Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 7, 2021 21:38:34 GMT -8
Over the years, I've read on a number of occasions on the Forum that the 'Capilano was originally slated for the Jervis Inlet run, but was switched to Bowen because of some navigational issues. I've never quite bought that, but when I really think about it, as I did tonight for some reason... it makes no sense.
Consider that her identical twin, the 'Cumberland, has been dealing with Active Pass for 29 years, without major mishaps. Consider also that in the time BC Ferries has been sailing between Earls Cove and Saltery Bay, the regular vessels on the route have ranged from the Quillayute, Jervis Queen, Powell River Queen, Queen of The Islands, Pender Queen, Queen of Tsawwassen, Queen of Chilliwack, and now Malaspina Sky, as well as the Bowen Queen and perhaps others filling in. That's a pretty diverse collection. Somehow the Queen of Capilano couldn't handle Jervis Inlet?
If the 'Capilano did start out at Saltery Bay and was then switched to Bowen, I suspect it was for reasons that had little to do with tides, currents, docking, or whatever else people have suggested.
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Post by Dane on Apr 8, 2021 19:10:33 GMT -8
Admittedly I'm stretching my memory a bit, but I believe the Capilano transfer from Jervis Inlet was driven in large part by the logistics of consistent repairs requiring use of presumably rather limit resources that would be far more accessible from Horseshoe Bay.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Apr 8, 2021 19:47:15 GMT -8
I thought the original plan was move Queen of Capilano back to Jervis Inlet route once MV Malaspina Sky was in service on Bowen Island route.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 8, 2021 20:46:41 GMT -8
I thought the original plan was move Queen of Capilano back to Jervis Inlet route once MV Malaspina Sky was in service on Bowen Island route. I very much doubt that was the case. You have to keep in mind the vehicle marshalling challenges at Snug Cove. There is one lane loading for whatever ferry is on the route, and waiting traffic is backed waaay up the road, again in one lane, with gaps for cove businesses and homes. Loading and unloading a 125 car ferry in a timely fashion just doesn't work. Bowen would be an ideal candidate for two island class vessels, but there is no possibility of a necessary layover berth at Horseshoe Bay.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Apr 8, 2021 21:32:13 GMT -8
I thought the original plan was move Queen of Capilano back to Jervis Inlet route once MV Malaspina Sky was in service on Bowen Island route. I very much doubt that was the case. You have to keep in mind the vehicle marshalling challenges at Snug Cove. There is one lane loading for whatever ferry is on the route, and waiting traffic is backed waaay up the road, again in one lane, with gaps for cove businesses and homes. Loading and unloading a 125 car ferry in a timely fashion just doesn't work. Bowen would be an ideal candidate for two island class vessels, but there is no possibility of a necessary layover berth at Horseshoe Bay. Found here. She would have also received galley decks to increase her vehicles capacity to 127.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 9, 2021 8:58:12 GMT -8
I very much doubt that was the case. You have to keep in mind the vehicle marshalling challenges at Snug Cove. There is one lane loading for whatever ferry is on the route, and waiting traffic is backed waaay up the road, again in one lane, with gaps for cove businesses and homes. Loading and unloading a 125 car ferry in a timely fashion just doesn't work. Bowen would be an ideal candidate for two island class vessels, but there is no possibility of a necessary layover berth at Horseshoe Bay. Found here. She would have also received galley decks to increase her vehicles capacity to 127. You're linking to the Coastal Ferry Services contract, which has all sorts of stuff in it that didn't end up happening. Despite what it calls for, the ' Capilano didn't get platform decks to give the same capacity as her sister, and there was no new 118 car ferry constructed for Bowen. Bowen likely didn't get a larger ferry because there has never been agreement on Bowen about increasing marshalling space for vehicle traffic.
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Post by paulvanb on Apr 9, 2021 22:01:19 GMT -8
Being a semi-frequent user of the Queen of Capilano, on most afternoons she can get quite full. Wednesday dangerous cargo sailings make it even worse, especially in summer. Not sure how much larger the Malaspina Sky is compared to the Capilano, but it would be a very tight squeeze. A ferry with less cars, unless you had two ships servicing the route at the same time with quicker service, the residents of Bowen Island would be pissed, putting that mildly. They get pissed when the Bowen Queen comes in to pinch hit during the Capilano's annual refit.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Apr 17, 2021 20:08:52 GMT -8
Queen of Capilano is in Vancouver Shipyard getting one of Right Angle Drive exchange.
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Post by coastal memories on May 13, 2021 0:04:02 GMT -8
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 19, 2021 22:59:22 GMT -8
Why didn’t BC Ferries put platform decks on Queen of Capilano before entering service?
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Post by paulvanb on Nov 20, 2021 9:26:22 GMT -8
Why didn’t BC Ferries put platform decks on Queen of Capilano before entering service? My guess is that they weren't necessary for the route at she serves, but is woefully inadequate at times now for it.
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Neil
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Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Nov 20, 2021 9:40:00 GMT -8
Why didn’t BC Ferries put platform decks on Queen of Capilano before entering service? My guess is that they weren't necessary for the route at she serves, but is woefully inadequate at times now for it. It also may have been a schedule issue, given the time it takes to raise and lower the deck with what was then a ten minute loading period. Even on the Jervis Inlet route, where they also tried her, it might have been tight. She represented a fifteen car increase in capacity for Bowen, from 70 to 85. As paulvanb suggests, that might have seemed sufficient for the time. Bowen can't really have a bigger ferry now. Any expansion in service would be best served with two smaller ferries, but there's nowhere to dock a second boat at either Snug Cove or Horseshoe Bay.
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Post by Dane on Nov 21, 2021 4:47:04 GMT -8
The Capilano was intended for Earls Cove when it entered service. My memory is failing me as to what it was replacing but, I don't think capacity would have been an issue.
Bowen Island getting the Capilano was a mistake of history, and as was already noted represented a significant increase in capacity at the time - before Bowen became a more prolific bedroom community of Vancouver.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 21, 2021 8:25:48 GMT -8
The Capilano was intended for Earls Cove when it entered service. My memory is failing me as to what it was replacing but, I don't think capacity would have been an issue. Queen of Capilano replaced the Powell River Queen on the Jervis Inlet route.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 21, 2021 9:22:16 GMT -8
The Capilano was intended for Earls Cove when it entered service. My memory is failing me as to what it was replacing but, I don't think capacity would have been an issue. Bowen Island getting the Capilano was a mistake of history, and as was already noted represented a significant increase in capacity at the time - before Bowen became a more prolific bedroom community of Vancouver. Dane, I'm not sure what you mean by your reference to "a mistake of history". My brother lived on Bowen when the ' Capilano was placed there, and the island was very much a bedroom community by that time ('92 or so.) The Howe Sound Queen's capacity was overtaxed, and the ' Capilano was definitely needed.
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Post by Dane on Nov 21, 2021 17:46:12 GMT -8
Emphasis on my word choice more prolific
At this time Bowen (early mid 90s) Snug Cove was on to get a Skeena. I'm not sure what actually ended that plan, whether it was the Cap to Bowen or the "cancellation" of additional Skeena class vessels.
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 6, 2022 18:38:34 GMT -8
Howe Sound beauty & the Queen of Capilano
11 February 2022
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Post by paulvanb on Mar 28, 2022 16:37:16 GMT -8
Howe Sound beauty & the Queen of Capilano
11 February 2022
Outstanding! She has been part of my real estate stock shots and video.
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Post by paulvanb on Mar 30, 2022 11:55:42 GMT -8
The car deck as we say good bye to Bowen Island.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Apr 6, 2022 12:21:41 GMT -8
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Apr 6, 2022 12:59:09 GMT -8
The main vessel on route 9 is based out Long Harbour on Salt Spring Island. Maybe the islands to small to maintain and crew the vessels or there is lack security on the island for the vessel.
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Post by articulated on Apr 6, 2022 15:45:49 GMT -8
The main vessel on route 9 is based out Long Harbour on Salt Spring Island. Maybe the islands to small to maintain and crew the vessels or there is lack security on the island for the vessel. This subject is probably getting off topic for the Queen of Capilano thread, however... The major terminals (i.e. Swartz Bay) are big enough to enable multiple routes to operate from one crew "base", thereby creating efficiencies (staffing levels can be adjusted between routes as needed). Salt Spring Island, having three routes (routes 4, 6, 9) and three vessels homeport on the island, would also has a larger volume of staff to justify basing vessels over there. Meanwhile, if you take the SGI routes and base them out of the smaller islands, now you have more difficulty finding crew to staff these vessels out of the more limited residential base; otherwise, you need to pay lodging costs for crews which you wouldn't otherwise need to do at a major terminal like Swartz Bay. You also run into much more operational difficulty - you need to ensure that vessels to return to their homeport halfway through the service day to replace its crew, and you also lose the operational flexibility in being able to switch schedules between multiple days based on demand, since the vessel needs to start from (and end at) the same point every day. Bringing this back to be relevant to Queen of Capilano... homeporting at Horseshoe Bay would allow BC Ferries to take advantage of the existing crew base out of Horseshoe Bay, and the much larger population in Metro Vancouver to draw crew from. There may not be enough qualified staff living on Bowen Island (or who would be willing to move/able to afford living there) to staff full crew complements on the Queen of Capilano, so BCF can take the smaller loss with operating more trips in the counter-peak direction to position the vessel in the early morning/late evening.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Apr 6, 2022 21:24:13 GMT -8
The main vessel on route 9 is based out Long Harbour on Salt Spring Island. Maybe the islands to small to maintain and crew the vessels or there is lack security on the island for the vessel. This subject is probably getting off topic for the Queen of Capilano thread, however... The major terminals (i.e. Swartz Bay) are big enough to enable multiple routes to operate from one crew "base", thereby creating efficiencies (staffing levels can be adjusted between routes as needed). Salt Spring Island, having three routes (routes 4, 6, 9) and three vessels homeport on the island, would also has a larger volume of staff to justify basing vessels over there. Meanwhile, if you take the SGI routes and base them out of the smaller islands, now you have more difficulty finding crew to staff these vessels out of the more limited residential base; otherwise, you need to pay lodging costs for crews which you wouldn't otherwise need to do at a major terminal like Swartz Bay. You also run into much more operational difficulty - you need to ensure that vessels to return to their homeport halfway through the service day to replace its crew, and you also lose the operational flexibility in being able to switch schedules between multiple days based on demand, since the vessel needs to start from (and end at) the same point every day. Bringing this back to be relevant to Queen of Capilano... homeporting at Horseshoe Bay would allow BC Ferries to take advantage of the existing crew base out of Horseshoe Bay, and the much larger population in Metro Vancouver to draw crew from. There may not be enough qualified staff living on Bowen Island (or who would be willing to move/able to afford living there) to staff full crew complements on the Queen of Capilano, so BCF can take the smaller loss with operating more trips in the counter-peak direction to position the vessel in the early morning/late evening. ...as an aside, from the start of route five and for many years after, the schedule showed the first departure of the day being from Saturna Island. I don't know if BC Ferries actually tried having crews based at Saturna, but the schedule showed a 6am departure from Lyall Harbour, and a 10:30 return at night, so if there were unprinted deadhead runs to and from Swartz Bay, that was a very long day. I can't imagine how they would have found accommodation for crew on such a lightly populated island. Bowen would be much easier, but their ferry has tied up at Horseshoe Bay for many years, due, as 'articulated' says, to the crewing pool based there.
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Post by WettCoast on Jul 14, 2022 21:18:03 GMT -8
Queen of Capilano departing Horseshoe Bay for Bowen Island with a beautiful Howe Sound vista for a backdrop.
24 June 2022
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Post by fairweatherfisherman on Jul 17, 2022 15:26:44 GMT -8
Am I the only one who thinks it's looking pretty rusty?
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