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Post by 1foot2ships on Jan 14, 2020 1:32:59 GMT -8
Bluebus is definitely right in Canada Line. Surge crowds don't justify giant transit systems. The 620 is actually a low ridership route, it just has a lot of riders in short bursts. In the current iteration of South Delta SkyTrain wont happen with current planning realities. sorry dane, mike, bluebusfan. i definitely disagree with that line of reasoning.
1. dont u guys think that with a rapid transit service, ridership would increase to match what all those commuter buses from white rock, crescent beach, south delta, tsawassen, ladner do every morning/afternoon? 2. i dont dispute your summary of the 620 route, but the current planning reality is exactly whats wrong with transit planning here in CAN/US; a re-think by our elected bodies is required.
ergo...
rapid transit should be built as a skeleton infrastructure allowing public transit to easily connect with. CAN/US urban planning is largely reactionary so thats why we have sprawl. we have sprawl b/c everybody wants to live in single family detached. b/c of that, we never have enough concentrated users to make public transit feasible. when rapid transit does become cost effective, it really isnt, b/c by then, the increased build-up costs have actually been absorbed by quad taxation (municipal contribution to TL, gas taxes to TL, grants by prov gov't, grants by fed gov't = u, me, everybody else contributing 4 separate ways).
so... in the case of rapid transit to TSW, the time to build it is now, while there are no obstacles in the way, before the population demands it, before the cost of acquiring a ROW becomes prohibitive, before the 2nd, 3rd, 4th upgrade of the highway... (ex: instead of massey tunnel replacement)
as for v2v: that boat is just sitting there on its dock, tied up in the inner harbour waiting for creditors and the other sharks to come for it. i think paddlehardercafe is onto something though, as this could be a great opportunity for that nanaimo venture to acquire a proven vessel and double their fleet ...for cheap(?).
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Post by Dane on Jan 14, 2020 7:20:21 GMT -8
I don't think anyone would disagree with you if money were no object! But, money is very much an object 😂
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Post by vancouverecho on Jan 14, 2020 12:33:05 GMT -8
Bluebus is definitely right in Canada Line. Surge crowds don't justify giant transit systems. The 620 is actually a low ridership route, it just has a lot of riders in short bursts. In the current iteration of South Delta SkyTrain wont happen with current planning realities. sorry dane, mike, bluebusfan. i definitely disagree with that line of reasoning.
1. dont u guys think that with a rapid transit service, ridership would increase to match what all those commuter buses from white rock, crescent beach, south delta, tsawassen, ladner do every morning/afternoon? 2. i dont dispute your summary of the 620 route, but the current planning reality is exactly whats wrong with transit planning here in CAN/US; a re-think by our elected bodies is required.
ergo...
rapid transit should be built as a skeleton infrastructure allowing public transit to easily connect with. CAN/US urban planning is largely reactionary so thats why we have sprawl. we have sprawl b/c everybody wants to live in single family detached. b/c of that, we never have enough concentrated users to make public transit feasible. when rapid transit does become cost effective, it really isnt, b/c by then, the increased build-up costs have actually been absorbed by quad taxation (municipal contribution to TL, gas taxes to TL, grants by prov gov't, grants by fed gov't = u, me, everybody else contributing 4 separate ways).
so... in the case of rapid transit to TSW, the time to build it is now, while there are no obstacles in the way, before the population demands it, before the cost of acquiring a ROW becomes prohibitive, before the 2nd, 3rd, 4th upgrade of the highway... (ex: instead of massey tunnel replacement)
as for v2v: that boat is just sitting there on its dock, tied up in the inner harbour waiting for creditors and the other sharks to come for it. i think paddlehardercafe is onto something though, as this could be a great opportunity for that nanaimo venture to acquire a proven vessel and double their fleet ...for cheap(?).
The problem of course is money and resources. Both are not infinite.
Significantly overbuilding infrastructure and expecting "if you build it, they would come" could spectacularly backfire on you if the ridership just isn't there to begin with.
Witness the Detroit People Mover; it was built with the expectation that the ridership would be about 67,700 daily. In reality, the ridership has been exceptionally low; barely even 1/6 of that number in the first year, and the only time it gets busy is during big events.
The line has also required extensive municipal and state subsidies to keep running, and has been a continual money pit ever since it opened.
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Neil
Voyager 
Posts: 7,309
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Post by Neil on Jan 14, 2020 23:09:14 GMT -8
Watching an ad for Rocky Mountaineer this evening, I was thinking that obviously there is a market for upscale tourist services in this province, but it has to be the right model.
Rocky Mountaineer has built on a vision of classic train travel, with a combination of rolling stock and overall experience, cuisine being a key part, that allows passengers to feel that they're not just seeing grand scenery, but getting a taste of what train travel used to be in a bygone era.
V2V had the scenery, but they had a very expensive fare, and their vessel suggested nothing that could connect people to the age of coastal steamers. No dining room, no strolling around a promenade deck... it was more like an adapted airline model... or at least, that's what I gathered from their website, never having taken it.
It was never destined to fly. Or sail.
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Post by Dane on Jan 15, 2020 6:43:23 GMT -8
V2V had a series of issues well discussed; the Rocky Mountaineer post strikes a good tone at what perhaps they would like to have been apart of insofar as market is concerned.
Operators like Rocky Mountaineer really value stability - the contract demands on their bus & hotel partners I know are onerous to ensure a smooth experience and consistency of brand.
V2V's start with far from that. Vessel issues that were presumably out of their control knocking out a big period of service, becoming a seasonal vice year round service, and changing the schedule significantly at least four times which included two home port swaps.
Frankly of the reasonably significant resources of Riverside, who were tied into Victoria pretty well, couldn't make a run of this, I suspect it's done for at least a decade or so. Geographically it's just such an odd route that you really need a pull, like RMR or the indirect competing service offered now.
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Post by vancouverecho on Jan 15, 2020 10:34:06 GMT -8
Also consider Prince of Whales; as I noted before, they run a pair of high speed catamarans between Vancouver and Victoria, but they do it in the context of a whale watching excursion and day trip, and so far, they have managed to carve out a niche there.
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Post by dofd on Jan 16, 2020 0:21:36 GMT -8
Back to the V2V, pretty sure they are looking for other work. Maybe back home to Australia? Anyway, it is going somewhere, the company is to big to not put it on a run or sell it.
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Post by paulvanb on Aug 3, 2020 7:31:31 GMT -8
As of this morning, she is looking forlorn in Victoria harbour.  |
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Post by roeco on Aug 4, 2020 18:44:06 GMT -8
I was quite shocked when i heard they were gonna operate Victoria to Vancouver...like what is it 3 hrs and a bit(to long a run). No incentive to take it no matter price. However I wonder if they ever thought of Maybe Nanaimo to Vancouver lot shorter run and maybe able to draw more people can do downtown to downtown in less time and thats an incentive.
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Post by whalebreath on Aug 5, 2020 21:29:23 GMT -8
However I wonder if they ever thought of Maybe Nanaimo to Vancouver lot shorter run and maybe able to draw more people can do downtown to downtown in less time and thats an incentive. For various reasons that run is something of a bottomless pit and I doubt we'll see any actual business done in the lifetime of anyone posting here. |
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Post by 1foot2ships on Aug 6, 2020 8:38:11 GMT -8
However I wonder if they ever thought of Maybe Nanaimo to Vancouver lot shorter run and maybe able to draw more people can do downtown to downtown in less time and thats an incentive. For various reasons that run is something of a bottomless pit and I doubt we'll see any actual business done in the lifetime of anyone posting here. 1. thnx for not using the word never 2. but i cautiously disagree with you. - whalebreath is right: N-V is a straight shot across, whereas V-V, is hindered by geography - the previous operators, (and their predecessors) marketed this connection akin to living in cloverdale/langley/beyond and commuting to DT - with regularly timed service, & lower housing prices in N, i imagine this theoretically could work - those various reasons you mention... i cant think of besides gov't bureaucracy, correct price point, and the problem of empty boats (traffic would dominantly be one direction am and opposite pm) * WCE also has one direction traffic, but they work b/c they dont need to double back plus they get gov't funding instead of being taxed MODS: if this blows up, maybe you can move these posts to the other board. sorry. |
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Post by paulvanb on Aug 7, 2020 21:39:35 GMT -8
From Tuesday night.  |
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Post by avgeekjoe on Sept 14, 2020 13:27:11 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 14, 2020 15:28:19 GMT -8
I suddenly feel a deep need to discuss Anacortes-Sidney over here, as well as transit bus lanes over here.
Also, I'm wondering if Tampa will win the Stanley Cup, and if Stamkos is even necessary.
Last point: Would a PEI to Cape Breton ferry route be known as "Anagreengables - Sydney", and can I discuss it over here?
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Post by avgeekjoe on Sept 14, 2020 15:30:03 GMT -8
I suddenly feel a deep need to discuss Anacortes-Sidney over here, as well as transit bus lanes over here. Also, I'm wondering if Tampa will win the Stanley Cup, and if Stamkos is even necessary. Last point: Would a PEI to Cape Breton ferry route be known as "Anagreengables - Sydney", and can I discuss it over here?  |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 14, 2020 16:02:27 GMT -8
I suddenly feel a deep need to discuss Anacortes-Sidney over here, as well as transit bus lanes over here. Also, I'm wondering if Tampa will win the Stanley Cup, and if Stamkos is even necessary. Last point: Would a PEI to Cape Breton ferry route be known as "Anagreengables - Sydney", and can I discuss it over here? The emoticon or whatever it is is lost on me. I have no idea what that particular little circle is supposed to represent. I've got humourous creativity (sorry about that), so I could describe some random ideas of what the really small circle thingy means, but I'd just be guessing. Plus I run the risk of just getting another small circle reply, and then my creative effort is as wasted as this post reply already is. But it looks a bit like a Boston Bruins logo. ....and then I turned my head, and it all made sense. |
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Post by Mike on Sept 14, 2020 18:39:50 GMT -8
Please leave the moderating to the moderators. |
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grk2
Chief Steward
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Post by grk2 on Mar 4, 2021 14:15:25 GMT -8
March 4, 2021. V2V Empress has been hauled out at Point Hope Shipyards.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Mar 4, 2021 16:15:09 GMT -8
March 4, 2021. V2V Empress has been hauled out at Point Hope Shipyards. I wonder what the plan is for V2V Empress? |
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,309
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Post by Neil on Mar 4, 2021 20:07:45 GMT -8
March 4, 2021. V2V Empress has been hauled out at Point Hope Shipyards. I wonder what the plan is for V2V Empress? She's for sale. If you've got $6 million in your piggy bank, she's yours. The photos on the sale site show a vessel with a very bland, sterile interior, like a great big airplane. Maybe one of the reasons why she wasn't practical for cross-strait travel in terms of price, and not fancy enough to impress a theoretical luxury market. |
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Post by vancouverecho on Mar 6, 2021 13:35:55 GMT -8
I wonder what the plan is for V2V Empress? She's for sale. If you've got $6 million in your piggy bank, she's yours. The photos on the sale site show a vessel with a very bland, sterile interior, like a great big airplane. Maybe one of the reasons why she wasn't practical for cross-strait travel in terms of price, and not fancy enough to impress a theoretical luxury market. Yep, here's here a listing, with a lot of pictures:
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Mar 6, 2021 18:58:06 GMT -8
I wonder where V2V Empress will end up. $6 million seems like steep price for her.
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Post by whalebreath on Mar 7, 2021 19:55:05 GMT -8
I wonder where V2V Empress will end up. $6 million seems like steep price for her. I travelled that ship it would make a great floating fishing lodge-all it takes is money........ |
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,309
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Post by Neil on Mar 7, 2021 21:14:39 GMT -8
I wonder where V2V Empress will end up. $6 million seems like steep price for her. I travelled that ship it would make a great floating fishing lodge-all it takes is money........ With what they would have to charge their paying guests to justify the $6 million purchase price, you'd need to be happy to effectively pay probably about ten grand for every salmon you caught.  I imagine their broker advised them on the asking price, but I'm guessing that if this vessel does sell... the numbers will look a bit different. They'd be a lot better off if they had a 'Vancouver Special' at 33rd and Main to flog. |
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Post by whalebreath on Mar 10, 2021 21:42:49 GMT -8
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