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Post by Ferryman on Nov 5, 2021 8:55:24 GMT -8
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Post by Ferryman on Nov 10, 2021 8:08:54 GMT -8
Salish Heron is now out for sea trials today on the Baltic Sea
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Aug 27, 2022 22:15:05 GMT -8
Is BC Ferries going to retrofit Salish Orca, Salish Eagle and Salish Raven with doors that Salish Heron has to out decks?
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 28, 2022 6:57:32 GMT -8
Is BC Ferries going to retrofit Salish Orca, Salish Eagle and Salish Raven with doors that Salish Heron has to out decks? Why not go all the way and retrofit all of the Salish class boats with normal doors that can be activated by a switch and also opened manually? There are a lot of doors in public places that operate this way. Yes, Salish Heron's doors are a little quicker than the other 3, but it's still annoying.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Aug 28, 2022 13:54:17 GMT -8
Is BC Ferries going to retrofit Salish Orca, Salish Eagle and Salish Raven with doors that Salish Heron has to out decks? Why not go all the way and retrofit all of the Salish class boats with normal doors that can be activated by a switch and also opened manually? There are a lot of doors in public places that operate this way. Yes, Salish Heron's doors are a little quicker than the other 3, but it's still annoying. It might due Transport Canada requiring water tight doors. I actually don’t mind the ones on Salish Heron due the doors being more reliable, hopefully the other Salish Class vessels will get similar systems in place for doors as on Salish Heron.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Aug 28, 2022 20:02:16 GMT -8
Why not go all the way and retrofit all of the Salish class boats with normal doors that can be activated by a switch and also opened manually? There are a lot of doors in public places that operate this way. Yes, Salish Heron's doors are a little quicker than the other 3, but it's still annoying. It might due Transport Canada requiring water tight doors. I actually don’t mind the ones on Salish Heron due the doors being more reliable, hopefully the other Salish Class vessels will get similar systems in place for doors as on Salish Heron.Frankly, I'll put up with those really annoying doors if BC Ferries can find the staff to actually operate those Salish class boats on their routes. Priorities.
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Post by yak on Sept 14, 2022 18:24:08 GMT -8
Why not go all the way and retrofit all of the Salish class boats with normal doors that can be activated by a switch and also opened manually? There are a lot of doors in public places that operate this way. Yes, Salish Heron's doors are a little quicker than the other 3, but it's still annoying. It might due Transport Canada requiring water tight doors. I actually don’t mind the ones on Salish Heron due the doors being more reliable, hopefully the other Salish Class vessels will get similar systems in place for doors as on Salish Heron.Negative (regarding water tight doors) but I haven't been on the Heron. What have they done differently on that ship?
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Post by Kahloke on Sept 15, 2022 7:20:01 GMT -8
Negative (regarding water tight doors) but I haven't been on the Heron. What have they done differently on that ship? From my observations when I was aboard Salish Heron in July, the doors to the outside decks operate basically the same way as the ones on her sister ships, but the doors on Heron appear to open a bit faster. Other than that, I think they are the same.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 5, 2022 11:25:34 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 5, 2022 16:54:16 GMT -8
Read the story you linked to, and you'll have your answer.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 5, 2022 17:58:55 GMT -8
Read the story you linked to, and you'll have your answer. If they are upgrading the older three sisters that will increase all there weights which will cause four Salish Class to have weight issues.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 5, 2022 19:55:23 GMT -8
Read the story you linked to, and you'll have your answer. If they are upgrading the older three sisters that will increase all there weights which will cause four Salish Class to have weight issues. I don't know why you're making this comment. Given that BC Ferries has acknowledged the weight capacity issue with the Salish Heron, I think it follows that they might not want to make the same mistake with her three sisters. On vessels this size, there are probably ways to upgrade things without increasing overall tonnage. It also depends on what route a vessel is on. I've always noticed how few heavy trucks are on route nine out of Tsawwassen, but I guess route five has more commercial traffic. This is also an interesting sidebar on the commitment to standardize vessels. I get it that you don't want to have all sorts of quirky boats that can't have crews easily transferred, but the fact remains, different routes have specific needs, and even a newer 'class' might quickly develop different operating characteristics, as the Salish class seems to have.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 5, 2022 23:51:27 GMT -8
If they are upgrading the older three sisters that will increase all there weights which will cause four Salish Class to have weight issues. I don't know why you're making this comment. Given that BC Ferries has acknowledged the weight capacity issue with the Salish Heron, I think it follows that they might not want to make the same mistake with her three sisters. On vessels this size, there are probably ways to upgrade things without increasing overall tonnage. It also depends on what route a vessel is on. I've always noticed how few heavy trucks are on route nine out of Tsawwassen, but I guess route five has more commercial traffic. This is also an interesting sidebar on the commitment to standardize vessels. I get it that you don't want to have all sorts of quirky boats that can't have crews easily transferred, but the fact remains, different routes have specific needs, and even a newer 'class' might quickly develop different operating characteristics, as the Salish class seems to have. The Island Aurora and Island Discovery have undergone modifications done to Island Class 3-6. The Salish Raven was sitting at Deas Island for couple probably undergoing the upgrades done to the hull of the Salish Heron. I don’t see BC Ferries not giving Salish Eagle and Salish Orca these modifications too to keep these vessels all the same. Maybe those two vessels will undergo the upgrade help increase their weight limit, maybe BC Ferries already found a solution with Salish Raven. If a solution was found for Salish Raven modifications will probably be done to Salish Heron during her warranty work which would be good time to address the issue and the Salish Eagle and Salish Orca during the refit periods.
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Post by explorer on Nov 7, 2022 16:29:31 GMT -8
Can someone explain the weight limitation is about?
Is it purely a structural limitation on the main deck so the Heavy Commercial Vehicles don't end up joining the vehicles on the lower deck?
Some have suggested there has been talk of swapping out the Salish Heron with Skeena Queen on Route 4 because the Commercial Loads to Fulford Hrb are a lot lighter. All the aggregate (sand & gravel) and dangerous goods coming to Salt Spring Island via Route 6 Crofton - Vesuvius Bay.
That can't be true? However is there a suitable swap out there for the Salish Heron that would a better fit?
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2022 20:42:03 GMT -8
Can someone explain the weight limitation is about? Is it purely a structural limitation on the main deck so the Heavy Commercial Vehicles don't end up joining the vehicles on the lower deck? Some have suggested there has been talk of swapping out the Salish Heron with Skeena Queen on Route 4 because the Commercial Loads to Fulford Hrb are a lot lighter. All the aggregate (sand & gravel) and dangerous goods coming to Salt Spring Island via Route 6 Crofton - Vesuvius Bay. That can't be true? However is there a suitable swap out there for the Salish Heron that would a better fit? All ships have a load line they are not permitted to exceed. It is painted/welded on the side of the hull, and its location is determined by a series of calculations based on the stability and required freeboard. Google Plimsoll Mark for some interesting? reading.
The short answer, is no matter the cargo, the ship cannot be loaded so that it sinks past its load line.
In this case, it sounds like the design was changed and in an unloaded condition the Salish Heron is heavier than her sisters, leaving less capacity for cargo.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2022 20:51:40 GMT -8
Apologies for the double post, but I had an additional thought.
It is concerning that the Heron is already showing problems with being over weight. Ships typically gain weight over their lives, as they are modified to suit changing conditions and operations. See the Howe Sound Queen in the 60s vs at retirement. In addition, they gain weight due to the aggregate of paint, additional equipment and structural repairs over the lifetime. Normally there is a built in allowance of several tonnes (1-2% of the loaded displacement) for this purpose.
To be having to actively manage fuel and water loads this early in the vessels life is not a good sign. That's usually a management strategy reserved for later in life when many more modifications have been made.
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Post by explorer on Nov 7, 2022 21:53:34 GMT -8
Thank you both for the explanations.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 7, 2022 22:11:22 GMT -8
Could BC Ferries try to Salish Heron increase weight limit to allow heavy vehicles loads or reduce her weight? I personally think that BC Ferries should try to introduce truck only sailing on route 5 and other routes to help increase personally vehicle on other sailing on route.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Nov 7, 2022 23:57:54 GMT -8
Could BC Ferries try to Salish Heron increase weight limit to allow heavy vehicles loads or reduce her weight? I personally think that BC Ferries should try to introduce truck only sailing on route 5 and other routes to help increase personally vehicle on other sailing on route. The weight limit is a hard limit determined by the shape of the hull and overall design of the ship, you couldn't increase the limit without structurally changing the hull. Sponsons may be an option to increase the loaded displacement but that is fairly drastic. I'm curious what the difference is that increased the overall weight. Obviously some of the improvements made over the previous three have had consequences. Another option may be to modify the schedule or otherwise encourage truck and heavy vehicle traffic to utilize the Cumberland sailings.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 9, 2022 0:09:50 GMT -8
Could BC Ferries try to Salish Heron increase weight limit to allow heavy vehicles loads or reduce her weight? I personally think that BC Ferries should try to introduce truck only sailing on route 5 and other routes to help increase personally vehicle on other sailing on route. The weight limit is a hard limit determined by the shape of the hull and overall design of the ship, you couldn't increase the limit without structurally changing the hull. Sponsons may be an option to increase the loaded displacement but that is fairly drastic. If Salish Orca, Salish Eagle and Salish Raven all get this weight increase then sponsons should be only best option because I think route 5 both need to have superstructure or route 5 will need a change in schedule or service increase just help Salish Class carry heavy loads.
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Post by explorer on Nov 21, 2022 13:15:14 GMT -8
In May it was discussed that combining the Commercial Heavies with the Dangerous Goods Sailings on Route 6, would prove helpful. To date it has only been talk.
Would a vessel with one flat deck, capable of carrying 140 Vehicles, big sister to the Skeena not be more appropriate for a milk run like Route 5?
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