Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Apr 16, 2008 17:10:51 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 16, 2008 17:11:17 GMT -8
Since 1960 inflation has been in the order of 1000%, I believe. As evidence of that the stamp collectors around will know that a first class Canada Post stamp that would send a letter across the country cost 5c in 1960. To mail the same letter today it is 52c, I think.
Other examples - your common chocolate bar was 10c in 1965, a weekday copy of the Victoria Times newspaper was 8c.
$3,000,000 in 1960 would build you a ferry carrying 100 cars and 750 passengers. $125,000,000 today buys you a Coast Boat carrying 370 cars and about 1600 passengers.
BTW, I am fairly sure that the $5.00 auto fare on BCF in 1960 did not include the fare for the driver. The fares were $5.00 for a standard car, $2.00 adult (12 years & over) including driver, $1.00 for ages 5 to 11. At that time there were no reduced rates for seniors. As such, the one way fare on route 1 or 2 for a family of four (mom, dad, johnny aged 8 and his big sister Suzie, aged 13) would be $12. Translated into today's currency - $100 or $120.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 16, 2008 18:04:33 GMT -8
Interesting to note, if min wage was .75 cents and a fare was $2 the ferry, for a minimum wage earner a crossing is more affordable now.... How numbers can lie .75 cents is less than one percent of $2. How about taking a leap of faith an assuming that the poster meant "75 cents"?
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Post by Starsteward on Apr 16, 2008 18:14:08 GMT -8
I stand corrected, the 1960's fare was $ 5.00 for the car and $2.00 for the driver. I should know better as I was working on route 2 at the time, back in the days when the Sechelt Queen was a novelty on the run as we waited anxiously for the new 'V' Queens to roll out of the yards at VMD and Burrard Dry Dock, One of these days I'll photgraph one of the original dining room menus complete with prices so that the debate on wages/costs, then and now will take on a culinary perspective
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Post by Dane on Apr 16, 2008 20:57:39 GMT -8
Interesting to note, if min wage was .75 cents and a fare was $2 the ferry, for a minimum wage earner a crossing is more affordable now.... How numbers can lie .75 cents is less than one percent of $2. .75 cents it the way we write out the amount seventy-five cents for gov't docu's, it's just a practise I follow out of habit; it's sort of a safety to determine the denomination where there may be complexities. Not sure if it's govt wide or just where I work - we're pretty wierd.
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Post by Balfour on Apr 16, 2008 21:29:43 GMT -8
I stand corrected, the 1960's fare was $ 5.00 for the car and $2.00 for the driver. I should know better as I was working on route 2 at the time, back in the days when the Sechelt Queen was a novelty on the run as we waited anxiously for the new 'V' Queens to roll out of the yards at VMD and Burrard Dry Dock, One of these days I'll photgraph one of the original dining room menus complete with prices so that the debate on wages/costs, then and now will take on a culinary perspective I intend on seeing it soon then! For both the benefit of this topic and for the nostalgia factor as well.
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Post by kerryssi on Apr 18, 2008 12:37:57 GMT -8
Back in 1965 I was making $4.00/hour working in the mill in Victoria. I don't know about ferry fares then but I do remember 10 cent beer, 20 cents for a large one. $2.00 for a case. $4.00 would fill the tank on my '65 TR4A. It looks like 1.5 hrs of work would get me and my car from SWB to TSA.
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 19, 2008 12:33:35 GMT -8
I traveled to Quadra & Cortes Island this weekend, with a vehicle & 2 pax.
The gross fare was $67.65.
However, we used our CoastExperience card, and so our discounted price was $44.80. We saved $22.85.
The CoastExperience card is so much better than the old paper tickets, because they aren't so limited to specific routes. We use our CoastExperience card for vacations to gulf-islands, work trips to SaltSpring and family visit to Powell River.
I like that they show the savings clearly on the ticket receipt. (of course, they don't show an historical comparison of fare for the past 10 years.... ;D)
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on May 19, 2008 15:06:30 GMT -8
I think the card's a great innovation, since, unlike the 'sailpass' you don't have to take a certain number of rides before it pays off. And the savings can be considerable.
Did you and your wife each have a card, or did one card apply to the holder, vehicle, and passenger?
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 19, 2008 17:44:53 GMT -8
Did you and your wife each have a card, or did one card apply to the holder, vehicle, and passenger? We only have 1 card, and it's in my wife's name. But I got to hand the card to the terminal-worker, and it was a simple swipe, no check of the name registered on the card. So I think the ownership of the card isn't an issue, except in cases where the registered owner loses the card and get the old balance transferred to a new one. So the 1 card was used to pay the full fare of our small party (which was 1 car & 2 people ). Apparently BCFS is working on getting swipe-readers for use at the "cash only" terminals at Heriot Bay (and also presumably at Gravelly Bay), for those few people who would want to pay a fare at that terminal. But I still see the throughfare-payment as being the most commonly used ticket purchase for those going on 2 successive ferries to get to the 2nd island.
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Post by ruddernut on May 19, 2008 18:33:46 GMT -8
Tomorrow fares go up on all routes. It's going to cost almost another 50 cents to walk on on the major routes and another dollar to take your car. A 150 lb person vs. a 2500 lb car? The proportions don't seem right. Come on! Anyways, is it any surprise to anyone, since gas prices are so high now? I'm sure you'd be complaining just as loudly if you had to fill your car to drive across the Strait.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 19, 2008 18:44:23 GMT -8
I can see BC Ferries bonds being pulled right from under them at any moment.
#2, [rant] DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON GAS PRICES! THEY'RE FREAKING OUTRAGEOUS AND ITS JUST NOTHING MORE THAN FOR PROFIT AND WE STILL GET TO PAY FOR IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER! I DONT LIKE IT ONE LITTLE BIT![/rant]
#3, complaining has always worked. Just bug them to the breaking point.
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Post by Mike C on May 20, 2008 8:31:50 GMT -8
#2, [rant] DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON GAS PRICES! THEY'RE FREAKING OUTRAGEOUS AND ITS JUST NOTHING MORE THAN FOR PROFIT AND WE STILL GET TO PAY FOR IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER! I DONT LIKE IT ONE LITTLE BIT![/rant] You don't even drive, Dan...
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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 20, 2008 16:04:33 GMT -8
A full tank costs alot and with the budget already being squeezed, that ruins my time to get up to British Columbia. Since travel is not cheap anymore, I can care since it ruins my travel lifestyle.
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Post by ruddernut on May 20, 2008 16:11:30 GMT -8
Reasons to avoid Canada:
1. Canadian dollar is on par with US$.
2. Gas is even more bloody expensive here.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on May 23, 2008 11:39:15 GMT -8
from a Hornby Island website, "Word of Mouth"... ALL ISLANDS ROCK THE BOAT FERRY RALLY JULY 4TH,2008Category: bc words, hornby words, word up! - events. Posted by Peter at 10:36 pm. submitted by Michelle Easterly AHOY B.C FERRY USERS AND OTHER CONCERNED CANADIANS, Direct action individuals from Hornby and Denman Islands have formed the Rock the Boat Coalition. We are faced with the challenge of organizing the “organizers list ” from all B.C. Ferry dependent communities thru out BC. A Call to Action letter, website and contact individuals will follow this explanation below. We are doing our best to just email people at this time who will help organize the rallies on all the Islands and dependent communities. IF you know people who in your community would like to get on Board with us, please help us . If you have been put on this list in error , our apologies. Please let us know and please pass it on to those on your Islands and communities who may be able to join in to help organize this day of solidarity .We all know how the ferry fares and privatization of ferry fares and essential services are affecting our communities and our friends and businesses. Please remember, everyone can play a part. If those of you, who cannot attend a rally would like to be of supportyou might help organize a local phone tree, help with placards, theatre or music or provide other support. Please reply by email and call us.. LETS ROCK THE BOAT!! ROCK THE BOAT! - JULY 4th CALL OUT Ahoy Ferry Riders, We know you’re frustrated and upset with the BC Ferries Corporation and the politicians and bureaucrats that stand behind it. Over the last couple of months, Hornby, Denman, Quadra and Gabriola have gotten the ball rolling with ferry protests on their respective islands. Now it’s time to up the ante. Our plan is to put together a major action for Friday, July 4. In order to maximize its impact with the Ferries bigwigs, the politicians, and the media, we’d like it to involve all of the BC ferry dependent communities acting in solidarity to mount a variety of rallies, protests, informational campaigns, parades, and festive ways of getting our message across. Our demands are: - Roll Back The Fares on Our Marine Highway - Free Fares for Walk-Ons - Free Fares for Bicyclists - Environmental Discount for High Occupancy Vehicles (HOVs) - Free parking at ferry terminals linked to ride shares/public transit - The right to choose whether to use the new “convenience” card or continue to use the old paper tickets - Less money spent on corporate marketing and administrative costs/more spent on essential services - Increased government subsidization of BC Ferries and concern for the growing hardships visited upon local routes. The BC Ferries Corporation board of directors just voted themselves handsome raises. In contrast, before privatization took place, politicians once considered the island ferry routes to be comparable to our highways and subsidized them accordingly. We invite you to mount a peaceful and safe protest on your island, on Friday July 4 , invite the media, make it clear that we’re fed up with rising fares, environmentally unsound ridership policies, and make sure to have fun doing it! In solidarity, Rock The Boat Coalition THIS PAGE FERRY FARES UPDATE LINK: www.willthomasonline.net/willthomasonline/Rock_The_Boat.html
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Post by ruddernut on May 23, 2008 11:59:04 GMT -8
Our demands are: - Roll Back The Fares on Our Marine Highway - Free Fares for Walk-Ons - Free Fares for Bicyclists - Environmental Discount for High Occupancy Vehicles (HOVs) - Free parking at ferry terminals linked to ride shares/public transit - The right to choose whether to use the new “convenience” card or continue to use the old paper tickets - Less money spent on corporate marketing and administrative costs/more spent on essential services - Increased government subsidization of BC Ferries and concern for the growing hardships visited upon local routes. As marine highways, they should be subsidized as much as any other stretch of highway of similar distance and traffic volume. Shortfalls should be compensated for with fares and/or additional taxes in communities that rely on them.
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Post by ferrytraveller on May 23, 2008 12:18:14 GMT -8
i agree with you ruddernut, and i believe thats how the SoCred government meant BCFC to be when it was started back 1960.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on May 23, 2008 13:07:05 GMT -8
i agree with you ruddernut, and i believe thats how the SoCred government meant BCFC to be when it was started back 1960. No, they didn't. Ferry routes have always been subsidized far more than comparable stretches of highways; it's always been understood that marine links are more expensive than roads, and that is what we deal with in being a coastal province. If such a formula were employed in Alaska, the panhandle would be bankrupt and de-populated in no time, since their subsidy is almost as large as BC Ferries', yet their ferries transport about 400,000 people annually, compared to BC's 20-plus million. If the one mile between Buckley Bay and Denman Island were subsidized the same as a mile in the Okanagan, there would be virtually no subsidy, and an island community would be devastated. BC Ferries makes about 80% of it's costs back from revenues. Land transit in the lower mainland returns about half that. Apples and oranges again, perhaps, but more valid than an arbitrary mile for mile comparison. But haven't we done this argument about a hundred times before?
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Post by ruddernut on May 23, 2008 13:24:40 GMT -8
i agree with you ruddernut, and i believe thats how the SoCred government meant BCFC to be when it was started back 1960. No, they didn't. Ferry routes have always been subsidized far more than comparable stretches of highways; it's always been understood that marine links are more expensive than roads, and that is what we deal with in being a coastal province. If such a formula were employed in Alaska, the panhandle would be bankrupt and de-populated in no time, since their subsidy is almost as large as BC Ferries', yet their ferries transport about 400,000 people annually, compared to BC's 20-plus million. If the one mile between Buckley Bay and Denman Island were subsidized the same as a mile in the Okanagan, there would be virtually no subsidy, and an island community would be devastated. Maybe the free market, instead of socialism, should decide whether people live in those places and how many. If there were enough resources to make living there economically viable given the costs, they would. What interest do those in the Okanagan have in the ferries running on BC's coast, for instance? BC Ferries makes about 80% of it's costs back from revenues. Land transit in the lower mainland returns about half that. Apples and oranges again, perhaps, but more valid than an arbitrary mile for mile comparison. The cost of land transit in the Lower Mainland is mostly covered by Lower Mainlanders, no? What's more, local land transit discourages and serves as an alternative for automobile use. Car ferries support it.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on May 23, 2008 15:14:55 GMT -8
Maybe the free market, instead of socialism, should decide whether people live in those places and how many. If there were enough resources to make living there economically viable given the costs, they would. What interest do those in the Okanagan have in the ferries running on BC's coast, for instance? Ah yes, the Milton Friedman view of socio-economics, where everything has a price, and nothing has a value. Can't argue with the omnipotence and perfect logic of the free market, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.
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Post by ruddernut on May 23, 2008 16:28:11 GMT -8
Maybe the free market, instead of socialism, should decide whether people live in those places and how many. If there were enough resources to make living there economically viable given the costs, they would. What interest do those in the Okanagan have in the ferries running on BC's coast, for instance? Ah yes, the Milton Friedman view of socio-economics, where everything has a price, and nothing has a value. The question then becomes, value to whom? Should the rest of the province subsidize the luxury of some remote islanders to "get away from it all"?
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Post by ruddernut on May 23, 2008 22:59:55 GMT -8
- Free Fares for Walk-Ons As much as I'd like to see a drop in passenger fares in comparison to car fares, making it free would be an invitation for dirty, scraggly, smelly, creepy bums to crawl onboard, and relentlessly harass all the other passengers for change, and other abusers of the system.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 23, 2008 23:19:09 GMT -8
Neil, from Reply #22, I would propose rolling back fares to make the comparable to the Washington State system. Vary fares in between seasons for destinations like we do on the state system. I would only charge a toonie maximum on bicycles. We add $1 for bikes. HOV cars I do not think is the answer though. Cards are best I believe instead of paper tickets. We've moved to electronic and I believe is better. Less money for marketing and administration is the only thing on that list I will 100% agree with due to the fact that a ferry board should not be paid more than your average joe. People who care about them should run it not people who are doing it for the money who do not know what the system needs. Government subsidies definitely need to increase in order to keep fares in check.
Ruddernut, I think that is a very extreme view to take in regards to free fares. Unless you are expecting everyone to wear suits and ties when they ride ferries and read the local newspaper.
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 24, 2008 3:20:29 GMT -8
- Free Fares for Walk-Ons As much as I'd like to see a drop in passenger fares in comparison to car fares, making it free would be an invitation for dirty, scraggly, smelly, creepy bums to crawl onboard, and relentlessly harass all the other passengers for change, and other abusers of the system. The moderators of this forum discussed the exact same issue, re membership to this ferry discussion forum. In the end, we decided that free & open membership here was better, even if we had to put-up with the occasional harassing or annoying poster.
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