Silja Festival as Delta Spirit Lodge in Kitimat

[WettCoast]

Housekeeping question:

The Silja Festival is a ferry, not a cruise ship.  It has a car deck with capacity listed as 360 cars (1200 lane metres).  It has cruise ship type amenities, but is not a cruise ship. 

I suggest that this thread be moved out of the cruise ship section.  My suggested location is the international ferries section, though it might fit better elsewhere.

[Low Light Mike]

Mar 11, 2014 18:16:55 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

Housekeeping question:

The Silja Festival is a ferry, not a cruise ship.  It has a car deck with capacity listed as 360 cars (1200 lane metres).  It has cruise ship type amenities, but is not a cruise ship. 

I suggest that this thread be moved out of the cruise ship section.  My suggested location is the international ferries section, though it might fit better elsewhere.

I've started by changing the thread to something a bit more permanent.

I agree that she's not a cruise-ship, and so I'm thinking of where to move it into the ferries section.

- she's a ferry, but not working as such. She's in BC, but not ferrying in BC.

hmmmm, what are some suggestions for the location of this thread:
1) Other BC Ferries (my preference, even though she's not ferrying in BC. But our interest in this ship is mainly because she's working in BC)
2) North America & Abroad (but this is just for non BC ships, and she's in BC. The focus of our interest in her is her BC hotel work).

One-off items such as this are always going to be a housekeeping problem.
- does "Other BC Ferries" sound ok, especially given her more descriptive thread title of "Silja Festival as Delta Spirit Lodge in Kitimat" ?

[WettCoast]

Mar 11, 2014 18:31:49 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

I've started by changing the thread to something a bit more permanent.

I agree that she's not a cruise-ship, and so I'm thinking of where to move it into the ferries section.

- she's a ferry, but not working as such. She's in BC, but not ferrying in BC.

hmmmm, what are some suggestions for the location of this thread:
1) Other BC Ferries (my preference, even though she's not ferrying in BC. But our interest in this ship is mainly because she's working in BC)
2) North America & Abroad (but this is just for non BC ships, and she's in BC. The focus of our interest in her is her BC hotel work).

One-off items such as this are always going to be a housekeeping problem.
- does "Other BC Ferries" sound ok, especially given her more descriptive thread title of "Silja Festival as Delta Spirit Lodge in Kitimat" ?

This thread might 'fit' in the 'Forward Lounge' section, which is where we have peripheral ship-related stuff like the navy, coast guard, etc.  Keeping it where it now is is alright, too.  In the next few days I will try and get some better photos of the ship from the other side of the Channel, near my old place of employment, Alcan aka RTA.

[Low Light Mike]

Mar 11, 2014 20:32:23 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

In the next few days I will try and get some better photos of the ship from the other side of the Channel, near my old place of employment, Alcan aka RTA.

Thanks for being on on-site guy for this interesting ship-assignment, for us ship-watchers.

[Neil]

The way my brain works, the most logical spot seemed to be in the 'other working vessels' thread... but that wouldn't give this somewhat unique assignment its own thread, so I understand the placement.

[timo]

Mar 11, 2014 15:11:12 GMT -8 FNS said:

Mar 11, 2014 9:47:43 GMT -8 timo said:

It might be a requirement in Vancouver Harbour.  Other forum mates can give you a better answer.

Tugs assist BC Ferries' vessels lots of times when they go up and down the Fraser River and, especially, entering and departing the tight confines of their Vessel Maintenance Centre at Deas (Richmond BC).

Tugs also assist our vessels of Washington State Ferries when going to and from a shipyard.  Our new KDT ferries were assisted by tugs when they departed and arrived Everett during their sea trial sessions. 

Tuggyboats have crews who earn their pay to feed their families.  They're cute, but are definitely essential to the daily operations on our waterways.  It's best to keep them busy!

Thanks for the answer. Though I do not disagree with you about tugs needing to make money too, that is precisely the reason why a ship has to be able to manouvre without assistance. Especially in open water as Vancouver appears to be - remember she was a regular in both the Stockholm, Åland and Turku archipelagoes, where the fairways are very narrow, but the islands do not give enough wind shelter. For instance in Mariehamn four ferries arrive and depart within half an hour. The link below leads to two pictures of her in her previous natural habitat, together with the three other vessels running on the Turku-Mariehamn-Stockholm route. On both pictures the Silja Festival is the one closest to the camera, and the other white ferry is the Silja Europa. The red vessels are the Amorella and Isabella (Isabella is the one with an additional red stripe). Of these only Amorella is left on the route, the other three being replaced in recent years. As the ships have to berth in Mariehamn, unload, load and depart within 15 minutes, and in Turku and Stockholm in 60 minutes, they have no time to "play" with tugs. 
www.ferryto.ie/images/elements/maps/mariehamn.jpg

www.lokman.se/fartyg/MAR_990808.jpg
As for using tugs while drydocking, I have been with three ships to a dry dock, and only once did we use a tug. In that occasion the lock into the drydock was only one meter wider than the ship. Though I know that different docks have different requirements about the use of tugs. I have never experienced entering locks with a tug. Berthing, only occasionally, as my last ship, Superfast VIII (sister of the Atlantic Vision) had to her size and the port in question (Hanko - always exposed to wind from the south) underpowered bow thrusters, only 2000 kW. The rest of the ships I worked on, never used tugs, not even in bad weather, with the exception in the port of Hamburg.

[Starsteward]

I delved into the Transport Canada website last night and also the Port of Vancouver Rules and Regs. Couldn't find anything 'tug - assist' specific anywhere, lots of information on tug use for tankers etc. I've got another idea for getting a 'specifc - straight' answer from someone who should know and will report back a.s.a.p.

[timo]

Thanks.

There is always one possibility - that the captain decided to play it safe - after all - it IS a new port for the crew and although on the pictures it looks like there is all the space in the world, the picture does not say anything about currents and wind-direction. If the wind blows in a nasty direction it really does not have to be that strong - and for the captain the port is new.

It is after all a totally different thing to berth in an unfamiliar port than berthing in Stockholm or Riga, which they are used to do every second day. Which makes me think it is possible they used tugs in Panama and Kitimat as well. Better safe than sorry, some say. Still - very exceptional to see any one of these use tugboats.

[WettCoast]

Who would have been crewing this ship on its very long delivery voyage here?  In particular, were the senior officers people who are thoroughly familiar with handling this vessel in 'tight quarters'?  If those in charge (captain & senior mates) were not well experienced with this particular vessel they may simply opt for tug assistance rather that relying the vessels on-board equipment to get them safely into a berth.

[WettCoast]

Silja Festival @ Rio Tinto Alcan Terminal 2 (former Eurocan dock) in Kitimat, BC - 12 March 2014.  This is the view from the other (west) side of 'the Channel' (Douglas Channel, Kitimat Harbour) at Alcan Hospital Beach.

photo © WCK-JST by Wett Coast, on Flickr

[WettCoast]

Here is a link to a photo on ShipSpotting.com of the Silja Festival loading by the bow in a snow storm in Tallinn, Estonia.  The bow opening is not like anything we have seen used on the west coast of North America.

[SolDuc]

Mar 13, 2014 20:17:57 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

Here is a link to a photo on ShipSpotting.com of the Silja Festival loading by the bow in a snow storm in Tallinn, Estonia.  The bow opening is not like anything we have seen used on the west coast of North America.

Now that's a rather strange yet interesting bow door. Not a visor, similar to a Spirit but pointing downwards instead of straight. Well, I guess it takes those up in the Baltic Sea.

[Nick]

Mar 13, 2014 20:17:57 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

Here is a link to a photo on ShipSpotting.com of the Silja Festival loading by the bow in a snow storm in Tallinn, Estonia.  The bow opening is not like anything we have seen used on the west coast of North America.

That's almost exactly the same system used by Marine Atlantic's newer ships, the Atlantic Vision, Highlanders, and Blue Puttees. This seems to be the more popular method in use for car ferries now, rather than the visor used on the NorEx, QotN etc. I believe the idea is that it's safer, as the door latch mechanisms don't have to withstand as much force from the ship pounding through heavy seas. Not having 40-50 tons hanging 50 feet in the air is probably a good idea, too.

[grk]

The tugs were requested by the Pilot owing to the tight confines of the approaches to the berth, and the fact that as this vessel had not previously called at any west coast ports, there were questions concerning the reliability and condition of the bow thrusters. Two tugs were used for docking in Kitimat as well.  The delivery crew were not regular crew of the vessel so not that familiar with the handling of the vessel.

[compdude787]

Mar 14, 2014 7:34:22 GMT -8 Nick said:

Mar 13, 2014 20:17:57 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

Here is a link to a photo on ShipSpotting.com of the Silja Festival loading by the bow in a snow storm in Tallinn, Estonia.  The bow opening is not like anything we have seen used on the west coast of North America.

That's almost exactly the same system used by Marine Atlantic's newer ships, the Atlantic Vision, Highlanders, and Blue Puttees. This seems to be the more popular method in use for car ferries now, rather than the visor used on the NorEx, QotN etc. I believe the idea is that it's safer, as the door latch mechanisms don't have to withstand as much force from the ship pounding through heavy seas. Not having 40-50 tons hanging 50 feet in the air is probably a good idea, too.

This clamshell bow door design is also going to be used in the new Alaska-class ferries. Another advantage of it is that it seals better; in fact, as the waves pound against it, the seal improves. Also, it doesn't block the view from the pilothouse during the approach to the ferry slip.

[mrdot]

:)I'sn't it a pity you couldn 't lend these bow doors over to out lovely norad/aka sonja 8-|mrdot.

[WettCoast]

Silja Festival @ Rio Tinto Alcan Terminal 2 (former Eurocan) viewed from the townsite 'viewpoint' in Kitimat, BC - 17 March 2014.  The HHL Rio de Janeiro heavy lift vessel is still at the same wharf, adjacent to the SF.  It has brought in yet another load of large pieces for RTA's smelter rebuild/modernization project.

photo © WCK-JST by Wett Coast, on Flickr

[timo]

Mar 14, 2014 8:32:14 GMT -8 grk said:

The tugs were requested by the Pilot owing to the tight confines of the approaches to the berth, and the fact that as this vessel had not previously called at any west coast ports, there were questions concerning the reliability and condition of the bow thrusters. Two tugs were used for docking in Kitimat as well.  The delivery crew were not regular crew of the vessel so not that familiar with the handling of the vessel.

Thanks! Add to that: She had been laid up more than 6 months before sailing away, so the condition of the bow thrusters is a legitimate concern. Still, they really made history in having her use tugs.

As for the discussion of bow doors, only very few ferries without these clamshell-doors have been built since the Estonia in 1994. Visors are way too dangerous for anything but confined waters. Still, there are lots of old vessels with visors.

It is nice to see pictures of an old friend over there - although I must admit I never have been a huge fan of the Silja Festival, she is too dark in the interior. Too small windows and very dark corridors.

[WettCoast]

Mar 20, 2014 10:59:47 GMT -8 timo said:

As for the discussion of bow doors, only very few ferries without these clamshell-doors have been built since the Estonia in 1994. Visors are way too dangerous for anything but confined waters. Still, there are lots of old vessels with visors.

This discussion re visors vs clamshell-doors brings up a very interesting question; why was the relatively new NorEx fitted with a visor?  This ship sails routinely in Hecate Strait & Queen Charlotte Sound where conditions can get pretty nasty.  Did BC Ferries (and/or FSG) make a mistake choosing to build the NorEx with a visor?

---

Note: I am copying this post over to the NorEx thread.  Followup discussion should go there.

[WettCoast]

I got a chance to get up close on the water to the Silja Festival today.  Here is one photo for now, with a few more to follow tomorrow.

Silja Festival as the 'Delta Spirit Lodge' @ Rio Tinto Alcan's Terminal B (former Eurocan terminal) in Kitimat, BC - 2 May 2014.  The SF is in Kitimat for use as an accommodation vessel for workers involved with RTA's $3+ billion smelter rebuild & modernization project.
photo © WCK-JST by Wett Coast, on Flickr

[Starsteward]

Just wondering if the Silja is performing up to expectations as a hotel ship for want of a better expression?
Is there any possibilities of yet another vessel being added if and when the LNG project(s) really take off?

[WettCoast]

May 5, 2014 7:00:41 GMT -8 Starsteward said:

Just wondering if the Silja is performing up to expectations as a hotel ship for want of a better expression?
Is there any possibilities of yet another vessel being added if and when the LNG project(s) really take off?

As far as I know things are going okay now, but there were reports of it taking a long time for residents on the ship to get on/off because of MARSEC security requirements.  At first I though that the issue was something to do with customs as the ship is registered in Latvia, but I understand the delays were due to MARSEC requirements. 

I had heard also that there were some complaints from 'residents' about the ship rocking around (ships do that, sometimes when tied up at the wharf; just look at BCF vessels tied up at Tsawwassen terminal when Georgia Strait is whipped up by a sou'wester).  Douglas Channel can get pretty snarly when whipped up strong winds.  The wharf the ship is tied up at is well protected from northerly outflow winds, but not so much from the more common southerly 'inflow' winds.  Some people I gather don't like their sleep marred by instability.

---

A few more photos, as I promised the other day.  These were all taken last Friday, May 2nd.





I just might use this latter photo for a future 'sig' pic, or entry in a 'flagship' contest....

All photos © WCK-JST by Wett Coast, on Flickr

[Starsteward]

May 6, 2014 20:48:07 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

May 5, 2014 7:00:41 GMT -8 Starsteward said:

Just wondering if the Silja is performing up to expectations as a hotel ship for want of a better expression?
Is there any possibilities of yet another vessel being added if and when the LNG project(s) really take off?

As far as I know things are going okay now, but there were reports of it taking a long time for residents on the ship to get on/off because of MARSEC security requirements.  At first I though that the issue was something to do with customs as the ship is registered in Latvia, but I understand the delays were due to MARSEC requirements. 

I had heard also that there were some complaints from 'residents' about the ship rocking around (ships do that, sometimes when tied up at the wharf; just look at BCF vessels tied up at Tsawwassen terminal when Georgia Strait is whipped up by a sou'wester).  Douglas Channel can get pretty snarly when whipped up strong winds.  The wharf the ship is tied up at is well protected from northerly outflow winds, but not so much from the more common southerly 'inflow' winds.  Some people I gather don't like their sleep marred by instability.

---

A few more photos, as I promised the other day.  These were all taken last Friday, May 2nd.





I just might use this latter photo for a future 'sig' pic, or entry in a 'flagship' contest....

All photos © WCK-JST by Wett Coast, on Flickr

Great shots there Mr. WCK The bow-on shot isn't terribly flattering though. It appears like the small piece of the accomodation deck located right under the bridge is too small and gives the whole front of the ship a look like there's a piece missing or something. If the second level was extended outward on both sides the overall appearance of the ship would be greatly enahnced, or so that's just my layman's humble opinion
Yes, ship-board residents, ships are large objects that FLOAT on the water and as such, will move up and down, side to side. Doesn't anyone remember playing in the bathtub with their rubber duckies? (Note to accomodation providers: Replace front page of resident's quick facts about their new 'home', showing a wee cartoon of
little boats or rubber duckies going blob, blob etc.
Interesting to see those clamshell bow doors up close. It does make one wonder as to why the 'NorEx' wasn't equipped with them. 

[WettCoast]

Any one wanting to have a look at more of the Silja Festival could follow this link to a selection of photos on Flickr.  There are pics of the engine room, car deck & bridge, as well as various lounges & other passenger spaces taken when this vessel was in regular ferry operation in the Baltic Sea.  A few of the pics are mine, too.

[Nick]

An interesting blog post about the Silja Festival and the legal circumstances surrounding her use in Canadian waters.
dieselduck.blogspot.ca/2014/07/insulting-and-repulsive.html#.VA0DUbGurN0

The long and the short of it, is that she has been granted an exemption to the Canada Coasting Trade Act (Canada's version of the Jones Act) so that she can be crewed by non-canadian certified engineering officers. The article has links to ads posted by the ship's operators, supposedly searching for Canadian officers to staff the ship so that they can "prove" that they tried and failed to find Canadian workers. The wage advertised in the ads is 33.52 per hour for a First Engineer, which is FAR less than industry standard for a position that I'd guess would require a Second Class Certificate of Competency.

This appears to be a continuation of the abused Temporary Foreign Worker program.