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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2014 13:50:41 GMT -8
This issue affects 2 ships, so I've set up a new thread, here: ============================ Some updates to the BC Ferry Commissioner website, that might be of interest to some here: 1) Invitation for public comment on the upcoming Spirit class mid-life upgrade project HERE...and here is BCFS' submission to the Commissioner re the Spirits MLU - this is an 87-page document - lots of reading about Spiritual mid-life upgrades. BCFS submission HERE
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 22, 2014 14:03:53 GMT -8
This was reported on CBC Radio news at noon today. Here is a link to the online version of that news item. My editorial comment: Its about time BCFS invested some money in these vessels, arguably their most important ships, & largest revenue sources... The LNG & fuel efficiency upgrades are the right thing to do and probably should have already been done.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2014 14:17:50 GMT -8
I'm slowly reading BCFS' submission for the MLU.
Here's a small item that has been a frequent topic of discussion on our forum:
- footnote at bottom of page 11
============
and a few more items of interest, from pages 14-15:
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Post by Scott on Sept 22, 2014 15:03:12 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2014 16:13:28 GMT -8
Another interesting item, from page 31.
==============
From page 32, re cost of running the WCFF Buffet
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2014 16:27:37 GMT -8
Refreshing the design of decks 5 & 6 - pages 36-37 ----------
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2014 16:38:31 GMT -8
For those reading this report, take a good read of the risks summaries, from pages 52-56.
With the crucial "Schedule Risk" and the WMG Vancouver/Victoria facilities presumably being busy with Federal contracts, I don't know where BCF expects these Spirit upgrades to be done. If they go outside the Pacific Northwest, the towing/transit time hurts their project schedule (ie. there is no time for towing to a far-off shipyard).
I wonder if this will go to Vigor in Seattle?
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
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Post by SolDuc on Sept 22, 2014 17:08:51 GMT -8
For those reading this report, take a good read of the risks summaries, from pages 52-56. With the crucial "Schedule Risk" and the WMG Vancouver/Victoria facilities presumably being busy with Federal contracts, I don't know where BCF expects these Spirit upgrades to be done. If they go outside the Pacific Northwest, the towing/transit time hurts their project schedule (ie. there is no time for towing to a far-off shipyard). I wonder if this will go to Vigor in Seattle? Vigor Seattle would be possible, but Vigor Portland might be as well. AMHS has done their vessel overhauls there in recent years, so BCFS could potentially send their ships there. Of course Seattle is closer, but that's a close-enough location to be considered.
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 22, 2014 18:40:47 GMT -8
Another interesting item, from page 31. When I was aboard the AMHS vessel Taku this past summer I went looking for the 'gift shop' and could not find it. I asked a crew member and was told that all gift shops on all AMHS vessels had either been phased out, or were about to be phased out. Apparently they were not generating much revenue & the space is needed for other purposes. Just so everyone knows, however, the AMHS 'gift shops' have/had more in common with what were once called the 'Newsstands' on the BCF vessels of the 1960's. BC Ferries feels otherwise about gift shops, obviously. I will go into the gift shops occasionally to buy a newspaper, magazine, chocolate bar, or maybe a book. I don't think I have ever bought any clothing item. The prices seem to be about double what you would pay for comparable items elsewhere. Sometimes they have 'specials'. I know that other WCFF members like to patronize food services aboard BCFS vessels, but what about those gift shops?
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Sept 22, 2014 19:24:53 GMT -8
:)with regard to spirit upgrades, expanded gift shops are liable to be gambling bars, with rich coleman dealing dice! :)mrdot.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Sept 22, 2014 19:46:44 GMT -8
Another interesting item, from page 31. When I was aboard the AMHS vessel Taku this past summer I went looking for the 'gift shop' and could not find it. I asked a crew member and was told that all gift shops on all AMHS vessels had either been phased out, or were about to be phased out. Apparently they were not generating much revenue & the space is needed for other purposes. Just so everyone knows, however, the AMHS 'gift shops' have/had more in common with what were once called the 'Newsstands' on the BCF vessels of the 1960's. BC Ferries feels otherwise about gift shops, obviously. I will go into the gift shops occasionally to buy a newspaper, magazine, chocolate bar, or maybe a book. I don't think I have ever bought any clothing item. The prices seem to be about double what you would pay for comparable items elsewhere. Sometimes they have 'specials'. I know that other WCFF members like to patronize food services aboard BCFS vessels, but what about those gift shops? Maybe BC Ferries carries better stuff than AMHS. I only buy newspapers and magazines, but my daughters have bought clothing and other items. If these outlets are making money, I'm in favor of expanding them.
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Sept 22, 2014 20:45:07 GMT -8
Another interesting item, from page 31. When I was aboard the AMHS vessel Taku this past summer I went looking for the 'gift shop' and could not find it. I asked a crew member and was told that all gift shops on all AMHS vessels had either been phased out, or were about to be phased out. Apparently they were not generating much revenue & the space is needed for other purposes. Just so everyone knows, however, the AMHS 'gift shops' have/had more in common with what were once called the 'Newsstands' on the BCF vessels of the 1960's. BC Ferries feels otherwise about gift shops, obviously. I will go into the gift shops occasionally to buy a newspaper, magazine, chocolate bar, or maybe a book. I don't think I have ever bought any clothing item. The prices seem to be about double what you would pay for comparable items elsewhere. Sometimes they have 'specials'. I know that other WCFF members like to patronize food services aboard BCFS vessels, but what about those gift shops? The only two gift shops that I found open were those of the Kennicott and the Columbia, and I was told that it was their last season on both ships. The Fairweather also had some goodies for sale in the galley. They sold postcards, books, some clothing and the like. I brought 8 posters of 8 AMHS ships (Columbia, Kennicott, Malaspina, Matanuska, Taku, Fairweather, Chenega and Tustumena, they didn't have the Lituya or LeConte class) and my family brought postcards. I think that a major difference with BC Ferries is that AMHS riders are mostly locals getting somewhere and off-the-beaten-path tourists, not the average tourist that loves gift shops, which here is travelling on the Cruise Ship. BCFS does not have that local-only "problem" on the major routes as virtually all Vancouver Island Tourists will get there using BCFS.
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Post by Dane on Sept 23, 2014 10:48:31 GMT -8
My only two comments -
I had assumed the two year old rumour of the buffet's demise seemed illogical. But BCFS is best characterized by the illogical so I've been nervously waiting for the unveiling of this plan. Glad to see the buffet lives on.
Ignoring the factual inaccuracy that there isn't food / drink on Deck 6 beyond vending machines - I am curious where a coffee bar would go without an impact on the seating on the vessel. One thing that makes the Spirit Class great is the fact you can actually sit down essentially all year, indoors. Notwithstanding the removal of a play area it seems seating will be lost. Or the SeaWest Lounge could go away (or be cut in half) but that seems unlikely. Back to the future we go, remember the SoVI's coffee bar?
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Post by Mike C on Sept 23, 2014 11:05:09 GMT -8
My only two comments - I had assumed the two year old rumour of the buffet's demise seemed illogical. But BCFS is best characterized by the illogical so I've been nervously waiting for the unveiling of this plan. Glad to see the buffet lives on. Ignoring the factual inaccuracy that there isn't food / drink on Deck 6 beyond vending machines - I am curious where a coffee bar would go without an impact on the seating on the vessel. One thing that makes the Spirit Class great is the fact you can actually sit down essentially all year, indoors. Notwithstanding the removal of a play area it seems seating will be lost. Or the SeaWest Lounge could go away (or be cut in half) but that seems unlikely. Back to the future we go, remember the SoVI's coffee bar? x2 re. Deck 6. One of the most frustrating things I find about traveling on the Spirit ferries is the lack of adequate seating. Despite two solid decks of passenger space, it only has three - albeit massive - passenger lounge spaces. Considering these are the largest ferries on North America's west coast, it's pretty lame. It would be disappointing to see them pull up seats on Deck 6. I would rather see the snack bar be placed in the SeaWest lounge space - but that's totally based on personal opinion, and I can't present a business case on why the SeaWest should be removed. I am with Neil, in that, if the on board service is making money, it should be retained. I am also hoping for an expansion of cafeteria seating (unlikely) - the current layout is a bit inadequate. ...or maybe I'll just wait an hour and take the Celebration.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 11:24:34 GMT -8
Looking at the proposed layout, it looks like they are gonna put in a mini lounge near the bow and remove two staterooms. The coffee bar would be in the forward 'A' lounge.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 23, 2014 13:36:39 GMT -8
Looking at the proposed layout, it looks like they are gonna put in a mini lounge near the bow and remove the staterooms. The coffee bar would be in the forward 'B' lounge. I'm looking at the same proposed layout diagram on Page 79 of the report, and I can't find a new location of the Snack Bar on Deck 6. From the diagram, I'm assuming that the new snack bar will be at the aft end of A-lounge, which is just forward of the engine casings. ...but I'm a novice re the Spirits' current layouts, so I'm likely missing something.
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Post by Starsteward on Sept 23, 2014 14:02:52 GMT -8
What!. no mention of where the Casino is going to be located on the newly refurbished S class vessels??? Aw shucks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 14:16:07 GMT -8
Looking at the proposed layout, it looks like they are gonna put in a mini lounge near the bow and remove the staterooms. The coffee bar would be in the forward 'B' lounge. I'm looking at the same proposed layout diagram on Page 79 of the report, and I can't find a new location of the Snack Bar on Deck 6. From the diagram, I'm assuming that the new snack bar will be at the aft end of A-lounge, which is just forward of the engine casings. ...but I'm a novice re the Spirits' current layouts, so I'm likely missing something. I agree. Seems like the aft end of the forward lounge. (Will edit post as the forward lounge is A-lounge).
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KE7JFF
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Post by KE7JFF on Sept 23, 2014 16:26:48 GMT -8
Vigor Portland I know right now has the dock space so it would be the easiest; though that would be odd seeing a Spirit go down the Columbia into Swan Island...
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 25, 2014 11:59:23 GMT -8
BC Ferry Commissioner approved the Spirit upgrades, yesterday in a decision. 62 Page decision document can be found HERE------------- excerpts here: ------------ Consultant's report excerpts: This quote is always worth repeating... LNG issues: Coffee bar relocation impacts:
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 25, 2014 12:10:42 GMT -8
Some more excerpts from the November 24, 2014 Ferry Commissioner report on the Spirit MLU:
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 26, 2014 10:18:59 GMT -8
Here's a feedback letter from a concerned citizen, that is part of the Spirit MLU ferry commissioner approval report, which I referenced yesterday.
- this is for forum reader entertainment.
The letter writer doesn't understand (or doesn't want to understand) that a 50-year asset needs some major refits/upgrades periodically during its long life. An MLU for a long-term asset is not extravagant spending; it's a necessity.
Anyways, when you read this letter, remember that it's in response to the specific issue of the Spirit ferries needing an MLU, and the various components of that MLU:
Last time I checked, the Spirit ferries work on Route-1, which is the system's busiest route by far. Those 2 ferries are also less economical to run than the Coastals, resulting in non-spiritual service during the off-season. Improving the Spirits to make them more economical to work, and to do required mid-life upgrades, will allow BCFerries to operate its busiest route more economically, which helps the company's overall finances in the long-term.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 16:14:24 GMT -8
The letter writer doesn't understand (or doesn't want to understand) that a 50-year asset needs some major refits/upgrades periodically during its long life. An MLU for a long-term asset is not extravagant spending; it's a necessity. Last time I checked, the Spirit ferries work on Route-1, which is the system's busiest route by far. Those 2 ferries are also less economical to run than the Coastals, resulting in non-spiritual service during the off-season. Improving the Spirits to make them more economical to work, and to do required mid-life upgrades, will allow BCFerries to operate its busiest route more economically, which helps the company's overall finances in the long-term. All good points, Mr. Horn. The reader mentions that BCF should invest to ensure vessels are on time. I think that skipping the MLU would result in more breakdowns, causing further delays. -Those who read your excerpts would know that the engines have reached end-of-life. (I guess those engines have a shorter life than the MaKs on the C class.) He does mention that nicer seats are not necessary, but I'm sure that the "cabin refresh" budget is relatively small compared to the rest. Plus they aren't gutting the whole interior, just updating the colours.
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
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Post by Nick on Nov 26, 2014 17:56:39 GMT -8
The reader mentions that BCF should invest to ensure vessels are on time. I think that skipping the MLU would result in more breakdowns, causing further delays. -Those who read your excerpts would know that the engines have reached end-of-life. (I guess those engines have a shorter life than the MaKs on the C class.) He does mention that nicer seats are not necessary, but I'm sure that the "cabin refresh" budget is relatively small compared to the rest. Plus they aren't gutting the whole interior, just updating the colours. It's not really that the MaK's have a longer lifespan, it's more that the Spirits' engines require significant renewal and overhaul to make them sufficient for the next 20 years. The C class engines would have had this same investment made in them during their MLUs a decade ago. BCF is taking advantage of this opportunity to skip the investment required in the current engines and embrace a new technology. If the C class had 20 years of life remaining they would probably be doing the same thing to them. One thing to remember when looking at the cost of maintaining these engines is that they are not built like the engine in your car. Virtually all the contact surfaces in the engine, i.e. the parts that actually wear, are replaceable. In response to Mr. Horn's post... it's very frustrating as an informed ferry user to see comments made by people who truly have no idea how the system actually works, or how heavy and strict the regulations concerning ships are in Canada.
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Post by YoursTruly on Mar 22, 2015 15:34:27 GMT -8
My only two comments - I had assumed the two year old rumour of the buffet's demise seemed illogical. But BCFS is best characterized by the illogical so I've been nervously waiting for the unveiling of this plan. Glad to see the buffet lives on. Ignoring the factual inaccuracy that there isn't food / drink on Deck 6 beyond vending machines - I am curious where a coffee bar would go without an impact on the seating on the vessel. One thing that makes the Spirit Class great is the fact you can actually sit down essentially all year, indoors. Notwithstanding the removal of a play area it seems seating will be lost. Or the SeaWest Lounge could go away (or be cut in half) but that seems unlikely. Back to the future we go, remember the SoVI's coffee bar? The plan thus far for deck 6 coffee bar *most likely named Sitka lounge like the Coastal Renaissance?* Is to put it forward where the conference room, Captain and Chief Officer's cabin and deckhand locker room, along with taking out the Port side state rooms. Captain and officers cabins are to be relocated to deck 7. It reminds me a lot of the Queen of Sannich with removing the crew mess on the side of the fiddley. Budget concerns are still widely active, and other than bridge,engine room, and bulbous bow redesign, there hasn't been anything set in stone as of yet so who knows how far they will go with this. Hmm, I forgot that the ME Chutes are going to be replaced with the LSA slides as well, from Deck 5. (slides aren't long enough for Deck 6 with the 20 degree list regulation(s) ) Standardizing equipment across the fleet, finally they figured it out!
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