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Post by landlocked on Mar 13, 2007 7:52:36 GMT -8
The Squamish project is dead. Mr. Gagne has no visible money to speak of, and has been very quiet of late. My sources in Squamish tell me that he's lost interest, while they still want to see something happen. They want a ferry so bad they can almost taste it, but it still doesn't appear feasible. The Squamish Band keep talking about doing something, what yet, nobody quite knows.
What Squamish needs re a ferry project is a very comprehensive business plan and review of same. It will always be difficult to convince people to lock into a waterborne travel system where cost appears much higher to the consumer, particularly if the customer can drive their car the same route.
It's a very tough project to sell to the banks.
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Post by landlocked on Mar 13, 2007 8:52:39 GMT -8
My understanding is that he has ordered one used industrial engine to be converted to marine use. I also understand from the Detroit Diesel fellows that the engines may be 'different' from the standard 'marine engine'.
I also understand that there has been little contact between TC and Sealink. If they want to put that boat back to work, they'd better get their act together with TC. I have also been led to believe that TC may not certify the boat with one rebuilt engine and one highly suspect one. Will be interesting, but hey, Mr. Life is in charge. Wish him luck!
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on Mar 13, 2007 9:36:27 GMT -8
Do we have any evidence that Transport Canada asked for a crew of eleven on the Kuper? It makes no sense, given traditional crew levels on boats that size.
I see that the private Seattle - Bremerton passenger service is shutting down, and they're blaming WSF and Kitsap Transit for part of their woes.
A big problem seems to be that the only people who get involved in these things, whether it be the 'Lynx, Bremerton, the guy in Squamish, or Mr Life, are under capitalized hobbyists who don't have the deep pockets to weather both a lengthy start up and an established, publicly funded rival.
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Post by landlocked on Mar 13, 2007 10:00:43 GMT -8
This issue of crewing is not new. If you do some research on the crewing levels in Canada vs even our neighbours to the south, you will find huge differences ie C class vs some of the WSF fleet. Here 37 crew for 1500 pax - there 15 crew for 2500 pax.
Skeena Queen - 8 crew/600 pax/100 vehicles, Capilano 12 Crew/450 pax/85 vehicles, KUPER 8(Maybe) Crew/300 Pax/32 Vehicles.
This has been a thorny issue for a number of years for the operators. No rhyme or reason, simply the requirement to have sufficient and efficient to perform the duties. Not to say for one second that's a wrong concept. Safety is paramount. Even the Seabus has a problem with this issue. Here are two boats that have gone back and forth for 25+ years succesfully and without incident. Now, if they build a new one, even if it's a sistership, they have NO IDEA HOW MANY CREW IT WILL NEED, and the decision will be made on the spot by a TC inspector. How are you supposed to run a business that way.
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Post by landlocked on Mar 13, 2007 12:36:17 GMT -8
Re: Crewing for Kuper
I was advised by a source close to the issue. As I understand the original crew comp required was 11. TC appears to have reduced that to 8, but is still unsatisfactory to BCFS. TC appears to be trying to justify based on some crewing established back east, not based on previous licences here on the west coast. What is most frustrating for operators is simply not knowing. When you go to your bank, borrow the money based on a certain business plan, only to be told by TC that you need anywhere from 50 to 100% more crew than you anticipated, that's what's not on with this picture. How can we build a boat never knowing what crew complement is required. That's simply insane.
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Post by Dane on Mar 13, 2007 13:30:04 GMT -8
Has anyone from WSF worked on BC Ferries ? With some small expections, that wouldn't be allowed under the last BCFU contract, but the new one just released would allow it if the tickets matched. I believe WSF and BCFS are both looking for staff so I can't imagine why there would be temporary roaming between the two (nor do I believe there is).
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Mar 13, 2007 16:17:05 GMT -8
I will confirm that WSF is looking for staff, engine room oilers, terminal staff, and deckhands.
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Mar 13, 2007 21:40:39 GMT -8
Will BC Ferries be looking for any Chief Engineers in 10 years?
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Post by Mr Curious on Mar 14, 2007 0:18:26 GMT -8
I am curious about how the decision in www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/sc/07/01/2007bcsc0109.htmaffects Ed Life. It's probably in there somewhere but can someone clarify it? I'm just not good with legalese. I have never seen this case mentioned in the Harbourlynx thread. Maybe I wasn't looking enough.
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Post by Barnacle on Mar 14, 2007 7:59:37 GMT -8
The talk of different crew numbers - as per BCFS and WSF vessels - is there also a wage scale difference? We now have the new multi-year deal done for all BC Ferries employees - does WSF staff have the same sort of deal? This maybe a real stupid question - but in Europe - you can work in other countries - so with the trade agreement between Canada & America & Mexico - is there also movement of people with same licenses / tickets between the different ferry services? Has anyone from WSF worked on BC Ferries ? Let's see: Wage scale difference--no idea what BCF empolyees make. Multi-year deal: Our contracts are theoretically negotiated before the budget request for the next biennium. Since we lost our right to strike in 1983 and were granted binding arbitration instead, this hasn't always been the case. The two unions above the main deck are current but the engineers aren't quite up to speed yet. WSF/BC ferries crossover: not that I'm aware of. I know that "foreign nationals" cannot hold a US Merchant Mariner's License (officer level), only a Merchant Mariner's Document (crew level). We have a lady who had to become an American citizen to get a license, and a gent who declined to get a license because he didn't wish to change his nationality.
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Post by boat watcher on Mar 15, 2007 12:44:28 GMT -8
Mr. Curious,
The essence of the suit relates to the question "Is this ship, which only sailed intra-provincially, subject to the Canada Shipping Act as it pertains to labour?" The 'bank' that held the paper on the ship was being asked to pay wages and severence for workers employed on the ship. The 'bank' deemed the ship to have been a 'Provincial endeavour', therefore not under the Canada Shipping Act. The judge disagreed, suggesting that the ship should be considered under Federal Law and the parties were free to take the matter before a Federal Court.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 15, 2007 17:38:04 GMT -8
Again I state, watch out if you intend to compete with the blue and white fleet. You will receive very different treatment than they. Hey Mr. LandLocked, I was wondering what you think of the old General-Manager of Harbourlynx ? I heard he's a great guy....
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Post by landlocked on Mar 16, 2007 8:07:59 GMT -8
I had heard that too Flugel. I know at times he got himself in some hot water with respect to the big boys, but I do know he was extremely passionate about the HL and the success it COULD be. As far as different treatment, it came from every angle!!
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Mar 19, 2007 9:14:05 GMT -8
Hi Gang,
Just got word of a media event aboard the Harbourlynx tomorrow (the 20th), 9:15AM at the Nanaimo assembly wharf.
Apparently Ed Life is will be on hand to show off the new engine(s?) and announce a service launch date.
I’m going to tag along with one of the guys from the newsroom and get some pictures. (Every radio station needs a photographer! Lol…)
If anyone else wants to tag along let me know.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Mar 20, 2007 14:57:43 GMT -8
The Island Sea Link got her first new engine lowered in to place at a media event today. I was on hand for the photo op: www.broadcastwest.ca/bin/isl/index.htmlEd Life says that the ISL will be in service in 4 to 8 weeks. Another new engine is on order for the port side, but the existing one has been inspected and tested and is apparently good for at least another 4000 hours. (Long enough to get the second new engine) I'm no expert, but it sounds like a bit of a gamble to me..
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Post by Dane on Mar 20, 2007 22:24:59 GMT -8
Thanks for the photos. I really appreciate them.
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Post by boat watcher on Mar 21, 2007 8:00:10 GMT -8
Kam,
Don't make a mistake. These engines are far from new. They were industrial engines converted to marine. With respect to the hours available on the second, you all have to know something. Detroit Diesel Allison BC gave the company an extension on the 'expected hours' on the two engines and extended the time between overhauls from 8K hours to 12K. That's where the extra hours came from. What they didn't do was tell the engines that. The stbd engine failed at 8300 hours since overhaul. The same omissions were made during the overhaul of the port engine as the starboard. If the bolts on the counterweights on the port engine are stretched like they were on the starboard, it's only a matter of time. What's DDABC going to say when the port engine fails because it probably will? Ooops...you guys sure have the worst luck, don't you??? The whole thing is pretty sketchy.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Mar 21, 2007 8:41:07 GMT -8
Ya, that’s kind of what I figured...
It sounds like Ed is taking a huge gamble to try and get service up and running and just holding his breath hoping everything will hold together until the boat starts to turn a profit..
eek.
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Post by SuperD on Mar 21, 2007 13:09:23 GMT -8
Don't know where the information about these engines being industrial engines that had to be converted to marine use came from. Read post 142. If you want accurate info, make sure you go to the proper equine end.
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Post by SuperD on Mar 21, 2007 13:18:44 GMT -8
Also, the engines are not "far from new". They have just over 400 hours from new compared to the original engines with over 23,000 hours. To put that into perspective, that is 12,000 nautical miles "under the keel" compared with 700,000 nautical miles.
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Post by rhmark on Mar 21, 2007 21:20:12 GMT -8
Klatawa teen - I'd be interested in learning more about the HarbourLynx operations and #'s of travellers...rhmark i could give you all that, im an ex-employee of harbourlynx, and i hold all of those numbers still.
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Post by Seadog on Apr 10, 2007 23:39:48 GMT -8
I sent an e-mail to Island Sea Link and recieved a response a couple days ago indicating they hope to have service running by the end of April or May. I hope they can stick to this target.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 19, 2006 18:23:50 GMT -8
Global TV news just aired a story on Harbourlynx going into receivership.
According to the news story: - company went into receivership on Friday - the last payroll was missed (ie. not paid) - company has approx $5 million debt, and the vessel is only worth $1 million - company has a limited amount of time to make proposals to creditors, ie a "restructuring plan". - company needs to raise $2 million in new investor capital or other new financing.
Bill McKay looked very genuine in the TV interview, showing concern for the laid-off staff.
Hopefully they can work out something under CCAA (the receivership legislation), to get back running....but lets wait & see.
The service was and is such a good idea and valuable service to Nanaimo.
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Post by NMcKay on Feb 19, 2006 21:13:25 GMT -8
after midnight. if they show the story again. ill post it on here for you to see
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Post by Dane on Feb 19, 2006 22:31:18 GMT -8
Isn't Global Final at 11?
So here's my question, is the vessel actually seriously damaged? Or could this all be a cause of loss of revenue and gained exp. from the refit running overtime and these new problems?
answer is damage is heavy
I had always thought HL was on decent financial footings (I knew they were in debt, but I thought they were sailing out of it)
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