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Post by DENelson83 on May 23, 2013 19:25:51 GMT -8
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on May 23, 2013 19:37:54 GMT -8
I hope everyone involved is alright. I drove over that bridge after leaving Mount Vernon on Tuesday... Scary...
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Post by Balfour on May 23, 2013 19:52:33 GMT -8
The scary thing is that many of us here in BC and in Washington have driven over that bridge numerous times. I drove over it as recently as last November. Sadly it looks like there have been fatalities...
Obviously thorough inspection work will have to occur before a game plan for a repair can occur.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on May 23, 2013 20:08:13 GMT -8
I hope everyone involved is alright. I drove over that bridge after leaving Mount Vernon on Tuesday... Scary... This is very shocking. I first knew about this when CBC British Columbia showed this on their news after the Chicago-Detroit hockey game. They showed live feeds from KOMO. Watching this on our Seattle stations now. The last time I went across this bridge was aboard a mudslide bus replacement for the morning Amtrak train to Vancouver BC on the day of the Opening Ceremonies of the Paralympics in 2010, which I attended. Going to be interesting to see how transportation goes about in this area after this collapse.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 23, 2013 20:29:53 GMT -8
Hopefully they get fix soon. A least they have two back up routes.
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on May 23, 2013 20:34:23 GMT -8
I hope everyone involved is alright. I drove over that bridge after leaving Mount Vernon on Tuesday... Scary... This is very shocking. I first knew about this when CBC British Columbia showed this on their news after the Chicago-Detroit hockey game. They showed live feeds from KOMO. Watching this on our Seattle stations now. The last time I went across this bridge was aboard a mudslide bus replacement for the morning Amtrak train to Vancouver BC on the day of the Opening Ceremonies of the Paralympics in 2010, which I attended. Going to be interesting to see how transportation goes about in this area after this collapse. This is very scary. Yes the bridge was old, yes a truck hit a part of the structure. But it is still shocking. It is very similar to many other bridges along I-5 so WSDOT will most likely rebuild all of them to prevent further collapses. It's sure going to be a real mess with Memorial day traffic. Fortunately there is a bridge right next to it. Hope everyone involved in the crash will survive. EDIT: Watch the WSDOT alert: "On I-5 northbound & southbound at Skagit River Bridge (MP 228) near Mount Vernon, there is an incident blocking all lanes." I think this one will have to be displayed for a long time...
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Post by Steve Rosenow on May 23, 2013 20:37:47 GMT -8
This is very shocking. I first knew about this when CBC British Columbia showed this on their news after the Chicago-Detroit hockey game. They showed live feeds from KOMO. Watching this on our Seattle stations now. The last time I went across this bridge was aboard a mudslide bus replacement for the morning Amtrak train to Vancouver BC on the day of the Opening Ceremonies of the Paralympics in 2010, which I attended. Going to be interesting to see how transportation goes about in this area after this collapse. This is very scary. Yes the bridge was old, yes a truck hit a part of the structure. But it is still shocking. It is very similar to many other bridges along I-5 so WSDOT will most likely rebuild all of them to prevent further collapses. It's sure going to be a real mess with Memorial day traffic. Fortunately there is a bridge right next to it. Hope everyone involved in the crash will survive. KOMO is reporting that there are *no* deaths and only a few vehicles were on the span at the time.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 23, 2013 22:37:20 GMT -8
The scary thing is that many of us here in BC and in Washington have driven over that bridge numerous times. I drove over it as recently as last November. Sadly it looks like there have been fatalities... Obviously thorough inspection work will have to occur before a game plan for a repair can occur. No fatalities or serious injuries occurred. Only some cases of hypothermia. From what preliminary reports are saying, an overheight load with pilot cars should not have gone over that bridge due to the height restriction. My best guess is one that truss was damaged by the truck, there was no turning back. The clean break makes sense as it was that individual truss that failed. However, given a bit of experience with Mechanics of Materials, I would have assumed a factor of safety was designed into that bridge. Just preliminary thoughts. I think this could be reopened within a few months given the clean break and determination of a main cause of the incident.
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 24, 2013 4:34:34 GMT -8
A few of us had the idea that this bridge collapse should have it's own thread, because of the major incident and the expected ongoing issues about investigation, re-routing, reconstruction, etc.
So I've moved yesterday's initial posts into this here new thread.
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Post by Cable Cassidy on May 24, 2013 7:37:35 GMT -8
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Post by EGfleet on May 24, 2013 7:48:14 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on May 24, 2013 8:52:30 GMT -8
There are literally thousands of this type of bridge (through Howe Warren truss span) all over the US & Canada*. The overhead & side steel girders of these structures are not simply decorative. If several of the girders are severely damaged, catastrophic failure of the bridge is to be expected. There are reasons why they are not building this type of bridge any more. Replacing them all is not going to happen any time soon.
The truck hauling the over size/over height load that apparently hit the bridge was from Canada (Alberta, to be precise). There apparently was a pilot car. They should have known the clearances of all bridges/obstructions on their intended route from Edmonton to Vancouver, Washington. It is possible that the clearance information that they had for this bridge was incorrect. Hopefully the investigation into this collapse will look into all those factors.
Edit: * Any 'through' type truss bridge, regardless of the specific type (Howe, Warren, etc.) is vulnerable to this type of failure.
Thanks Steve for the correction on the specific type of bridge.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on May 24, 2013 9:07:15 GMT -8
There are literally thousands of this type of bridge (through Howe truss span) all over the US & Canada. The overhead & side steel girders of these structures are not simply decorative. If several of the girders are severely damaged, catastrophic failure of the bridge is to be expected. There are reasons why they are not building this type of bridge any more. Replacing them all is not going to happen any time soon. The truck hauling the over size/over height load that apparently hit the bridge was from Canada (Alberta, to be precise). There apparently was a pilot car. They should have known the clearances of all bridges/obstructions on their intended route from Edmonton to Vancouver, Washington. It is possible that the clearance information that they had for this bridge was incorrect. Hopefully the investigation into this collapse will look into all those factors. That's not a Howe truss. The type of truss in this collapse is a Warren truss. bridgehunter.com/wa/skagit/4794A0000000/ <--- Bridge Hunter report. It is also being reported by KOMO TV that the company had a valid oversize load permit as issued by the Washington DOL. Furthermore, Gov. Inslee just declared a state of emergency in three counties affected by it.
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Post by DENelson83 on May 24, 2013 10:39:07 GMT -8
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Post by Mike C on May 24, 2013 17:52:23 GMT -8
The Washington State Department of Transportation has been fantastically transparent in this process. I am extremely impressed with them, and they are doing all the right things in this situation. Here is some literature for your reading enjoyment:
For you engineers on this forum, here's the document for you - November 2012 Structure Inspection: www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/BDC48A87-304A-424A-8DD2-7823AF1FDC0C/92346/inspection2012_11_29.pdfSummary: the bridge has had visible rust and previous damage, i.e. it sounds like this is not the first time a vehicle has struck the truss. On page 2 in section 126 (Notes), you can see the list of pre-existing issues, some of which had been repaired (see the Repairs section). In 2008, it was noted that truss panel points had significant vegetation growth, potentially weakening the structure - I assume this was rectified.
Bridge Inspection Annual Report: www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F8DCA888-74A0-49F6-844A-6FB47CABACD3/0/GrayNotebookJun11_Bridges.pdfSummary: This is an overall look at all bridges in the state, including those owned by municipalities, counties, and other local governments. Good place to go for statewide statistics.
List of Structurally Deficient Bridges in Washington State: www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/6A570363-EC34-4010-986E-591A89CEA6FB/0/StructurallyDeficientBridges_Sept2011.pdfSummary: The Skagit River Bridge on I-5 located at MP 228.25 is not indicated on this list, meaning WSDOT had not marked it for structural deficiencies. It was, however, marked as "Functionally Obsolete" in an appraisal (this was indicated on bridgehunter.com, and I am assuming their source is the WSDOT). Functionally Obsolete does not mean that it has structural issues, however it does mean that it cannot adequately meet the needs of traffic on I-5.
For more coverage straight from the horses' mouth, check out the WSDOT page dedicated to this incident, and to bridge replacement: www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/I5/SkagitRiverBridgeReplacement/default.htm
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 24, 2013 19:17:02 GMT -8
Does WSDOT have any plans to rebuild the Skagit River Bridge?
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 24, 2013 19:18:31 GMT -8
Does WSDOT have any plans to rebuild the Skagit River Bridge? I don't know, because I haven't read those various links that MileagePhoto posted. Please read them and let us know if they mention a re-build plan.
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Post by WettCoast on May 24, 2013 19:21:43 GMT -8
Question for Americans regarding this bridge & Interstate highways in general.
Which level of government is responsible for their maintenance & improvement - the US federal government or individual states (or maybe even local counties/cities/towns)?
It is my understanding that the Interstate network was funded (at least partially) by the US federal government. If it is determined that this type of through truss 60 year old bridge has to go, and all Interstate bridges of the type must be replaced, who pays?
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 24, 2013 19:28:05 GMT -8
Does WSDOT have any plans to rebuild the Skagit River Bridge? I don't know, because I haven't read those various links that MileagePhoto posted. Please read them and let us know if they mention a re-build plan. I read the links none of them have it mentioned a re-build plan.
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Post by dofd on May 24, 2013 19:50:53 GMT -8
Does WSDOT have any plans to rebuild the Skagit River Bridge? The last that I heard tonight was that if the piers are undamaged and the steel on the rest of the bridge is sound (or with little repair), they will just replace the collapsed section. But there was no word if they would reinforce the rest of the bridge.
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Post by EGfleet on May 25, 2013 6:59:18 GMT -8
Does WSDOT have any plans to rebuild the Skagit River Bridge? The last that I heard tonight was that if the piers are undamaged and the steel on the rest of the bridge is sound (or with little repair), they will just replace the collapsed section. But there was no word if they would reinforce the rest of the bridge. Where did you hear that from? They were reporting on the news last night (both King 5 and Q13) that it was going to take the NTSB a full week for an assessment of the bridge to see if it is possible to repair it. Skagit Valley Herald: "Investigators will conduct underwater surveys of the bridge’s cement pilings and look at the understory for weaknesses. Some of the investigation will occur concurrently with efforts to repair the damaged span or replace the bridge entirely. Some investigators may remain in the area for longer, Hersman said." www.goskagit.com/all_access/brand-new-bridge-unlikely-officials-say/article_42a9ea78-c4f3-11e2-8641-0019bb2963f4.htmlAdmittedly, it is looking unlikely for outright replacement, but at this time it's too early to tell.
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Post by EGfleet on May 25, 2013 7:18:38 GMT -8
Question for Americans regarding this bridge & Interstate highways in general. Which level of government is responsible for their maintenance & improvement - the US federal government or individual states (or maybe even local counties/cities/towns)? It is my understanding that the Interstate network was funded (at least partially) by the US federal government. If it is determined that this type of through truss 60 year old bridge has to go, and all Interstate bridges of the type must be replaced, who pays? Well, in this case, the Everett Herald reports: "U.S. Sen. Patty Murray, who attended the press conference with Inslee, U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell, U.S. Rep. Suzan DelBene and other officials, said it's possible the federal government could foot 90 percent of the eventual repair bill." Assuming it can be fixed, of course. heraldnet.com/article/20130524/NEWS01/705249866#State-scours-for-temporary-Skagit-bridge
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Post by EGfleet on May 25, 2013 11:23:40 GMT -8
This photo just popped up on KOMO. That beam does not look good.
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Post by Kahloke on May 26, 2013 15:18:48 GMT -8
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Post by compdude787 on May 29, 2013 9:27:03 GMT -8
Question for Americans regarding this bridge & Interstate highways in general. Which level of government is responsible for their maintenance & improvement - the US federal government or individual states (or maybe even local counties/cities/towns)? It is my understanding that the Interstate network was funded (at least partially) by the US federal government. If it is determined that this type of through truss 60 year old bridge has to go, and all Interstate bridges of the type must be replaced, who pays? The states are respnsible for maintenance and improvements for highways and Interstates, but the federal government often provides some funding to a state for highway construction.
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