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Post by lmtengs on Nov 4, 2012 19:18:10 GMT -8
I've been curious about doing this for a little while. Since polling results are anonymous on the forum, why not do it. Let's have a mini-forumwide American Presidential Election, voting for Obama vs. Romney. I want to see how a mixture of Canadians and Americans will vote for this. For those who wish to share any of their views, go ahead, for those who don't wish to, then don't. I won't, and I'll not vote on this until I've seen a few votes go in, so that the first vote isn't mistaken for my own. Go ahead! Results will be shown after you vote, so that the current tally won't affect your choice. You will not be able to retract your vote. And for sillyminded people, this is not an official election, you still have to go to your polling station for your vote to count.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 19:51:37 GMT -8
I think there more than two.
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Post by Mike C on Nov 4, 2012 21:39:05 GMT -8
I think there more than two. Nope, there's a Republican nominee and a Democratic nominee, so take your pick.
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Post by Kahloke on Nov 5, 2012 5:34:50 GMT -8
I already cast my ballot as Washington is now completely vote-by-mail. It's a little disheartening realizing my vote (for the presidential race) really does not count, and that it's pretty much decided long before it gets to Washington. As Paul said above, Washington is not a swing state, and the electoral college almost always votes democrat.
In any case, I'm not happy with either presidential choice. Obama is very charismatic, but I haven't been particularly happy with his performance over the last four years. Romney is largely an unknown, but there's something about him in the campaign that I just don't like - can't quite put my finger on it. We need somebody that's going to be more centrist, and I fear Romney would not be it.
I'm more hopeful for Washington's Governor race. I think both Inslee and McKenna are good candidates. This one will be very close, and it will be interesting to see how it goes.
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Post by EGfleet on Nov 5, 2012 6:59:29 GMT -8
I think there more than two. Nope, there's a Republican nominee and a Democratic nominee, so take your pick. Not true, as Mr Keenleyside pointed out. There are a slew of third party candidates on the Washington State ballot this year that qualified to be there. Do they have a snowballs chance in Hades? NO! But here they are for the record: Libertarian PartyPresident: Gary Johnson Vice president: James P. Gray Constitution PartyPresident: Virgil Goode Vice president: James N. Clymer Green PartyPresident: Jill Stein Vice president: Cheri Honkala Socialism & Liberation PartyPresident: Peta Lindsay Vice president: Yari Osorio Socialist Workers PartyPresident: James Harris Vice president: Alyson Kennedy Justice PartyPresident: Ross C. (Rocky) Anderson Vice president: Luis J. Rodriguez
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 5, 2012 12:07:41 GMT -8
I already cast my ballot as Washington is now completely vote-by-mail. It's a little disheartening realizing my vote (for the presidential race) really does not count, and that it's pretty much decided long before it gets to Washington. As Paul said above, Washington is not a swing state, and the electoral college almost always votes democrat. In any case, I'm not happy with either presidential choice. Obama is very charismatic, but I haven't been particularly happy with his performance over the last four years. Romney is largely an unknown, but there's something about him in the campaign that I just don't like - can't quite put my finger on it. We need somebody that's going to be more centrist, and I fear Romney would not be it. I'm more hopeful for Washington's Governor race. I think both Inslee and McKenna are good candidates. This one will be very close, and it will be interesting to see how it goes. With respect to Obama's presidency and the negative spin he gets (mainly from news outlets and pundits on Fox News) are unwarranted and a whole host of the claims Fox News (and their pundits) have been met with factual evidence to the contrary. On the other hand, Romney's history of Massachusetts governor should disqualify him from public office, period.
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Post by Scott on Nov 5, 2012 18:49:18 GMT -8
Interesting! I think Obama would win with no problem in Canada, and others have pointed out that Washington and the entire west coast would lean towards a Democratic or more liberal government. But if you go up to Alaska they have a strong Republican tradition. Is it a totally different culture up there?
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 5, 2012 19:16:07 GMT -8
In my experience discussing the whole "liberal vs. conservative" government ideology rests mostly on the belief that in more rural settings, a more conservative atmosphere holds prevalent. People in rural communities or isolated areas most often are anti-government or believe government is more detrimental in a "getting in the way" kind of attitude.
Whereas, liberals, think the opposite in most instances. It stands to wit that Alaska is a fairly isolated state, both in terms of population and geographically speaking.
Keep in mind, factually speaking the United States of America has always performed better economically and fiscally under liberal leadership. Under fiscally, and governmentally conservative leadership, the economy often suffers - most often at the detriment to the working class.
That, and historically speaking, this country saw its rise to greatness under liberal policies set in place throughout the late 1940s through the 1970s. The winning of the race to land a man on the moon and further moon and space exploration, construction of our interstate highways, the modernization of our public schools (which at the time were the envy of the world until the middle of the 1980s), and a host of other factors were due to liberal policies set in place. High taxes on the wealthy (during the 50s, taxes were at 91%, and our economy saw its greatest growth, either before or since), a strong middle class, wealth equality and a safety net to keep the lower class from being homeless or well below poverty is all due to a liberal mindset.
It also stands to wit that no conservative president has EVER managed to balance the budget nor begin national debt reparations. None. That is irrefutable, cold hard fact. The only Republican president in the last 70 years to balance the budget and nearly break even with the national debt was President Eisenhower. He was an unabashed liberal. He did not believe lower taxes was the answer. Infact, he used high taxes on the wealthy to fund the construction of the interstate highway system and perform vast upgrades on our nation's infrastructure.
When conservative values took over in 1981 at the dawn of the Reagan era, the national debt exploded. So much so that Reagan left office with a steep recession and a debt three trillion dollars higher in 1989 than it was in 1981. And it was the 1980s that the rich began to get richer, and the poorer, well... We all know the answer to that one. This was after Reagan cut taxes on the wealthy from 70% to 50%, and then as low as 38% by the end of his tenure as POTUS. It also stands to merit that the long-held Republican trickle-down ideology of "lower taxes = jobs growth and prosperity" has been tried no fewer than four times in this country's history. In the middle of the 1880s the Republican party pushed what was then known as "the Horse-and-Sparrow" theory, with the saying going "if you feed enough oats to a horse, enough will pass through to the sparrows." It quickly brought economic panic and collapse, and it was the precursor to what became Reaganomics. When it was implimented to its fullness in the 1890s, it resulted in the Great Panic of 1896.
The same mechanics were also responsible for the cause of the Great Depression, which was brought upon the country by intense deregulation of the financial markets and a host of steep tax cuts on the wealthy. In 1918 taxes were at 77%, by 1928 they had been reduced to lower than 30%. In 1929 the stock market crashed, and the Great Depression set in.
It was tried again, when Reagan was in office. When Reagan was inaugurated in 1981 corporate tax rates were at 70%. By 1982 they were at 50%, and by 1987 they were at 38%. In 1987, amidst the first waves of deregulatory legislation on the financial and lending markets (first with pieces of Glass-Steagall being wiped clean), the stock market crashed.
The last time it was tried, was when George W. Bush was in office. Taxes were cut to below 30%, and by 2007 the stock market and financial sector was once again in steep turmoil.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2012 21:03:42 GMT -8
What do you guys mean when you say that your vote doesn't really count? Paul mentioned that the electoral college decides the end result. Would anyone care to elaborate a little? Not looking for a 2 page answer, but if someone is able to explain the process of the electoral college in a simpleish way, i'd appreciate it! Personaly, I like Obama. He's a much better speaker to start with, and when he talks, he talk with the crowd and not at the crowd. I find Romney just another BSer who'll say anything to get your vote (like Bush). Obama has handled a crippled economy good (not great, but at least better than a Romney or Bush would), and he certainly can't be blamed for a problem that was there when he came into office.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 5, 2012 21:08:39 GMT -8
I certainly agree with Mr Rosenow and his analysis of the right wing's fiscal management abilities. I would also add that it's very difficult to get a handle on the Obama presidency's accomplishments, given that he has faced the most belligerently obstructionist Congress in memory, even though the Democrats have a slim Senate majority. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Boehner, Cantor, McConnell and co. have placed their hatred for the Obama administration ahead of the national good. I almost lost my dinner today hearing Romney repeat, once again, that Obama had failed to reach out and work with opponents to get things done. Sometimes it seems that the American system of checks and balances between the three branches of government, in particular the ability of a Senate minority to filibuster and obstruct, can lead to paralysis. And for that, the Republicans blame Obama. It's fascinating when you compare the closeness of the race among Americans to the sentiments around the world regarding Obama and Romney. Polls show that if Canadians could vote, Obama would win by about four to one, even more in this BBC poll. Other countries have similar or more pronounced margins. Except Pakistan. Score one 'red' country for the Mittster. globescan.com/images/images/pressreleases/bbc2012_obama/2531_bbc_q8_tracking_v2.gifTomorrow night will be fascinating. Not having much TV here on Hornby, I'll be glued to my computer.
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Post by Mike C on Nov 5, 2012 21:12:09 GMT -8
Counting down the hours until I get my 1-year break from election ads.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 5, 2012 21:16:10 GMT -8
What do you guys mean when you say that your vote doesn't really count? Paul mentioned that the electoral college decides the end result. Would anyone care to elaborate a little? Not looking for a 2 page answer, but if someone is able to explain the process of the electoral college in a simpleish way, i'd appreciate it! Personaly, I like Obama. He's a much better speaker to start with, and when he talks, he talk with the crowd and not at the crowd. I find Romney just another BSer who'll say anything to get your vote (like Bush). Obama has handled a crippled economy good (not great, but at least better than a Romney or Bush would), and he certainly can't be blamed for a problem that was there when he came into office. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)That would be the best way, as it's hard to break it down into a smaller block of text without losing some key points.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 5, 2012 21:16:52 GMT -8
Counting down the hours until I get my 1-year break from election ads. One year? The BC ads re next May have already started.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 5, 2012 21:45:05 GMT -8
As a Canadian it is not my place to tell citizens of the USA how they should vote. However, I would be disappointed if they do choose to dump Obama after just four years.
As for the US Electoral College system, yes, its not as democratic as it ought to be. On the other hand, it is arguably still better than the British parliamentary system that we have north of the 49th that allows majority governments to be elected with less than 40% of the popular vote as is currently the case in Canada (39.6% of the popular vote yields 55% of the seats in the House of Commons, where the power rests).
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Post by Mike C on Nov 5, 2012 22:02:22 GMT -8
Don't know why Mr. Mileage Photo is counting down hours until he as he puts it gets his 1 year break from political ads. Unless he's watching way too much TV from Seattle. I do admit I am a television junkie and the fiber-optik cable package we have allows me to watch a lot of American content, so I do. And of course it is cluttered with ads from various states (whichever state the channel is broadcasting from), and it is super annoying. WCK: The ads for BC elections will be just as ruthless and just as irritating, however it will not be the constant bombardment on the same level, as the channels hosting those ads will be purely in BC, and I do not watch really any BC content unless it is news (we get CBC Nova Scotia for example, and I always choose that over CBC Vancouver, as their primetime shows come way earlier). Not sure why they are even wasting their money advertising, as I think we all know how this election is going to end.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2012 17:17:46 GMT -8
That is if unlike me, you actually watch the things. I honestly haven't seen any of the ads as I don't watch TV anymore. Me neither! I realize that the BC Gov't ads are not re the liberal party, but it's the same old BC Liberal trick to spend billions of dollars here and there (such as highway upgrades everywhere but of course no cash for BCF), then announce the real debt after they've won the election. I recall this spring the theme was "responsible fiscal management" and "belt tightening". I see that has changed, again... The other reason could be "dumping it on the NDP", which isn't good either with their surperb fiscal management skills. In any case, we'll hear about the latest 2.2 billion dollar debt in Aug '13 like we did in Aug '09.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2012 20:22:44 GMT -8
Obama won the election. He is now the president of USA again.
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Post by Mike on Nov 6, 2012 20:24:29 GMT -8
Obama won the election. He is now the president of USA again. He is projected to win. All the votes aren't in yet.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 6, 2012 20:25:31 GMT -8
Obama has been declared the winner! Sanity prevails...
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 6, 2012 22:16:31 GMT -8
I don't think I've ever seen a less impassioned post-election moment than Romney's concession speech, and the audience reaction to it. If he couldn't excite more passion amongst his disciples, is it any wonder he didn't win over the nation?
Still, it was very close. 'The audicity of hope' slogan nonsense needs to be replaced by concrete progress. It amazes me that election after election, the terrible poverty and decay that haunts big American cities never becomes an issue in elections. Of course, Canadians do almost a good a job of ignoring a similar, though lesser injustice, here.
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Post by Kahloke on Nov 7, 2012 7:34:46 GMT -8
Yes, the big news is that Obama won. I certainly am not surprised by his victory. On the local front, here is how things stand on key races and measures: 1. Washington State Governor: Jay Inslee (D) is holding a narrow lead over Rob McKenna (R) 2. US Senate: Maria Cantwell (D) holds her seat as Washington's senator 3. Referendum 74 - Same Sex Marriage: passing 4. Initiative 502 - legalizing Marijuana: passed 5. Initiative 1240 - Charter Schools: passing Here's a link to the Washington State election results: seattletimes.com/flatpages/politics/2012-washington-election-results.html
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 7, 2012 9:57:59 GMT -8
I am not too happy about charter schools passing.
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