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Post by Barnacle on May 1, 2009 12:44:13 GMT -8
I certainly think it should be changed to perhaps a 5-10% handicap for local yards, but yes, I think the Build Them In Washington Law should be repealed. One bid lost to out-of-state might wake up the locals. OTOH, we might end up with another MP&E special. Two-edged sword, methinks...
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D'Elete BC in NJ
Voyager
Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on May 23, 2009 2:01:17 GMT -8
marinelink.com/en-US/News/Article/330671.aspx Ultra-Low Wake Ferry Gets Green LightAll American Marine, Inc. and Teknicraft Design, Ltd. have successfully made a proposal to Kitsap Transit to bring a new passenger ferry to Rich Passage. On Tuesday, April 21st, the commissioners of Kitsap Transit unanimously approved $5.3m for the purchase of a 77 ft ultra-low wake Teknicraft catamaran and on May 18th, All American Marine received the signed notice-to-proceed. The high speed passenger catamaran will carry 118 passengers and operate between Bremerton and Seattle, Washington at speeds of 29 to 38 knots. The new vessel technology is the culmination of efforts having taken place over the past five years and the stakeholders involved span the globe. Kitsap Transit has been searching for an economically feasible solution to bring fast and environmentally safe passenger only ferry service back to the Kitsap Peninsula since Washington State Ferries was forced to terminate their service in 2003. Through a series of federally funded wake wash studies, it became evident that the wake signature of a hydrofoil-assisted Teknicraft Design catamaran produced the least amount of wake wash energy within its tested vessel class. Kitsap Transit contracted with Pacific International Engineering of Edmonds, WA to spearhead the ongoing research efforts in conjunction with All American Marine and Teknicraft Design to further enhance and optimize the vessel’s design. Teknicraft Design principal naval architect, Nic de Waal, of Auckland, New Zealand worked with hydrodynamicists from the University of Iowa’s IIHR-Hydroscience and Engineering Research Center as well as naval architects from INSEAN in Rome, Italy to model an ultra-low wake hull. Coastal specialists from Golder Associates of Redmond, WA also evaluated the proposed vessel’s performance in terms of wake generation and resistance. The vessel optimization study utilized Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) techniques to help refine the shape of the hull and hydrofoil to produce lower wake heights with less wake energy. “Our hydrofoil supported hull has been developed and refined over the last decade to become a leader in catamaran technology,” stated de Waal. “With the additional benefit of sophisticated and intensive CFD modeling over recent periods, we now have one of the most advanced and environmentally friendly hulls in terms of the combination of low wake, high speed, and low fuel consumption.” Beginning in June, AAM will construct the passenger ferry by combining an aluminum catamaran hull with a light weight composite cabin. Using composites will be a first for the company which has been building aluminum vessels for over 20 years. The latest composite technology will be used to create high strength structures at a lower weight than that of an aluminum equivalent. Composites also possess superior sound and insulation properties. AAM will outsource all composite components initially. In conjunction with Bellingham’s Marine Innovation Zone program, AAM and Western Washington University will create the vessel’s adjustable hydrofoil system using composites. JBE in Anacortes, Washington will provide composite panels to be bonded together to form the passenger cabin and pilot house. All American Marine will fabricate the Teknicraft Design aluminum catamaran hull using 5383 Sealium aluminum alloy. Welded 5383 alloys are nearly 20% stronger than conventional marine grade aluminum with similar plate thickness. Using stronger aluminum will require less material to be used, thereby decreasing overall weight. Minimizing weight is a critical factor for controlling wake wash height and energy. The copyrighted hull design’s premise is to create lift for the vessel by means of the hull shape and hydrofoil working together to displace nearly one-half of the vessel’s weight. The net result is reduced resistance, reduced fuel consumption, reduced wake, and increased speed. The vessel’s purchase price is reflective of the state-of-the-art onboard technology, which will pay dividends in terms of providing an eco-friendly ferry service. Most noticeably, the hydrofoil system and wake mitigating interceptors will be adjustable and controlled by GPS, automatically making adjustments so the vessel will produce the lowest wake energy in the most sensitive coastal areas. The adjustable hydrofoil can also be manipulated intentionally to make minor adjustments to optimize speed without increasing engine rpm or fuel consumption. The adjustable foil is highly beneficial for commuter ferry applications where the passenger load may be heavier in one direction than the other. Golder Associates will supply a specialized monitoring system for the hull and hydrofoil, providing detailed performance data for continued research purposes. Additional green features are included in the vessel’s propulsion system consisting of four Caterpillar C18 ACERT engines, which will be fit with specialized CleanAIR Permit filters to reduce harmful emissions by up to 99%. Noise pollution will be mitigated with acoustic foam insulation and composite sandwich decking material. The cabin interior will be finished with recyclable aluminum honeycomb wall panels and recyclable aluminum ceiling panels with acoustic insulation. The finished vessel will be coated with a low VOC paint system. Other amenities include ADA-friendly heads, comfortable Beurteaux seating, and bicycle storage racks to encourage as many commuters as possible. The new passenger ferry is scheduled to be completed and delivered by March 2010. Funding for the vessel construction, research, and initial demonstration run was in part secured through several federal grants and appropriations. Senator Patty Murray and Congressman Norm Dicks both sponsored bills to fund the project and look forward to Washington setting a new standard for environmentally friendly passenger ferry service.
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Post by landlocked on May 25, 2009 6:50:25 GMT -8
What exciting news this is!
While I'm not overly enamoured with the overall 'look' of this new boat, the amount of preperation, research and planning that has gone into it will make it a world leading product! All that and in our own back yard to boot.
This project has been in the works for about 5 years and it is thrilling to see it finally going ahead. If you consider the sophistication of this vessel as well as that of the recently delivered "Gemini" and her sistership, these are a testament to the creativity and ingenuity of local enterprises. Kudos to them all!
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Post by Barnacle on May 25, 2009 7:30:59 GMT -8
Except it's a waste of taxpayer money. It's been proven repeatedly over the last twenty years that ridership doesn't increase just because there's a second option; all this will end up being is one government agency trying to steal money from another, thus rendering both unprofitable--not that the SBR run is profitable, but why have two agencies with redundant operations waste more money? Don't be suckered into thinking that there is a cure-all by a shiny new boat.
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Post by Kahloke on May 25, 2009 9:34:49 GMT -8
If they're going to do this, why not try Kingston-Seattle again? Aqua Express tried it a couple of years ago with the ex Tyee and it didn't last too long, but maybe Kitsap Transit can make a go of it with these smaller ferries. It seems to me that run might have a better shot than the redundancy of having 2 services at Seattle-Bremerton. It could also siphon a little traffic off of the Bainbridge Ferry, and if Kitsap Transit does a better job of coordinating bus service with this new ferry, versus the minimal connections they provided when Aqua Express ran the service, it might actually become a good option for North Kitsap commuters.
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Post by landlocked on May 25, 2009 20:01:22 GMT -8
Puget Sound should be perfect for passenger only travel. I say 'should'. Unlike BC, you have a lot of commuter routes. The problem that I see however, is the hodge podge of commuter options. The reason Aqua Express suspended operations was simply lack of ridership and competing with a State run service that only charges passengers one way. The retail price for Seattle / Bremerton is only $6.70 for an adult and far less with a 31 day pass. No wonder their ferry service is broke and can't afford new equipment.
My point concerning these new boats is the advanced technology that has been made possible by the Rich Passage studies. In BC, the Incat designed boats we built, not unlike other high speed boats had such powerful wakes it caused significant damage to shorelines, and as has been seen worldwide, can cause issues with human safety. All American and Teknicraft have been leaders in attempting to produce highly technologically advanced equipment that will significantly reduce wake, and, due to the nature of the foils, will produce boats that will go faster with less fuel.
The economics of the run is probably a far bigger challenge than producing a good boat.
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Post by Barnacle on May 25, 2009 21:36:22 GMT -8
Puget Sound should be perfect for passenger only travel. We'll get right to work on that for you. Seriously, though, if it's perfect for passenger travel, then you'd think it would've worked by now. Actually, the system is broke because the legislature refused for a long time to acknowledge that Washington State Ferries is in fact a state asset, a state system, a state responsibility. Yes. My point is that if two agencies--Kitsap Transit and Washington State Ferries--that aren't the slightest bit concerned about making a profit can't make it work, then why on Earth is anyone thinking a new boat will solve the other problems? The true definition of insanity is to perform the same task over and over again, expecting different results.
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Post by landlocked on May 26, 2009 12:29:31 GMT -8
The issue of running commuter ferries competing with something that is next to free and compounded with only charging a fare one way makes it extremely difficult to make a go of it. I had read stats for the Aqua Express on their run and while there were what was reported to be over 8,000 daily commuters they were only able to attract about 250. In addition, the customers would pay for their service one way and then take the free ferry back.
In order to make this work you have to have connections that work. You have to have buses that go to your terminal and pick up on the other side. If they did that, they might have half a chance of making a commercial success out of it. In Vancouver, when they put in new Skytrain rails, they will abandon buses that travel the same route and force the customer to use it. That is the only way this will work.
As far as the Bremerton trial is concerned, it is my understanding that this boat is intended to operate primarily on the research aspect. I understood that once those funds are exhausted, the run may well be abandoned and the boat sold.
In San Francisco where the world looks at what is deemed to be a 'success', even the Frisco to Vallejo boats don't recover 100% of the cost to operate. I had heard it was only in the 85% range. This is going to be tougher unless they can get some sort of alignment with WSF. On the Bowen run in BC, Translink had talked about a high speed pax only ferry to downtown Vancouver. Part of the rationale that would make it work would be the reduction of bus service from Horseshoe Bay to downtown and the possibility that BCFC could re-deploy the current boat in favour of a smaller one and not have the capital costs of replacing that vessel with larger one.
The whole Bremerton project, particularly with a raft of self serving agencies won't be fun!
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Post by hergfest on Jun 26, 2009 17:47:33 GMT -8
I won't be holding my breath to see these things built. Mary wants more Island Home boats, and what Mary wants Mary gets.
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 1, 2009 18:36:02 GMT -8
I just glanced at the revised WSF Long Range Plan which was released yesterday. I haven't gone through the whole document, but here is their current strategy regarding new-builds and MLU's (Hyak): Exhibit ES-2 Vessel Procurement Plan Year Vessel 2010 Island Home #1 Replace a Steel Electric (Port Townsend) 2011 Island Home #2 Replace a Steel Electric (Port Townsend) 2011 Hyak reinvestment Invest in the Hyak to extend life 20 years 2012 Island Home #3 Replace the Rhododendron (go to Point Defiance)
Procurement # 1 (144's) 2014 144-car vessel #1 Replace the Evergreen State 2014 144-car vessel #2 Restore standby/reserve capacity; 87-car vessel moved to standby
Procurement # 2 (144's) 2027 144-car vessel #3 Replace the Tillikum 2028 144-car vessel #4 Replace the Klahowya 2028 144-car vessel #5 Replace the Elwha 2029 144-car vessel #6 Replace the Kaleetan 2029 144-car vessel #7 Replace the Yakimalink to document: www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/planning/ESHB2358.htmFinal Long Range Plan Complete Copy.pdf
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Post by Barnacle on Jul 13, 2009 6:32:36 GMT -8
My choice are QUILLAYUTE and QUILCENE for the first two. Port Townsend's favorite ADA ferry that is now retired was the QUINAULT. We need "Q" ferries! The towns of Quillayute and Quilcene are destinations served one way or another by the Keystone ferries. Also, the original QUILLAYUTE sported an unusually wide wheelhouse for a ferry her size. After seeing the ISLAND HOME for the first time in pictures, we need a replica of her and the name of QUILLAYUTE came to my mind instantly. The wheelhouses on these will be the widest in the ferry system. Very "QUILLAYUTE"-like. The name of QUILCENE as the second vessel would be a nice companion to the QUILLAYUTE on the Keystone run. Mr. Evergreen Fleet seems to want one of these named CHETZEMOKA. In doing so, Mukilteo would never see another ferry named that on the Clinton run. We should reserve that for the first 144-car ferry to enter service on the Clinton run. I think there are more pictures of the old CHETZEMOKA on the Mukilteo run than any other run in her trustworthy career here on Puget Sound. She spent a great amount of time on the Clinton run. A bulkhead of memories should be incorporated on the new ferry showing as many photos and postcards of the old CHETZEMOKA on the Clinton run as well as the building of the new CHETZEMOKA for the same run. Good to show some of the history of that run as well as their favorite of years ago. I definitely want a CHETZEMOKA on the Clinton run again! We have a few months to decide on a name of the third "Island Home" for the Tahlequah run. Can't name her STILLAGUAMISH, though. Too close to the STEILACOOM II down a few miles at Anderson Island. Would be a big mess for the folks manning the VTS Center in Seattle as two ferries on the same channel would have "Ste..."'s ("Ste..."-"Sti...") to deal with. I think you're selling the folks are VTS Seattle a little short. They already juggle multiple vessels of the same name on a regular basis. But, by your argument, wouldn't "Quilcene" and "Quillayute" be too similar? Chetzemoka, while a regular Mukilteo-Columbia Beach (as it was then) boat, was also a Clallam chief, and they lived in the Port Townsend area, so the heritage more accurately belongs to the Olympic Peninsula than Mukilteo. No official word on the names of the new boats yet. There is discussion underway. (And JFTR, I think the new pilothouses look ungainly.)
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 13, 2009 6:35:47 GMT -8
My choice are QUILLAYUTE and QUILCENE for the first two. I like that idea. Those would be good names for the first two Island Home vessels. How about Skokomish for the 3rd one? And, I also agree with you about Chetzemoka. That name should go to the first 144-car ferry, or whichever one ends up at Mukilteo. I'd like to see the name Enetai resurrected for the 144-car boat that goes to Bremerton. EGFleet has that name as one of the possible considerations on his site, as well as resurrecting the name Kulshan. I think that one should be reserved for the 2nd 144-car ferry at Mukilteo, whenever that gets built. Other names I like for the remaining 144's: Chehalis, Klahanie, Okanogan, Skamania. I don't know if those are all Chinook, or not, so some of them may not even be valid contenders, but I think they sound cool.
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Post by Barnacle on Jul 13, 2009 6:42:40 GMT -8
"Okanogan" is out of the running because one of the long-time rules is that the pronounciation of the name should be evident from the spelling. You might convince me that the Canadian spelling would be okay, but then we'd forever be hearing about how the name of one of our boats is misspelled.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Sept 25, 2009 9:23:31 GMT -8
Slightly different story from the Kitsap Sun, which gets it right on the size of the ferry system...again they're really down on calling them the "Island Home" Class. State Ferries Shows Off Progress on New Boat for Port TownsendBy Ed Friedrich (Contact) Thursday, September 24, 2009 SEATTLE — The pieces are starting to come together on the state’s first new ferry in more than a decade, but classifying it leaves a little to be desired. “This is not the Island Home, this is the 64-car auto ferry,” said Todd Pacific Shipyards Chief Executive Officer Steve Welch, referring to the boat after which the state’s 64-car ferry is being modeled. Gov. Chris Gregoire followed Welch to the microphone during a media event Thursday at the shipyard, stating that “64-car auto ferry” is not going to cut it. There needs to be a better name for the class, she said. “Maybe we should name it the Excellence Class ferry,” chimed in Washington State Ferries Director David Moseley. That’s a little cheesy, but fitting based on the progress report given Thursday. Four primary contractors are working on the boat at different sites around Puget Sound. Todd is building the hull, which it showed off Thursday. Nichols Brothers Boat Builders is constructing the pilot houses and passenger cabin on Whidbey Island. Everett Shipyard is in charge of the curtain plate, or sides, of the ferry. The steering compartments are being crafted by Jesse Engineering in Tacoma. All are on schedule. Jesse is ahead of it. “We are now making progress. The ship is coming together,” Welch said. Only by building the ferry’s sections simultaneously can an 18-month deadline be met. The clock started ticking on Jan. 5. The state wanted to speed things up, and was willing to pay extra for it, because it has been leasing a boat from Pierce County for the Port Townsend-Keystone route since February 2008 and needs to give it back. The state’s four Steel Electric-class ferries were grounded because of safety concerns in November 2007, and it doesn’t have another boat that can navigate Keystone Harbor. The new $65.5 million ferry is based on the Island Home that sails between mainland Massachusetts, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket, but has been customized for Northwest conditions and to fit in with the rest of the fleet, like a new version of the Steel-Electrics. The Island Home carries 57 cars and 1,200 passengers. The new ferry is being lengthened by 12 feet to accommodate 64 cars and its seating reduced to 650 to 750 passengers, closer the Steel-Electrics’ 616. That should keep the crew size, based on passenger capacity, similar to the Steel-Electrics. The bow is being modified to the standard WSF “pickle fork” design to facilitate overhead loading and provide better sight lines from the pilot houses. The Island Home has doors on the car deck to keep out splashed-up water. The Puget Sound is usually not rough enough to need the doors here. The new ferry won’t have movable auto lift decks like the Island Home because the benefit of adding room for 16 more cars is outweighed by the challenges the lifts present, plus they would set back the schedule. The bow, sides and windows were redesigned to look like other WSF ferries. Welch said the ferry construction created or preserved 360 jobs, that there are 30 significant subcontractors and hundreds to thousands of suppliers. “We’re going to get back to having the largest and best ferry fleet in the country,” Gregoire said. www.kitsapsun.com/news/2009/sep/24/state-ferries-shows-off-progress-on-new-boat-for/#ixzz0S8bmapI9 Thank God.. I am glad to know that I am not the only one that says this is not the Island Home class !! I mean that would be like calling the BC ferries C class boats Washington state Jumbos. They were base on them because it is the same design group and ruffly style but that's it, they are not the same. So quite calling them the Island home class. Ok I'll get down from my soap box now..
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Post by northwesterner on Oct 7, 2009 10:31:30 GMT -8
New ferry may get S'Klallam chief's nameAccording to ferry historian Steve Pickens, a boat called the Golden Poppy was moved to Puget Sound from California in 1938, was reconditioned, repainted and renamed Chetzemoka and worked the Port Townsend-Edmonds run. Who's this Steve Pickens, Anyways? ;-)
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Oct 7, 2009 11:16:22 GMT -8
New ferry may get S'Klallam chief's nameAccording to ferry historian Steve Pickens, a boat called the Golden Poppy was moved to Puget Sound from California in 1938, was reconditioned, repainted and renamed Chetzemoka and worked the Port Townsend-Edmonds run. Who's this Steve Pickens, Anyways? ;-) Confidentially speaking, he's "Mr. Evergreen Fleet" of today's group of great ferry geeks who contribute on this Forum.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Oct 7, 2009 11:29:39 GMT -8
New ferry may get S'Klallam chief's nameAccording to ferry historian Steve Pickens, a boat called the Golden Poppy was moved to Puget Sound from California in 1938, was reconditioned, repainted and renamed Chetzemoka and worked the Port Townsend-Edmonds run. Who's this Steve Pickens, Anyways? ;-) As we all agree the Chetzemoka is a perfect name for the ferry. To best answer your question Steve Pickens is Washington State resident that is a ferryboat historian he has a book published about ferryboat of Puget Sound and also has a very wonderful and accurate website. www.evergreenfleet.com
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Post by northwesterner on Oct 7, 2009 13:48:59 GMT -8
To quote Professor Snape, he's "an insufferable know-it-all." I didn't know Susan was going to throw my name into the article when she was quizzing me about the former Chetzemoka yesterday. . Its good to know the Times actually has someone who knows something in the rolodex...
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Post by brian on Oct 11, 2009 8:15:05 GMT -8
the 80-year-old Steel Electric-class ferries pulled out of service because engineers said they were unsafe. Those ferries have since been sold and now are in use in Mexico, Moseley said.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Oct 11, 2009 11:03:55 GMT -8
the 80-year-old Steel Electric-class ferries pulled out of service because engineers said they were unsafe. Those ferries have since been sold and now are in use in Mexico, Moseley said.
Well if that's true that they are still in use, and not being cut up then Barnacle and I need to go Get a beer as we both called it..
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Post by brian on Oct 11, 2009 17:40:33 GMT -8
What I posted was a quote fro the article EGfleet posted. (Didn't get quote notation to work right.)
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tom98250
Deckhand
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Post by tom98250 on Oct 12, 2009 6:49:24 GMT -8
If the first boat does end up the Chetzemoka, they should name the second one the Klahanie. It just seems to make the most sense to me...
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Post by Kahloke on Oct 12, 2009 12:00:54 GMT -8
It's difficult to predict how the naming of these vessels will go, but I personally think Skokomish would make a good name for the 3rd 64-car ferry destined to serve at Point Defiance-Tahlequah. In Chinook jargon, Skokomish means "Strong People". The Skokomish tribe hailed from the western edge of current-day Kitsap County along the shores of Hood Canal, according to Wikipedia.
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tom98250
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Post by tom98250 on Oct 13, 2009 6:22:20 GMT -8
I think Kahloke and Skokomish are both fine names. I never did like "Kehloken".....
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Oct 13, 2009 11:22:58 GMT -8
I don't think I will be holding my breath that these new boats will be named all after the old Wooden-Electrics.
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