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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 9, 2015 8:38:10 GMT -8
3 Shipyards are in the running for doing the Spiritual MLUs. ...and a 1 year delay in the project, to give them more time to get it planned correctly. from HERE
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Post by Curtis on Jul 9, 2015 10:42:04 GMT -8
Surprising... not just that two off-shore shipyards are in the running, but also that they're making this whole process public knowledge. While there will certainly be public backlash if Remontowa or Fincantieri gets this contract, I think Seaspan still has the greatest advantage of the three. Considering they've undertaken every major vessel MLU or ELU so far it would be a bit of a shock to see BC Ferries pick one of the latter two.
I can see why they're doing this though, being the largest vessels in the fleet, BC Ferries can't afford to have any serious setbacks, though transiting these vessels to Europe and back will definitely add a significant amount of time to the overall down time... Time will tell I suppose.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 21:26:07 GMT -8
What will these mid life refits actually cost?
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jul 10, 2015 22:47:44 GMT -8
What will these mid life refits actually cost? ...depends on the three individual bids submitted by Seaspan, Remontowa and Fincantieri.
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Post by Starsteward on Jul 11, 2015 7:46:51 GMT -8
What will these mid life refits actually cost? ...depends on the three individual bids submitted by Seaspan, Remontowa and Fincantieri. Isn't Seaspan supposed to be somewhat busy with the federal government's shipbuilding program?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 11, 2015 8:45:21 GMT -8
...depends on the three individual bids submitted by Seaspan, Remontowa and Fincantieri. Isn't Seaspan supposed to be somewhat busy with the federal government's shipbuilding program?
Busy to the point that some of the Navy Supply ships might have to be built in a Quebec yard instead. I think that Seaspan's chances of winning this Spirit refit bid are about the same as the chances of the Baynes Sound Connector cable-ferry being in-service by Labour Day.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 10:09:23 GMT -8
I wouldn't follow the government's word so closely.
Davie Shipyard in Lauzon (across from Quebec City) has struggled over the past years. They haven't seen new ships in a while, aside from two new ferries for Tadoussac which are presently under construction. There was a time where they were full, but much of the expertise has left to other countries where union/employer disputes are less frequent or don't happen at all. The other thing is that Levis-Lauzon is the Federal Public Safety Minister's riding. There is something close to 1000 shipyard workers on EI (at least back in 2012). Spreading the work out between BC and Quebec makes sense, for a government seeking re-election.
Sending the Spirits to Seaspan would be pretty spectacular to see. As far as I know the Spirits have never ventured into Vancouver Harbour.
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Post by Starsteward on Jul 11, 2015 10:18:45 GMT -8
I wouldn't follow the government's word so closely. Davie Shipyard in Lauzon (across from Quebec City) has struggled over the past years. They haven't seen new ships in a while, aside from two new ferries for Tadoussac which are presently under construction. There was a time where they were full, but much of the expertise has left to other countries where union/employer disputes are less frequent or don't happen at all. The other thing is that Levis-Lauzon is the Federal Public Safety Minister's riding. There is something close to 1000 shipyard workers on EI (at least back in 2012). Spreading the work out between BC and Quebec makes sense, for a government seeking re-election. Sending the Spirits to Seaspan would be pretty spectacular to see. As far as I know the Spirits have never ventured into Vancouver Harbour. Davie Shipyard being located in the riding represented by the current Federal Public Safety Minister, and in a riding with a large number of potential votes, the whole issue as to gets what in terms of contracts etc. might become very interesting should the present federal government be shown the exit door come October.
If my 'senior' memory serves correct, I believe the 'Spirit of B.C.' did an Open House after her launch and before commencing service on route one.
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Post by Dane on Jul 12, 2015 20:00:27 GMT -8
Sending the Spirits to Seaspan would be pretty spectacular to see. As far as I know the Spirits have never ventured into Vancouver Harbour. Both were at Canada Place before they entered service, and at least one has been at SeaSpan in North Van somewhere between 2004-2008 (sorry for the big date range, I just remember it happened when I was going to University).
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Post by Dane on Sept 22, 2015 18:59:59 GMT -8
From the TC: www.timescolonist.com/news/local/ferries-on-sea-trials-in-saanich-inlet-1.2065169Ferries on sea trials in Saanich Inlet Don’t worry — they’re not lost. If you spot the Spirit of Vancouver Island and the Spirit of British Columbia in Saanich Inlet this week, it’s because they’re doing sea trials to demonstrate their performance for the three shipyards bidding for their mid-life upgrades. The upgrades will include conversion to dual-fuel capacity, meaning the ships will be able to operate on liquefied natural gas or diesel. “But we would want to operate them on LNG, because it’s much cheaper and it’s cleaner-burning fuel,” said B.C. Ferries spokeswoman Deborah Marshall. “With the dual fuel, it gives you the option.” During sea trials in the out-of-the-way location, Coastal Celebration and Queen of New Westminster are doing replacement duty on the Swartz Bay-Tsawwassen route. Sailings have been added because those vessels are smaller. The trials, which began Monday and run until Thursday, will test such things as manoeuvrability, acceleration and speed. Seaspan’s Vancouver Shipyards, Poland’s Remontowa SA and Fincantieri of Italy are the three bidders. Negotiations with B.C. Ferries will continue for the next three months, with a contract expected to be awarded in early 2016. Measuring and verifying vessel performance through sea trials is an important part of the bidding process, said Mark Wilson, B.C. Ferries vice-president of engineering. B.C. Ferries’ plan calls for Spirit of British Columbia, built in 1993, to be the first vessel to be worked on, from the fall of 2017 through the spring of 2018, putting it out of service for about seven months. Spirit of Vancouver Island, built in 1994, would follow, undergoing work from the fall of 2018 to the spring of 2019. Marshall said it’s critical that both ferries go back into service before the end of June in 2018 and 2019, so they are available during the busy summer months. - See more at: www.timescolonist.com/news/local/ferries-on-sea-trials-in-saanich-inlet-1.2065169#sthash.ej3LAehQ.dpuf
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 13, 2016 18:25:59 GMT -8
3 Shipyards are in the running for doing the Spiritual MLUs. ...and a 1 year delay in the project, to give them more time to get it planned correctly. from HERESo here we are in mid February, a full eight months later and we have yet to hear an announcement??? Is something going on? If these contracts go overseas will each vessel end up out of service for six months (four months in the yard and a month on each end to send over & bring back)?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 13, 2016 18:31:05 GMT -8
So here we are in mid February, a full eight months later and we have yet to hear an announcement??? Is something going on? If these contracts go overseas will each vessel end up out of service for six months (four months in the yard and a month on each end to send over & bring back)? Good questions. I'm wondering if the LNG part of the project is being re-thought. LNG was a big part of the original project idea, and if LNG is removed from the upgrades, then the entire project scope changes greatly. Or maybe they're just taking their time in selection. But with one delay already for this project, I can expect further delays and changes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 18:55:11 GMT -8
So here we are in mid February, a full eight months later and we have yet to hear an announcement??? Is something going on? If these contracts go overseas will each vessel end up out of service for six months (four months in the yard and a month on each end to send over & bring back)? Good questions. I'm wondering if the LNG part of the project is being re-thought. LNG was a big part of the original project idea, and if LNG is removed from the upgrades, then the entire project scope changes greatly. Or maybe they're just taking their time in selection. But with one delay already for this project, I can expect further delays and changes. I'm only speculating, but I'm wondering if the issues with the LNG engines on the Quebec ferry F.-A. Gauthier (built at Fincantieri, in Italy), have anything to do with it. Fincantieri is one of the three shortlisted yards.
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 13, 2016 19:35:07 GMT -8
I can't see why they would move away from the conversion to dual fuel. I believe that the technology is now proven. I understand that there are many ships all over the world that have dual fuel capable engines and are burning LNG fuel in them as a matter of course. I also expect the current rock bottom prices for petroleum products including marine diesel will not last (though it may go on for a couple of years). Getting this project done on the Spirits is the right thing to do.
Again, if they get sent overseas, just how many months will each vessel be out of service for. If they are serviced here in BC the outage time ought to be less?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 21:33:55 GMT -8
Again, if they get sent overseas, just how many months will each vessel be out of service for. If they are serviced here in BC the outage time ought to be less? Considering the possible delays, doing the upgrades overseas is a risky move. It has been mentioned that the ships would leave right after Thanksgiving, and returning to service by the May long weekend. Factoring in the transit time (~45 days), that would allow roughly five months to complete an MLU. That isn't very long, considering that the Queen of Capilano was out for four months for her upgrade, and wasn't re-engined.
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 13, 2016 22:15:04 GMT -8
Again, if they get sent overseas, just how many months will each vessel be out of service for. If they are serviced here in BC the outage time ought to be less? Considering the possible delays, doing the upgrades overseas is a risky move. It has been mentioned that the ships would leave right after Thanksgiving, and returning to service by the May long weekend. Factoring in the transit time (~45 days), that would allow roughly five months to complete an MLU. That isn't very long, considering that the Queen of Capilano was out for four months for her upgrade, and wasn't re-engined. So, You think more than seven months may be needed for each vessel if sent overseas. That is an auful lot of time to be without one of the two principal workhorses on BCF's busiest route. They will have to meet heavy demand during those off season points when demand is high (e.g. Christmas, Spring Break, Easter & possibly the 24th of May weekend. There is great potential to really agitate customers. I do hope they are weighing those factors in making their decision as to who gets the work. Lowest bidder may be a poor choice.
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Post by Koastal Karl on Feb 13, 2016 23:29:37 GMT -8
why do they have to go overseas?? Is there no place here that can do this job??
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Post by Curtis on Feb 13, 2016 23:56:38 GMT -8
Considering the possible delays, doing the upgrades overseas is a risky move. It has been mentioned that the ships would leave right after Thanksgiving, and returning to service by the May long weekend. Factoring in the transit time (~45 days), that would allow roughly five months to complete an MLU. That isn't very long, considering that the Queen of Capilano was out for four months for her upgrade, and wasn't re-engined. So, You think more than seven months may be needed for each vessel if sent overseas. That is an auful lot of time to be without one of the two principal workhorses on BCF's busiest route. They will have to meet heavy demand during those off season points when demand is high (e.g. Christmas, Spring Break, Easter & possibly the 24th of May weekend. There is great potential to really agitate customers. In terms of time for the Spirit MLU, a better indication might be the 'C' Class MLUs, which generally took about 7 months. (Mid-November to Late May/Mid-June) I'm not positive if it would take more time or not to re-engine a vessel the size of the Spirits, but I have a hard time believing the time needed would be any shorter if the contract went overseas. On that note, I'm sure BCF is taking the possibility of a delay highly into account with this project. A delay of say a month or more could well be catastrophic if it bordered on the start of the Summer season. If there were delays in the MLU project, there certainly would be options. The easiest thing to do would be to add more sailings which BCF does already during holidays and long weekends, I'm sure if the Spirit back-in-service date was pushed to say late-June they would add sailings in that time frame to make up for lost traffic and if that wasn't enough, perhaps they would have to consider deploying the New West full time earlier than usual. At the same time though, a Coastal only carries 40 less vehicles than a Spirit these days and roughly 500 passengers less on a full license so the losses in capacity over a day could easily be made up by adding say 2 or 3 additional sailings. They could also have coast-saver promotions to try and divert people who would take traditionally busy sailings to non-traditionally busy ones. Like I said, there are options, they just have to take the necessary action. It's not like it will be as bad as the reduction in service passengers on Route 7 saw in January this year and last. (Fingers crossed of course it doesn't come to that...)
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 14, 2016 8:31:52 GMT -8
why do they have to go overseas?? Is there no place here that can do this job?? They don't have to go overseas, but overseas might be the best option. The only local major shipyard for large vessels is Vancouver Shipyards, and they are busy building the CCGS Sir John Franklin.
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Post by jwjsamster on Feb 14, 2016 8:50:31 GMT -8
why do they have to go overseas?? Is there no place here that can do this job?? They don't have to go overseas, but overseas might be the best option. The only local major shipyard for large vessels is Vancouver Shipyards, and they are busy building the CCGS Sir John Franklin. Is there not a shipyard in the rest of Canada that could do it? I'm thinking somewhere in the maritimes or in Quebec.If not in B.C., can we not at least keep it in Canada? -jwj
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 9:41:20 GMT -8
The only local major shipyard for large vessels is Vancouver Shipyards, and they are busy building the CCGS Sir John Franklin. Except Vancouver Drydock and Vancouver Shipyards are two different places. The Sir John Franklin is being built at the foot of Pemberton Ave, while ships are being refitted (including the SoBC until tomorrow) at the foot of St Georges Ave. The last ferry to be built at this location was the Island Sky. As far as I know, there is no drydock and Vancouver Shipyards. Is there not a shipyard in the rest of Canada that could do it? I'm thinking somewhere in the maritimes or in Quebec.If not in B.C., can we not at least keep it in Canada? They could send it to Irving in Halifax. I have no idea if they have capacity right now or if they will in the near future. Davie in Quebec City (Lauzon) has not been reliable with job action over the years, and they are currently building two ferries, but that should be over soon. I doubt BC Ferries will go back on their shortlist, which include Remontowa, Fincantieri, and Seaspan.
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 14, 2016 10:00:58 GMT -8
On that note, I'm sure BCF is taking the possibility of a delay highly into account with this project. A delay of say a month or more could well be catastrophic if it bordered on the start of the Summer season. If there were delays in the MLU project, there certainly would be options. The easiest thing to do would be to add more sailings which BCF does already during holidays and long weekends, I'm sure if the Spirit back-in-service date was pushed to say late-June they would add sailings in that time frame to make up for lost traffic and if that wasn't enough, perhaps they would have to consider deploying the New West full time earlier than usual. At the same time though, a Coastal only carries 40 less vehicles than a Spirit these days and roughly 500 passengers less on a full license so the losses in capacity over a day could easily be made up by adding say 2 or 3 additional sailings. They could also have coast-saver promotions to try and divert people who would take traditionally busy sailings to non-traditionally busy ones. Like I said, there are options, they just have to take the necessary action. It's not like it will be as bad as the reduction in service passengers on Route 7 saw in January this year and last. (Fingers crossed of course it doesn't come to that...) How do you go about adding more sailings lets say on the Victoria Day long weekend when all of your ships are already fully deployed? Add sailings at 2 in the morning? The demand on BC Ferries main routes is as high on busy holiday weekends (Victoria Day, Thanksgiving) as it is in summer. Having just three boats available for service on the busiest of the routes is not good, especially considering that the boat that is missing is one of the two with the greatest capacity. I can see keeping 2 Coastal class vessels on route 1 plus one Spirit & the New West. That leaves the third Coastal & five C's to cover routes 2, 3 & 30. God help you if there is a breakdown. BC Ferries will also be challenged to get all the required off season annual refits done to all the other major vessels during the lower demand periods in fall, winter & spring.
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Post by shipyard on Feb 14, 2016 19:20:26 GMT -8
I think the thing to remember is this is not normal annual maintenance, but a major upgrade to a large piece of transportation infrastructure. If we were talking about a major highway upgrade or bridge replacement, we would tend to shrug it off and say inconvenience and disruption is to be expected, and plan our lives/trips accordingly, instead of demanding a full temporary highway/bridge be built temporarily to avoid the construction area
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Post by bigcountry on Feb 14, 2016 20:38:04 GMT -8
correct me if I'm mistaken, but BCF could get by with using 2 Coastals, 1 Spirit and the New West on Route 1 and the Cowichan, Oak Bay and Coquitlam on Route 2 with the Coquitlam helping out on Route 3 during Christmas
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Post by timmyc on Feb 15, 2016 14:43:48 GMT -8
Someone just posted on Twitter a photo of Spirit of BC leaving Seaspan Drydock, presumably today:
Anyone know if it's related to the mid-life upgrade selection process?
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