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Post by oceaneer77 on Dec 14, 2012 13:04:21 GMT -8
So i am sure that this is going to get me allot of trouble but the form seems to have degenerated into a large photo essay.
Where is Cascade, I miss him.
The good discussions have all gone and i frequent the forum less and less.
Can it come back?
Ok now you can all call me names.. go ahead!
Oceaneer
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Dec 14, 2012 13:10:52 GMT -8
Trouble? Call you names? No, not at all...
Cascade deleted some of his posts prior to him deleting his account many years ago. Unfortunately, we are unable to restore the posts he deleted.
You can try searching the forum for "Cascade" in the Google search bar at the bottom of the page for posts that still exist from his account.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 14, 2012 13:23:16 GMT -8
There is plenty of discussion going on, at the Washington State pages of our forum. Lots of interesting things happening there.
Speaking for myself, whenever I post photos or videos, I always try to include enough words to explain my experience, either the circumstance of getting the photo, or what I found interesting about it. For me, that's an important part of sharing my experiences and views with the rest of the forum.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 14, 2012 14:07:19 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Dec 14, 2012 20:31:37 GMT -8
I completely concur with oceaneer. This forum long ago lost its balance. To bring up the current discussion on the American side simply points out an exception to the rule, and even there, while I'm happy to see chief and rusty weighing in again, I'm just waiting for the more fan oriented members to start complaining about negativity.
The day is long gone where a journalist or politician might look in here for lively discussions of maritime affairs. But perhaps there's no point in complaining. Every internet forum becomes what its members want it to become, or else it dies. People here are mostly interested in photography, and that's their right. Those of us who have perhaps seen all the photos of the Queen of Coquitlam that we need to see, don't really have the right to dictate to others that they shouldn't post their latest shots, or that they should argue about ferry matters instead.
And it's not just this forum. Does Chris Montgomery's maritime blog even exist any more? Aside from flare ups of controversy, there doesn't seem to be an ongoing need for a true forum about maritime affairs here. I think that's really unfortunate, but it does seem to be the case. Odd, for a coastal province.
I would have hoped for a slightly different direction for this forum nine years into its existence, but at least, we do indeed have some great photography on display.
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Post by oceaneer77 on Dec 15, 2012 1:31:00 GMT -8
Thanks Neil.. I almost wish that the photography was a side topic or other sub board. The discussion about a ship is different that pictures of it. For me the pic are great but they are not discussion. And really there are so so so many of the same photos posted that I feel its taking away from the site.
As for the US side, possibly im just Canadian centric but i did not join the board for the US discussions.
And with all the new events about to happen on our side its odd that the discussion has stopped. We have a probable melt down of the ferry system coming. The current fleet needing allot of replacement ships, some fantastic new technology coming soon (LNG and batteries). (for the old forum members i have to get a "I told you so" on the LNG in) And a government that seems to have a 4 memory. So this should be a great time for the BC side of the forum. But when i go and look for information, im positively bogged down by photos. So moderators would you consider separating out the photos and the discussion? And Posters, if you have a pic of the sobc sitting in the dock that is almost exactly the same as one that has been posted a week before (possibly with different seagull placement) do you think its really really needed? Ok rant over Thanks Oceaneer
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 15, 2012 3:00:50 GMT -8
So moderators would you consider separating out the photos and the discussion? Short answer: No. - In terms of ship-specific items, the two are usually intertwinned. ie. a photo will result in discussion on an issue, or vice-versa. But for wider-ranging issues (such as LNG), we still have separate topic threads. Quite a few of them are ones that I've set up, where it made more sense to isolate a specific topic. I've just looked at your last-25-posts, and those are the kinds of topics that you've done most of your 2012 replies to. So the topics are there, and you've been finding them. So it seems to be working ok for you here. Again just speaking for myself now, I try to present my photos with comments, with the intention of people being able to learn something new, see a different angle of something, or at least know what I was experiencing when I was making the photographs. ie. letting people understand my experience. I still believe that ship-specific threads for "photos & discussion" are the best way to go, for the long term, in terms of archiving for our long term record of discussion and views on each ship. And a quick perusal of the "General discussion" topics and the "BCF News" topics will show the various wider-ranging topics that we've presented here. We've got lots of those, but the views and participation is usually a bit lower.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 15, 2012 13:09:27 GMT -8
Here's an example of a thread where I believe our forum was on the leading edge for anticipating the report, showing the report, and then analyzing the report and it's issues. ferriesbc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bcferriesnews&action=display&thread=7649&page=1Under the current setup of BCFS, this "Performance term #3" submission in late 2010 was perhaps the final time we'll be able to anticipate and analyze these matters. Now that change is in the air for BCFS structure, and back to a world of government intervention, we don't have the scheduled anticipation of upcoming announcements anymore. Or maybe just not as much. I think this thread was one of our forum's finer moments, in that we knew this item was coming, and on the day it was released we offered immediate comments and feedback. - October 29, 2010 came and we were ready to respond right away to the term-3 report. And we did so, on this forum. And for the subsequent government intervention into BCFS and term #3, we've also been immediate and detailed in our responses to newly released information and reports.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Dec 16, 2012 17:22:00 GMT -8
So i am sure that this is going to get me allot of trouble but the form seems to have degenerated into a large photo essay. Where is Cascade, I miss him. The good discussions have all gone and i frequent the forum less and less. Can it come back? Ok now you can all call me names.. go ahead! Oceaneer You...you... Feadship lover... you. How was that?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 26, 2013 8:38:41 GMT -8
What happened to the person who started this thread, and hasn't been much heard from since?
He prompted some naval gazing among some of us, but hasn't participated or commented much since.
So why did we spend time discussing an issue that the initiator wasn't interested in following up on ?
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 12, 2013 21:59:27 GMT -8
So i am sure that this is going to get me allot of trouble but the form seems to have degenerated into a large photo essay. Where is Cascade, I miss him. The good discussions have all gone and i frequent the forum less and less. Can it come back? Ok now you can all call me names.. go ahead! Oceaneer Here it is three months later and I continue to deliberate on what 'oceaneer77' said. On a day like today, I come away thinking that he was 'right on'. Two noteworthy events today, one being the move of WSF's retired vessel Rhododendron to an after-life with a shell-fish processing business here on the north side of the 49th. While some see this as a very negative thing I would say that its a whole lot preferable to the long journey south to the ship breakers in Ensenada, Mexico. The other noteworthy event, at least in my opinion, is the release in Canada of the Transportation Safety Board's final report on the collision shortly before Christmas 2011 between the Coastal Inspiration and the Duke Point Terminal. Some rather troubling findings in that report... I have no doubt whatsoever that this forum is very much tilted to the 'ferry-fan-photo-forum' side when I see the huge volume of posts and photos on the one event, and barely anything on the other. Even Neil & Mr. Horn are over on that side of the boat. It would be nice to bring back a bit of balance.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 12, 2013 22:06:17 GMT -8
I have no doubt whatsoever that this forum is very much tilted to the 'ferry-fan-photo-forum' side when I see the huge volume of posts and photos on the one event, and barely anything on the other. Even Neil & Mr. Horn are over on that side of the boat. It would be nice to bring back a bit of balance. Speaking for myself, I barely noticed the hard-landing story today, because I had a hectic day of out-of-town work, and after work I then had a quick drive up to Fanny Bay & back, to capture arrival-day opportunity with my camera. Sometime in the next week, I will hopefully have time to read that report, which was just released today. - I will likely have some comments on it, at that time, but as of right now, I haven't had time to even click on that report's link. But thanks for posting it, because I'll eventually get there when my schedule allows, just like I get to the quarterly reporting from BCFS and the performance term #3 process and the public consultation process and the drop-trailer court case and the..... But for now, sleep.
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 12, 2013 22:09:35 GMT -8
Yes, its that time of the year when accountants have most of their time 'spoken for'.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 12, 2013 22:27:02 GMT -8
Here it is three months later and I continue to deliberate on what 'oceaneer77' said. On a day like today, I come away thinking that he was 'right on'. Two noteworthy events today, one being the move of WSF's retired vessel Rhododendron to an after-life with a shell-fish processing business here on the north side of the 49th. While some see this as a very negative thing I would say that its a whole lot preferable to the long journey south to the ship breakers in Ensenada, Mexico. The other noteworthy event, at least in my opinion, is the release in Canada of the Transportation Safety Board's final report on the collision shortly before Christmas 2011 between the Coastal Inspiration and the Duke Point Terminal. Some rather troubling findings in that report... I have no doubt whatsoever that this forum is very much tilted to the 'ferry-fan-photo-forum' side when I see the huge volume of posts and photos on the one event, and barely anything on the other. Even Neil & Mr. Horn are over on that side of the boat. It would be nice to bring back a bit of balance. Jim, I am with you here - I think in any ideal common-interest community scenario, we would all like to have the perfect balance of doing-this-as-a-hobby, and an interesting dialogue of discussion. I have always been a firm believer that every member has something valuable to bring to the table. That being said, this is reality, and different people have different things they want to get out of being here. I think that at the end of the day, this is just a common interest that everyone wants to take part in, and to over-analyze this will be a never ending endeavour, in my opinion. Here's the key difference between the MV Rhododendron movement and the TSB report: -The Rhododendron move is something that was anticipated, and emotional for several members on this forum. This is a ferry that meant a lot of things to a lot of people, similar to any of our ferries that have been retired in the past five years. The move was a historic moment, and the huge volume of posts is something that will wind down within the next few days. -The TSB report on the Coastal Inspiration was a report that we will pick apart over the next several months, as we always do. This was not a priority of our community today, and I think rightfully so. The report isn't going anywhere, unlike the Rhody over the past 24 hours. So although the eternal quest for 'balance' is something we are all searching for, I don't think we should be taking something that we all enjoy and throw it under the microscope.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Mar 13, 2013 11:23:13 GMT -8
I agreed with oceaneer's remarks at the time, and WCK is accurate in his reiteration of those remarks. I disagree with the second part of MP's post; I don't think the Rhododendron's move pushed the TC report off our front page, and there is nothing wrong with putting our focus "under the microscope".
I haven't contributed much to conversation in recent times. Part of that is laziness, part of it is the occasional feeling that I've said everything I want to say about ferries, and part of it is the realization that not many here are interested in the issues aspect of marine transportation. The American side of the forum has been more active in that regard as of late.
Jim's comments carry extra validity, because he's also contributed heavily to the photographic side of things here. More than a few of the rest of us need to make more of an effort to keep this forum vibrant, in the form of thoughtful words.
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Mar 13, 2013 12:23:05 GMT -8
I agree with Mike and Mike here. While the DKP hard landing was put BCFs in boiling water, the report can be read at anytime now. The Rhody's move to Canada? Only once.
While this forum started as the Ferries of BC forum, it is now the West Coast Ferries forum, with a major part of members fro BC. The BC section got really active back in 2007-2009 when the last Vs were retired and the Coastals arrived. WSF was and is still very active because of the following -KDT/Olympic building -Rhody retirement/move to BC -More and more interest from British Columbians here. I personally can see the BCF section becoming way more active when the replacement for the Bs and the NIP come online and the WSF section calming down (in general) when the 2first Olympics are up and the E-State/Hiyu are retired.
The photography topic has already been covered, so no need to overthink it. For the massive posts in the Rhody thread? I will, sometime in the next week, like SCommuter proposed, combine all of the posts and screenshots from all of those who participated in the tracking and ask the moderators to archive/delete the massive amount of posts once I'm done.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Mar 13, 2013 13:37:53 GMT -8
I agree with Mike and Mike here. While the DKP hard landing was put BCFs in boiling water, the report can be read at anytime now. The Rhody's move to Canada? Only once. Unless you're a ferry fan or involved in the scallop industry, the Rhododendron's move to Canada had no importance and was not a news item. The TC report, on the other hand, speaks to how BC Ferries trains their crew and chooses their propulsion systems, which affects millions of travellers. It most definitely is news, and as such, deserves timely discussion. This should not be just a fan forum. That being said, (the most over used phrase going, I'm afraid) I followed the Rhody's move, like everyone else... I'm just echoing WCK's sentiment that a little more balance is required.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Mar 14, 2013 17:35:01 GMT -8
So i am sure that this is going to get me allot of trouble but the form seems to have degenerated into a large photo essay. Where is Cascade, I miss him. The good discussions have all gone and i frequent the forum less and less. Can it come back? Ok now you can all call me names.. go ahead! Oceaneer Here it is three months later and I continue to deliberate on what 'oceaneer77' said. On a day like today, I come away thinking that he was 'right on'. Two noteworthy events today, one being the move of WSF's retired vessel Rhododendron to an after-life with a shell-fish processing business here on the north side of the 49th. While some see this as a very negative thing I would say that its a whole lot preferable to the long journey south to the ship breakers in Ensenada, Mexico. The other noteworthy event, at least in my opinion, is the release in Canada of the Transportation Safety Board's final report on the collision shortly before Christmas 2011 between the Coastal Inspiration and the Duke Point Terminal. Some rather troubling findings in that report... I have no doubt whatsoever that this forum is very much tilted to the 'ferry-fan-photo-forum' side when I see the huge volume of posts and photos on the one event, and barely anything on the other. Even Neil & Mr. Horn are over on that side of the boat. It would be nice to bring back a bit of balance. I think the forum will always be somewhat cyclical as some have already mentioned. There are no new builds, massive new initiatives, or issues currently that really haven't been debated already in BC in and out. We have even lost Mr. Hahn who seemed to attract extreme opinions. Washington state has a bunch of new ferries coming on line and launching. Even though there are fewer Washington State members likely, these sorts of times all generate excitement, controversy, different opinions and people love to give their opinion. If BC Ferries launches the next stage of development with some major builds I am pretty confident there will be an increase in BC activity. Similar will like be the potential for LPG in the fleet. Think back to ISky and that is what I am talking about. Love it, hate it, horrible, big improvement, blame union for lateness, blame management etc. etc. Wait to see what the next order from FSG generates . I also think a dose of realism is necessary in that the mix of individuals in the forum will ever take it to a professional discussion of issues. More professional seafarers joining the forum from different parts of the industry would add a lot to discussions. A Seaspan Tug Captain, someone from a small manufacturer, more BC Ferries employees or ferry employees from around the world, and maybe even some marine engineers would be great. Those would all add dimension to the forum that is missing. But really, with a regional focus over two and an occasional third (AMH) ferry systems and with forum members basically located in the PNW and Lower Mainland/Island, or those from afar that have a history and interest rooted in the same the region, what do you expect regarding mass appeal for getting a larger professional input. For example I haven't mentioned the venerable Toronto Island Ferries might get wraps to generate advertising income because who in BC really cares in order to generate money for replacements. We occasionally stray afield when a forum member travels, and had some good information coming from out east when forum members were in training there. Now as forum members join the Coast Guard, more members work for BCF and possibly WSF, we will get posts with the perspective of actual sea experience. It is what it is.
If an individual wants a different direction then perhaps they should try to add expertise and/or discussion, or even teaching in certain areas to try and generate interest.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 17, 2013 7:35:10 GMT -8
I think that we are seeing one of the best aspects of WCFF in action today.
We have a regular but relatively-rare event (a northern ferry arriving at Deas), an event that has rarely been photographed and observed by our members.
We have a group of forum voyagers who anticipated this opportunity and are in-place to capture this event for all of us to enjoy on this forum.
The result is a fun experience for those who observed this in-person and an enjoyable experience for the rest of us who will be able to enjoy these photos in the months and years to come. A good opportunity for us to see a seldom seen event in BC Ferries annual calendar.
And that's why I think this forum website, and the people that make up this forum, are great.
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