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Post by WettCoast on Sept 1, 2013 9:20:17 GMT -8
Note to moderators: this thread might be better placed elsewhere. However, I was hoping to prompt discussion re all the ships of the ferry fleets on the North American north-west coast (e.g. WSF's, BCFS & AMHS).
When I was a kid all of BC Ferries' Spaulding designed ships had two passenger decks and they were always called the 'Promenade Deck' (sometimes shortened to the 'Prom Deck) & the 'Sun Deck', with the latter being located above the former. Below the Prom Deck was the Car Deck. When platform car decks were added in the mid 1960's they distinguished by calling them the 'Car Deck' & the 'Platform Deck' (sometimes referred to as the 'Ramps').
When the C-class arrived in the mid 1970's the car decks became (lowest to highest) the Main (or Lower) Car Deck, the Gallery Car Deck, & the Upper Car Deck. The passenger decks, as I recall, were still referred to as the Prom Deck & Sun Deck.
Today, the term 'Prom Deck' seems to have been dropped altogether by BCFS. The decks seem to go by numbers, being referred to as 'Deck 5' for example.
Above the Sun Deck on BC Ferries you would find the 'Wheelhouse', also known as 'The Bridge' or even the 'Navigating Bridge'. On WSF's this is typically called the 'Pilothouse'. I am uncertain what term is used on AMHS vessels.
On WSF's you will find 'Shelter Decks', 'Hurricane Decks', and who knows what else. Again, for AMHS I am uncertain what terms are in use.
I would like this thread to be used for discussion on what we call various decks & parts of our ferries today, and what terms were used in the past. I also wish it to be about regional differences (i.e. WSF's vs BCF's vs AMHS).
Questions:
1 - Has the term 'Promenade Deck' been dumped by BC Ferries, and when did that term go out of favour?
2 - Do you like decks to be referred to by numbers rather than names?
WCFF members are all encouraged to add to the discussion.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 1, 2013 11:28:53 GMT -8
For Pomenade deck, I usually equate this with a ship that has an outside covered area where you can walk the length of the ship (ie. to "promenade" in the square-dance sense of the word).
I can see this on the Spaulding Vs & Bs, and also on the Coastals with what the German elevator-lady calls "Lounge Deck".
- for me, the outside of a true promenade deck is my favourite spot on a ship.
The BCF Coastal ships have also used the term "Hospitality deck" for the deck with the various food services and shops. I prefer the term "Saloon Deck" which is what I've seen on Queen of the North, and what was likely used on QPR and probably on the Blue Canoes.
On the Vs and Bs, the main passenger deck could be called "Saloon deck" because of the food services and shops, or it could be called "Promenade deck" because of the outside covered promenade.
I suppose that the variety of ships in the various fleets, especially the hodge-podge that is BC Ferries, contributes to the change to a deck numbering system, because each type of ship is different in the types of decks and the mix of indoor/outdoor usage on the various decks.
- Using a numbering system is an easier standard, because you almost always start at 1 for engine-room.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 2, 2013 12:33:33 GMT -8
Note to moderators: this thread might be better placed elsewhere. However, I was hoping to prompt discussion re all the ships of the ferry fleets on the North American north-west coast (e.g. WSF's, BCFS & AMHS).
When I was a kid all of BC Ferries' Spaulding designed ships had two passenger decks and they were always called the 'Promenade Deck' (sometimes shortened to the 'Prom Deck) & the 'Sun Deck', with the latter being located above the former. Below the Prom Deck was the Car Deck. When platform car decks were added in the mid 1960's they distinguished by calling them the 'Car Deck' & the 'Platform Deck' (sometimes referred to as the 'Ramps'). When the C-class arrived in the mid 1970's the car decks became (lowest to highest) the Main (or Lower) Car Deck, the Gallery Car Deck, & the Upper Car Deck. The passenger decks, as I recall, were still referred to as the Prom Deck & Sun Deck. Today, the term 'Prom Deck' seems to have been dropped altogether by BCFS. The decks seem to go by numbers, being referred to as 'Deck 5' for example. Above the Sun Deck on BC Ferries you would find the 'Wheelhouse', also known as 'The Bridge' or even the 'Navigating Bridge'. On WSF's this is typically called the 'Pilothouse'. I am uncertain what term is used on AMHS vessels. On WSF's you will find 'Shelter Decks', 'Hurricane Decks', and who knows what else. Again, for AMHS I am uncertain what terms are in use.
I would like this thread to be used for discussion on what we call various decks & parts of our ferries today, and what terms were used in the past. I also wish it to be about regional differences (i.e. WSF's vs BCF's vs AMHS). Questions: 1 - Has the term 'Promenade Deck' been dumped by BC Ferries, and when did that term go out of favour? 2 - Do you like decks to be referred to by numbers rather than names? WCFF members are all encouraged to add to the discussion. If I remember correctly a Promenade deck comes from Steamship Days and was a covered or partially covered deck that passengers used for "promenading" (walking) up and down. It often went from very near the front of the ship to the stern and then you could go up the other side of the ship. Because of the outdoor space it was often the point from which lifeboats would be loaded in case of emergency. The walk around the Promenade Deck of the Queen Mary moored in Long Beach, CA, is still a nice walk. It was the shipboard version too of the British habit of either circuiting a park in a Carriage and then later walking along special paths to be "seen" and to "see" how everyone else was dressed and to show off. They even did that in Great Houses where they had "long halls" and galleries build so the ladies could walk up and down in inclement weather. If you remember seeing any Jane Eyre novels they also did that in great ballrooms in places like Bath etc. It was one of the few locations where you could view and talk to members of the opposite sex without any scandal, as part of the ridiculous courting rituals of the day. Kind of the online dating of the day  . I think to use the term now would be only for nostalgic reasons and would be lost on the vast majority of traveling public. Although it is one of those rare bilingual words with the same spelling in English and French. There were previous "decks" that also were no longer used as the type of travel and mode of ship was changed. Signal Deck for example, now everyone phones or radios. Mizzen Deck is another for sail. Forecastle deck which was shortened to Forecastle and was the raised area short deck in the bow. And of course the stern equivalent to the forecastle and people may know from cartoons, the "Poop Deck". I can imagine some confusion with English as a second language and younger travelers over the latter. It seems that instead of naming decks by function, now decks are numbered or lettered. If someone doesn't know the origin of the words it might be more difficult to remember than a letter or number. At least we haven't degraded to the level of many parking lots. People who can't remember where they parked don't even seem to remember a number or letter and now go by colour or animal. A friend who is directionally challenged and seems to lose her car in her own driveway, once said to me as we were leaving a meeting, I am a blue penguin where the %$^#&#* is my car, referring to the huge parking lot under Toronto City Hall. After I had finished laughing, I showed her where her car was about 6 cars away and only partially hidden by an SUV. You can only degrade to the lowest common denominator for so long and then give up. I still like the term "Sun Deck" even though in some winters no sun is found on a BC Ferry. |
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Post by Scott on Sept 2, 2013 14:53:47 GMT -8
We have "degraded" to that level on some of the ferries. I'm sure the C class vessels have different sea-creature silhouettes at the various stairwells and elevators throughout the ship to help people find their cars. I can't recall if this is on all the ships. I've usually just referred to the "main passenger deck" where all the amenities are. Nothing very traditional in that, but usually people know what you're talking about on most of the ferries. With the new Coastal class ships, it's a bit more confusing because the "main" deck is above the secondary passenger level which also has some amenities... so for those ferries I've gotten pretty used to using their numbers, 5,6,7. - John H |
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 2, 2013 15:03:56 GMT -8
I did some thinking and small investigation into this topic.
Much of what Northern Exploration has said is in fact true. With regards to BC Ferries, I looked up Deck plans on one ship of just about every class and noticed a common theme. The majority of vessels simply call the deck above the car deck, "Passenger Deck", and the deck above that one is typically always called the Sundeck. The 1960 Spauldings still appropriately call the deck above the upper most car deck, the "Promenade Deck". However, just according to the Deck plans for the Coastals, Deck 5, 6, and 7 are refered to as 1st, 2nd, and 3rd "House Decks".
I think what it all comes down to these days, is how things can be labeled in such a way that wouldn't confuse everyone. The problem with our younger generations of people these days, is that nobody seems to really take in their surroundings too much, or even take the time to quickly try to examine whatever it is they're at. Personally, I'm all for sticking to the traditional naming scheme of things on the Ferries. However, I realize that not many people are going to understand the meaning of the Foc'sle deck, etc. On the C-Class, they go to the extreme of using pictures of Seals, Crabs, Orcas, etc to distinguish the differences between the Stairwells, which actually seems to work for a lot of people. Personally, my experience with that when the C-Class were first given that Mid Life refit was that I never put two and two together to distinguish the difference between the stairwells, and thought that the pictures were part of the whole new interior design. However, of course I was already familiar with the C-Class layout and didn't need to look for clues on how to get back to my car. On the Nanaimo, there's a somewhat grandfathered system for determining the difference between the Car Decks, by having different colours for each car deck (Blue and Orange). I know this always used to be the case on the 7 sisters back in the day, which seemed to make a lot of sense. Now it's very vague by having a random sign with an orange and blue circle on it near the entrance to the stairwell, and you don't see those colours until you reach the actual door itself on Decks 2 and 3.
Anyways, before I divert too farther off topic: My point was that people generally don't seem to adapt to their surroundings too well anymore. People even have a hard time determining at what point they've finally come aboard the Ferry itself. More often than you think, I'd have very puzzled looking passengers come up to me while they were already aboard the Skeena Queen, and then ask where they were to sit and wait for the Ferry to Salt Spring, not even having the slightest clue that they were already aboard the Ferry to Salt Spring.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 2, 2013 15:35:26 GMT -8
We have "degraded" to that level on some of the ferries. I'm sure the C class vessels have different sea-creature silhouettes at the various stairwells and elevators throughout the ship to help people find their cars. I can't recall if this is on all the ships. Forgot all about that. Oooops. Maybe some brainwave will hit next and they will call the stairwells BC Burger, Nanaimo Bar and BC Ferries Clam Chowder to help with onboard sales. |
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Neil
Voyager 
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Sept 5, 2013 21:09:29 GMT -8
I was wondering what we might call that little passenger accessible area that's been added to the Klitsa and Kahloke recently? Is it the promenade deck because it's one above the car deck, or is it the sun deck because it's one below the wheelhouse?
On the Bowen Queen and Mayne Queen, the deck above the car deck is clearly the promenade deck, because it has a covered outdoor area. The sun deck is also straightforward, since it's outside, and just below the wheelhouse. But what about the upper passenger lounge? I suppose BC Ferries has a name for it- or a number- but I'm not sure that would be the proper nautical term.
The North Island Princess also has a number of levels... even Tachek and the Quadra Queen II have a non- passenger accessible deck between the car deck and the passenger lounge, port and starboard sides... whatever it's called, I wouldn't know.
How about that dreadful little lounge on the old Mill Bay? It was below the car deck... besides 'dungeon', what would you have called that deck?
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 5, 2013 21:43:39 GMT -8
How about that dreadful little lounge on the old Mill Bay? It was below the car deck... besides 'dungeon', what would you have called that deck? The Starfish Lounge/Deck, The 'Ship's Bowels', ... |
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886 
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 11, 2013 21:53:25 GMT -8
How about that dreadful little lounge on the old Mill Bay? It was below the car deck... besides 'dungeon', what would you have called that deck? The Starfish Lounge/Deck, The 'Ship's Bowels', ... You guys are mean to the Mill Bay  . It was clearly a first class dining saloon. What about the story in the Bannerman's book where one captain convinced his wife the Saltspring Queen had the best coffee shop in the fleet, and it turned about to be the engine room. If I recall correctly, the sundeck/promenade deck tradition for BCFerries started with the Sidney Class, and they were the only two ships to keep their real outside sundecks at the stern, and their midships sun lounge with stern facing windows. But the notion of a promenade deck goes back to the first successful passenger steamships, I would imagine. Before that, it wasn't exactly safe for passengers to stray out on deck during the days of sail. The QPR, I believe, featured an actual boat deck, as well as separate bridge deck (the deck below the bridge while the bridge itself was the navigation bridge deck) and housetop deck, in addition to the promenade deck, although her outside decks were rather limited. The housetop was the roof of the bridge, and the officers cabins behind it. There is actually a throwback to the old promenade decks on the Coastals with their covered outside decks on 'Deck 5', but it is really a bit of a dead end with the wheelhouses being on that deck, you can't walk all the way around. |
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Post by compdude787 on Sept 12, 2013 8:09:03 GMT -8
The problem with our younger generations of people these days, is that nobody seems to really take in their surroundings too much, or even take the time to quickly try to examine whatever it is they're at. Not so for me. After having gone down to the wrong part of the car deck far too many times, I decided to get in the habit of making note of what things are right around the stairway I came up. (i.e. posters, ads, etc.) I have done that ever since and it works perfectly. On the C-Class, they go to the extreme of using pictures of Seals, Crabs, Orcas, etc to distinguish the differences between the Stairwells, which actually seems to work for a lot of people. Personally, my experience with that when the C-Class were first given that Mid Life refit was that I never put two and two together to distinguish the difference between the stairwells, and thought that the pictures were part of the whole new interior design. However, of course I was already familiar with the C-Class layout and didn't need to look for clues on how to get back to my car. I noticed those on my ride on the Queen of Surrey back in 2008. I really liked those visual reminders of what's the right stairwell, and I thought they were really helpful. WSF's JMIIs do label their car deck stairwells with the letters A, B, C, D and a different kind of shape, but it's not so glaringly obvious as what BCF does on the Cs to identify which stairway to go down. Anyways, before I divert too farther off topic: My point was that people generally don't seem to adapt to their surroundings too well anymore. People even have a hard time determining at what point they've finally come aboard the Ferry itself. More often than you think, I'd have very puzzled looking passengers come up to me while they were already aboard the Skeena Queen, and then ask where they were to sit and wait for the Ferry to Salt Spring, not even having the slightest clue that they were already aboard the Ferry to Salt Spring. What?! Wow...  Some people really weren't paying attention, or just completely clueless. |
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. It was clearly a first class dining saloon. What about the story in the Bannerman's book where one captain convinced his wife the Saltspring Queen had the best coffee shop in the fleet, and it turned about to be the engine room.
Some people really weren't paying attention, or just completely clueless.