Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 2, 2020 21:36:20 GMT -8
Wow. Labour contracts still matter. Sometimes, in our 'gig' economy, where employers seem to have free rein to pay people just as long as they're pleased to do so, you can almost forget that small legality. Unions are sooo inconvenient. Congrats to the BCFMWU.
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dave2
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Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
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Post by dave2 on Oct 17, 2020 13:47:32 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 17, 2020 17:26:51 GMT -8
We're living in an era where the Narcissist-in-Chief in the White House declares that there are "very fine people" among fascist white supremacists. Every wingnut finds a 'community' online, and they reinforce each other's lunatic notions. These doofuses were travelling to a rally of Q Anon, anti-mask, and whatever other crap, in Vancouver. Sometimes I wonder... is science passe? Has rational thinking gone out of favour? I used to really get into professional wrestling, but I always understood it was staged. I just hope that these clowns are a tiny, noisy minority, but when they graduate from ruining facebook pages to actually harassing people with their nonsense, it may be time for real concern.
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 17, 2020 22:19:10 GMT -8
We're living in an era where the Narcissist-in-Chief in the White House declares that there are "very fine people" among fascist white supremacists. Every wingnut finds a 'community' online, and they reinforce each other's lunatic notions. These doofuses were travelling to a rally of Q Anon, anti-mask, and whatever other crap, in Vancouver. Sometimes I wonder... is science passe? Has rational thinking gone out of favour? I used to really get into professional wrestling, but I always understood it was staged. I just hope that these clowns are a tiny, noisy minority, but when they graduate from ruining facebook pages to actually harassing people with their nonsense, it may be time for real concern. I think they got off way too easy with their one day BC Ferries sailing ban ...
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dave2
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Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
Posts: 155
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Post by dave2 on Oct 28, 2020 12:25:07 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 28, 2020 17:25:55 GMT -8
One thing this story fails to mention is a very common omission in pretty much every story on this issue. That being, that banning passengers from enclosed car decks is, as far as I know, common around the world. It is even the case on the Coho to Port Angeles. BC Ferries was always an outlier in that respect. The story also makes a curious reference to a decade between 2007 and 2017 when passengers were allowed on lower car decks of BC Ferries vessels. As far as I can recall, passengers were never banned from there, back to 1960.
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dave2
Chief Steward
Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
Posts: 155
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Post by dave2 on Oct 28, 2020 18:57:10 GMT -8
One thing this story fails to mention is a very common omission in pretty much every story on this issue. That being, that banning passengers from enclosed car decks is, as far as I know, common around the world. It is even the case on the Coho to Port Angeles. BC Ferries was always an outlier in that respect. The story also makes a curious reference to a decade between 2007 and 2017 when passengers were allowed on lower car decks of BC Ferries vessels. As far as I can recall, passengers were never banned from there, back to 1960. I think what they're saying is that BC Ferries was exempt from the rule from 2007 to 2017, and prior to 2007 there was no rule to be exempt from. On a related note, an eMail from the federal transportation minister posted on reddit today. Hmm, what's this about an average of two smoke/fire incidents per year on ships with enclosed car decks? Surely that's not the case on our ferries! Dear Sir/Madam: Thank you for your correspondence regarding the decision taken by Transport Canada to remove the temporary flexibility allowing passengers to remain in their vehicles in enclosed vehicle decks on ferries. Please be aware that the safety of all passengers on public transportation is a priority for Transport Canada, and enclosed car deck ferries pose unique safety challenges, particularly with respect to fire, vessel stability and evacuation. Remaining in a vehicle on an enclosed vehicle deck while a ferry is operating is not safe for passengers. This practice is prohibited under international maritime law and the Canada Shipping Act, 2001. On enclosed vehicle decks, fuelled vehicles, and bulk and dangerous goods are often parked tightly together. A fire, flooding or collision incident creates an extremely difficult situation in which to evacuate everyone safely. Fire or smoke-related incidents aboard ships with enclosed car decks are happening on average more than twice a year in Canada. In an emergency evacuation where a ferry takes on water, passengers on a closed car deck are at a much higher risk of losing their lives. The decision to allow passengers to remain in their vehicles was a temporary measure as part of a necessary response to the unprecedented circumstances of COVID-19, and was implemented at a time when the virus was not as well understood. It provided flexibility as Transport Canada and our partners collectively worked to address both marine safety and public health risks. Knowledge of how the virus spreads has evolved since the initial mitigation measures were implemented, and coupled with the gradual resumption of businesses across Canada, tailored health protection measures have been developed, communicated and implemented in all public transportation sectors. While on board ferries, passengers will continue to be required to follow all health protection measures implemented by the ferry operator, in accordance with the Public Health Agency of Canada guidelines and provincial requirements. It is also important to emphasize that requiring passengers to vacate their vehicles is only mandatory for vehicles located on enclosed vehicle decks, and that in all other cases (i.e., open car decks), passengers are not required to leave their vehicles. Thank you again for writing. Yours sincerely, The Honourable Marc Garneau, P.C., M.P. Minister of Transport
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 29, 2020 9:26:37 GMT -8
One thing this story fails to mention is a very common omission in pretty much every story on this issue. That being, that banning passengers from enclosed car decks is, as far as I know, common around the world. It is even the case on the Coho to Port Angeles. BC Ferries was always an outlier in that respect. The story also makes a curious reference to a decade between 2007 and 2017 when passengers were allowed on lower car decks of BC Ferries vessels. As far as I can recall, passengers were never banned from there, back to 1960. You're absolutely right Neil. It is worth noting however that remaining on the car deck of the northern ferries has not been permitted since about 1994 (the time of the Estonia sinking in Europe). I can only imagine the chaos that would come from having to do a rapid evacuation of a ship with a serious engine room fire that spreads to a car deck full of people sleeping in their cars. Do we expect crew members to risk their lives trying to save the lives of those individuals passed out in their cars?
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Post by Scott on Oct 31, 2020 23:21:31 GMT -8
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Post by avgeekjoe on Nov 1, 2020 0:33:56 GMT -8
I read this in total. Due to copyright, I don't think I should quote from it at length here. Between the tragic incidents described and what's going on in Downtown Vancouver, BC tonight expect a change in tone up in BC. It's time to get tough on Covid19 - and the maskholes who spread it. I mean what if a crew of a ferry has to isolate and pray they can defeat Covid19? That's a big effing deal. Already transits in the US have lost operators due to Covid19. Running a ferry requires a crew to operate each ferry. I'll stop there. Too upset to keep typing more.
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Neil
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Posts: 7,151
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Post by Neil on Nov 1, 2020 9:04:33 GMT -8
Unusual to see criticism of law enforcement from a body like BC Ferries, but I absolutely agree with Mark Collins. You can sense his anger in what he wrote. It's getting to the point where these conspiracy idiots are not just ranting in their little facebook groups or wherever else online, but they are now endangering people with their tin hat stupidity. With these people, science is on the same level as 'woo', superstition, and paranoid conspiracy theories... you just pick whichever feels right to you.
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Post by Dane on Nov 2, 2020 14:20:49 GMT -8
Unusual to see criticism of law enforcement from a body like BC Ferries, So 2020.... But of course WVPD was following Provincial direction, which is, except in very specific windows to do nothing.
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dave2
Chief Steward
Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
Posts: 155
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Post by dave2 on Nov 6, 2020 15:57:09 GMT -8
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Post by vancouverecho on Nov 13, 2020 20:34:48 GMT -8
A more lighthearted COVID-19 and BC Ferries related thing was pointed by some online:
Umm... clear graphic design fail...
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Neil
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Posts: 7,151
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Post by Neil on Nov 21, 2020 11:01:46 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 21, 2020 11:42:11 GMT -8
I don't know... maybe I'm too innocent, because at first I really didn't see anything amiss. In any event, they're changing it. Much ado about nothing ... It was the same with the 'swastika' propeller graphics on the Coastal class when they arrived from Germany.
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dave2
Chief Steward
Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
Posts: 155
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Post by dave2 on Nov 29, 2020 8:42:57 GMT -8
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Post by northwesterner on Nov 30, 2020 15:18:39 GMT -8
Shocking. Perhaps, when you waive a rule for six months, people realize that its not really about safety. Either it is unsafe to spend the voyage in your car on an enclosed car deck, or it is reasonably safe to do so. The actual, ultimate safety of these passengers actions has not changed from June until now.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 30, 2020 22:25:47 GMT -8
Shocking. Perhaps, when you waive a rule for six months, people realize that its not really about safety. Either it is unsafe to spend the voyage in your car on an enclosed car deck, or it is reasonably safe to do so. The actual, ultimate safety of these passengers actions has not changed from June until now. Hard to come down firmly on either side of this issue. The world wide standard for a long time now has been to forbid passengers staying in vehicles on enclosed car decks. One can understand that, given the dangers from enclosed fires, collisions, and access to evacuation options. Still, with BC Ferries, we never had an adherence to that regulation, and one could argue that with the exception of the Queen of Victoria incident in 1970, and obviously, Queen of The North, there was no reason to invoke it on our relatively sheltered coastal routes. The COVID dangers are clearly so much more in people's minds, and maybe should be forefront on TC's agenda as well. But every week this pandemic goes on, there are more wrinkles in our daily lives that complicate things, and this situation is a part of that.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 30, 2020 23:17:26 GMT -8
Hard to come down firmly on either side of this issue. The world wide standard for a long time now has been to forbid passengers staying in vehicles on enclosed car decks. One can understand that, given the dangers from enclosed fires, collisions, and access to evacuation options. Still, with BC Ferries, we never had an adherence to that regulation, and one could argue that with the exception of the Queen of Victoria incident in 1970, and obviously, Queen of The North, there was no reason to invoke it on our relatively sheltered coastal routes. The COVID dangers are clearly so much more in people's minds, and maybe should be forefront on TC's agenda as well. But every week this pandemic goes on, there are more wrinkles in our daily lives that complicate things, and this situation is a part of that. Neil, you should add to your list the two engine room fire incidents ( Q Victoria & Q Surrey) that very easily could have resulted in fire & exploding gas tanks on the main car deck. It is that fire risk that I believe is the most important reason for keeping people out of enclosed lower car decks. Would you want crew members risking their own lives to try and rescue passengers sleeping in their cars?
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Neil
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Posts: 7,151
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Post by Neil on Dec 1, 2020 20:35:15 GMT -8
Hard to come down firmly on either side of this issue. The world wide standard for a long time now has been to forbid passengers staying in vehicles on enclosed car decks. One can understand that, given the dangers from enclosed fires, collisions, and access to evacuation options. Still, with BC Ferries, we never had an adherence to that regulation, and one could argue that with the exception of the Queen of Victoria incident in 1970, and obviously, Queen of The North, there was no reason to invoke it on our relatively sheltered coastal routes. The COVID dangers are clearly so much more in people's minds, and maybe should be forefront on TC's agenda as well. But every week this pandemic goes on, there are more wrinkles in our daily lives that complicate things, and this situation is a part of that. Neil, you should add to your list the two engine room fire incidents ( Q Victoria & Q Surrey) that very easily could have resulted in fire & exploding gas tanks on the main car deck. It is that fire risk that I believe is the most important reason for keeping people out of enclosed lower car decks. Would you want crew members risking their own lives to try and rescue passengers sleeping in their cars? I certainly wouldn't. I'm just thinking of the relative dangers, and the extraordinary times we're living in. To me, it's not an easy call... I get both sides of the argument.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Dec 4, 2020 12:54:15 GMT -8
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Mar 8, 2021 18:39:11 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 8, 2021 21:24:57 GMT -8
The idea of things getting back to normal is... that things get back to normal. If you've been following events in New Zealand, you know that the bars are operating and people are gathering at football games. Covid19 is not a supernaturally strong destructor of humanity. With vaccines, and if people fully buy in to consistent regulations and modes of behaviour, we can eventually- hopefully soon- get back to buffets, packed hockey rinks, and all the other important and not so important aspects of human interaction. That's the goal... not a constant mindset that the person six feet in front of you is a potential viral menace.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Mar 8, 2021 23:36:34 GMT -8
The idea of things getting back to normal is... that things get back to normal. If you've been following events in New Zealand, you know that the bars are operating and people are gathering at football games. Covid19 is not a supernaturally strong destructor of humanity. With vaccines, and if people fully buy in to consistent regulations and modes of behaviour, we can eventually- hopefully soon- get back to buffets, packed hockey rinks, and all the other important and not so important aspects of human interaction. That's the goal... not a constant mindset that the person six feet in front of you is a potential viral menace. There things that cannot go back to normal because of spreading illnesses to people in certain indoor environments. I think BC Ferries should take opportunity to examine amenities on major vessels to see if they can be easily modified to help reduce spread of disease and viruses. Things that I can see being improvements in the new normal for example the buffet could change stuff getting passenger food or full service restaurant but same price as buffet for all three course, the cafeteria could stay the same with the stuff getting drinks for the passengers, play area could changed to surfaces that help reduce spread of germs and getting rid of doors to play area. Why these amenities are easily change because they are big or more open to rest of vessel. While, the SeaWest lounges may now be hard to justify the small space on the vessel and May not hae enough people to justify it because of lack of turnover of passengers.
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