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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 5, 2007 9:20:56 GMT -8
If the ends are just as wide as a Spirit or not as wide yes.
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Post by shipyard on Aug 5, 2007 9:29:54 GMT -8
Just speculating on another possible advantage to a Coastal on Rt. 30- Perhaps having two identical ships based within close proximity to one another would create flexibilty with crewing issues. Any crew based out of Nanaimo, spare or otherwise, could be certified for either ship, provided they keep them the same as years go by.
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Post by Hardy on Aug 5, 2007 16:01:50 GMT -8
Total speculation, but what about this. Three Coastal class vessels really does seem like a weird number to have. Ferries should push that third boat around to see how it handles on all potential runs. I may not have made this clear in earlier posts, but I too think that it is a good idea to rotate the Coastals thru the major routes as part of the "welcome to the fleet" procedure. As you say, get any potential bugs worked out on any certain runs ASAP, and get any mods fixed on follow on ships. Heck, have it run Rte-3 even for a day to give the Sunshine Coasters a taste. Even though it would be "too much boat" for this route, making sure that it can mate up in Langdale correctly is not a bad thing in case it or a follow on needs to be placed on that run due to fleet rotation. As part of it's trials, have it bump docks on Rte-9 out of Tsawwassen. Definately "too much boat" but if you want to validate a design and have true all-route interoperability, then a cruise thru the SGI is in order. Plus look at the PR value of rotating her thru all the major routes -- expect a huge draw -- major reservation blitz and all kinds of revenue for BCFS. Not a bad thing. Chances of a Coastal class ending up on Rte-3 or Rte-9 are slim to none, except in an emergency fill in, but having the knowledge that these boats can handle the facilities and geography of these routes is invaluable information up front. Computer models and projections notwithstanding, bumping dock and thrashing water are the only ways to be sure in the real world.
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Post by Hardy on Aug 5, 2007 16:23:16 GMT -8
Mr. Taylor of BC Ferries is telling employees the first vessel is still going to Departure Bay (old news) but here is a change second is now going to Duke Point (he stated as of July 31st). The reason because of the large main deck the super can hold more trucks. BCFS managers are worried that being both new vessel to route 2 would mean more truckers will choose route 2 instead of route 30. New west is getting route 1 make over so it can carry more trucks on this route. COW(1) and Ablrine(30) both out of Tswassen. Nothing is in stone and change again next month. The "stick" that BCFS has used to try to keep trucks using Rte-30 has been the "commercial vehicle surcharge that they apply during the summer. All that "the revenue generators" would have to do to discourage trucks further is just increase the per foot costs year round. This should effectively limit the truck and commercial traffic on this route. This would fit right in with all the other surcharges that occur at BCFS. They could also start charging reservation fees for commercial vehicles travelling Rte-2 to further discourage truck use. Please note that I am NOT a proponent of this approach, as there are several times when it is more efficient to use Rte-2 rather than Rte-30 depending on where my pickups/deliveries are. As for capacity on various routes, I do believe that Rte-2 needs additional capacity. 2 Coastals on this route would definately address the capacity issue, but how would this work out for other routes? I suppose this remains to be seen. I can see part of the wisdom of adding a Coastal to Rte-30 as far as capacity goes, but I am still baffled by putting the NewWest on Rte-1. As is stated, the Spirits seem to swallow up OH traffic fairly well, and I personally have not experienced a capacity issue on Rte-1 for trucks other than busy winter sailings (where a 1 sailing wait sucks!). I just don't see the wisdom of this yet. Perhaps I can be convinced later on, but I am on the fence about this one big time.
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Post by hergfest on Aug 5, 2007 20:03:21 GMT -8
Someone brought up a good point, wouldn't the Duke Point berth need to be modified for a Coastal? They had to modify Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Aug 5, 2007 20:09:52 GMT -8
Someone brought up a good point, wouldn't the Duke Point berth need to be modified for a Coastal? They had to modify Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay. I don't think so... There is no wingwalls facing Northumberland Channel, so it should be able to accommodate a larger ship without any prior modification...
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Post by blackshadow on Aug 6, 2007 9:45:01 GMT -8
Yes, they will be making changes at Duke Point. I have seen the budget amount for the work to be done. The amount isn't high for just same reason as Scott pointed out.
Remember it is goverment and majors that don't want truck traffic on route 2 and but forget of people whom live in the area. You should here about the complaints of just having the ships docked at Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay at night.
For past couple of years truckers/trucking companys are getting very pissed off with BCFS for 2-3 sailing waits for trucks much of the time. Some trucking companys have gone to Seaspan. Now think really hard why BCFS wants to increase. My brother inlaw is one of those trucks pissed much of the time and I get ear full very time he calls or visits. He will at times take route 30 as less of wait or route 1 full for day by 6 pm, then drive back to Victoria. If he does this have many other truckers do. ...
Hardy, I work for BCFS and I don't understand things too.
I remember while working for Marine Atlantic, we bent over backwards for truckers because they were our stead business. Maybe BCFS managers are finally getting this through their thick heads.
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Post by Hardy on Aug 6, 2007 22:35:12 GMT -8
blackshadow: if BCFS gave a fiddlers-flock about truck drivers and commercial traffic, they would have pulled a boat from somewhere to service Rte-30 today. I had better see someone at BCFS doing something about running a second boat on Rte-30 for Tuesday. I have already sent several faxes over to the BCTA (BC Trucking Assoc) regarding this "2nd class treatment". Seaspan is only an alternative for trailers, and unattended truck traffic. For those of us running straight trucks, or loads that must remain in our control (ie household goods, or direct-to-home deliveries, etc), we have no choice other than BCFS.
As for future vessel placement, I will have to take a wait and see approach and will not commit one way or the other until we see who/what is assigned where and for how long. Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled to see a Coastal running Rte-30, but why have the New West as a secondary boat on Rte-1 when it is more or less designed for Rte-30? This is yet another case of one cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
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Ferryman
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Post by Ferryman on Aug 8, 2007 10:00:58 GMT -8
Here's a message I recieved this morning from a friend of mine who works on the Nanaimo routes, to add to all of the confustion.
The Coastal Celebration is going to replace the Alberni at Duke Point, and the Alberni will go to the Tsawwassan side on Route 30. The Oak Bay will stay on Route 2 at Horseshoe Bay, while the "modified" Cowichan (gallery decks removed) moves south to replace the Vancouver or Saanich. The Inspiration will also be on the Swartz Bay side. Buh bye V class
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Post by blackshadow on Aug 8, 2007 10:19:09 GMT -8
Hardy: If BCFS doesn't give fiddlers-flock why are they going spent money of V class and modified Cowichan if they are not thinking about. The last word I got for management end of July Sanich is still schedule to become a truck only ferry with it's own route. oops I let sercet out of the bag.
There were more to just moving ship from one place to another. One must look at bigger picture. I have not control over how BCFS runs their vessels, I just try to keep them running. BCFS has been great deal for those who had booked sailings on route 30 and made extra sailings on route 2 help. BCFS has paid greatly for this break down.
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Post by Curtis on Aug 8, 2007 11:12:19 GMT -8
Here's a message I recieved this morning from a friend of mine who works on the Nanaimo routes, to add to all of the confustion. The Coastal Celebration is going to replace the Alberni at Duke Point, and the Alberni will go to the Tsawwassan side on Route 30. The Oak Bay will stay on Route 2 at Horseshoe Bay, while the "modified" Cowichan (gallery decks removed) moves south to replace the Vancouver or Saanich. The Inspiration will also be on the Swartz Bay side. Buh bye V classFrom what I'm hearing throughout this topic, I'll believe it when I see it.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 8, 2007 11:35:21 GMT -8
From what I have heard, nothing is certain at this point in time.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Aug 8, 2007 12:52:49 GMT -8
The last word I got for management end of July Sanich is still schedule to become a truck only ferry with it's own route. oops I let sercet out of the bag. Why would they make the 'Saanich a 'truck only' ferry, and waste the entire upper car deck?
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Post by Hardy on Aug 8, 2007 19:59:37 GMT -8
Here's a message I recieved this morning from a friend of mine who works on the Nanaimo routes, to add to all of the confustion. The Coastal Celebration is going to replace the Alberni at Duke Point, and the Alberni will go to the Tsawwassan side on Route 30. The Oak Bay will stay on Route 2 at Horseshoe Bay, while the "modified" Cowichan (gallery decks removed) moves south to replace the Vancouver or Saanich. The Inspiration will also be on the Swartz Bay side. Buh bye V classThe Alberni now? ?.?.?.?.? Okay, I thought that this was being talked about with the New West moving 30-1? Odd, I would have thought that the Alberni with it's refit would have stayed put on 30. Why else would they have added the amenities and the showers in the MLU? I am not disputing the veracity of your friend's claim, it would just seem that the information may be jumbled a little -- after all, if they were going to pull one of the 30 vessels, it would most likely be the NW and not the Alb, what with the MLU and all. Then again, I cannot see the wisdom of pulling either of these boats, unless they are trying to re-vitalize the fleet and show the colours on "the truckers route". And what are they gaining by ripping the galleries out of the Cow? Speedier loading with decreased capacity? Or increased OH capacity? This seems counter-intuitive for increasing OH capacity if they are indeed sending the Alberni to 1 as well the Cow (assuming that both Spirits remain on 1 and do not become "wandering Spirits"!! ;D Nomadic ferries notwithstanding, I would think that there must be some kind of SET plan that they are going by, or are they updating things everytime the management sits down around the board table? Kind of like Winston Churchill playing with his little army men figures on the layout board shoving his divisions across Germany in WWII?? Soooo many rumours and so many sides to all of this --- I think that the end result may or may not be a complete blend of some or all or none of this ....
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 8, 2007 20:06:17 GMT -8
Chris' quote said that the Alberni will be "going to the Tsawwassen side of Route-30".
So presuming that Mainland based truckers need showers too, the MLU amenities will still be useful..... ;D
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Post by Hardy on Aug 8, 2007 20:12:01 GMT -8
Hardy: If BCFS doesn't give fiddlers-flock why are they going spent money of V class and modified Cowichan if they are not thinking about. The last word I got for management end of July Sanich is still schedule to become a truck only ferry with it's own route. oops I let sercet out of the bag. There were more to just moving ship from one place to another. One must look at bigger picture. I have not control over how BCFS runs their vessels, I just try to keep them running. BCFS has been great deal for those who had booked sailings on route 30 and made extra sailings on route 2 help. BCFS has paid greatly for this break down. Interesting information, blackshadow. Elaborate if you wish, I am most interested in " it's own route". I am still baffled by some of these pending moves though, with regard to: Modifying the Cow to remove the galleries - I can see this adding OH room -- but .... If we are shifting either the New West (as initially reported) or the Alberni (as posted earlier today) to route-1 to make room for the Coastal on Rte-30, then are we not already increasing the OH space available on that Route? With the Spirits remaining in place, and an ex-30 ferry on Rte-1 as a secondary boat, then I fail to see the point. So lets play this out. Retire the V's off #1 and .... Spirits primary and Cow and an Ex-30 boat as secondary? Coastal to Rte-2 to replace the Cow, next Coastal to #30 ... Third Coastal goes where? #1 as initially planned, or to #2? I would think #2 as the other primary, and leave a C as a secondary (or two C's as secondaries for true 4 boat service). That leaves us the two remaining V's ... You allocate Saanich to it's own route ... that only leaves us the Vancouver as a spare boat again, or the 2nd secondary C off route 2 (presumably #3 backup as well, or additional capacity on #30 if it gets swamped?) Dunno, too much fun playing what-if. Lets see how this plays out, or play rumour control 24/7 .... ;D
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Post by Hardy on Aug 8, 2007 20:22:10 GMT -8
Why would they make the 'Saanich a 'truck only' ferry, and waste the entire upper car deck? Truck only means less passengers. Rip out the passenger area, revamp the sundecks and raise the car deck height to 13.5" (4.12m) - load trucks on both decks! Or just slice her open and add height. Remove superfolous non-trucker crap. Of course this would all change the CG and we'd probably need to add more ballast to keep her seaworthy. And bigger engines ... and .... and .... Heck -- if we're gutting a boat, lets gut the Esquimalt instead. Streamline her two decks out and double-truck-deck her .... make her a truck-wh_re ;D ;D ;D Run her from Tsawwassen to Comox ... 2 round-trips daily.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 8, 2007 20:27:52 GMT -8
Hey Hardy, if you read other people's posts, read this: No one said that the Q-Alberni was rumoured to be moved to Route-1. Read that post again, it says it may be moved to the "Tsawwassen side of Route-30". I'll repeat this again tomorrow......as you'll likely have refered to it 2 more times by then.....
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Post by Coastal Canuck on Aug 8, 2007 21:11:26 GMT -8
Here's a message I recieved this morning from a friend of mine who works on the Nanaimo routes, to add to all of the confustion. The Coastal Celebration is going to replace the Alberni at Duke Point, and the Alberni will go to the Tsawwassan side on Route 30. The Oak Bay will stay on Route 2 at Horseshoe Bay, while the "modified" Cowichan (gallery decks removed) moves south to replace the Vancouver or Saanich. The Inspiration will also be on the Swartz Bay side. Buh bye V classwhat I don't understand is why would the Queen of Alberni be moved to Tsawwassen when they could just put the Coastal Celebration out of Tsawwassen couldn't they and then where would the Queen of Coquitlam and Coastal Reinnancance go?
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Post by Hardy on Aug 8, 2007 21:18:14 GMT -8
Chris' quote said that the Alberni will be "going to the Tsawwassen side of Route-30". So presuming that Mainland based truckers need showers too, the MLU amenities will still be useful..... ;D You caught me ... I was multi-tasking while "foruming" ;D Had dinner cooking while I was posting and reading, and read something too fast while having another window pop up with some emails ontop of my forum post. I read the post wrong, and mis-interpreted the "re-homeporting" of the Alberni with a transfer of routes. BTW: Truckers work hard to be smelly and dirty, and we resent (resemble?!) the implication that we should all clean up our act!! LOL For me, I would need a caustic-acid shower ..... .... to match my caustic humo Ur of course. BTW: We are cross-posting again, as you snuck this one (the quoted original) in while I had the next one up in edit composing it! ;D GET OUT OF MY HEAD FLUGEL!!! I barely have room in there for all the VOICES!!!
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Post by Hardy on Aug 8, 2007 21:24:57 GMT -8
Hey Hardy, if you read other people's posts, read this: No one said that the Q-Alberni was rumoured to be moved to Route-1. Read that post again, it says it may be moved to the "Tsawwassen side of Route-30". I'll repeat this again tomorrow......as you'll likely have refered to it 2 more times by then..... Quit it! I did my mea-culpa there and admitted I had too much going on at once to read it right --- including my delicious lasagna which I just ate 45 mins ago (damn 16 hour day!). So I HAVE referred to it a few more times, mainly while cross-posting with you!!! ;D #30 Coastal to be based Duke. Are we putting one coastal or two on #2? If we split the three triplets up to three routes, why not leave Alberni at Duke, and home-port two Coastals at Tsawwassen? Where will they be homeported? All on the Island then? Why is the Island better than the mainland? Let's stir up this pot now. Duke, Departure and Swartz? Duke, Departure and Horseshoe? Duke, Departure and Tsawwassen? Hmmmm ... soo many possibilities. Not only routes but homeports too! hehehe PI, can I borrow your cauldron-spoon to stir up this witch's brew?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 9, 2007 8:03:32 GMT -8
The last word I got for management end of July Sanich is still schedule to become a truck only ferry with it's own route. oops I let sercet out of the bag. Why would they make the 'Saanich a 'truck only' ferry, and waste the entire upper car deck? Someone might say something like " I can't believe that no one on this forum has picked up on this news yet.". Well there's been no "news", just some rumours and speculation. If there is a new truck-route in the making, it's being kept quiet by those involved, and we won't know anything definitive until something is officially announced. Certainly we have some clues that something might be up. A cascading of clues, so to speak: - new double-lane berth-2 at Tsawwassen terminal, located at the side of the terminal away from the main 3 berths. - Sidney terminal management acquisition. - Expected surplus V-Class ship. - BCFS AGM comments that they are looking for "new opportunities". At the risk of being chastised that I haven't "picked up on the new development yet", I will wait until something is announced re this. Then I'll get my Marshall/Hahn spin-filter, and consider what they are saying. But for now, they're not saying anything.
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Post by blackshadow on Aug 9, 2007 9:33:39 GMT -8
Read the official word:
Operations Update August 8, 2007 NEW SUPER ‘C’ FERRIES – DEPLOYMENT UPDATE Coastal Renaissance, Coastal Celebration, Coastal Inspiration I am writing to provide you with an update on our plans for the deployment of the new Coastal Class (“Super C”) ferries. As you know, the three Coastal Class vessels are the centerpiece of the largest new build program in BC Ferries’ history. The first of these vessels, the Coastal Renaissance, is now less than 100 days from arriving in Canadian waters. This makes for an exciting time at BC Ferries, but also one of intense activity and decision-making. Recently, we have made some important decisions with regard to the deployment of the new vessels. When we contracted for these vessels, we made sure they were designed for interoperability, meaning that each vessel could be readily assigned to different routes as the marketplace and our own business needs required. In the three years since deciding to proceed with construction, we have seen some significant changes in traffic patterns and in the overall marketplace. Specifically, we have seen rapid growth and increased competition in the commercial sector, where three companies are now vying for a larger share of the freight transport business between Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland. By all accounts, this sector will continue to grow thanks to planned improvements in transportation infrastructure in the Lower Mainland (largely driven by the province’s Pacific Gateway initiative) and to population growth in mid- and northern Vancouver Island, which creates unprecedented demand for goods and services. Our ability to respond and capitalize on this growth is linked directly to the capacity of our vessels. Growth on the mid-Island has driven traffic increases of approximately 10% on Route 2 (Departure Bay – Horseshoe Bay) over the past five years, with peak load factors now significantly higher than they were in 2003. Since the construction of our terminal at Duke Point, our intent has been to shift a larger portion of our commercial traffic to Route 30 (Tsawwassen – Duke Point), a strategy that makes even more sense given planned transportation improvements south of the Fraser River in the Lower Mainland. However, we can only do this if we have sufficient capacity to accommodate higher traffic volumes on Route 30. After a comprehensive review involving all of our major business functions and market segments, we have determined that the best way to respond to changing traffic patterns on the major routes is to assign one Coastal Class vessel to each of Routes 1, 2 and 30. This will allow us to increase capacity for both commercial and passenger vehicle traffic on each route, improve traffic efficiency at the Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay terminals and enhance on-board offerings on Route 30. Page 2 As a result of this decision, by fall, 2008, the following vessels will be deployed on the major routes:
(MODERATOR NOTE: if you find this chart tough to read, see my following posts, which summarize this info in a more readable format)
Route: Vessel: Home Port: Spirit of Vancouver Island Swartz Bay Spirit of British Columbia Tsawwassen Coastal Celebration1 Swartz Bay 1 Queen of New Westminster Tsawwassen Queen of Oak Bay Horseshoe Bay 2 Queen of Cowichan Departure Bay Coastal Renaissance2 Departure Bay Queen of Alberni Tsawwassen 30 Coastal Inspiration3 Duke Point 1 Arriving early summer 2008; expected to be in service summer 2008. 2 Arriving fall 2007; expected to be in service January 2008. 3 Arriving winter 2008; expected to be in service spring 2008. This deployment plan, and the related decision to home port each of the Coastal Class vessels on Vancouver Island, will have implications for crewing and training. Those affected will be contacted shortly and involved as the plans are developed. I’m sure you will agree that the look and feel of our new ships will signify another step forward in continuously improving the travel experience of our customers. In the meantime, thank you for your support and your hard work to date in making the completion of the Coastal Class vessels one of the most important and exciting initiatives in our history. If you have any questions or comments regarding the deployment of the Coastal Class vessels, please feel free to call me at (250) 978-1360 or e-mail me at mike.corrigan@bcferries.com. Sincerely, Mike Corrigan Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer PLEASE DISTRIBUTE TO EMPLOYEES IN YOUR AREA AND POST TO BULLETIN BOARDS AS APPROPRIATE
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 9, 2007 9:58:33 GMT -8
BlackShadow: thanks for posting this BCFS internal item. I appreciate Mr. Shadow's posting of this, for our discussion pleasure..... Here's a reformat of the vessel-chart, as it cut/pasted poorly in BlackShadow's post: =================== Route 1 vessels, based at Swartz Bay: -Spirit of Vancouver Island - Coastal Celebration (Arriving early summer 2008; expected to be in service summer 2008) Route 1 vessels, based at Tsawwassen: -Spirit of British Columbia -Queen of New Westminster ------------------------ Route 2 vessels, based at Departure Bay: - Queen of Cowichan - Coastal Renaissance (Arriving fall 2007; expected to be in service January 2008). Route 2 vessel, based at Horseshoe Bay: - Queen of Oak Bay ------------------- Route 30 vessel, based at Duke Point: - Coastal Inspiration (Arriving winter (ie. Jan/Feb) 2008; expected to be in service spring 2008). Route 30 vessel, based at Tsawwassen: - Queen of Alberni ---------------------
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 9, 2007 10:07:35 GMT -8
Based on Blackshadow's posted info, here is my summary of the various ships that will be home-ported at each terminal:
Tsawwassen: - Queen of Alberni - Spirit of British Columbia - Queen of New Westminster
Swartz Bay: - Spirit of Vancouver Island - Coastal Celebration
Horseshoe Bay: - Queen of Oak Bay
Duke Point: - Coastal Inspiration
Departure Bay: - Queen of Cowichan - Coastal Renaissance
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So, which major ships are missing from the above list? - Queen of Surrey - Queen of Coquitlam - Queen of Saanich - Queen of Vancouver - Queen of Esquimalt.
Here is my Flugel speculation: Presumably, the Surrey will be on Route-3 Langdale, backed up by the Coquitlam. It looks like the Coquitlam will become the "new Esquimalt", ie the rental-vessel in the fleet, filling in for refits and breakdowns. According to some on this forum, the Coquitlam's mechanical and other condition is already well on it's way to being Esquimalt-like, as this is the oldest C (in terms of MLU timing) and because Coquitlam has been the spare for so long now (Same neglect issues as Esquimalt).
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