Quatchi
Voyager 
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Sept 16, 2008 22:10:36 GMT -8
Out of balance propellers are really bad. This summer the prop on my dads boat sheared a blade on its way up to speed. The boat shook so much before I could kill the engine that doors, drawers, and stuff was all over the place. It even cracked a window. It was an interesting 16km ride back to our cabin on a 9.9 kicker engine. We figure the prop had gotten a little freeze thaw over the winter because it was in the snow for a while and even froze into it and a stress line had appeared.
Now I'm talking about a 20' boat with a 14" prop. Imagine the damage the SOBC props could do to the vessel if they were out of balance.
It would be interesting to see if the shaft and bearings are damaged on the SOBC.
Cheers,
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Post by Hardy on Sept 17, 2008 4:22:19 GMT -8
According to CurCon, saner heads have finally prevailed and SoBC has given her spot to QoV for the day. Anyone see a stolen rusty old Chev half-ton with an odd-shaped oversized tarped over-load in the back drive thru the gates down on Rice Mill Road overnight?  |
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887 
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 17, 2008 11:02:12 GMT -8
Well from my sources, one engine has been completely down for several days now. It requires a complete rebuild, or complete replacement in order to be fixed. The engine oversped, (doubled its rated RPMs), and cooked itself after the automatic shutdown failed to initiate. I can only speculate that after it ran on that gimped propellar (missing blade?) for a while, that it messed up the engines on the starboard side. Although I'm no qualified expert of course, it would only make sense from a casual standpoint. I told my dad about this, and he knew right away what had happened... the change in vibrations in the propeller shaft was transmitted back through all the other machinery attached to the shaft. Apparently, it doesn't take very long for high-frequency vibrations to cause acute damage... the kind of damage that completely alters the behaviour of the moving parts involved. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 11:29:32 GMT -8
I guess that they are awaiting a new engine or parts before they fix her. When she was built, the engines were put in place and the rest of the boat was built around the engines. So if the engine is being replaced, it may be a major job, requiring dry docking.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
Voyager
Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
Posts: 1,671
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Sept 17, 2008 11:46:27 GMT -8
Well from my sources, one engine has been completely down for several days now. It requires a complete rebuild, or complete replacement in order to be fixed. The engine oversped, (doubled its rated RPMs), and cooked itself after the automatic shutdown failed to initiate. I can only speculate that after it ran on that gimped propellar (missing blade?) for a while, that it messed up the engines on the starboard side. Although I'm no qualified expert of course, it would only make sense from a casual standpoint. I told my dad about this, and he knew right away what had happened... the change in vibrations in the propeller shaft was transmitted back through all the other machinery attached to the shaft. Apparently, it doesn't take very long for high-frequency vibrations to cause acute damage... the kind of damage that completely alters the behaviour of the moving parts involved. Definitely. The vibrations caused by an out of balance shaft can eat up seals and bearings in short order as will an over-sped engine as suggested also. I would be surprised if the block can't be salvaged through a rebuild. Most (and I'm pretty sure all big) diesels engines have sleeved cylinders where piston and sleeve can be removed as a unit to both speed repair and reduce overhaul expenses. Typically you would only have to completely re and re a block if a bearing spins so badly that the bearing housing is damaged beyond refurbishment, or if a connecting rod separates and punches holes in the block. |
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Post by Mac Write on Sept 17, 2008 14:15:39 GMT -8
How long are we talking about the Spirit of BC being out of service? I need some quality time with the Saanich (like 4 round trips) with her, and if the Spirit of BC is going to be out for awhile, she me out to play allot more which would mean I can spent allot more time with her (don't worry Vancouver, I want to spend allot of time with you as well, we already spent one day together).
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Post by Hardy on Sept 17, 2008 17:10:28 GMT -8
The service notice posted seems to suggest that the SoBC will be back by 1500 Thursday. Whether BCFS and DPMI can meet this deadline ... I will wait and see. If this timeline is to be met, I do not foresee that it could be an engine replacement; even a partial rebuild seems to be TIGHT. That said, I sure hope they don't send her back out half-arsed!
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Sept 17, 2008 17:41:52 GMT -8
This is even better, Swartz Bay is full for the night, no extra sailings. How rude.
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Post by oceaneer77 on Sept 17, 2008 19:23:29 GMT -8
are you all sure on the engine failure..?
I have heard a rumor that it was a bad propeller seal..
The version i heard was..
The did damage to propeller..
divers fix problem but the engineers had drained down the shaft seal header tank to far and ended up getting water in the shaft seal assembly.
(not wanting to cause a large oil spill)
Upon run up.. oil in shaft seal looks like milk..
Boat to dry dock to drain shaft seal completely.
Boat running but too much damage to shaft bearings from above problem.
Shaft not usable
Boat out of service.
I dont know it this is correct but...
Thanks
Oceaneer77
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Post by gordon on Sept 17, 2008 19:48:14 GMT -8
Besides the Cs & super Cs how many of the other ferries are double ended ?
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Post by Kahloke on Sept 17, 2008 19:57:07 GMT -8
Besides the Cs & super Cs how many of the other ferries are double ended ? Technically, many of the intermediate and minor vessels are double-ended, albeit with one wheelhouse in the centre, as is the case with the Queens of Capilano and Cumberland, or Skeena Queen, Quinsam, and Kuper, OR on the side, as in the K-Barges like Klitsa, Kahloke, & Kwuna. Never-the-less, they are double-ended, even with one bridge. However, the C's and Super C's are the only double-ended, double wheelhouse vessels in the BC fleet. |
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Post by Hardy on Sept 17, 2008 20:12:01 GMT -8
are you all sure on the engine failure..? I have heard a rumor that it was a bad propeller seal.. Hmmm, well, that would get us to the unusable boat ending that we are at. Trying to pry information out of BCFS (or in most cases, just waiting for them to tell the truth about what is wrong, rather than trying to spin EVERY single thing) is an exercise in futility. Without a few inside sources getting us the information, I doubt that we will ever hear what the official cause of the SoBC's respite is/was. |
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Post by Hardy on Sept 17, 2008 20:14:08 GMT -8
Besides the Cs & super Cs how many of the other ferries are double ended ? Technically, many of the intermediate and minor vessels are double-ended, albeit with one wheelhouse in the centre Very accurate and detailed response, orcas. Good points for gordon to ponder; the question was a tad ambiguous, but I think that you succinctly answered both possible interpretations of it! |
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Post by PCL Driver on Sept 18, 2008 7:37:12 GMT -8
My contact on the SOBC says that the crankshaft of one of the starboard engines was cracked in its overrun. If they need to put in a new crank, it has to be built, as there are no spares. He states also that there is now damage to the other starboard engine as well.
Repairs to the SOBC could run upwards of $6 million, and the ship could be out of commission for up to 3 months. He also states that BCFS is contemplating speeding up crew training on the Celebration, and moving the SOVI to Tsawwassen until full repairs are completed on the SOBC.
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Sept 18, 2008 11:53:13 GMT -8
My contact reports main engine failure but the ship can still operate on 3.
I wouldn't be surprised if she is out for a long time. They really need to do some work on her. Maybe in the interim while waiting for parts she will get some TLC.
Cheers,
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 18, 2008 13:10:47 GMT -8
My contact on the SOBC says that the crankshaft of one of the starboard engines was cracked in its overrun. If they need to put in a new crank, it has to be built, as there are no spares. He states also that there is now damage to the other starboard engine as well. Repairs to the SOBC could run upwards of $6 million, and the ship could be out of commission for up to 3 months. He also states that BCFS is contemplating speeding up crew training on the Celebration, and moving the SOVI to Tsawwassen until full repairs are completed on the SOBC. Remember the world we live in... for a company that seems to not have been interested in possibly preventing this issue with immediate attention to the propeller problem when first occured, do not expect they will show too much TLC to the ship after the fact either. They would just run another cost benefit analysis and find that TLC is too expensive for a ship that will only continue to lose it's value and likely be retired within ten years. Just playing Devil's advocate, but our profit obsessed world seems to have lost that personal touch completely, that would allow any thought of spending a little extra money on time tested philosophies such as TLC, and taking good care of what you own. Individually, some people might like to ease the SOBC's suffering, but corporately, they will likely not be able to escape the chain-gang and will be unable step outside their shackles. I'm just wondering if all of this might possibly mean a little bit of a reprieve for the Saanich if the SOBC is out for a significant time. |
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Post by Kahloke on Sept 18, 2008 13:47:15 GMT -8
If the Queen of Vancouver is going to start subbing for Alberni on Route 30, and SOBC is out of commission, I would think BCFS will have no choice but to extend Saanich's duty as the 3rd boat on Route 1, unless there is another vessel available somewhere.
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Post by gordon on Sept 18, 2008 14:08:28 GMT -8
When is the earliest that BCFS can have crew training finfshed on the CC?
I haveseen a couple of media reports saying that she will be in serice next month.
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Post by Nickfro on Sept 18, 2008 14:35:49 GMT -8
The SoBC is back in service today with the 3pm sailing from Tsawwassen. According to Siitech, she is running across the Strait of Georgia at a speed of under 18 knots. It'll be interesting to see if the SoBC is able to maintain its schedule. . .especially on a busy Friday or Sunday.
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Post by Hardy on Sept 18, 2008 20:12:53 GMT -8
Well, they got her patched up and held together with the specialized "Red Green Replacement Parts" FOR THE TIME BEING[/u][/b]. I wonder when she will blow the duct-tape apart next though?
She maintained her schedule today ... I sure hope that they do accelerate the crew training on the CC, but for the CC to come to the SoBC's rescue, they would have to (temporarily) reassign the SoVI to Tsawwassen ......
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Post by Kahloke on Sept 18, 2008 20:24:58 GMT -8
If things really are that bad on SOBC, then it sounds like the responsible thing to do is to remove her from service and take the necessary time to fix things correctly. Once CC starts service, she could be the #1 boat of out Swartz Bay, SOVI could move to Tsawwassen and replace SOBC as the #1 boat from that side, and Saanich can continue as the #2 boat out of Swartz Bay. Route 1 will be going back to a 3-boat schedule on the 15th of October, right?
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Post by Balfour on Sept 18, 2008 20:33:20 GMT -8
I sure hope the SOBC hangs in there through the weekend... I'm travelling on route 1 tomorrow evening and again on Sunday.
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Post by Hardy on Sept 18, 2008 20:33:55 GMT -8
I AM worried that perhaps BCFS is NOT taking proper care of the SoBC and just jury-rigging her. The way that have handled her problems in the past half-month is APPALLING!! If it comes to light that they (BCFS) are just shoving the SoBC out of the dock half-assed and running her into the ground, then I am sure that there will be hell to pay. It is completely irresponsible for any corporation to treat their equipment like this.
Also, I really do doubt that BCFS plans to only run the SoBC for 10 more years as was alluded to by another forum member's post ... unless they plan on running the living snot out of her and then just scrapping her ... which would be completely ILLOGICAL, but then again, who the heck really knows anymore?!?
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Post by Hardy on Sept 18, 2008 20:36:12 GMT -8
I sure hope the SOBC hangs in there through the weekend... I'm travelling on route 1 tomorrow evening and again on Sunday. Best of luck! I have a funny feeling that she'll be ailing again on at least one of those days. Aim for an even hour sailing for best results! |
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 18, 2008 21:14:38 GMT -8
I would hope the BCFS is planning to get 40+ years of service out of the Spirits, as they have done with the V's. But they will not, if they do not give them the TLC that they deserve.
With the CC now available (almost) they have an opportunity over the next few years to do major power train upgrades on both Spirit vessels that could improve their operating efficiency, and prepare them for the next ten to fifteen years of intensive service on route 1. We also know that other things need work such as SoBC's platform decks.
In recent years it seems to me that upgrades have revolved more around gift shop improvements than working on the machinery.
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