lifc
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Post by lifc on Nov 9, 2012 9:16:35 GMT -8
This is a much superior design to the KdT's, they even have rudder and propeller protection. Does anyone know what engines are they going to use, hopefully not those hungry EMDs.
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 10, 2012 7:46:09 GMT -8
This is a much superior design to the KdT's, they even have rudder and propeller protection. Does anyone know what engines are they going to use, hopefully not those hungry EMDs. Not sure... the "hungry EMDs" that wound up in the KdT's were intended for this class; however, I'm not sure they meet current pollution regulations. Either way, I'm pretty sure that they weren't intending to install four of them like the J1s, J2s and Supers. And the design should be superior; it's been around since 1976. There's been a lot of time to perfect it. ;D
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lifc
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Post by lifc on Nov 10, 2012 13:14:51 GMT -8
If the EMD's are to be suitable anywhere they would be better in this class. They would run about 80% power, which is their most efficient spot as they are well into the turbocharger boost. They do not even approach the turbos in the KdT's. I think they still have one set of EMD's in the warehouse, while they are likely not pollution compliant, they can use them as they already own them. If they are going to use EMd's, they could take a set out of a KdT, rebuild them and put them in these boats. Then they could replace the ones in the KdT with a set of 4 strokes, like the Cat C280-6, or equivalent. I just do not think the State will be that intelligent.
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SolDuc
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Post by SolDuc on Nov 10, 2012 13:25:41 GMT -8
If the EMD's are to be suitable anywhere they would be better in this class. They would run about 80% power, which is their most efficient spot as they are well into the turbocharger boost. They do not even approach the turbos in the KdT's. I think they still have one set of EMD's in the warehouse, while they are likely not pollution compliant, they can use them as they already own them. If they are going to use EMd's, they could take a set out of a KdT, rebuild them and put them in these boats. Then they could replace the ones in the KdT with a set of 4 strokes, like the Cat C280-6, or equivalent. I just do not think the State will be that intelligent. According to several sources (WSDOT website, KOMO, King 5...) the last set of EMD is gonna go in the Walla 2 if they can fit her. See the Walla 2 thread for more info.
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lifc
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Post by lifc on Nov 10, 2012 17:36:47 GMT -8
Looks like it will be a while before they are needed in the Walla Walla. Let's pull a set from the Kennewick and re-engine it with 4 strokes, then we can put that set in the Walla Walla.. The Kennewick's engines should be hardly worn, used boat, used engines.
The Cat 280-6 has the same RPM range as the EMD's, ought to burn 2/3 the fuel and we can reduce the engine room staff by one. We all win here.
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Post by suburbanite on Nov 11, 2012 4:50:26 GMT -8
The Walla Walla blew an (electric) drive motor. Her (Diesel) engines are apparently fine.
The state used federal transportation funds years ago to purchase four sets of propulsion machinery for the four 144 car ferries authorized by the legislature about a decade ago. Three pairs of those 12-710 EMD engines went into the 64 car ferries. One complete set of propulsion machinery remains and is going into the first 144. The engines can be used as is since the engines meet the emissions regulations in place at the time the project started.
Cat/EMD has yet to announce their Tier 4 compliant 710. Once they do they will offer kits for upgrading older 710 series engines. If the 64 car ferries get repowered with lower horsepower engines their 710s could get overhauled with Tier 4 kits and put in later 144s.
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lifc
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Post by lifc on Nov 11, 2012 18:54:33 GMT -8
I do not think the existing engines would have to meet the new pollution specs as they have been in State ownership since they were purchased, in there words the engines in the KdT's could go right into a 144 without modification. The new engines for the KdT's would have to meet pollution requirements at the time the boats were built, which would be tier II. If there are any new tier II engines in builder's or dealer's stock, they would be fine. Fuel economy started to decline substantially after tier II, tier III's often burn 10% or more fuel than their earlier models.
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SolDuc
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Post by SolDuc on Nov 11, 2012 20:59:43 GMT -8
Changing the subject -- Does anybody know if it is possible to visit either Nichols Bros. or Vigor like you can visit Boeing? Or is it too secret? ;D
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Nov 11, 2012 22:34:43 GMT -8
Changing the subject -- Does anybody know if it is possible to visit either Nichols Bros. or Vigor like you can visit Boeing? Or is it too secret? ;D You can drive by the yard on the waterfront drive which leads you to and from Bush Point Road. The assembly is right next to the fence as well as the wheelhouses. Think Nichols will be cutting out the letters and applying them onto the green band areas at the ends of the superstructure modules after Tuesday this week. It is Tuesday when the names of the first two Olympics will be selected. As you can see in the below agenda, the names should be known by 1200PST. wstc.wa.gov/Meetings/AgendasMinutes/agendas/2012/documents/2012_1113_Tacoma_Agenda.pdfWASHINGTON STATE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSIONLOCAL MEETING AGENDATacoma City Hall Council Chambers 747 Market Street Tacoma, WA Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 8:30 a.m.Please note: All listed times are estimates only and the Commission reserves the right to move agenda items as needed. 1. CHAIRMAN WELCOME AND COMMISSIONER INTRODUCTIONS 8:30 2. TRANSPORTATION 101Presenters: Paul Parker, Senior Policy Analyst, WSTC and Kevin Dayton, Region Administrator, Olympic Region, WSDOT 8:35 3. CITY TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, NEEDS AND CHALLENGESPresenters: Mayor Marilyn Strickland, City of Tacoma and Dick McKinley, Public Works Director, City of Tacoma 9:00 4. COUNTY TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, NEEDS AND CHALLENGESPresenters: Pat McCarthy, Pierce County Executive and Brian Ziegler, P.E., Public Works Director 9:30 BREAK 10:00 5. PORT ISSUES, NEEDS AND CHALLENGESPresenter: Commissioner Don Meyer, Vice-President, Port of Tacoma 10:15 6. REGIONAL ACCESS MOBILITY PROJECTPresenters: Tom Pierson, CEO, Tacoma Pierce Chamber and Pat McCarthy, Pierce County Executive 10:45 7. COMMISSION BUSINESSMeeting Summary Approval/Adoption Approval of October 16 & 17, 2012 Regular Commission Meeting Summary Ferry Naming11:00 LUNCH 12:00 8. PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, NEEDS AND CHALLENGESPierce Transit Presenter: Lynne Griffith, CEO, Pierce Transit Sound Transit Presenter: Rachel Smith, Government and Community Relations Manager, Sound Transit 1:00 BREAK 1:45 9. EASTSIDE CORRIDOR INDEPENDENT TRAFFIC AND REVENUE STUDYPresenters: Jeff Buxbaum, Cambridge Systematics, Jaimie Sloboden, Cambridge Systematics, Craig Stone, Director, Toll Division, WSDOT and Kim Henry, I-405/SR 167 Project Director, WSDOT 2:00 10. TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE TOLLING UPDATEPresenter: Craig Stone, Director, Toll Division, WSDOT 3:30 11. PUBLIC COMMENT 3:45 ADJOURN4:00
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 14:02:45 GMT -8
What names do you think will win for the first two Olympic Class?
1) Samish. 2) Hoquiam. 3) Muckleshoot. 4) Tokitae. 5) Sammamish. 6) Cowlitz. 7)Ivar Hahlund.
I think the names that will win are: Sammamish and Ivar Hahlund.
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Post by Kahloke on Nov 12, 2012 16:16:32 GMT -8
What names do you think will win for the first two Olympic Class? 1) Samish. 2) Hoquiam. 3) Muckleshoot. 4) Tokitae. 5) Sammamish. 6) Cowlitz. 7) Ivar Hahlung. I think the names that will win are: Sammamish and Ivar Hahlung. I really have no idea which ones will win, but personally, I'm hoping for Sammamish and Hoquiam. Those are the names I voted for on the F.R.O.G. (Ferry rider's Opinion Group) Survey last month. I seriously doubt that Ivar Haglund will win because it's not a Native American name, which is one of the conditions of naming ferries. BTW - it's Haglund, not Hahlung ;D
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SolDuc
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Post by SolDuc on Nov 12, 2012 16:22:48 GMT -8
What names do you think will win for the first two Olympic Class? 1) Samish. 2) Hoquiam. 3) Muckleshoot. 4) Tokitae. 5) Sammamish. 6) Cowlitz. 7) Ivar Hahlung. I think the names that will win are: Sammamish and Ivar Hahlung. I don't think that Ivar Haglund will go near the "finals" at anytime. Yes, you might say that there has been ferries named after people before ( Chetzemoka, Sealth, Kitsap...) BUT the names are native american. I personally think that one of the names will be either Samish or Sammamish and the other one will be either Hoquiam or Cowlitz.
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SolDuc
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Post by SolDuc on Nov 12, 2012 16:29:22 GMT -8
Those are the names I voted for on the F.R.O.G. (Ferry rider's Opinion Group) Survey last month. Is the F.R.O.G. survey for the names still open? I'm not able to see it even though I have an account there.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 12, 2012 17:02:13 GMT -8
Those are the names I voted for on the F.R.O.G. (Ferry rider's Opinion Group) Survey last month. Is the F.R.O.G. survey for the names still open? I'm not able to see it even though I have an account there. I believe the survey for the new names closed.
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Post by EGfleet on Nov 13, 2012 5:20:48 GMT -8
What names do you think will win for the first two Olympic Class? 1) Samish. 2) Hoquiam. 3) Muckleshoot. 4) Tokitae. 5) Sammamish. 6) Cowlitz. 7) Ivar Hahlung. I think the names that will win are: Sammamish and Ivar Hahlung. I really have no idea which ones will win, but personally, I'm hoping for Sammamish and Hoquiam. Those are the names I voted for on the F.R.O.G. (Ferry rider's Opinion Group) Survey last month. I seriously doubt that Ivar Haglund will win because it's not a Native American name, which is one of the conditions of naming ferries. BTW - it's Haglund, not Hahlung ;D There's also the issue of it being a corporate name, which is actually against the rules. I think Muckleshoot will have the same issue, as I know the first thing I think of when I hear that name is "casino." I was trying to think of the last ferries named for non-natives...you have to go back at least 80, if not 90 years, and I don't think any of them lasted with that name past about 1925 or so... Bailey Gatzert, named for the mayor of Seattle (and the first ferry to carry cars on the Bremerton or "Navy Yard route" as it was known) and the H. B. Kennedy which was later renamed Seattle, and I don't believe it ever carried cars while named the Kennedy. The only other one I can think of off the top of my head is the Robert Bridges, a little car ferry that was one of the first Anacortes-Sidney boats, but by that time it had been renamed Mount Vernon. Personally I'd like to see Hoquiam and Cowlitz...although admittedly I'm not thrilled about any of them. As they insist on calling them "Olympic Class" (which will always make me think of Olympic, Titanic, Britannic) after the mountains they could have at least pulled a few more names from the region and gotten a Quillayute or Quilcene out there. It's one of the reasons I'm hoping Hoquiam is used--at least it is from the general area. I suspect we're going to get a Samish for sure.
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Post by Kahloke on Nov 13, 2012 5:43:02 GMT -8
As they insist on calling them "Olympic Class" (which will always make me think of Olympic, Titanic, Britannic) after the mountains they could have at least pulled a few more names from the region and gotten a Quillayute or Quilcene out there. How about Skokomish? That would be a great name for one of the new ferries.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 13, 2012 10:06:08 GMT -8
As they insist on calling them "Olympic Class" (which will always make me think of Olympic, Titanic, Britannic) after the mountains they could have at least pulled a few more names from the region and gotten a Quillayute or Quilcene out there. How about Skokomish? That would be a great name for one of the new ferries. I would agree with that, seeing as how the Skokomish River is the largest river flowing off the Olympic Peninsula. Unfortunately the name never made it to the list of possible names to choose from.
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SolDuc
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Post by SolDuc on Nov 13, 2012 14:40:39 GMT -8
The names just got selected! They are on the WSDOT page! Without making you wait anymore, the first ferry will be the MV Tokitae and the second will be the MV Samish!
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Post by Mike C on Nov 13, 2012 14:56:08 GMT -8
The names just got selected! They are on the WSDOT page! Without making you wait anymore, the first ferry will be the MV Tokitae and the second will be the MV Samish! Thank god. Kudos to WSF for sticking with their traditional naming scheme and not taking a page out of BC Ferries books by trying to turn a blind eye to the past. There were some names that I was a little afraid of (Cowlitz is a good one that would probably be made fun of a fair bit north of the border) so I'm glad those are the names that prevailed, for your sake and ours. Was kinda hoping for a Q-boat though...
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SolDuc
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Post by SolDuc on Nov 13, 2012 15:04:39 GMT -8
I was trying to think of the last ferries named for non-natives...you have to go back at least 80, if not 90 years, and I don't think any of them lasted with that name past about 1925 or so... Bailey Gatzert, named for the mayor of Seattle (and the first ferry to carry cars on the Bremerton or "Navy Yard route" as it was known) and the H. B. Kennedy which was later renamed Seattle, and I don't believe it ever carried cars while named the Kennedy. The only other one I can think of off the top of my head is the Robert Bridges, a little car ferry that was one of the first Anacortes-Sidney boats, but by that time it had been renamed Mount Vernon. What anout the Vashon and the Bainbridge? Both were non-natives people. Even though only the last name was selected.
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Post by EGfleet on Nov 13, 2012 15:23:43 GMT -8
I was trying to think of the last ferries named for non-natives...you have to go back at least 80, if not 90 years, and I don't think any of them lasted with that name past about 1925 or so... Bailey Gatzert, named for the mayor of Seattle (and the first ferry to carry cars on the Bremerton or "Navy Yard route" as it was known) and the H. B. Kennedy which was later renamed Seattle, and I don't believe it ever carried cars while named the Kennedy. The only other one I can think of off the top of my head is the Robert Bridges, a little car ferry that was one of the first Anacortes-Sidney boats, but by that time it had been renamed Mount Vernon. Well, I did say off the top of my head. And technically those were named for the Island of the same name, which happened to be named for people. What anout the Vashon and the Bainbridge? Both were non-natives people. Even though only the last name was selected. Okay, that was odd. My reply got eaten. Well, I did say "Off the top of my head." And technically, those two were named for the Islands...which were named after people.
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lifc
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Post by lifc on Nov 13, 2012 15:46:55 GMT -8
Tokitae,
How appropriate, now we are going to be the butt of every Marijuana joke there is, especially now we have passed the law. I know it's an Indian name, but this is just plain stupid, considering the other names available.
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Post by dumbthird on Nov 13, 2012 16:00:03 GMT -8
The names just got selected! They are on the WSDOT page! Without making you wait anymore, the first ferry will be the MV Tokitae and the second will be the MV Samish! Arrrgh. Even though i figured it wouldn't happen, i was hoping for a departure from the native theme. My eye's involuntarily roll every time i hear Kwa-di Tabil.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 13, 2012 16:21:09 GMT -8
"Uh, Dude, I'd like to make a reservation for the 4:20pm sailing on the Tokitae."
;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 16:22:50 GMT -8
Without making you wait anymore, the first ferry will be the MV Tokitae and the second will be the MV Samish! I hate the name Tokitae. On the other hand, I do love Samish!
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