Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 9:45:18 GMT -8
With BC Ferries beginning the consultation phase for new schedules in the SGIs, here is a thread for our discussions on this. Yesterday, the company unveiled its timeline (seen here) to develop these new schedules. Not surprsingly, they conincide with the arrival of the first Intermediate Class Ferry. The process is broken down into four phases in nine months, with the goal of making brand new schedules for routes 5/5a and 9/9a (see last quote I've put here for more info). Phase 1, the survey, is underway April 16-May 7. -I joined the mailing list on their webpage, to get updates. I'll also be completing the survey as an occasional traveller on these routes. Here is an excerpt of the above link, basically providing some background: The guiding principles for this process: And the "we want to hear from you" paragraph... I encourage everyone to have a look at the webpage. There is some useful links at the bottom, such as other consultation materials and relevant rulings from the Commissioner.
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Apr 12, 2015 22:21:35 GMT -8
Any feelings on where this is actually going? Basically route nine is having reduced day-to-day capacity, however, in peak periods where two ICFs are running there will be a substantial net increase in capacity. What will be a bit awkward in any scenario is if there's a summer with ICF1 and the Bowen Queen. That'll be a lot of stress on route nine capacity availability.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2015 22:29:19 GMT -8
Given the recent ferry commission review ( this) saying that the situation with three SSI terminals has to change, I'd say there are major changes ahead. My understanding with the ICFs is that there is gonna be at least two of them on route 9 June-Sept, then a second vessel during shoulder season based on availability/refits. This is a significant increase in capacity where needed. I don't see any major changes coming to the route 5 schedule aside from tweaking so it connects with route 9. It has been in place for decades, wouldn't want to fix something that isn't broken. I could be wrong though.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 13, 2015 6:56:19 GMT -8
Here's the back-story to this: re this report: HEREAnd now for BIG item #4 - Southern Gulf Islands Strategy: - this starts on page 22 of the report -------------------
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 13, 2015 9:19:19 GMT -8
Any feelings on where this is actually going? Basically route nine is having reduced day-to-day capacity, however, in peak periods where two ICFs are running there will be a substantial net increase in capacity. What will be a bit awkward in any scenario is if there's a summer with ICF1 and the Bowen Queen. That'll be a lot of stress on route nine capacity availability. The scheduled delivery dates for ICF #2 & #3 are October 2016 and February 2017. - so both will be after the Summer of 2016, and well before the start of Summer 2017. This should allow us to avoid the above-noted scenario of an ICF & BQ on Route 9 & 9A. Summer 2016 should be the Q'Nanaimo and Bowen Queen Summer 2017 should be the ICF-2 and ICF-3
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Apr 13, 2015 10:59:07 GMT -8
I knew about the Fall deliveries. I'm just a cynic about schedules being followed for ships going into service. As an example. I present almost the entire fleet (that's a joke... Sort of)
Thanks for the information from the Commission quoted above. I don't rember reading that before.
So perhaps the end game is a terminal reduction? Not a crazy idea. It goes without saying on this forum, though, that the three terminal locations are not ideal for cross use, and in the case of Fulford and Long Harbour not even particularly ideal for what they do today.
As the government doesn't care what riders think, I impulse suspect ing the greatest challenges to overcome would be changes with the Union for home base locations and such.
Will be interesting to watch play out.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
|
Post by Neil on Apr 13, 2015 13:21:22 GMT -8
I think the talk of consolidating terminals on Saltspring is just BC Ferries making a show of 'due diligence' in considering all options for economy. There's really no practical way it could be done without either eliminating service or spending huge bucks on terminal expansion.
You can't have the Skeena Queen running out of Long Harbour due to route length. Fulford has no room to marshal vehicles for two routes. The heavily used connection to Crofton really can't operate from anywhere other than Vesuvius. So the only opportunity to go from three to two terminals would be the construction of a new terminal, perhaps around Isabella Point, or major upgrading of Fulford... both of which options would be extremely expensive.
They also talk of a short link from Mayne to Saturna, which would again involve a new terminal and road access, as well as basing crew there. Extremely costly.
Most likely outcome, particularly since they talk of perhaps not replacing either the Bowen or the Mayne; a net loss of service three or four years down the road.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 14:03:11 GMT -8
I agree with Neil mostly.
If anything I think we'll just see Long Harbour become a stopover terminal rather than a home port. There are some upgrades in store for Fulford Harbour, and most commercial traffic aside from Dangerous Goods going to SSI go through there. As it is the HSQ cannot accommodate B-Trains. Just speculation, but I think we'll see primary route 9 vessel based in Swartz Bay with the seasonal one based in Tsawwassen. In any case terminal elimination might be a moot point, as it sounds like these ICFs might have live-aboard crew.
Regarding Mayne-Saturna my understanding was they might just implement a route Kwuna style, with boat launch ramps. I realize it's still a bit far fetched but not a bad idea.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 13, 2015 14:26:20 GMT -8
They also talk of a short link from Mayne to Saturna, which would again involve a new terminal and road access, as well as basing crew there. Extremely costly. For those just tuning-in now, the original thread had some discussion of the Mayne-Saturna short-link idea: starting HERE
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Apr 14, 2015 19:04:17 GMT -8
I have signed up for the updates and am curious to follow this process along. This could spell major changes, obviously. Nice seeing change that is (I think) is motivated by efficiency and now just the trend of figuratively walking into a dark room and cutting as we have seen in recent years.
I'm not that educated on the subject, but I'm calling no live aboard crew right now. Just seems unimaginable. Who would take that job?
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
|
Post by Neil on Apr 14, 2015 22:06:50 GMT -8
I have signed up for the updates and am curious to follow this process along. This could spell major changes, obviously. Nice seeing change that is (I think) is motivated by efficiency and now just the trend of figuratively walking into a dark room and cutting as we have seen in recent years. I'm not that educated on the subject, but I'm calling no live aboard crew right now. Just seems unimaginable. Who would take that job? "...motivated by efficiency..." ? Dane, you're a lot less cynical than me, apparently. Talk of cutting Salt Spring terminals, not replacing the Bowen or perhaps the Mayne, having crews live aboard vessels, and cutting down on unused vehicle capacity suggests to me nothing more than the usual bottom line fixation that we've come to expect from BC Ferries and their Liberal overseers... not necessarily synonymous with efficiency, from a user/resident standpoint. I suspect that the consultation process will be on par with the recent sham exercise of, 'here's what we need to cut; choose your poison.' Maybe they won't be so blatant as to attach a dollar figure to it like last time, but the aim will be the same.
In planning land based transit, 'efficiency' takes into account that routes will often be empty going one way while busy going the other, depending on the time of day. When looking at marine transit, Christy and her minions look at light traffic in one direction as averaging out the busier traffic in the other, justifying cuts to service. I doubt that mindset will change.
Bottom line... if southern Gulf Islanders get really peeved, they'll probably vote Green, and Christy has no fear of Andrew Weaver.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 7:16:47 GMT -8
In planning land based transit, 'efficiency' takes into account that routes will often be empty going one way while busy going the other, depending on the time of day. When looking at marine transit, Christy and her minions look at light traffic in one direction as averaging out the busier traffic in the other, justifying cuts to service. I doubt that mindset will change. I should mention that BC Transit is facing a budget shortfall, (in other words the government isn't increasing the budget) and some systems will see service cuts. Still, it is disappointing that the Province sees routes 5/9 as the "biggest opportunity for efficiencies," because I really don't see any waste in the route 5 or route 9 schedule. I suppose the Nanaimo is too much in the slow season. However, I'm looking forward to seeing more point-to-point service after the completion of this review.
|
|
|
Post by roeco on May 31, 2015 9:07:56 GMT -8
In reality 3 terminals on Saltspring is not going to work in the future...according to Bc Ferries obviously one is going to need to be eliminated. And Im assuming Long Harbour would be the ideal candidate. Unless a Swartz Bay to Long Harbour service would work but Im not thinkin that's a viable option. So upgrading Fulford would probably be the best solution. Obviously closing Vesuvius would not be an option.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 15:11:06 GMT -8
The survey results will be posted on July 10th.
Next steps for this project: consultations in Richmond, Sidney, and on the Islands, and another online survey following that...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 21:17:20 GMT -8
Why not eliminate this route altogether?
People whom choose to live on remote islands can make their way to Swartz Bay on the little ferry that serves their island.
Then they can take a large ferry to Tsawassen.
|
|
Mayne
Voyager
I come from a long line of sinners like me
Posts: 289
|
Post by Mayne on Jul 10, 2015 21:51:31 GMT -8
Why not eliminate this route altogether? People whom choose to live on remote islands can make their way to Swartz Bay on the little ferry that serves their island. Then they can take a large ferry to Tsawassen. O ya and lets tell route 8 to swim to Bowen while we are at it. Do you know the amount of traffic that travels on route 9? Route 5 could never in a million years deal with the traffic in its present configuration with all traffic going via route 1/5, you would be adding another ship that is the size of what is allready on 9. There is no possible argument that would make logical sense to eliminate route 9.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 11:27:52 GMT -8
Bowen Island doesn't use a large ferry and has nothing to do with this thread.
Living on a remote island is a choice not a necessity and the taxpayers of B.C. should not be paying for rich people's transportation. Period.
Judging by your handle and your reaction to my post, you must be one of the self entitled people I'm guessing on Mayne Island?
They can add an extra sailing here and there from Tsawassen or Swartz bay when needed-they usually have a spare large vessel hanging around.
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Jul 11, 2015 11:35:24 GMT -8
Bowen Island doesn't use a large ferry and has nothing to do with this thread. Living on a remote island is a choice not a necessity and the taxpayers of B.C. should not be paying for rich people's transportation. Period. Judging by your handle and your reaction to my post, you must be one of the self entitled people I'm guessing on Mayne Island? They can add an extra sailing here and there from Tsawassen or Swartz bay when needed-they usually have a spare large vessel hanging around. Are you trying to be deliberately provocative? This forum may not be the right place for you.
|
|
Mayne
Voyager
I come from a long line of sinners like me
Posts: 289
|
Post by Mayne on Jul 11, 2015 12:11:30 GMT -8
Bowen Island doesn't use a large ferry and has nothing to do with this thread. Living on a remote island is a choice not a necessity and the taxpayers of B.C. should not be paying for rich people's transportation. Period. Judging by your handle and your reaction to my post, you must be one of the self entitled people I'm guessing on Mayne Island? They can add an extra sailing here and there from Tsawassen or Swartz bay when needed-they usually have a spare large vessel hanging around. Well then, if someone could let my bank know I am rich that would be fantastic. I think based on your response you have no real knowledge on the ferry system, try looking at ridership levels, the Bowen remark was just as relevant, a slightly smaller ship, more sailings and requires more subsidies. If you feel you need to come on this fourm and make judgements in witch you know nothing about I am going to suggest you go elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jul 11, 2015 12:15:33 GMT -8
They can add an extra sailing here and there from Tsawassen or Swartz bay when needed-they usually have a spare large vessel hanging around. ...so if there's a "spare large vessel hanging around" "Tsawassen [sic]" or Swartz Bay, there's an entire crew that can just be called in on a whim to run it?
|
|
|
Post by Mike C on Jul 11, 2015 12:39:36 GMT -8
Bowen Island doesn't use a large ferry and has nothing to do with this thread. Living on a remote island is a choice not a necessity and the taxpayers of B.C. should not be paying for rich people's transportation. Period. Judging by your handle and your reaction to my post, you must be one of the self entitled people I'm guessing on Mayne Island? They can add an extra sailing here and there from Tsawassen or Swartz bay when needed-they usually have a spare large vessel hanging around. There is one of two possible explanations to this post: 1) You lack a basic conception of what public transportation actually means; or 2) You make outlandish statements on internet forums looking for an angry response. Your comments are more fit for the comments section on a Global News article, or on Facebook, rather than a forum like this. You have offered nothing constructive, but rather generalize a large group of average British Columbians into a higher income bracket based on their geographic location. If this is the kind of contribution we can expect from you, then I don't think you are a good fit for this community.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 11, 2015 13:23:47 GMT -8
Bowen Island doesn't use a large ferry and has nothing to do with this thread. Living on a remote island is a choice not a necessity and the taxpayers of B.C. should not be paying for rich people's transportation. Period. Judging by your handle and your reaction to my post, you must be one of the self entitled people I'm guessing on Mayne Island? They can add an extra sailing here and there from Tsawassen or Swartz bay when needed-they usually have a spare large vessel hanging around. Moderator speaking: - Judging by this post (and hints from the others), you're not going to be a good fit here on this forum. Sorry it didn't work out.
|
|
|
Post by hwy19man on Jul 12, 2015 13:06:23 GMT -8
Bowen Island doesn't use a large ferry and has nothing to do with this thread.
Living on a remote island is a choice not a necessity and the taxpayers of B.C. should not be paying for rich people's transportation. Period.
Judging by your handle and your reaction to my post, you must be one of the self entitled people I'm guessing on Mayne Island?
They can add an extra sailing here and there from Tsawassen or Swartz bay when needed-they usually have a spare large vessel hanging around. It looks like someone has seriously missed the boat on this topic.
|
|
|
Post by roeco on Jul 24, 2015 13:26:08 GMT -8
Im wondering is their enough traffic to warrant a Swartz Bay to Mayne Island dedicated service, then branch everything off from Mayne? LIke have an Inter Island service from Mayne to Pender,Galiano and Salt Spring and Saturna. Or even just a smaller Nimpkish type vessel do Mayne to Saturna.Also do a Saltspring,Mayne to Tsawassen service. With Mayne Island being a hub ( a natural transfer point with its 2 berths) All traffic going to / from the Islands,etc can transfer their.
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Aug 18, 2015 15:00:04 GMT -8
|
|