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Post by Low Light Mike on May 1, 2012 9:21:31 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 20, 2012 10:14:54 GMT -8
Here is a December 19, 2012 news article from Powell River Peak, regarding alternative services during the Little River & Westview terminal rebuilds in early 2014. Housekeeping note: - Let's use this here thread to discuss all the various aspects of the Terminal Rebuild project and the related alternative-service plans and issues.
Of course, when we actually get photos of the Island Sky at Departure Bay, we will post those into the I'Sky ship thread, not to this here thread.
Here is a great spot for this all.from here: www.prpeak.com/articles/2012/12/19/news/doc50d109458a903941359201.txt
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 2, 2013 21:48:50 GMT -8
As time nears closer and closer to the rebuilds of the Little River and Westview Ferry Docks, the more news coverage its recieving.
We'll have this thread dedicated now for the discussion of this project.
For the first month or so, the service will run between Saltery Bay and Departure Bay while both Little River and Westview docks are closed. After that first month, Little River should re-open and then the route will change between Saltery Bay to Little River until the dock at Westview is complete. Crossing time from Saltery Bay to Departure Bay is expected to be about three hours, as opposed to the 80 minute crossing it normally is.
Those who will be effected by this service alteration are angry and seem to think they're being treated poorly. BC Ferries has already said they'll be offering flights to/from Comox for those who have Doctors appointments, etc, probably similar to last year when the Queen of Burnaby had to be taken in for emergency repairs.
Anyways, here's a news video on the event.
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SolDuc
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Post by SolDuc on Feb 2, 2013 22:08:07 GMT -8
As time nears closer and closer to the rebuilds of the Little River and Westview Ferry Docks, the more news coverage its recieving. We'll have this thread dedicated now for the discussion of this project. For the first month or so, the service will run between Saltery Bay and Departure Bay while both Little River and Westview docks are closed. After that first month, Little River should re-open and then the route will change between Saltery Bay to Little River until the dock at Westview is complete. Crossing time from Saltery Bay to Departure Bay is expected to be about three hours, as opposed to the 80 minute crossing it normally is. Those who will be effected by this service alteration are angry and seem to think they're being treated poorly. BC Ferries has already said they'll be offering flights to/from Comox for those who have Doctors appointments, etc, probably similar to last year when the Queen of Burnaby had to be taken in for emergency repairs. Any idea when it will be closed? And also, they don't mention Texada anywhere, so is there service between Saletry Bay and Bubbler Bay at all? And from what I understood the Island Sky will be the Saltery Bay-Departure Bay vessel, so I'm guessing that the Wack will be on route 7.
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on Feb 2, 2013 22:34:05 GMT -8
Would not it make more sense to run the Chilliwack between Saltery Bay and Departure Bay?? And keep the Island Sky on her regular route. That makes the most sense. I dont know who decides these things. I would assume Texada would be serviced by Saltery Bay! Definately would be a good time to take some trips up there.
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Post by Mike on Feb 2, 2013 22:37:09 GMT -8
Any idea when it will be closed? And also, they don't mention Texada anywhere, so is there service between Saletry Bay and Bubbler Bay at all? And from what I understood the Island Sky will be the Saltery Bay-Departure Bay vessel, so I'm guessing that the Wack will be on route 7. The North Island Princess will probably be on the Saltery Bay - Blubber Bay route.
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Post by Curtis on Feb 2, 2013 22:39:58 GMT -8
Any idea when it will be closed? And also, they don't mention Texada anywhere, so is there service between Saletry Bay and Bubbler Bay at all? And from what I understood the Island Sky will be the Saltery Bay-Departure Bay vessel, so I'm guessing that the Wack will be on route 7. Question 1: I believe this is going to get underway early 2014. Question 2: Yes, there will be Service from Blubber Bay to Saltery Bay. In addition, there will be a Water Taxi Service between the Van Anda Wharf and Westview's South Harbour as has been done before when the NIP breaks down. Question 3: Yes, but they could also use the Bowen Queen on Route 7 since that's what they've done this year and last. You know, just thinking about it, why not use the Island Sky and Queen of Chilliwack for this run? Using two vessels would allow for 2 more round trips. Base the Chilliwack out of Nanaimo and the Island Sky out of Saltery Bay. Even if it's just for the Weekend it would help.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 22:53:13 GMT -8
Any idea when it will be closed? And also, they don't mention Texada anywhere, so is there service between Saletry Bay and Bubbler Bay at all? And from what I understood the Island Sky will be the Saltery Bay-Departure Bay vessel, so I'm guessing that the Wack will be on route 7. You know, just thinking about it, why not use the Island Sky and Queen of Chilliwack for this run? Using two vessels would allow for 2 more round trips. Base the Chilliwack out of Nanaimo and the Island Sky out of Saltery Bay, even if it's just for the Weekend it would help. Wow. I was thinking of running two vessel on the Saltery Bay to Departure Bay. You should say that if the public meeting have suggestions. It make sense. Could BC ferries use Duke point or Buckley Bay for the re-route?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 23:02:21 GMT -8
What should be added, is that the flights (which will operate when both docks are closed), will be the same cost as a walk-on ticket on route 17. There will be free shuttle service from Westview to PR Airport and from Comox airport to downtown Comox.
I think Powell River, as a fainting mill town, can expect interruptions to the ferry service like this. They're even more isolated than the Lower Sunshine Coast.
Gotta love the campy comments made at the end by the former Transportation Minister haha.
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SolDuc
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Post by SolDuc on Feb 2, 2013 23:39:20 GMT -8
You know, just thinking about it, why not use the Island Sky and Queen of Chilliwack for this run? Using two vessels would allow for 2 more round trips. Base the Chilliwack out of Nanaimo and the Island Sky out of Saltery Bay. Even if it's just for the Weekend it would help. Actually a good idea, and would sure help. The Bowen on route 7 would also make sense, but then BCFs would loose its mid-capacity spare vessel for two months, which would then make refits start earlier and end later than usual. What should be added, is that the flights (which will operate when both docks are closed), will be the same cost as a walk-on ticket on route 17. There will be free shuttle service from Westview to PR Airport and from Comox airport to downtown Comox. Wow. That sure makes it really cheap. I wonder how many BCFs will have to pay to the airline that operates the service, for all the money that it is loosing for this.
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Post by Curtis on Feb 2, 2013 23:49:11 GMT -8
Wow. I was thinking of running two vessel on the Saltery Bay to Departure Bay. You should say that if the public meeting have suggestions. It make sense. Could BC ferries use Duke point or Buckley Bay for the re-route? BC Ferries did consider Rerouting Route 17 to Buckley Bay, what it came down to though was size. Buckley Bay just doesn't have the vehicle space for a Vessel the Queen of Burnaby's size. Plus, I believe she couldn't fit into that Berth because the water was too shallow. Not to mention it would interfere with the Quinitsa on Route 21. Duke Point meanwhile would make no sense as there is only one berth vs Departure Bay's three berths. Here's another thought, the Island Sky will presumably use Berth 1 at Departure Bay during this time, but I wonder if she'll use Berth 2 or 3 at all. It would be a bit better for foot passengers not having to walk across the terminal to Berth 1 possibly disrupting Route 2 Traffic. Perhaps the Overhead Walkway at these Berths could be used if it aligned with the Island Sky's embarkation area on Deck 5. I highly doubt they'd do that, but it wouldn't it be nice?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 0:50:37 GMT -8
Why is BC Ferries choosing to use the Island Sky and not the Queen of Chilliwack?
I bet it is a test to see how will the Island Sky handles heavy seas, to save fuel and money. Which could see her shifted routes to off season on the Little River (Comox) to Westview (Powell River) or Tsawwassen to Southern Gulf Islands and peak season on the Earls Cove - Saltery Bay.
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Post by DENelson83 on Feb 3, 2013 0:52:58 GMT -8
They could have considered running the route to Campbell River instead, but I bet the terminal there is not physically able to handle a boat of that size, and there just isn't room there to line up all of that Powell River traffic.
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 3, 2013 9:20:07 GMT -8
Buckley Bay terminal is too small of a dock, and the logistics for holding lanes for another ferry, let alone a ferry that's triple the size of the Quinitsa is pretty unrealistic. Same for Campbell River.
Yes, it really does suck for an alternative routing. But how often does this happen? Pretty much never. Once these docks are complete, it probably won't be another 50 years until this needs to be reconsidered again.
As for adding another ship to this route, you have to consider where the crew is coming from. As it is, I'm not sure which side the Island Sky will be staffed from during this time. The biggest benifit would be with using the Island Sky over the Burnaby is smaller crew. Regardless, the crew that would normally be on the Burnaby would likely have to all be put up in a hotel and expenses for the duration of their watch cycle. If the Chilliwack gets added to mix, where is the crew going to come from for that? The Chilliwack is crewed in the summer by crew who normally live in other point of assemblies, like Tsawwassen, Salt Spring, Swartz, etc. That's even more expense to drag those people out to crew the Chilliwack. Not to mention, who wants to spend 4 hours on the Chilliwack crossing the Strait at a painful 10 knots on a ship that vibrates like crazy.
Come to think of it, Saltery Bay could get pretty crazy busy. Going from one route to three routes at one small terminal could get chaotic. At least there are two berths to use, so hopefully the provisions to accommodate the extra traffic are being looked at.
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Post by Mike C on Feb 3, 2013 11:14:03 GMT -8
As for adding another ship to this route, you have to consider where the crew is coming from. As it is, I'm not sure which side the Island Sky will be staffed from during this time. The biggest benifit would be with using the Island Sky over the Burnaby is smaller crew. Regardless, the crew that would normally be on the Burnaby would likely have to all be put up in a hotel and expenses for the duration of their watch cycle. If the Chilliwack gets added to mix, where is the crew going to come from for that? The Chilliwack is crewed in the summer by crew who normally live in other point of assemblies, like Tsawwassen, Salt Spring, Swartz, etc. That's even more expense to drag those people out to crew the Chilliwack. Not to mention, who wants to spend 4 hours on the Chilliwack crossing the Strait at a painful 10 knots on a ship that vibrates like crazy. I believe the Island Sky will be staffed out of Departure Bay. I am thinking that the normal Route 17 crew will operate the Island Sky, with the Route 7 crew operating the Chilliwack. I think adding a second ship is unrealistic. The terminal and the three routes going there will already be stretched to the limit, with a lack of extra open-water ferries (unless we have the Tenaka in there or something).
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Post by Curtis on Feb 3, 2013 11:43:01 GMT -8
Come to think of it, Saltery Bay could get pretty crazy busy. Going from one route to three routes at one small terminal could get chaotic. At least there are two berths to use, so hopefully the provisions to accommodate the extra traffic are being looked at. The only time I see Saltery Bay getting crazy busy is if Route 7 and 17 are in dock around the same time. This will back up traffic something terrible since Saltery Bay only has one Ticket Window for Vehicles and Passengers. To counter this, they can easily instal a Self-Serve Kiosk for Foot Passengers and have an extra ticket person walk up the line of cars collecting fares. As for space, I think Saltery Bay will be able to accommodate 3 Routes at this time of year. I can see the Terminal Lot being split half-and-half between Route 7 and 17 with one or two lanes being used for Route 18 Traffic. If they run out of space for Route 18 traffic they could also line up cars at the Secondary Berth. As for which Route uses what Berth: Route 17 uses the Primary Berth, Route 18 Uses the Secondary Berth, and Route 7 will use the Primary Berth but switch to the Secondary if Route 17 is due in.
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Post by Neil on Feb 3, 2013 12:22:49 GMT -8
It looks to me that the Blubber Bay - Saltery Bay route will be slightly longer than Powell River - Little River, indicating a crossing of close to two hours for the North Island Princess. That means a maximum four round trips a day, in addition to the two strait crossing by the Island Sky.
That's six additional departures a day from Saltery Bay in total. They should have no trouble scheduling those sailings on the hours when the route seven vessel is not in.
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Post by DENelson83 on Feb 3, 2013 12:39:40 GMT -8
Another option that BC Ferries might not have considered is a water taxi service for foot passengers between the Powell River marina and the Comox marina. I'm sure someone else might be happy to provide that kind of service during the terminal upgrades.
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Post by SolDuc on Feb 3, 2013 12:40:12 GMT -8
The only time I see Saltery Bay getting crazy busy is if Route 7 and 17 are in dock around the same time. This will back up traffic something terrible since Saltery Bay only has one Ticket Window for Vehicles and Passengers. To counter this, they can easily instal a Self-Serve Kiosk for Foot Passengers and have an extra ticket person walk up the line of cars collecting fares. As for space, I think Saltery Bay will be able to accommodate 3 Routes at this time of year. I can see the Terminal Lot being split half-and-half between Route 7 and 17 with one or two lanes being used for Route 18 Traffic. If they run out of space for Route 18 traffic they could also line up cars at the Secondary Berth. As for which Route uses what Berth: Route 17 uses the Primary Berth, Route 18 Uses the Secondary Berth, and Route 7 will use the Primary Berth but switch to the Secondary if Route 17 is due in. Just by looking at it on google maps, the secondary berth at Saltery Bay is accessed only by a road that starts all the way up the hill to where the toolbooths are. Stacking the route 18 traffic in the holding lanes if they'll have to turn around to get to their berth seems pretty ridiculous to me, so the wisest option would be to enlarge the secondary berth road to two lanes (on in each direction) where one is used for the vehicles disembarking the NIP and the other for holding.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:45:15 GMT -8
Why is BC Ferries choosing to use the Island Sky and not the Queen of Chilliwack?
I bet it is a test to see how will the Island Sky handles heavy seas, to save fuel and money. Which could see her shifted routes to off season on the Little River (Comox) to Westview (Powell River) or Tsawwassen to Southern Gulf Islands and peak season on the Earls Cove - Saltery Bay. You hit the nail on the head, AC. That's exactly the plan.
The I Sky will be crewed out of Departure Bay. As Chris said, we can expect long line ups at Saltery Bay as that terminal will be hosting 3 routes for the full 8 week closure. I doubt we'll see berth 1 at Departure Bay being used as it hasen't been used in active service in ages. We'll likely see the Island Sky use berths 2 or 3 with the overhead walkway, as the Island Sky is equipped with overhead walkway gates. My best guess on the operating procedure at Saltery Bay is that routes 7 and 17 will me marshalled in the regular holding lot, with the lighter route 18 traffic likely being marshalled single-file in front of the original berth (berth 1). Saltery Bay has one vehicle ticket booth and one foot passenger ticket booth. Great idea from Curtis regarding self-serve ticketing at SB. Perhaps, as a Powell Riverite, you should submit your suggestion to BCFS. A ticket machine is already used at Campbell River to help alleviate congestion at peak times. I DO expect some augmented food service on the Island Sky during this time, as she is equipped with a galley believe it or not. As a true ferry geek, I am planning to do a mega Earls Cove-Saltery Bay-Departure Bay-Horseshoe Bay-Langdale trip, a Saltery Bay-Blubber Bay trip, and a Saltery Bay-Little River trip. Not to mention going out to Harbour Point watching all the ferry action in the Bay. Better start planning our trips soon, guys! BCFS is planning three roundtrips to Texada during the closure.
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on Feb 3, 2013 13:25:28 GMT -8
Do they have to close both Little River and Powell River at the same time???
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Post by Mike C on Feb 3, 2013 13:32:45 GMT -8
Do they have to close both Little River and Powell River at the same time??? During the consultation, this was determined to be the most effective plan, rather than closing one at a time, and extending the process.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 13:33:01 GMT -8
Here is my idea put two vessel on the Horseshoe Bay to Langdale the vessels could be the Queen of Surrey and the Queen of Alberni or the Queen of New Westminster. Base the Coastal Renaissance and the Queen of Cowichan out of Departure Bay, base the Queen of Oak Bay and the Queen of Coquitlam out of Horeshoe Bay. No route 17, Island Sky on the Earls Cove to Saltery Bay and North Island Princess on the Saltery Bay to Blubber bay.
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Post by SolDuc on Feb 3, 2013 13:36:39 GMT -8
As a true ferry geek, I am planning to do a mega Earls Cove-Saltery Bay-Departure Bay-Horseshoe Bay-Langdale trip, a Saltery Bay-Blubber Bay trip, and a Saltery Bay-Little River trip. Not to mention going out to Harbour Point watching all the ferry action in the Bay. Better start planning our trips soon, guys! If I can find a way to get to there, then I'll join you!
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Post by SolDuc on Feb 3, 2013 13:41:36 GMT -8
Here is my idea put two vessel on the Horseshoe Bay to Langdale the vessels could be the Queen of Surrey and the Queen of Alberni or the Queen of New Westminster. Base the Coastal Renaissance and the Queen of Cowichan out of Departure Bay, base the Queen of Oak Bay and the Queen of Coquitlam out of Horeshoe Bay. No route 17, Island Sky on the Earls Cove to Saltery Bay and North Island Princess on the Saltery Bay to Blubber bay. Actually not a good idea. With the Saltery Bay-Departure Bay route, even if it takes 3 hours each way, somewhat maintains a link between Vancouver Island and the upper sunshine coast. The plan described above would probably make BCFs loose a lot of money since they'd have to offer the three routes for the same price as a Westview-Little River ticket.
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