a better lid on things than mrdot, has on many of his illustrations and pics., over the past years! :)mrdot.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,172
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Post by Neil on Jul 9, 2012 20:12:36 GMT -8
I'm not quite sure why someone would have put his name down for a flag when he now seems to be so clear as to why BC Ferries wouldn't allow such a thing, but, whatever...
It's more than a bit ironic that BC Ferries is so protective of their beloved dogwood. Here's an organization who's officials have often taken the opportunity to dump on the public structure that came before them, and have often voiced the opinion that only they stand between the public and sinking ships and filthy washrooms. They wasted little time getting rid of the dogwood flag in favor of their wave logo, as part of the new image.
But don't you dare touch that dogwood, you young Viking whippersnapper. That's ours. We might not be proud of it, but we might want to make some money off it, someday.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jul 9, 2012 20:44:12 GMT -8
I am a little surprised at BC Ferries action towards this. After years of "privatized" BC Ferries dumping on the Dogwood era and eradicating it completely, now they want to "protect" that symbol from a group of people who are, without doubt, their biggest fans and have a genuine passion towards BC Ferries.
Maybe an e-mail to BC Ferries might straighten things out......
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 9, 2012 21:09:18 GMT -8
I'll have to save that one. At $150, count me out. And of course, BCFS wants to make sure nothing but the slugs exist in the fleet.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,172
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Post by Neil on Jul 9, 2012 21:40:29 GMT -8
I am a little suprised at BC Ferries action towards this. After years of "privatized" BC Ferries dumping on the Dogwood era and eradicating it completely, now they want to "protect" that symbol from a group of people who are, without doubt, their biggest fans and have a genuine passion towards BC Ferries. Maybe an e-mail to BC Ferries might straighten things out...... Well, good luck with that. But you never know. It's amusing to contemplate the suggestion that BC Ferries might have been monitoring the occasional critical post on this modest little forum and said to themselves, "No way we're letting those guys use our dogwood." I was a bit surprised at the reaction to Mr Viking's innocent endeavour as well. Dissertations on copyright law aside, I would have thought BC Ferries had washed its hands completely of the dogwood flag, and that it was back in the public domain. Has anyone seen any products in the gift shops in recent years that include the old logo?
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jul 9, 2012 21:51:15 GMT -8
Has anyone seen any products in the gift shops in recent years that include the old logo? Nothing that I can recall off-hand. However, the Queen of the North in Expo scheme (and a faint Dogwood on the funnel) continues to survive on BC Ferries' gift certificates. ;D Now that I mentioned it here, watch, BC Ferries will change it...
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 10, 2012 2:43:43 GMT -8
Wowee, what a turn of events, eh? Well, I guess I'll spend a half hour or so tomorrow fabricating an email to BCF with regards to this. Does anybody have any suggestions as to what to include, or anything else of sorts?
I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. Should I suggest us buying the flags through BCF, essentially using them as a middleman between us and The Flag Shop? Or should I just request permission?
Blahh... reply with your suggestions. For now, I'm going to sleep.
PS: I love your sig and DP, Scott. One of the best yet! It really matches the WCF Dark scheme.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 10, 2012 10:16:16 GMT -8
Has anyone seen any products in the gift shops in recent years that include the old logo? Nothing that I can recall off-hand. However, the Queen of the North in Expo scheme (and a faint Dogwood on the funnel) continues to survive on BC Ferries' gift certificates. ;D Now that I mentioned it here, watch, BC Ferries will change it... Branding is one of the most protected areas of a business, so none of this really surprizes me. You invest big money in new branding and prepare binders on the standards and rules for that logo. Otherwise you have departments going willy nilly doing their desktop stuff and you end up with a bunch of public personas. When a business purchases another, takes over another, or assumes the work of another, branding all comes with the deal and is part of the contract for any smart company. So protecting a brand is a big deal and must be done. Otherwise another ferry operator could have purchased the Dogwood Logo and set up operations in competition to BC Ferries with the look and branding of the older goverment entity. Imagine if Seaspan was able to that and had kept the CATS or built their own ferries. That being said, a limited souvenir run for ferry fanatics should be a no-brainer for BCFerries and they could easily authorize a very limited run. It would be entirely appropriate to set limitations on number and use. They also could authorize a version that varies slightly in some way from the old dogwood flag so there is no confusion with an original. It might just involve a banner within the flag such as "Commemorating 19xx to 19xx". Or print in small type along one edge the words "Reproduced with Permission blah blah blah." The flag would have no monetary value to BCFerries as there is likely zip market for a product like that so even if they agreed, this would likely remain a limited run. Too often companies do something stupid in defence of an important business axiom, without actually thinking and doing what actually makes the most sense. Many companies embrace their history and longevity without compromising their brand. The most obvious example is the retro jets by airlines where old logos and colour schemes are used, as we have discussed before. Air Canada's brand is enhanced by the A319 that sported the Trans Canada Airlines Logo. Mess ups do happen. Like the split up of Rolls Royce and Bentley to BMW and VW. There were a few surprizes there. VW outbid BMW for Rolls Royce/Bentley from the owner Vickers. VW had the factory, Bentley and rights to the shape of the radiator and the Spirit of Ectasy (hood ornament) for RR. But aircraft engine maker retained the overall rights to the name Rolls Royce as they always, and decided to license the Rolls Royce name to BMW. BMW had been already powering the two brands and the contract to continue to sell engines to Bentley in the interim, and could end the deal before VW was ready with their own engines for Bentley. So BMW had the upper hand and purchased the Spirit of Ectasy and trademark radiator from VW. Had VW played hardball they likely would have had the engine supply cut off and the Bentley manufacture would grind to a halt costing a huge amount of money, workforce disruption etc. etc. So rather than VW making both marquees, they now just produce Bentley and BMW Rolls Royce. In a face saving measure VW after the fact said that really all they wanted was Bentley. If that is true, they probably orginally thought the Rolls marquee would have become extict, rather than continue as a competitor under someone else, or that they could have done a deal with RR Aerospace. So brand and name rights is a very important part of business. I think that the Queen of the North on gift certificates is either a booboo that no one thought to change, or someone tried to save a few bucks in design and printing. Setting asside any emotional attachment I have to the ship, I would think that since the QoftN is no longer and the branding is out of date BCF, my marketing side says someone should change this asap.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 14:41:51 GMT -8
Be specific (and do not under any circumstances come across as being demanding) and why. Offer something in return if possible. Be courteous polite and professional and respectful (without getting into grovelling at the knees). Paul, we're not 5-10 years old. I think most if not all of us know how to write a polite request/letter/email without your advice on what should be the general tone. - As for the topic itself, i'm still in but only for ONE flag.
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 10, 2012 16:14:35 GMT -8
This forum is much too valuable to have very valuable relations lost over a mis-step, intentionally targeted or unintentioned error. Exactly why I'll be posting on this thread a draft of the letter I write to BCF prior to my sending of it so that it can be reviewed and edited by everyone here.
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Post by Dane on Jul 10, 2012 17:09:45 GMT -8
No, that is correct. The Government does not "own" rights of things like the flags. All ownership of things related to BC Ferries is within the BC Ferry Corporation, not the Government. Even Crown Corporations such as ICBC, BC Buildings has copyrights to their logos and other graphical appliances. Had a slow day so I did some digging today on this, albeit at the federal level, and you're actually incorrect. Crown corporation copyrights are ultimately held by the Treasury Board secretariat on behalf of the Government. While this answer is for the Feds I am sure it is inline with what is done at the Provincial level. The government owning things does not automatically mean the people have the rights to duplicate something and make money off it without due compensation to the government. The government (or any entity) has the right to insist on compensation for use of its works, particularly if money is being made off it without fair compensation. While that obviously is correct it is not what I was getting at. Rather the wrong organization may be enforcing copyright. However, for all I know it was legitimately transferred to BCFS. It would be like me stopping people from using the Golden Arches...
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Post by Scott on Jul 10, 2012 21:23:52 GMT -8
Does anyone know if BC Ferries has a stash of old Dogwood flags hidden somewhere at Deas or at HQ? There must have been a lot of leftovers when they did the switch. Maybe they wouldn't mind boosting their revenues a bit by selling them off!
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Mirrlees
Voyager
Bathtub!
Deck Engineer- Queen of Richmond
Posts: 1,013
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Post by Mirrlees on Jul 10, 2012 21:54:27 GMT -8
Does anyone know if BC Ferries has a stash of old Dogwood flags hidden somewhere at Deas or at HQ? There must have been a lot of leftovers when they did the switch. Maybe they wouldn't mind boosting their revenues a bit by selling them off! I would assume that anything that had the Dogwood on it swiftly went to the landfill in 2003.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Jul 10, 2012 22:08:28 GMT -8
:)when BC ferries went to their re-branding, it was a wholesale witchunt for any surviving dogwood items, and their was an overtime working of the shredder, on just about everything from the previous era, much like the political clensings after every swing of the pendulem, in this very polorized province of ours. and get reddy for non stop hate adds, from the dirty backroom tory machine boys, witness the risky dix, and now risky mulcar attack adds, maybe to be followed by something like the ugly face adds they did on cretchin a few years back! mrdot.
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Post by Dane on Jul 15, 2012 20:07:59 GMT -8
I would doubt the Treasury Board in BC would bother on something miniscule as rights of ownership of marques or marketing of appliances. You would be very surprised what the Federal TB is responsible for! Look, they even tell me how to sign my e-mails! www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/tb-bo/sb-bs-eng.asp
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Post by Dane on Jul 15, 2012 20:31:29 GMT -8
This will be my last post this far off topic - as my last was actually a joke - but you're incorrect. TB regulates "Common Look and Feel 2.0" (which includes those signature blocks) which is a federal government wide standard. The Canadian Forces, as a note of interest, is the only part of the Government that has separate writing standards. The Department of National Defence (civilian side) uses the federal guidelines (as per TB); the CF differs because of our good friends in NATO.
A great example of TB's standardization reach is about four years ago all our e-mail addresses changed from:
lastname.firstname@insertdomain.gc.ca
to
firstname.lastname@insertdomain.gc.ca
TB also dictates social media standards, web layout, phone messages, business cards, copyrights, external communication standards, and bilingualism as it affects government operations. Once I had never heard of them. Now they seem to control my life!
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Post by Dane on Jul 15, 2012 20:44:03 GMT -8
I wish! And I have been in for seven years. My welcome seems very late!
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Jul 18, 2012 8:34:53 GMT -8
I wish! And I have been in for seven years. My welcome seems very late! Better late than never. Never got one myself I'd go in for this I could use at least one. Now a few locomotives painted in the BCR dogwood logo scheme would be even better.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Jan 14, 2020 16:21:15 GMT -8
just curious... bureaucracy killed this flag project eh?
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chumber
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 5
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Post by chumber on Jul 7, 2020 16:00:01 GMT -8
I already have one, but it wouldn't hurt to have another. I would like one
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chumber
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 5
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Post by chumber on Jul 7, 2020 16:00:56 GMT -8
I would like one
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Post by Mike C on Jul 7, 2020 16:18:31 GMT -8
Regrettably this didn’t pan out - this is a thread from 2012, and unfortunately in that 8 years, we didn’t receive any flags. Sorry to disappoint
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chumber
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 5
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Post by chumber on Jul 7, 2020 16:51:40 GMT -8
Yes I would like one
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Post by Mike on Jul 7, 2020 17:10:20 GMT -8
As Mike C said, there are no flags.
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