Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,182
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Post by Neil on Oct 28, 2012 20:55:29 GMT -8
Why was the Burrard Otter operating today as the only boat? Is the Burrard Pacific Breeze the main vessel? Why would translink choose to operate the Burrard otter instead of the Burrard Pacific Breeze today? Is the Burrard Beaver getting a refit? And why did today have to the one day this season that I rode the SeaBus...? Half-hour service SUCKS. You criticize people who live on Bowen Island for speaking up about problems with their ferry service, when for them, the ferry is essential, yet you figure that a once in a blue moon excursion entitles you to whine about the Seabus? Excuse me? ============== [moderator edit: for change of thread title]
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 28, 2012 22:39:24 GMT -8
And why did today have to the one day this season that I rode the SeaBus...? Half-hour service SUCKS. You criticize people who live on Bowen Island for speaking up about problems with their ferry service, when for them, the ferry is essential, yet you figure that a once in a blue moon excursion entitles you to whine about the Seabus? Excuse me? I criticize moving to a place which necessitates ferry travel, then trying to fine BC Ferries 6000$ because their service didn't live up to your expectations. Speaking up about problems is fine by me. It's when these self-entitled snobs go even further, when they and everyone else knows that they moved there knowing that they're at the mercy of the ferry. If these people think they can provide a better service, I'd like to see them try to, instead of sticking their heads up their big toes giving BC Ferries even more to deal with. Do they seriously expect that BCF is going to respect them more by doing this? And Neil, you seem to really enjoy picking on me, my posting style, and my lifestyle choices. I can see that you obviously live off a different style of ideals than my own, and I'm more than sure that you've gotten your point across quite well that you don't approve of how I live. Now please stop trying to raise hell with me, and try to coexist in a more peaceful manner rather than finding a way to challenge every post I make. This is an internet forum, and you have to expect to find people who aren't exactly the same as you. Heck, we fit in to completely different demographics. If you and others can't make peace with me and the way I choose to live, I'm going to withdraw my account and quit posting here. I'm here to read about and share stories and pictures of ferries and other similar stuff on our Coast, and to react and contribute to group discussions, not to debate with fifty year old men about non-issues. You and a couple others are making it very obvious that I'm not welcome here, and although I've made a few lasting friendships here, I'm not game to deal with constant criticism from others. Here are some excerpts from the forum rules that I'd like to bring into play... Lately, it seems like you (used in the plural form, so 'you all') are trying to beat me into someone more like yourselves. I'm not liking that. I'm my own person with my own experiences and viewpoints, and I intend to stay that way. I enjoy reading and participating in debates and discussion, but it seems like some of you are attacking me personally lately, going so far as to remove me from the Voyager Board, and even threatening banning me from the site due to my own lifestyle choices, which I take part in on my own time. I've felt very belittled, and rather ganged up on in the last couple months. I'm not liking it. I can see nothing in the rules that outlaws being one's own person. In conclusion, all I can say is lay off, or I can leave. I've got no problem with doing that, seeing as I've obviously outstayed my welcome with a select few of you. I don't see anybody else shouting out against me, so maybe we should count up how many people actually have an issue with what I do and how I do it. It seems like a very small but very loud minority.
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Post by Mike C on Oct 28, 2012 23:45:41 GMT -8
I'm going to butt-in here.
Luke, I like you personally. You're a nice and fun guy. Obviously, you feel like you are personally being victimized for your views.
That being said, this is a gentle reminder that this is a discussion forum, where opinions will differ and, if you consider yourself very personally attached to those opinions, you are opening yourself up to a problematic situation where feelings will be hurt. I think everyone here appreciates the diverse opinions that you and others offer the ongoing discussion.
Your Voyager status is not open to discussion, as I don't think anyone here wants to go down that road again. But your views are open to criticism anytime you post here, so my suggestion to you is, with all due respect, don't turn around and play victim when you're stuck. This is part of life.
I think instead of citing forum rules in that post (with no specific examples so I'm not sure how they're applicable), your time would have been better spent drafting an argument for Neil - which is what I think you should do - and when you do that, I will delete this post.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 29, 2012 1:48:45 GMT -8
...It's when these self-entitled snobs go even further, when they and everyone else knows that they moved there knowing that they're at the mercy of the ferry. If these people think they can provide a better service, I'd like to see them try to, instead of sticking their heads up their big toes giving BC Ferries even more to deal with. ------------- Pointing out inconsistencies in someone's arguements across-threads should not be a problem. That's not slander or belittling. Those types of inconsistencies can make for good reflection and discussion when the person realizes how their viewpoints seem to go in opposite directions in different threads. As for slander and belittling, the comment about Islanders being self-entitled snobs is the only example that I saw in this thread's recent posts. By posting stuff like that, do you really think that people won't take issue with your words ? As to the other comments in your post about your participation on this forum, let us know what you decide to do. As for the particular post of Neil's that you've replied to, it seems that your reply has created more issues to be discussed and ideas to be challenged on. Do you want even more focus on discussing your ideas? When people challenge your "self entitled snobs" comment, it won't be an attack on you, but it will be a challenge to your words and ideas; and words and ideas are a reflection of a person's attitude. So I suppose that you're going to have people challenging and criticising your attitudes about this "self entitled snobs" issue. - Are you ok with that ? Of course you are, otherwise you wouldn't have posted those comments...
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 29, 2012 8:56:34 GMT -8
And Neil, you seem to really enjoy picking on me, my posting style, and my lifestyle choices. I can see that you obviously live off a different style of ideals than my own, and I'm more than sure that you've gotten your point across quite well that you don't approve of how I live. Now please stop trying to raise hell with me, and try to coexist in a more peaceful manner rather than finding a way to challenge every post I make. This is an internet forum, and you have to expect to find people who aren't exactly the same as you. Heck, we fit in to completely different demographics. If you and others can't make peace with me and the way I choose to live, I'm going to withdraw my account and quit posting here. I'm here to read about and share stories and pictures of ferries and other similar stuff on our Coast, and to react and contribute to group discussions, not to debate with fifty year old men about non-issues. You and a couple others are making it very obvious that I'm not welcome here, and although I've made a few lasting friendships here, I'm not game to deal with constant criticism from others. I'm getting close to 50, so I'll jump in and respond to this. I think that being challenged about the things that we post is good and fair and is what a discussion forum should be about. I also think that because Luke's style of posting is attention-seeking (ie. loud, brash, sometimes outrageous choice of words that are meant to provoke reaction), he can be guaranteed to get challenge reactions to the things that he posts. So if you post the types of comments that you usually post (the brash, outrageous style - I could give you a long list), I guarantee you that you'll continue to get reaction and challenges from other members. Again, that's obviously the reaction you're expecting, otherwise why would you post in such a style? =========== [note to others: once this dialogue finishes running its course, we'll move this off-topic stuff to a more appropriate thread. In the meantime, sorry for the clutter of this. Patience please. thanks. ]
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,182
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Post by Neil on Oct 29, 2012 10:16:51 GMT -8
AELU, that rant was completely over the top, and completely uncalled for.
I have no idea what your lifestyle is, aside from small clues you gave us when you were espousing your photographic exploits. I also have no idea how popular or unpopular you are. And if you check back on the forum, as I did, you'll find that I rarely respond to your posts.
But I live part time on an island, which, along with many others on the coast, is hugely impacted by BC Ferries and BC government policies. When someone makes glib, uninformed assertions about these communities, you'd better believe I'll exercise my right to respond and take issue.
It always amazes me that people can make contentious statements and then respond with indignation when someone challenges them on it. This is a Forum, not just a photo gallery, and there are going to be disagreements. Hopefully, without one party playing the victim card.
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Post by Ferryman on Oct 29, 2012 11:02:19 GMT -8
You criticize people who live on Bowen Island for speaking up about problems with their ferry service, when for them, the ferry is essential, yet you figure that a once in a blue moon excursion entitles you to whine about the Seabus? Excuse me? I criticize moving to a place which necessitates ferry travel, then trying to fine BC Ferries 6000$ because their service didn't live up to your expectations. Speaking up about problems is fine by me. It's when these self-entitled snobs go even further, when they and everyone else knows that they moved there knowing that they're at the mercy of the ferry. If these people think they can provide a better service, I'd like to see them try to, instead of sticking their heads up their big toes giving BC Ferries even more to deal with. Do they seriously expect that BCF is going to respect them more by doing this? And Neil, you seem to really enjoy picking on me, my posting style, and my lifestyle choices. I can see that you obviously live off a different style of ideals than my own, and I'm more than sure that you've gotten your point across quite well that you don't approve of how I live. Now please stop trying to raise hell with me, and try to coexist in a more peaceful manner rather than finding a way to challenge every post I make. This is an internet forum, and you have to expect to find people who aren't exactly the same as you. Heck, we fit in to completely different demographics. If you and others can't make peace with me and the way I choose to live, I'm going to withdraw my account and quit posting here. I'm here to read about and share stories and pictures of ferries and other similar stuff on our Coast, and to react and contribute to group discussions, not to debate with fifty year old men about non-issues. You and a couple others are making it very obvious that I'm not welcome here, and although I've made a few lasting friendships here, I'm not game to deal with constant criticism from others. Here are some excerpts from the forum rules that I'd like to bring into play... Lately, it seems like you (used in the plural form, so 'you all') are trying to beat me into someone more like yourselves. I'm not liking that. I'm my own person with my own experiences and viewpoints, and I intend to stay that way. I enjoy reading and participating in debates and discussion, but it seems like some of you are attacking me personally lately, going so far as to remove me from the Voyager Board, and even threatening banning me from the site due to my own lifestyle choices, which I take part in on my own time. I've felt very belittled, and rather ganged up on in the last couple months. I'm not liking it. I can see nothing in the rules that outlaws being one's own person. In conclusion, all I can say is lay off, or I can leave. I've got no problem with doing that, seeing as I've obviously outstayed my welcome with a select few of you. I don't see anybody else shouting out against me, so maybe we should count up how many people actually have an issue with what I do and how I do it. It seems like a very small but very loud minority. "self-entitled snobs"? Are we really getting into this? Well, if we are, here it goes. I continue to take a direct offence at your attitude on here, because you seem to act like you sit in a high chair and make rude comments on people's opinion. When someone calls you on it, you get upset and take offence to someone calling you on it. Guess what, that's life! Get used to it. You need to remember kid, that you live in a city under the roof that your Mom and Dad have provided for you. Soon, one day you'll be out on your own trying to make it by in life. You'll have a job or two to try and make ends meet either easily or barely. You might even have to move to a place in order to get somewhere with a career that doesn't involve driving a cash register at Mcdonalds. Hell, there might not even be a Mcdonalds if you had to move to a small enough place. People are willing to make sacrifices to their lifestyle. I did. I was a Mainlander for 6 years, and also a Vancouver Islander for 16 years. Now I've been a Gulf Islander for two and a half years, and I've had to make some sacrifices to my lifestyle just to get somewhere in life that's on a path heading towards where I want to end up in life. You keep forgetting that Islander's livlihoods depend on the Ferry. They, as taxpayers, and ferry customers have every right to complain about the service to their Island. If nobody complained, nothing would ever be done. Reality is that people are fed up with threats of cuts to service, and rate hikes. This seems to be out of their control. There's nothing that is "self-entitled" about that. The current government no longer cares for people who live in the Gulf Islands, and is willing to fork out billions of dollars to infrastructure in Vancouver. Most Islanders would tend to agree that the work needs to be done over there. But it can be difficult to sit and bite your tongue when most of your tax dollars are being sent to build bridges that we'll all be paying for the rest of our lives, regardless if whether or not any Islanders ever make the trip over to use the bridge. I could keep going on this, but I actually have a Ferry to catch in about half an hour to take me off Island so I can go shopping for snow tires and maybe even look for some sale items at a grocery store. The next ferry I could catch is after 3:00 due to a crew change and a Dangerous goods sailing. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is try to look at it from another persons point of view. If it still doesn't match up with your opinion, that's fine. But please don't insult people for speaking out about their opinion. I do value you as a member of this forum, Luke. So try not to get too upset about what myself and others have to say because ultimately I think nobody means any harm.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 20:58:09 GMT -8
You guys who are making fun of "An Extravagantly Long Username" are being childish and bullying him witch is not nice. Lay off him. He seems like a very nice guy.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 29, 2012 21:17:31 GMT -8
You guys who are making fun of " An Extravagantly Long Username" are being childish and bullying him witch is not nice. Lay off him. He seems like a very nice guy. Mr. Cheese: Your comment is off base. We are not making fun. We are not bullying. We are not being childish. Please re-read the comment from this past 2 days in this thread and you'll see that the various rebuttals and responses are clear and straight-forward, and pretty calm and professional. I strongly resent your accusation and of course I also disagree with you.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 21:36:09 GMT -8
You guys who are making fun of " An Extravagantly Long Username" are being childish and bullying him witch is not nice. Lay off him. He seems like a very nice guy. Mr. Cheese: Your comment is off base. We are not making fun. We are not bullying. We are not being childish. Please re-read the comment from this past 2 days in this thread and you'll see that the various rebuttals and responses are clear and straight-forward, and pretty calm and professional. I strongly resent your accusation and of course I also disagree with you. Me and him can have a different view of it. Witch is not how you see it. I am seeing bullying in some comments.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 29, 2012 21:50:08 GMT -8
Luke, I like you personally. You're a nice and fun guy. Obviously, you feel like you are personally being victimized for your views. That being said, this is a gentle reminder that this is a discussion forum, where opinions will differ and, if you consider yourself very personally attached to those opinions, you are opening yourself up to a problematic situation where feelings will be hurt. I think everyone here appreciates the diverse opinions that you and others offer the ongoing discussion. I know this is a discussion forum, and I know that opinions differ. It's when certain people make a habit of picking on certain individuals posts, while laying off of everyone else, that I get pissed off. As for the particular post of Neil's that you've replied to, it seems that your reply has created more issues to be discussed and ideas to be challenged on. Do you want even more focus on discussing your ideas? When people challenge your "self entitled snobs" comment, it won't be an attack on you, but it will be a challenge to your words and ideas; and words and ideas are a reflection of a person's attitude. So I suppose that you're going to have people challenging and criticising your attitudes about this "self entitled snobs" issue. - Are you ok with that ? Of course you are, otherwise you wouldn't have posted those comments... Never did I ever say that each and every islander is a self-entitled snob. I know many islanders, and maybe one of them would fit into the category. He tries to fight BC Ferries ticket booth officials about his overheight pickup whenever he passes through the terminal. It seems like when I make statements like I did, people take it to mean that I'm referring to each and every person. If I meant that, I would have said that. Try reading my posts closer. I say what I mean and I mean what I say, no matter how obscurely worded it is. I think that being challenged about the things that we post is good and fair and is what a discussion forum should be about. I also think that because Luke's style of posting is attention-seeking (ie. loud, brash, sometimes outrageous choice of words that are meant to provoke reaction), he can be guaranteed to get challenge reactions to the things that he posts. So if you post the types of comments that you usually post (the brash, outrageous style - I could give you a long list), I guarantee you that you'll continue to get reaction and challenges from other members. Again, that's obviously the reaction you're expecting, otherwise why would you post in such a style? I don't use words to provoke reaction, I use words to get a point across. I change the intensity of words I use depending on how strongly I feel about a topic (as in, 'iffy service' isn't as bad as 'deplorable service'). I don't mean to be loud and brash, it's just the way I speak, even face to face. And a note to Mr. Viking: Try coming to the Sunshine Coast before saying 30-minute service sucks. We're lucky if there's a bus 30 minutes later. ...and i'm not going to get into the discussion about the difference in population. My point here is enjoy what you have now. I don't mind thirty minute service, if demand for transit is little enough. I've ridden the bus around the Gibsons/Sechelt area, and I can see why the buses run less than the two-minute intervals in downtown Vancouver. My route in Maple Ridge often sees 40 minute service. I complain so much because Maple Ridge has actually seen some pretty big cuts in service over the last decade, in local service. Seven or eight years ago, I would've been able to take the bus right from my front door to my school, now I need to make two transfers and walk ten minutes. Not much to complain about, but considering what it used to be, it's bothersome. It isn't like the bus ran empty, either. AELU, that rant was completely over the top, and completely uncalled for. I have no idea what your lifestyle is, aside from small clues you gave us when you were espousing your photographic exploits. I also have no idea how popular or unpopular you are. And if you check back on the forum, as I did, you'll find that I rarely respond to your posts. But I live part time on an island, which, along with many others on the coast, is hugely impacted by BC Ferries and BC government policies. When someone makes glib, uninformed assertions about these communities, you'd better believe I'll exercise my right to respond and take issue. It always amazes me that people can make contentious statements and then respond with indignation when someone challenges them on it. This is a Forum, not just a photo gallery, and there are going to be disagreements. Hopefully, without one party playing the victim card. I don't think it's uncalled for at all, in fact it's been building up for a while. And what does popularity have to do with anything? This isn't me begging to sit at your table in the Middle School cafeteria. I never did say you respond to my posts stalkingly, but the times when you do, which are often enough, it always looks like you're bashing me or my opinions in one way or another. If you don't like how someone thinks, and it doesn't affect you in any way whatsoever, then keep it to yourself. It's easier done than said, even. Using your right to respond is one thing, but wasting the company's time trying to get money out of them is another. It's a nuisance. I'm pretty sure you're sensible enough to just shout at BC Ferries if they were to try to halve service to Hornby and Denman Island. I wasn't referring to you with the stuck-up snob comment, I was referring to the stuck-up snobs. "self-entitled snobs"? Are we really getting into this? Well, if we are, here it goes. I continue to take a direct offence at your attitude on here, because you seem to act like you sit in a high chair and make rude comments on people's opinion. When someone calls you on it, you get upset and take offence to someone calling you on it. Guess what, that's life! Get used to it. You need to remember kid, that you live in a city under the roof that your Mom and Dad have provided for you. Soon, one day you'll be out on your own trying to make it by in life. You'll have a job or two to try and make ends meet either easily or barely. You might even have to move to a place in order to get somewhere with a career that doesn't involve driving a cash register at Mcdonalds. Hell, there might not even be a Mcdonalds if you had to move to a small enough place. People are willing to make sacrifices to their lifestyle. I did. I was a Mainlander for 6 years, and also a Vancouver Islander for 16 years. Now I've been a Gulf Islander for two and a half years, and I've had to make some sacrifices to my lifestyle just to get somewhere in life that's on a path heading towards where I want to end up in life. You keep forgetting that Islander's livlihoods depend on the Ferry. They, as taxpayers, and ferry customers have every right to complain about the service to their Island. If nobody complained, nothing would ever be done. Reality is that people are fed up with threats of cuts to service, and rate hikes. This seems to be out of their control. There's nothing that is "self-entitled" about that. The current government no longer cares for people who live in the Gulf Islands, and is willing to fork out billions of dollars to infrastructure in Vancouver. Most Islanders would tend to agree that the work needs to be done over there. But it can be difficult to sit and bite your tongue when most of your tax dollars are being sent to build bridges that we'll all be paying for the rest of our lives, regardless if whether or not any Islanders ever make the trip over to use the bridge. I could keep going on this, but I actually have a Ferry to catch in about half an hour to take me off Island so I can go shopping for snow tires and maybe even look for some sale items at a grocery store. The next ferry I could catch is after 3:00 due to a crew change and a Dangerous goods sailing. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is try to look at it from another persons point of view. If it still doesn't match up with your opinion, that's fine. But please don't insult people for speaking out about their opinion. I do value you as a member of this forum, Luke. So try not to get too upset about what myself and others have to say because ultimately I think nobody means any harm. Once again, it's not you either who I'm calling the self-entitled snob. I completely realize that people depend on the ferries for their livelihoods. They do have every right to complain, even protest in groups. It's not BCF's fault that they can't provide the level of service that people expect. Calculate it all out financially. Do you know how much we'd have to pay, either out of taxes, or for each individual ticket, if BCF were to even break even financially? The government is the government. They care for whoever shouts loudest, and right now, the masses in Metro Vancouver are obviously shouting loudest. Get the entire population mass of the Gulf Islands together to shout at BC Ferries and the government, and maybe you'll get some attention. I looked at it from all the points of view that I could. I still stick with my opinion. And once again, I'm fine with people speaking up as much as they want, but keep it to speaking, not ignorant spamming. I hope your ferry ride was fun, and thanks for valuing my participation here. You guys who are making fun of " An Extravagantly Long Username" are being childish and bullying him witch is not nice. Lay off him. He seems like a very nice guy. Thanks, Cheese. You seem like a pretty good guy yourself.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 29, 2012 22:10:12 GMT -8
In conclusion, all I can say is lay off, or I can leave. I've got no problem with doing that, seeing as I've obviously outstayed my welcome with a select few of you. I don't see anybody else shouting out against me, so maybe we should count up how many people actually have an issue with what I do and how I do it. It seems like a very small but very loud minority. So, are you quitting or are you staying ? If you plan to outburst like this again, then I suggest that you leave. If you can't handle back-and-forth debate and challenging of your comments without losing your cool, and if the result if that you outburst like you did last evening (the post that you've since deleted, but which I've quoted parted of, above), then your membership here will be over. It's all about your reaction and whether you can control it. If not, then we'll say good-bye. But either way, we're not going to see any more outbursts like that posted on this forum by you.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 29, 2012 22:24:54 GMT -8
In conclusion, all I can say is lay off, or I can leave. I've got no problem with doing that, seeing as I've obviously outstayed my welcome with a select few of you. I don't see anybody else shouting out against me, so maybe we should count up how many people actually have an issue with what I do and how I do it. It seems like a very small but very loud minority. So, are you quitting or are you staying ? If you plan to outburst like this again, then I suggest that you leave. If you can't handle back-and-forth debate and challenging of your comments without losing your cool, and if the result if that you outburst like you did last evening (the post that you've since deleted, but which I've quoted parted of, above), then your membership here will be over. It's all about your reaction and whether you can control it. If not, then we'll say good-bye. But either way, we're not going to see any more outbursts like that posted on this forum by you. I didn't delete a thing... it's right there. Scroll up. I can handle back and forth debate just fine. It's the targeted nature of some of the debate that gets to me. I'm not the only person who uses 'big' words here, yet I'm the only one being picked on about it.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 29, 2012 22:38:32 GMT -8
So, are you quitting or are you staying ? If you plan to outburst like this again, then I suggest that you leave. If you can't handle back-and-forth debate and challenging of your comments without losing your cool, and if the result if that you outburst like you did last evening (the post that you've since deleted, but which I've quoted parted of, above), then your membership here will be over. It's all about your reaction and whether you can control it. If not, then we'll say good-bye. But either way, we're not going to see any more outbursts like that posted on this forum by you. I didn't delete a thing... it's right there. Scroll up. I can handle back and forth debate just fine. It's the targeted nature of some of the debate that gets to me. I'm not the only person who uses 'big' words here, yet I'm the only one being picked on about it. Sorry about the deletion assumption. But regarding the outburst issue, I'm assuming that you understand what I'm saying about the choice for you to make. And regarding your comment about being picked on: I'm sure that if others posted as brashly and frequently as you on some issues, those others would be challenged too. I said "Challenged", not "picked on". You get the response that your posts invite. - That's an internet-forum truth.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 29, 2012 23:01:13 GMT -8
I didn't delete a thing... it's right there. Scroll up. I can handle back and forth debate just fine. It's the targeted nature of some of the debate that gets to me. I'm not the only person who uses 'big' words here, yet I'm the only one being picked on about it. Sorry about the deletion assumption. But regarding the outburst issue, I'm assuming that you understand what I'm saying about the choice for you to make. And regarding your comment about being picked on: I'm sure that if others posted as brashly and frequently as you on some issues, those others would be challenged too. I said "Challenged", not "picked on". You get the response that your posts invite. - That's an internet-forum truth. The mood with which one responds to another determines whether it's a challenge or a pick. Hence why I said picked on, not challenged.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 29, 2012 23:06:09 GMT -8
This: The mood with which one responds to another determines whether it's a challenge or a pick. Hence why I said picked on, not challenged. or this ? If words are just a way to get a point across, and sometimes to do so strongly, then how can you be picked-on with words?
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 29, 2012 23:23:30 GMT -8
This: The mood with which one responds to another determines whether it's a challenge or a pick. Hence why I said picked on, not challenged. or this ? If words are just a way to get a point across, and sometimes to do so strongly, then how can you be picked-on with words? Adding emotion to words, whether the words are intense or not, can change the tone of a post from challenging to offending pretty easily. I admit I do this from time to time, sometimes purposely, sometimes not. It depends what reaction i'm trying to egg on from the reader on the other end. Language is an intricate science...
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Oct 30, 2012 4:56:17 GMT -8
AELU:
I really didn't want to dive into this, but maybe one more voice will help.
I'm sure you're aware of this by now, but maybe it will help to see it written flat-out. With your hypocritical comments about service levels, community needs and "self-entitled snobs", you come across as being incredibly ignorant. When people see these comments coming from somebody living in the lower mainland, complaining about having to take a transfer to get to school on transit, it really irks them because you have no way of knowing what it is truly like to live on an island or rural community. Have you ever lived in a community where the closest hospital is a 2.5 hour ferry ride away, and the ferry only comes once every 4 hours or so? (Saturna). Do you have any idea what that's like? I can't pretend I do. I grew up with every convenience I ever needed outside Victoria. I can sympathize, and imagine what it's like, but truly I have no idea.
When you use words like "self-entitled snobs" when people start complaining about the quality of service they are paying for, people are going to react. What some of the people here are trying to get across to you is that the language you use determines the type or response you are going to get. You can't use pointed almost inflammatory comments without expecting the same in return!
I think what bugs me the most about this whole situation is your insistence on being the victim. People aren't picking on you. They are challenging your ideas because you are inviting it with the language you use, and they see inconsistencies in your ideas that require clarification. You flat out admit that you are trying to egg out a reaction from the other person, and now you're upset that you get a reaction? Excuse me?
To put it succinctly, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 30, 2012 8:24:21 GMT -8
A real-life example thread on what can happen when words are used to egg-on a reaction in an internet forum.
(previous posts have been moved here from another thread)
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,182
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Post by Neil on Oct 30, 2012 11:46:12 GMT -8
And once again, I'm fine with people speaking up as much as they want, but keep it to speaking, not ignorant spamming. Would you care to elaborate as to which part of this exchange constitutes "ignorant spamming"?
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 30, 2012 22:59:10 GMT -8
And once again, I'm fine with people speaking up as much as they want, but keep it to speaking, not ignorant spamming. Would you care to elaborate as to which part of this exchange constitutes "ignorant spamming"? None of this exchange is ignorant spamming. I meant the complainers, like the $6000 fine woman. Ignorant spamming.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,182
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Post by Neil on Oct 31, 2012 9:10:50 GMT -8
Would you care to elaborate as to which part of this exchange constitutes "ignorant spamming"? None of this exchange is ignorant spamming. I meant the complainers, like the $6000 fine woman. Ignorant spamming. If you'd actually been following this story, you might have read this remark, from the author of the 'invoice' sent to BC Ferries: I have no expectation at all that this community will be compensated. As Brenda M. said, that's not really the point. The point is to quantify impact in some way so our individual complaints have more force behind them and are less easy to ignore. That's not ignorant, and it's not 'spam'. It's reasonable people giving some substance to their concerns.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 31, 2012 10:45:40 GMT -8
Premise: - Mr. Luke (he changes his username pretty frequently, so I'll just use the name in his signature) is a "Troll" on this forum.
Definition: (from Wikipedia):
Application: - Mr. Luke's self-described style on this forum of scientifically using language to egg-on a reaction, along with his self-acknowledged brash style of saying outrageous things, along with his self-described "I don't care" attitude makes the troll-definition relevant for his posting style on this forum. - This is not a new development, but has consistently occurred as long as he has been a member in this forum. The time has come to end it.
Impact on forum: - Said trolling style disrupts this forum, wastes people's time, and results in little meaningful discussion, other than rebuttals against Mr. Luke which are consistently ignored or denied and tossed-aside by Mr. Luke.
Decision: - Items posted in a trolling-style by Mr. Luke will be deleted, as they arise. - If there's just a small trolling part to a post, the whole post will be deleted. Moderators aren't going to waste time editing posts; delete-button is much simpler and quicker to use. - Is this subjective? Yes, of course. But it's also fairly obvious when a post is trolling. Mr. Luke would be smart to write his posts carefully to ensure that no one interprets it as trolling. - Is this censorship? Yes, because trolling disrupts Internet forums. This is not a free-speech issue, because this forum is a private place where conduct is expected to be regulated. - for 99% of members, this type of conduct regulation is not an issue.
Impact on the member: - If Mr. Luke wants his posts and contributions to be seen on this forum and to be part of the ongoing discussion & archives on this forum, then he needs to change his style. He is smart enough to know what he needs to change and how to change it. - The man is skilled at the science of language and using language to his advantage. I'm sure that he can adapt to ensure that he can continue to participate on this forum.
Is this fair?: - Mr. Luke is a special circumstance, and some other members might find it hard to imagine why we're being so heavy-handed here. Well, the moderators and some other members are well aware of the history of troll-posting on this forum and we have lots of history to back this up.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 31, 2012 17:08:33 GMT -8
I think it's fair, as long as I get a little wooden bridge to live under so I can eat whoever crosses it... ;D
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 21:28:08 GMT -8
I think it's fair too but it appears that AELU thinks it is also something to joke about. There has been a lot of constructive and positive back and forth commentary in this matter over the last few days in an attempt to help fine tune a situation that is causing concern to several forum members. When AELU replies in the manner that he just did shows a fair bit of disrespect towards the previous writer ( Flugel Horn) specifically and other writers generally. Free speech is sacred in this land but with it comes a responsibility for what is said. Respect always wins even if there is not total agreement on what is being said.
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