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Post by mybidness459 on Jan 16, 2017 14:56:05 GMT -8
Let me guess, Queen of Burnaby and Nanaimo is on his radar?
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Post by Starsteward on Jan 17, 2017 14:05:13 GMT -8
Let me guess, Queen of Burnaby and Nanaimo is on his radar? Mr. Goundar's expertise as a marine engineer will no doubt play a significant role in future vessel purchases. While he has had reasonable success with the two ex-BC Ferries vessels, I'm not so sure that he would want to burden his company with the purchase of 52, and 53 year-old vessels. The Queen of Burnaby's 'ailments' have been well documented on these forum pages. While Mr. Goundar may have succeeded in getting the "nothing over 20 year-vintage law" changed in Fiji, I doubt whether he would want to tie up his new dry dock with one vessel we know has numerous 'issues', UNLESS, he is able to negotiate a very sweet deal from BC Ferries. IF, Mr. Goundar was to purchase these two vessels, I would like to see, as a 'condition of sale', all dangerous materials, ie. asbestos, etc. be properly remediated, before the vessels leave Canada. The remediation costs would be paid by the purchaser. Any remediation projects would be subject to an inspection and report from a certified environmental engineer, subject to approval by Transport Canada. There must be a president set by Transport Canada to ensure that Canada is not off-loading environmentally unsafe products to foreign buyers. The time has come for Canada to clean up their act and represent a new global consciousness how we do business abroad.
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Post by mybidness459 on Jan 17, 2017 15:24:43 GMT -8
I agree with you 100 percent that Canada has to stop, Off loading our "Dirty" ships to other countries. I have thought about this for years now. I also think Sadly enough that Ferry Companies and other shipping companies should be held accountable for Clean up of ships that they sell off. For Example Who is responsible for the Queen of Sidney if she sinks and her owners can't pay the bill? I think BC Ferries should be legally bound by law to make sure their ships are disposed of in a safe, environmentally friendly way, Either scrap them, or have BC ferries pay the bill for the clean up of "their" ships.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Jan 17, 2017 21:43:17 GMT -8
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Post by mybidness459 on Jan 17, 2017 22:30:13 GMT -8
Gee Wiz! Can't this Guy start naming his vessels anything else than Lomaiviti Princess? LOL! What about FIJI Princess?
I love the color though.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Jan 17, 2017 23:17:05 GMT -8
I agree with you 100 percent that Canada has to stop, Off loading our "Dirty" ships to other countries. I have thought about this for years now. I also think Sadly enough that Ferry Companies and other shipping companies should be held accountable for Clean up of ships that they sell off. For Example Who is responsible for the Queen of Sidney if she sinks and her owners can't pay the bill? I think BC Ferries should be legally bound by law to make sure their ships are disposed of in a safe, environmentally friendly way, Either scrap them, or have BC ferries pay the bill for the clean up of "their" ships. I agree, to a large extent, with the sentiments you and Starsteward express, and I've said pretty much the same myself on this forum in the past. But if you look at it from the perspective of a third world, island nation, I suppose it might look somewhat different. Maybe people have been unable to get around with any dependability, and maybe farmers and businesses have been unable to get goods to market, causing the economy to atrophy. Someone like Goundar buys vessels which are more or less sound, structurally and mechanically, and he has some background in being able to maintain the ships. I can't say what the attitude of the other vendors he's dealt with is, but I imagine BC Ferries has been upfront about the level of asbestos contamination on the 'Chilliwack and 'Prince Rupert. Perhaps people in Fiji have made a conscious decision about the dangers and benefits inherent in these elderly vessels, all things considered.
When George Goundar started off with the Queen of Prince Rupert, I was really critical about BC ferries sending their asbestos laden rustbuckets to an impoverished nation that couldn't afford better. I still am. But it may be that nascent economies don't have the luxury to worry about things like arguably contained asbestos and tired steel, when so many issues seem more pressing. I'm just thankful that the 'Rupert is has not failed structurally in what would have seemed to be an ill advised 'retirement', sailing in the open Pacific.
I'm not sure that BC Ferries and Canada are really to blame for the risks that Fiji is taking, but I share the misgivings of those who do.
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Post by Starsteward on Jan 18, 2017 15:04:41 GMT -8
Very interesting posting, many thanks. The Lomaiviti Princess IV built in 1993 looks a bit the worse for wear (hull) but it would appear that Mr. Goundar negotiated a rather unique sale/operations agreement with the good folks of Cakaudrove. Particularly amusing is the opportunity for the people of Cakaudrove to sell their produce from the ship's canteen. With news of the expansion of the Goundar Shipping Fleet and news that Mr. Goundar is getting into the bus transportation business, we have seen a native Fijian go abroad for education and career experience then return to his native country and begin building a transportation infrastructure that will greatly improve the lives of the people it serves. Great example of a Native Son 'giving back'. Well done.
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Post by Starsteward on Jan 18, 2017 15:18:37 GMT -8
I agree with you 100 percent that Canada has to stop, Off loading our "Dirty" ships to other countries. I have thought about this for years now. I also think Sadly enough that Ferry Companies and other shipping companies should be held accountable for Clean up of ships that they sell off. For Example Who is responsible for the Queen of Sidney if she sinks and her owners can't pay the bill? I think BC Ferries should be legally bound by law to make sure their ships are disposed of in a safe, environmentally friendly way, Either scrap them, or have BC ferries pay the bill for the clean up of "their" ships. I agree, to a large extent, with the sentiments you and Starsteward express, and I've said pretty much the same myself on this forum in the past. But if you look at it from the perspective of a third world, island nation, I suppose it might look somewhat different. Maybe people have been unable to get around with any dependability, and maybe farmers and businesses have been unable to get goods to market, causing the economy to atrophy. Someone like Goundar buys vessels which are more or less sound, structurally and mechanically, and he has some background in being able to maintain the ships. I can't say what the attitude of the other vendors he's dealt with is, but I imagine BC Ferries has been upfront about the level of asbestos contamination on the 'Chilliwack and 'Prince Rupert. Perhaps people in Fiji have made a conscious decision about the dangers and benefits inherent in these elderly vessels, all things considered.
When George Goundar started off with the Queen of Prince Rupert, I was really critical about BC ferries sending their asbestos laden rustbuckets to an impoverished nation that couldn't afford better. I still am. But it may be that nascent economies don't have the luxury to worry about things like arguably contained asbestos and tired steel, when so many issues seem more pressing. I'm just thankful that the 'Rupert is has not failed structurally in what would have seemed to be an ill advised 'retirement', sailing in the open Pacific.
I'm not sure that BC Ferries and Canada are really to blame for the risks that Fiji is taking, but I share the misgivings of those who do.
A very well-stated posting 'Neil'. I believe the somewhat saving grace with Goundar Shipping buying used BC Ferries vessels is the fact that George Goundar was very well aware of the various 'problems' with the 'QPR' as he had been the Chief Engineer on her for some time. No doubt he had a pretty good idea of what ailed the 'Wack' as well. Without doing a boatload of research I truly hope that BC Ferries did NOT take a 'buyer-beware' stance when it came to selling off their 2 vessels. That said, I think it might be the prerogative of Transport Canada and the Federal Ministry of Trade to implement specific laws that compel Canadian companies selling used vessels abroad, to pass an inspection done by T.C. before sales such as these are concluded.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Jan 18, 2017 15:26:19 GMT -8
I agree with you 100 percent that Canada has to stop, Off loading our "Dirty" ships to other countries. I have thought about this for years now. I also think Sadly enough that Ferry Companies and other shipping companies should be held accountable for Clean up of ships that they sell off. For Example Who is responsible for the Queen of Sidney if she sinks and her owners can't pay the bill? I think BC Ferries should be legally bound by law to make sure their ships are disposed of in a safe, environmentally friendly way, Either scrap them, or have BC ferries pay the bill for the clean up of "their" ships. I agree, to a large extent, with the sentiments you and Starsteward express, and I've said pretty much the same myself on this forum in the past. But if you look at it from the perspective of a third world, island nation, I suppose it might look somewhat different. Maybe people have been unable to get around with any dependability, and maybe farmers and businesses have been unable to get goods to market, causing the economy to atrophy. Someone like Goundar buys vessels which are more or less sound, structurally and mechanically, and he has some background in being able to maintain the ships. I can't say what the attitude of the other vendors he's dealt with is, but I imagine BC Ferries has been upfront about the level of asbestos contamination on the 'Chilliwack and 'Prince Rupert. Perhaps people in Fiji have made a conscious decision about the dangers and benefits inherent in these elderly vessels, all things considered.
When George Goundar started off with the Queen of Prince Rupert, I was really critical about BC ferries sending their asbestos laden rustbuckets to an impoverished nation that couldn't afford better. I still am. But it may be that nascent economies don't have the luxury to worry about things like arguably contained asbestos and tired steel, when so many issues seem more pressing. I'm just thankful that the 'Rupert is has not failed structurally in what would have seemed to be an ill advised 'retirement', sailing in the open Pacific.
I'm not sure that BC Ferries and Canada are really to blame for the risks that Fiji is taking, but I share the misgivings of those who do.
This is an interesting point of discussion, one which has surfaced a few times over the last few months at my work. While I certainly don't agree with the downloading of hazardous, expensive to remediate materials to third world countries to deal with, I don't think limiting the sale of used/surplus ships to these countries is an effective way to deal with the problem. Asbestos is not a banned material in Canada, and it is legal to produce and export it. In fact, up until 2012, Canada was one of the biggest worldwide producers of asbestos, mostly exporting it to places such as India and Bangladesh. Importing asbestos containing materials is also legal. One of the problems with eliminating asbestos is that as far as a building material, nothing comes close to it for fire prevention and flame retardant properties. It can be argued that it is one of the primary reasons for the significant drop in structure fires over the last half-century. If it is encapsulated in other materials so that fibres are not present, it poses no health risk. That is, no risk until the material is dismantled or destroyed, exposing the fibres to the air. To me, it really comes down to a greater good equation. How many lives have been saved because ships like the QPR or 'Wack were available for a low enough price that it was economical to operate them in Fiji, thus replacing overloaded small craft on the open ocean? How much has the economic situation of Fiji improved because of the expanded marine trade opportunity? I really think that in the face of the many, many other sources of asbestos contamination that the third world faces, the few ships that are exported there from Canada are a drop in the bucket in comparison, and the benefits they provide to the local economies and marine safety outweigh the potential risks of asbestos contamination. Another note about asbestos: as much as 25 years can pass between exposure and the presentation of symptoms. Because of this, very little is actually known about what constitutes an acceptable exposure limit, which is why asbestos abatement is such a big deal in Canada. Our worker safety programs demand that there is absolutely no exposure to airborne asbestos fibres, because we have no idea how much constitutes a lethal dose.
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Post by mybidness459 on Oct 7, 2017 14:27:26 GMT -8
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Post by PNW_ferrynerd on Apr 7, 2018 18:22:40 GMT -8
At the request of a few individuals, the following are videos that were taken onboard the QPR during her final months serving on routes 10 and 11. These particular videos were taken during a four day trip that a few members did back in late October 2008. I am sure others will have more to add to this topic in the near future... A quick tour of the Engine Room...Her Mirrlees in action...Sailing in Millbank Sound...QPR's seasick horn...Photobucket will not work for me, why?
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Post by Mike on Apr 8, 2018 9:23:03 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 28, 2018 22:02:18 GMT -8
From my brother's ( mrdot ) camera 52 years ago ... Queen of Prince Rupert crew change day @ Kelsey Bay, some time in 1966. The bus has brought a fresh crew to take over, while the 'old' crew, who have just worked a two week rotation will take the bus south, down Vancouver Island. The man on the right is to be identified. I will ask David, & perhaps Starsteward might know? Note the fresh pavement. Note also that the original is a b&w negative.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Nov 28, 2018 23:17:24 GMT -8
Love that shot, Jim. The spiffy new QPR, the fellow whose uniform I have no clue about, but particularly, the bus. I had a toy version of one of those split level buses, painted for Greyhound, and I thought it was so cool. I was ten in 1966.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 29, 2018 11:46:41 GMT -8
... the fellow whose uniform I have no clue about, but particularly, the bus. The fellow in the uniform might be one of the bus drivers, and the bus service was (I think) provided by Vancouver Island Coach Lines. I have to get hold of my brother & pick his brain.
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Post by Starsteward on Nov 29, 2018 11:52:59 GMT -8
From my brother's ( mrdot ) camera 52 years ago ... Queen of Prince Rupert crew change day @ Kelsey Bay, some time in 1966. The bus has brought a fresh crew to take over, while the 'old' crew, who have just worked a two week rotation will take the bus south, down Vancouver Island. The man on the right is to be identified. I will ask David, & perhaps Starsteward might know? Note the fresh pavement. Note also that the original is a b&w negative. Great shot of the Queen of Prince Rupert Jim! I was still at H.S. Bay on the 'Nanny' and 'New Westminster' during the summer of 1966 but went up to Kelsey Bay on May 19, 1967, riding on those lovely buses. The chap in the photo I believe is Scotty Porteous, the Bosun of 'B' watch under the command of Captain John D. Callan. First Officer was Bernard Crook, Chief Engineer was Glen Beck, Chief Steward, John A. Post. The 'B' watch crew would have the dubious distinction of 'manning the boats' when the 'Rupert' ran afoul of Haddington Reef in August of 1967.
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 20, 2018 9:41:26 GMT -8
Victoria Machinery Depot celebrates delivery of the QPR - spring 1966
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 30, 2019 18:38:43 GMT -8
Queen of Prince Rupert, with its visor being raised, approaches the wharf @ Bella Bella on 4 January 1978. This was several years before the berth was built in nearby McLoughlin Bay, and also before the "Bella Bella" doors were installed on the QPR & Queen of the North. See also this shot taken a short time later ...
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Post by Starsteward on Mar 31, 2019 14:50:30 GMT -8
Great to see the blue-jacketed steward in the second photo. Those blue jackets were a huge upscale from the heavy starchy white straight-jackets that pre-empted the 'blues'. Great photos.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Dec 7, 2020 22:01:34 GMT -8
Looking at Jim's (WettCoast) banner entry for the QPR, I'm reminded that she had bow (front) windows on three passenger decks. I only rode her twice, and my memory is foggy. What was at the front of all those three decks?
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 7, 2020 22:58:30 GMT -8
Looking at Jim's (WettCoast) banner entry for the QPR, I'm reminded that she had bow (front) windows on three passenger decks. I only rode her twice, and my memory is foggy. What was at the front of all those three decks? The deck just above the car deck was a seating lounge that was divided circa early 70's so that the starboard side became a bar (no alcohol in WAC Bennett's day). The deck above that was the main restaurant with IMHO the best damn view on the BC Coast. (There was also a cafeteria at the aft end of the same deck that was not used for food service after the Queen of the North came along in 1980.) Above that were cabins for the captain & senior officers. The bridge was above that.
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Post by princessofvanfan on Dec 8, 2020 2:43:03 GMT -8
Looking at Jim's (WettCoast) banner entry for the QPR, I'm reminded that she had bow (front) windows on three passenger decks. I only rode her twice, and my memory is foggy. What was at the front of all those three decks? The deck just above the car deck was a seating lounge that was divided circa early 70's so that the starboard side became a bar (no alcohol in WAC Bennett's day). The deck above that was the main restaurant with IMHO the best damn view on the BC Coast. (There was also a cafeteria at the aft end of the same deck that was not used for food service after the Queen of the North came along in 1980.) Above that were cabins for the captain & senior officers. The bridge was above that. Why would they close the cafeteria? QPR was on the Skidegate - Prince Rupert route after 1980, which is a 9 hour trip.
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 8, 2020 17:27:32 GMT -8
Why would they close the cafeteria? QPR was on the Skidegate - Prince Rupert route after 1980, which is a 9 hour trip. The QPR was "queen of the Inside Passage" from 1966 until 1979, and during the busy summer periods they needed both the restaurant and the cafeteria in operation to keep the customers satisfied. But after 1980 the QotN took over as "queen of the Inside Passage", so demand for food service on the QPR dropped off. For a couple of years in the early 1980's the QPR did do some summer service on the Inside Passage in addition to its Haida Gwaii service, but it was secondary to the QotN, and it had to do the 'milk run' stops at Bella Bella & Ocean Falls. I am not certain of exactly when they stopped using the aft cafeteria, but I suspect it had something to do with major cost-cutting (austerity, fiscal restraint) imposed by the provincial government in 1982. The cafeteria may have had a reprieve in 2006 following the sinking of the QotN, as the QPR was put on a very busy schedule of trying to cover both routes and deal with summer demand.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 25, 2021 20:14:21 GMT -8
My recent visit to Haida Gwaii had me thinking about previous trips over there, and pulling out old pictures to refresh my memory. This shot of the QPR at Skidegate is one I have not scanned or shared before. The original is a Fujicolour negative.
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Post by Mike on Feb 1, 2022 20:28:07 GMT -8
A semi-recent eBay acquisition, step back in time to 1980, when the QPR spent the summer masquerading as the Victoria Princess. Seen here in Victoria's Inner Harbour on September 28, 1980. Photo © Wayne Hom. M/V Victoria Princess - Victoria Harbour by Michael, on Flickr
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