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Post by Steve Rosenow on Oct 28, 2012 19:10:21 GMT -8
That is ridiculously awesome! Makes me want to install FSX on this.
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lar
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Post by lar on Oct 30, 2012 16:51:28 GMT -8
This is a real long shot, but I’m wondering if there is anyone out there knowledgeable about making ship models like this pilotable who might be willing to help with a pilotable version of this latest model. Steve? Do you know about these things from your FSX days?
Through trial and error I’ve got it working in Prepar3D more or less; it even uses the engine sounds I recorded on the Kaleetan although getting the volume right at different speeds is tricky. But I really don’t know what I’m doing! :-) Nonetheless, I was having a grand time this afternoon piloting the boat around the San Juans lost in the rain and mist. Finally I saw one of my automated ferries emerge from the mist and knew where I was. A great new weather addon for FSX and Prepar3d (OpusFSX) made the scene amazingly realistic, depicting the weather as it really is right at that time.
If anyone might be interested in such a project, I hope you will let me know,
And should you wonder, no, I did not run the boat aground! Proper seamanship, well, that’s another matter. :-)
Larry
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 1, 2012 6:47:52 GMT -8
This is a real long shot, but I’m wondering if there is anyone out there knowledgeable about making ship models like this pilotable who might be willing to help with a pilotable version of this latest model. Steve? Do you know about these things from your FSX days? Through trial and error I’ve got it working in Prepar3D more or less; it even uses the engine sounds I recorded on the Kaleetan although getting the volume right at different speeds is tricky. But I really don’t know what I’m doing! :-) Nonetheless, I was having a grand time this afternoon piloting the boat around the San Juans lost in the rain and mist. Finally I saw one of my automated ferries emerge from the mist and knew where I was. A great new weather addon for FSX and Prepar3d (OpusFSX) made the scene amazingly realistic, depicting the weather as it really is right at that time. If anyone might be interested in such a project, I hope you will let me know, And should you wonder, no, I did not run the boat aground! Proper seamanship, well, that’s another matter. :-) Larry The best thing I've found is to decompile the aircraft.cfg file from an existing boat addon in Flight Simulator and adjust the scalars for speed, weight, load distribution and vehicle size. I am looking for my old FSX install media and I am going to install it on this, and would be willing to work at making it. I still have all my scenery decompilers and whatnot (somewhere, buried on an old hard drive). Another thing to consider would be that if you are doing this as a pilotable model, you will need to create a virtual cockpit model ontop of your exterior model. You can use the exterior as a base for the VC and all you'd need to do is make the pilothouses @ No. 1 and No. 2 ends open and visible from the outside (read: as if you were looking at the actual vessel). If you are considering this for Flight Simulator, I would recommend opening up the visibility of the interior (cabin and car deck) for accuracy.
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lar
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Post by lar on Nov 1, 2012 17:22:42 GMT -8
Thanks for offering to help Steve! I’ll send you a PM regarding my experiments so far. I’ve continued to fiddle with the configuration file. Some problems are solved, but the throttle response is not right, and although I have reverse, it will only slow the boat down, not reverse the direction. Nonetheless, I’ve added a screenshot to the link above to show that I was able to bring the boat into the slip and stop at the right point fairly easily.
I’ve bought an FSX sound editor, so I should be able to have some really cool custom sounds. I think I’ll replace the standard airplane engine start sound with a recording of the “Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries…” message. :-) Oh, I suppose there might be a copyright issue; I will have to consult my team of expensive lawyers. I can also replace the standard ‘jet whine’ with a recording of the fan sound on the Kaleetan that I like so much. It’s the best white noise I know for taking a nap. :-) I’ve adapted a two dimensional ‘cockpit’ but the idea of making a ‘virtual cockpit’ (in effect modeling the inside of the wheelhouse) sounds great … if Steve knows how to place and or make the controls and instruments.
To do this right I would need photos of all four bulkheads of at least a representative wheelhouse. Barnacle, if you see this, might you have any suggestions about obtaining such photos that I could use? Anyone else have ideas in this regard? I can easily add the windows as Steve suggests, even such that the outside stays as is, but the inside is transparent. And how about windshield wipers that work? That might be possible too. (FSX really does model rain drops on the windows of the ‘cockpits’.)
Larry
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 1, 2012 17:31:08 GMT -8
One other thing about Flight Simulator is that you can program multiple viewpoints into the panel.cfg file.
For instance, you could have one viewpoint be from any point in the car deck, another from any point in either the main passenger cabin or upper galley deck. Or at any point along the sun deck or shelter areas.
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lar
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Post by lar on Nov 1, 2012 17:35:37 GMT -8
Yup, ahead of you there. :-)
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lar
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Post by lar on Nov 8, 2012 5:15:59 GMT -8
Hey Steve, good to hear from you...
[Edited to snip an arcane note that was supposed to be a PM--- but somehow ended up as a post! I have no idea…. :-)]
Larry
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 8, 2012 12:38:17 GMT -8
Excel? Why yes I do!
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lar
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Post by lar on Nov 10, 2012 18:27:36 GMT -8
Here's a quick progress report on the pilotable Kaleetan model. It started as a lark, but it might turn into slightly more than that. Steve has offered to take on the huge task of making what the flight simulator calls the 'virtual cockpit', which will be a 3D representation of the wheelhouse but also including gauges and controls that are animated. The model currently has a temporary 2 dimensional wheelhouse view that includes a functioning GPS. You can create a route and follow it. It has the whole bit! Time to the next waypoint, course to steer, cross track error, bearing to the waypoint, zooming map display, etc. etc.… and it's just the GPS that comes with FSX. The hull dynamics are close, but a stubborn speed control problem remains. The model now has functioning running lights, although to be accurate I'd like to know the angles of the light cone for the fore and aft ones. The searchlight works, and is controllable. It will illuminate the slip as the boat is docking at night for example. The sounds I'm using are actually from the Kaleetan. Here are a few screenshots of the end of my trip from Friday Harbor to Anacortes a short time ago. And I did not have to fake the landing shots. :-) The terminal scenery is not finished yet by the way. sdrv.ms/TSOOTgsdrv.ms/SUGjpZLarry
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 12, 2012 20:30:07 GMT -8
I've been having a bit of fun with the model myself, and tonight I took it on my own "sea trials" while working on the groundwork for the virtual cockpit. Tonight I took it on it's "sea trials". I was actually fairly surprised at its accuracy and speed. I created a take-off point in FS from Pier 53/Colman Dock with the end of the flight being a "seaport" I affectionately created in AFCAD and named it Bremerton Ferry Terminal. Needless to say, the crossing took about fifty-five minutes. Which is exactly how long the crossing takes on the real thing. The screenshot is of the Kaleetan rounding Alki Point, making way to Rich passage - all in Microsoft Flight Simulator! This was also controlled using a keyboard, no joystick. Very, very difficult to to, but I managed!
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 12, 2012 23:48:16 GMT -8
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lar
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Post by lar on Nov 14, 2012 18:32:01 GMT -8
It’s exciting to see the interior start to take shape! Steve has really undertaken a big job. The modeling might be the least of it. Getting animated switches to work, throttles to move and control the boatspeed, etc, now that’s a mysterious art! Although the approach to this project could be rather casual, ‘good enough’ as they say, I think both Steve and I want to do the MV Kaleetan justice. She deserves it. I hope that when it’s ready, there will be nothing like it out there.
Larry
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 14, 2012 21:19:12 GMT -8
Did some more work to the VC tonight. Scrapped the entire VC I did above and started anew with a fresh approach. This one's a winner! As you can see it looks a lot more closer to the original than the one above. The lack of photos of the actual pilothouse is leading me to use a bit of "creative license" on this. And it won't feature every button on the actual vessel, due to that factor, as well as the gauges not photographed. I'm having to use photos of the M.V. Salish's pilothouse for a lot of reference and stuff I can use.
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lar
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Post by lar on Nov 24, 2012 18:30:25 GMT -8
I thought I would post a brief update on the pilotable MV Kaleetan project. One might wonder why use a flight simulator as a platform. To me the answer is because of the incredible scenery packages for the Northwest available through Orbx, as well as a lot of other addons, like amazingly realistic real-time weather and wind. (No sea state yet, but Lockheed Martin – P3D has indicated that they are looking into it. And there are many resources for development. Steve has done a huge amount of work on the ‘virtual cockpit’ (the pilothouse); it’s going to be so cool. I don’t have any pictures to post but maybe Steve does. I’ve been working on the electronics, a bit on the controls, lighting and sound effects, and performance issues. It would help if I knew what I was doing! The last real coding I did was one summer quarter at the U of W taking Fortran, using punch cards! That dates me for sure. But I have made some progress on the instruments. The reason for doing this is to use the model, and I’m finding that it’s quite fun. Except yesterday I managed to run aground on Sidney Spit at night roughly following the WSF route, then went right over South Cod Reef. In that I grew up sailing in the Northwest, it was very embarrassing. I thought I could wing it with only the GPS, which incidentally displays essentially all nav aids from the US and Canadian Light Lists thanks to a custom file I made using Orbx developer Holger Sandmann’s database. Thank you Holger; it adds so much realism. And the nav aids are in the Orbx scenery, also realistic, including the lights so there is no excuse. There is more to the story, but people usually don’t talk much about running a boat aground. And a ferry, oh my goodness, can you imagine…. Larry
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 25, 2012 14:21:31 GMT -8
Here's a teaser of what I am referring to as the "virtual pilothouse" of the M.V. Kaleetan, for Microsoft Flight Simulator X/Lockheed Prepar3d. I've managed to add glass to the windows (with clear transparency), plus do a boatload of texture reworking. M.V. Kaleetan, Virtual Pilothouse for Microsoft Flight Simulator X. Progress as of 11/25/2012 by Loowit Imaging - Steve Rosenow, Photographer, on Flickr In the next screenshot, it shows a little creative license. Having no photographic documentation of the radar consoles in the Kaleetan, I had to use the existing photos of the Kaleetan pilothouse during her MLU refit in '99 in the Kaleetan thread here, plus use actual photos of the M.V. Salish radar console setup that I took during the Salish dedication/open house ceremony. I've also added the chart table, with an actual Puget Sound navigation chart. M.V. Kaleetan, Virtual Pilothouse for Microsoft Flight Simulator X. Progress as of 11/25/2012 by Loowit Imaging - Steve Rosenow, Photographer, on Flickr This is also a bit of creative license, based on the setup of the M.V. Salish pilothouse (although the desk is on the other side) M.V. Kaleetan, Virtual Pilothouse for Microsoft Flight Simulator X. Progress as of 11/25/2012 by Loowit Imaging - Steve Rosenow, Photographer, on Flickr And looking straight ahead. M.V. Kaleetan, Virtual Pilothouse for Microsoft Flight Simulator X. Progress as of 11/25/2012 by Loowit Imaging - Steve Rosenow, Photographer, on Flickr
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lar
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Post by lar on Dec 15, 2012 18:12:46 GMT -8
Before I re-invent the wheel, has anyone measured the acceleration and deceleration of a ferry? I understand some smartphones have accelerometers built in, and I would guess that there is an app that would display acceleration. That would make it easy. (There is even an app that displays magnetic field strength in gauss!) I’m planning to do it the hard way with a gps. Extract the time and location values and crunch. Yuck. Why do you ask? Because the settings for the ferries that run based on coding within the simulator currently have acceleration constants that appear to be two orders of magnitude wrong!
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lar
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Post by lar on Dec 16, 2012 16:16:32 GMT -8
To amuse myself, I decided to try to answer the above question by gps'ing the start and finish of the trip aboard the Kaleetan today. To make it easy I extracted the data into TopoFusion, a topo program that among other things will report time and speed information along a track. With that and a simple spreadsheet in Excel, I get the following result: sdrv.ms/R1fNMzThe maximum acceleration turns out to be about 60 times less than a typical value set in the simulator for the "AI" boats. In playing around, I accidentally set the value in the sim to be 10 times less than a guesstimate of a real world value, and the result was that the AI ferry Tacoma plowed right through the Colman dock for a full boatlength. (Note to search engines out there: the real MV Tacoma did no such thing!) The deceleration on arrival presents a bit more of a challenge because the vessel is turning for awhile. So the net acceleration is a vector sum of an acceleration pointing athwartships, and the deceleration (negative acceleration) along the boat's for and aft axis. Doing the math that way would not be easy! However I'll get the same answer if I just add vector components based on lat and lon and time which I can extract from a .gpx file. I guess I am curious about what the answer will be. Larry
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lar
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Post by lar on Dec 31, 2012 16:16:16 GMT -8
Rather than trying to trying to describe the various ancillary projects I’ve been working on, I thought I would post a link to a folder of screen clips that might better illustrate. A number of these started as adjuncts to the pilotable Kaleetan. A few new ferry terminals seemed in order. And lighthouses with appropriate light characteristics, something that was harder to do than I would have thought. And then some automated commercial vessels that cross WSF routes. One thing seems to lead to another. Just for my own enjoyment, I’ve used some Orbx scenery items in some of the custom scenery here and there. As such, those locations are not intended for distribution. I guess amusement is the goal anyway. sdrv.ms/10GvDQZLarry
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lar
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Post by lar on Jan 6, 2013 16:42:20 GMT -8
Here are a few more screen clips of the Tillicum model in progress, mostly to show why it takes me so long. Actually, all of the models are always 'in progress', just some more than others. These shots are lower resolution so I could link them here directly-- now that I figured out how. I've had to guess at some of the construction, not having direct access. The degree of detail makes no sense really for the intended use as an automated vessel in the simulator since the viewing distance would rarely be closer than say a 100 feet. So why put photo-textures on the running lights, or the antenna mounts, or a traffic cone,… I have no idea! (The railings, etc will be removed from the photo-textures when I'm finished using it as a reference.) I'll match the tones later Some guessing. But some detail phototextures used here are actually from the Tillicum These car deck textures are all from the Tillicum, not borrowed from other boats as I usually do. Larry
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lar
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Post by lar on Jan 8, 2013 7:57:44 GMT -8
Here's another odd question: can anyone give me an order of magnitude estimate of the turning rate of a mid to large WSF ferry for a given rudder deflection? Barnacle? I have made a functioning rudder angle indicator for the pilotable Kaleetan model using a very nice, very realistic photoshop image Steve sent me. (I'll try to post a screen clip at some point.) I'm trying to calibrate it so the readings it gives are at least not totally inappropriate. With my current fudge factor setting I get the following: with the model at ~13 knots, a 10 degree rudder deflection per the indicator gives a turning rate of ~ 35 degrees course alteration per minute. That seems plausible… without any knowledge whatsoever on my part. Any little bit of information about the effect of a given rudder deflection would be a help! Larry
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Post by paulvanb on Jan 9, 2013 21:18:56 GMT -8
You know, the more I see of Steve Rosenow's signature photo, the more I like it! I think it has potential to be a framed print.
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lar
Deckhand
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Post by lar on Jan 11, 2013 17:45:34 GMT -8
The MV Tillicum model somewhat further along, and these screen clips hopefully in a more appropriate thread. It's another intended as another replacement for the automated ferries in the flight simulator. I think this will be the 5th WSF ferry, but maybe a few of the earlier ones don't count because they don't look quite as good to my eye now. Larry
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Jan 11, 2013 18:41:56 GMT -8
That is awesome work, Larry!
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lar
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Post by lar on Jan 19, 2013 17:27:32 GMT -8
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lar
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Post by lar on Jan 25, 2013 18:18:35 GMT -8
I hope this is not too far off topic. To go along with some of my new automated ferries I've been experimenting with different ways to make ferry terminals. It's not that hard when they are located on flat ground, but until now I've had no success on sloped areas. Part of the problem is that the topography in the simulator is not that accurate near shorelines often terminating in a small cliff, so just making the various objects and placing them does not work very well. I think that most of the scenery made for flight simulators does not have this difficulty. Anyway, here's the result of my Winslow experiment:
(Don't ask me now the Melissa Ann (to the right) ended up in Winslow.
I added some more realistic day markers in place of the dolphins that are part of the Orbx scenery:
And since Blakely Rock was missing from the scenery, I made a model of that too along with the navigation aid, flashing white, 4 seconds.
</p>
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