Temporary Replacement for this Summer up North?

[pictues]

Couldn't BC Ferries if they are unable to find a sutible replacement ship for this summers tourist season on the inside passage route , which Hahn has said they need for this summer, couldn;t they temporarily put the fast cats back in service between departure bay and horseshie bay, put the Oak bay on the tswassan-Swartz BAy run and put one the the Spirit Class ships (the Spirit of BC or Vancouver Island) un the Prince Rupert-Port Hardy run for the summer until they build a new ship for the run?

[Curtis]

That wouldn't be a good idea they need the Spirits on route 1 since the V Class are too small and the Oaky is needed at Departure Bay, the Spirits are only able to be used at Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay and the Northern Sector of BCF doesn't have enough people to fill 470 cars spaces and 2100 passengers on the Inside Passage.
(Edit) The way to go would be to use a ferry like the Queen of Burnaby or Nanaimo with modifications to work there. except what would replace them

[Quinsam]

Yeah, afraid that is too true, maybe a Coho type vessel?
The V class are not too small, they are 4 meters bigger than the QOTN, and the only problem with running V's, C's and S's up there is because the bow is not suited to the docks.

[Low Light Mike]

The only ships that were certified (or close to certified) for northern service were the 3: Q-North, QPR, and ChillyWack.

There are special rules for northern routes, because of open water up there.

"Ocean Going Vessel" is a specified term, and the Spirits, V's, and C's, and K's etc don't meet that definition.

So it's absolutely not an option to put a Spirit or a V or a C on the Port Hardy - Prince Rupert run.

[tyty]

Yeah. If BCF does not acquire a used ship from another operator, the only feasible option that I can see is using the Queen of Chillwack in the Inside Passage.

Now, I don't know what the status of the John Atlantic Burr is, but that gives BCF another minor vessel. If they can get her (him? haha) running before summer, perhaps she can replace the Nimpkish on her former route, allowing her to continue what she is doing at present -- connecting Klemtu, Shearwater, and Ocean Falls with Bella Bella.

The Discovery Coast service as we know it would have to be suspended, meaning no service to Bella Coola (they have a road, anyway). Hence what you would have is the same arrangement that was in place just prior to the Queen of the North's sinking -- the Prince Rupert-Port Hardy ship stopping only at McLoughlin Bay to connect with the Nimpkish.

The Queen of Prince Rupert, of course, would spend this summer doing what she usually does -- exclusive service between Rupert and Skidegate. Obviously this vessel is better suited for the wide open Hecate Strait than the Queen of Chilliwack will ever be.

All they need to do with the Chillwack is have her do daytime trips, which would mean less demand for staterooms. With only the one stop mid-way, travel time should still be OK (although her operating speed is a bit slower than the QON).

Perhaps start sailings from either end at 6 or 7 a.m. for an arrival at the other end just after midnight the next day?

If I were among the powers that be at BCF and it appeared to me that aquisition of a suitable replacement for the QON was unfeasible, I would promote this plan.

[Mike C]

For the summer, what if they put the QPR on Inside Passage /Skidegate-PR y, and the Chilly to be the main vessel on Inside Passage and cut off all Discovery Coast passage fully until the new vessel arrives? However, in order for this to work, they'll either A) have to continue to run the Nimpkish; or B) make the Inside Passage vessel to work on the Mid-Coast? Think about it, I want to hear feedback.

[tyty]

If the Chillwack were to become the Inside Passage vessel, she is capable of docking at all Mid-Coast ports. The only problem is that having her make more than one stop would make the trip between Prince Rupert and Port Hardy SO long that people would be demanding staterooms and other amenities the Queen of Chillwack simply doesn't have and may not ever get.

Of course, they could schedule the QPR to work on both the Skidegate and Inside Passage runs. Perhaps instead of six trips to the Charlottes, she could do four and perhaps one trip down to Port Hardy and back each week. This would relieve some pressure off the Chillwack with its longer sailing times compared to the QON.

[Quinsam]

Why not the Chilliwack on PR-Skidegate, and the QPR on PR-PH?

[Queen of Nanaimo Teen]

there is no other vessel that can service prince rupert-skidegate, correct? that means the only possibility for the inside passage is the wack. But the wack can't do it because it doesn't have staterooms. how is bc ferries going to solve this problem? can they borrow a ferry from the ALaska state ferries?

[Political Incorrectness]

welwyn said:

Why not the Chilliwack on PR-Skidegate, and the QPR on PR-PH?

Depends if the Chilliwak can meet Transport Canada Requirements for going through Hectare Strait but I doubt it cause waves reach 10 meters high there. The Prince Rupert has handeled waves before but after this sinkng of the North and no results of the investigation have come out yet, we still have to wait.

[tyty]

Yeah, the QPR has the proper bow to handle the waves in Hecate Strait; the Queen of Chillwack clearly does not.

We know the Chilliwack is approved for crossing Queen Charlotte Sound north of Port Hardy because it does that for the Discovery Coast service. The only other challenge would be Millbank Sound, which is quite small. Otherwise, she would do fine in the Inside Passage.

The QPR is more suited for the longer Inside Passage route in terms of amenities, but the fact that the Chilliwack probably wouldn't be able to handle Hecate Strait in high seas rules out her placement on the PR-Skidegate run.

The Chilliwack would do fine on the Inside Passage service if (1) She did daytime cruises; and (2) they were somehow able to increase passenger comfort without having to go through the massive task of adding staterooms (which I can't see happening).

Still, finding another ship from outside the existing BCF fleet might be the best solution.

[Mike C]

I've been on the Chilly and it does, in fact, have staterooms. However it's low capacity might not work. There is an alternative to staterooms, and that's the reclining seat lounge. This oversized barge will probably do the Inside Passage in 25 hours.

[tyty]

Oh, ok... I was not aware the Queen of Chillwack had staterooms. Well, with daytime sailings there wouldn't be as much demand for them as overnight trips and yeah, I was thinking maybe enhancing the reclining seating (like, adding more).

But 25 hours? The Chilly's service speed is 14 knots; the North was 19. Could five knots over that much distance increase the total trip time THAT much?

[Mike C]

19 knots for the North? I thought it was 20.3.

Let's do the math: If the North can travel at about 20 knots and it can do the trip in 15 hours, and the QPR does 18 knots, and it does it in 20 hours how long will a 14 knot ferry to do Route 10? (I admit, I did make a mistake on my math part)

Does anyone know what the total distance is on the Inside Passage? If so, we could figure out (using my math class skills) the exact crossing time from point A (being Port Hardy) to point B (being Prince Rupert). I'll plug it into what my math teacher calls it "your weapons of math destruction" and we can settle this.

[Neil]

If they don't manage to purchase something by this summer, it's pretty clear that it will have to be the Queen of Chilliwack, despite her unsuitability, on the Inside Passage, with the QPR mainly on the Charlottes. QPR could still do six trips a week to Skidegate if they had her do a couple of round trips in a 30 hour period, and do one trip to Port Hardy to help out the Chilliwack. I don't believe the Tachek is used regularly in the summer, so it could be available for a feeder service on the central coast from Bella Bella, either replacing or supplementing the ridiculously inadequate Nimpkish. But I'm sure BC Ferries is not relishing the prospect of trying to keep Inside Passage tourists comfortable on the Chilliwack, which would probably need 20 hours to do the route.

[Mike C]

I've come up with a schedule;

Queen of Chilliwack, Lv. PH/PR Daily: 10:30 am Ar. PR/PH Daily: 6:30 am Next Day

Queen of Prince Rupert, Lv. PR M-F: 7:00 am, Ar. Skidegate M-F: 2:00 pm; Lv. Skidegate: 3:00 pm M-F, Ar. PR: 11:00 pm

Queen of Prince Rupert, Lv. PR/PH Sa-Su: 12:00 pm, Ar. PR/PH Sa-Su: 6:00 am Next Day

[Ferryman]

mainlander101 said:

Let's do the math: If the North can travel at about 20 knots and it can do the trip in 15 hours, and the QPR does 18 knots, and it does it in 20 hours how long will a 14 knot ferry to do Route 10? (I admit, I did make a mistake on my math part)

Looks like you add another 5 hours to the route, for every 2 knots you take off of the speed. So the Chilliwack is 4 knots slower than the Rupert, so add another 10 hours to the time the North can do it in. The end result would be a group of tired angry passengers who were stuck on the Queen of Chilliwack for 30 hours.

[Dane]

20.3 Knots LOL? Thats very specific. The general cruising speed was in excess of 20 knots... they said 21 at the time of the accident. It's highly variable as you can tell on other routes by the varied crossing times, esp. up North where the currents, winds, and waves are an even more present factor.

I'd be suprised, but pleased, if BCFS could find a replacement vessel that Transport Canada will allow. Apparently the new strict Regs don't come into effect until 2007, so maybe they could act now and just face a media storm.

[Curtis]

ferryman said:

mainlander101 said:

Let's do the math: If the North can travel at about 20 knots and it can do the trip in 15 hours, and the QPR does 18 knots, and it does it in 20 hours how long will a 14 knot ferry to do Route 10? (I admit, I did make a mistake on my math part)

Looks like you add another 5 hours to the route, for every 2 knots you take off of the speed. So the Chilliwack is 4 knots slower than the Rupert, so add another 10 hours to the time the North can do it in. The end result would be a group of tired angry passengers who were stuck on the Queen of Chilliwack for 30 hours.

The Chilliwack still manages to do Saltery Bay-Earls Cove in 50 Minutes and the Tsawwassen goes 18 Knots so since she has to turn around she takes 50 minutes as well. I don't think it would be that long for her to do the route since she's a double ender

[CN2972South]

pictues said:

Couldn't BC Ferries if they are unable to find a sutible replacement ship for this summers tourist season on the inside passage route , which Hahn has said they need for this summer, couldn;t they temporarily put the fast cats back in service between departure bay and horseshie bay, put the Oak bay on the tswassan-Swartz BAy run and put one the the Spirit Class ships (the Spirit of BC or Vancouver Island) un the Prince Rupert-Port Hardy run for the summer until they build a new ship for the run?

I dunno about you but I wouldn't want to be on the one of the Superferries for an overnight ferry trip. They're not meant to handle passengers on overnight trips.

[Quinsam]

The Spirit's do have staterooms.

[Balfour]

yeah but only like 4 or 5.

[Curtis]

Yeah to Handle the Inside Passage they would need to get rid of the Conference Room and Part of the Upper Passenger Deck to handle the people who want Cabins

[Balfour]

prqueenkid16 said:

Yeah to Handle the Inside Passage they would need to get rid of the Conference Room and Part of the Upper Passenger Deck to handle the people who want Cabins

There's also the Upper car deck that they could convert.

[Curtis]

Yeah that as well That could fit the crew and the Passengers