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Post by Name Omitted on Apr 22, 2012 16:44:20 GMT -8
It is truly amazing. She hit a reef at 15 knots and suffered a 230 foot long tear in her side, yet still managed to swim for another hour allowing for most of the passengers and crew to get off despite what was, by most accounts, an inept evacuation.
The human side of the story has a lot of arrogance and ineptitude, but the engineering involved was impressive.
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Post by Name Omitted on Apr 22, 2012 9:51:58 GMT -8
A good "long form" piece recreating the night, and what was happening on the ship itself from Vanity Fair. She hit a reef at 15 knots, ripping a 230 foot gash in her side, and she still swam for over an hour. tinyurl.com/85oywso
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Post by Name Omitted on Apr 18, 2012 17:05:58 GMT -8
The utlimate reason these so-called debates are unleashed, is because all things transportation are very political. It is probably worth making a distinction between public policy, and politics in general. The allocation of public funds must be in a sense political, but if the discussion is framed in the form of public policy, people of good faith can disagree agreeably for a very long time. There are facts that everyone can agree upon, such as passenger volume and operating costs. The problem becomes what happens when people start trying to proscribe motive. At the end of the day, the why of politics is not as important as the how of public policy, even though public policy is driven by the pervading values placed on a project by politicians (service vs. efficacy, etc.).
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Post by Name Omitted on Apr 14, 2012 8:10:16 GMT -8
Just a reminder to all- be weary that you are, in fact, on a trusted free wi-fi before doing anything sensitive.
I can set up a computer to connect to a wifi, and then create a wifi hotspot with a nice sounding name (like "Free Public WiFi"). If your computer is closer to my computer than to the wifi hotspot, or if I have stronger transmitter than the official one, it will appear at the top of the list of most wireless devices. You connect to the internet through my computer, and I record every password that you use during that session.
This scam works best in areas where people don’t expect exelant service, as they tend to not notice lag, and in areas where people are at the same place for long periods of time, and get bored and complacent about security.
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Post by Name Omitted on Apr 13, 2012 19:46:00 GMT -8
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Post by Name Omitted on Apr 13, 2012 19:34:45 GMT -8
On this 100th anniversary weekend, I have to say that this is a far sight better ending than too many ships. She brought her passengers and crew home safely right up to the end. A yard can ask no more of it's daughters.
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MV Taku
Apr 13, 2012 19:22:07 GMT -8
Post by Name Omitted on Apr 13, 2012 19:22:07 GMT -8
Adding to what The Canadian Viking suggested is that the Mat and Mal can not get into as many places as the unstreched Taku. Increasing her size would reduce her flexibility for the fleet as a whole, and reduce the number of ports that AMHS could serve, as the smaller LeConte and Aurora had not yet been built.
We had the Chilkat, of course, but she was more of a shuttle than ferry.
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Post by Name Omitted on Apr 4, 2012 12:42:27 GMT -8
I'd just like to praise Queen of Esquimalt Mike's signature picture. Stunning, man. I swung by this thread to say the same thing.
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Post by Name Omitted on Mar 29, 2012 19:03:52 GMT -8
Based on the list of Spaulding ships found ferriesbc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=generaltalk&action=display&thread=8417, I have created (with a lot of help from a user named Brianhe) a Wikipedia template of Spaulding ships that can be seen at the bottom hullnumber's page ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_F._Spaulding). Many of the older vessels (especially those of the BC Ferries) do not have Wikipedia pages. I would like to link them to images, or to outside web pages of their own. My understanding (which could be flawed) is that if there is a worthwhile external website, I can link directly (such as what I did for the Miller Freeman), but linking directly to a Photobucket photo is not appropriate. So, with respect to art and private collections, I have two questions for the group. The first is does anyone know of external fan sites for any of these ships that can be linked? My second question; does anyone have pictures of these ships that they would not mind donating to the WikiCommons, with the understanding that they are giving up ownership of the photos? I have very much enjoyed this project, and the ability to look at Mr. Spaulding's work across the West Coast. Thank you.
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Post by Name Omitted on Mar 24, 2012 22:05:55 GMT -8
Thanks for the link. I did a search for MV Caribou on this site and came up dry. I should have known to look more deeply before posting that.
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Post by Name Omitted on Mar 24, 2012 20:55:04 GMT -8
Has anyone ridden on the MV Caribou? visitnewfoundland.ca/mvcaribou.html I was flipping though Google ferrys and was quite startled to se a "Blue Canoe" with the Canada logo on the side.
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Post by Name Omitted on Mar 7, 2012 22:27:04 GMT -8
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Post by Name Omitted on Feb 28, 2012 22:14:10 GMT -8
Does anyone know the reasoning around why a cable ferry needs fewer crew than a conventional vessel? I thought the biggest reason for crew was to be there in case of emergency. I suppose you might be able to lose one person from the engine room? It was mentioned earlier in the thread that a cable ferry is a “gondola,” not a “ferry.” Therefore it falls under different safety regulations.
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Post by Name Omitted on Feb 11, 2012 13:30:01 GMT -8
- sometime later this year, I'll need to ask the company nicely if I could get an on-board visit/tour. Many of your northern neighbors would appreciate it. If you think that there is something we could help you with in securing that tour, please let us know.
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Post by Name Omitted on Feb 10, 2012 12:31:46 GMT -8
There is always a desire to look back and ask "what if this had worked?" At the risk of hearsay, perhaps the question should be "what if the previous management/political had a procurement system in place that better predicted the future needs of BC Ferries and did not try this in the first place?"
I don't have the historical background to have an answer. I also admit that I am looking at this through the lens of Alaska's current Mat-Su Ferry, where the procurement process was done backwards (we have a cool ship, how can we use it, as opposed to we have a demand, what should we acquire to fill it).
I have two questions, than. First, was this a purely political build? Beforehand, was there good evidence that the cats would work that turned out to be incorrect, or was there a political case made using convenient evidence that matched the political desire?
If the answer to the first was yes, and there is a group supposition that that is in part what lead to privatization, did the management of BC Ferries prove itself to be ultimately unsuitable for operating a public utility, and therefore deserve to be changed?
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Post by Name Omitted on Feb 5, 2012 10:12:47 GMT -8
:)yes, indeed it is nice that fudge took the time on this first of the Alaska fleet, it's too bad our management at BCferries saw no need to give any measure of dignity at all to our first ferry! Sidney wallows in the mud of the fraser along with San Mateao in a discusting junkyard. mrdot. To be fair, Chilkat spent a lot of time rusting in one port or another before finding a new working home, and given her size and build, she is scaled to be able to do a lot more things than one of our Spaulding ferries. When it's time to say goodbye to the beautiful Taku, there will be a limited number of jobs she could be reasonably expected to do. I don't expect her to match the Cutty Sark's 85 years of active service in various occupations.
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Post by Name Omitted on Feb 5, 2012 10:03:01 GMT -8
I grew up with the notion that cutting a boat up for parts and reuse was always better than seeing her on the bottom. It's always a sad job though. I've been a part of breaking up a few classic old beauties, parts of which are now spread throughout Southeast Alaska. Through the process, I've grown an absolute respect for the yards and ways of Astoria Washington at the beginning of the 20th century. Those vessels put up with a lot of abuse before they had to be broken, and even then, they were able to give a lot to their their younger sisters. The woodwork in particular was amazing. The front of a wheelhouse was built like a barrel. Once in place the wood could neither expand nor contract without somehow exerting pressure on the pieces next to it. 86 years later, we were able to lift the wheelhouse off the hull in essentially one piece, and found almost no nails holding it together. Sometimes it was hard to figure out WHAT was holding it together. I will never build anything half as fine as that which I have taken apart. It's all a part of the cycle of things, but I greatly prefer seeing a ship modified to spend another decade or so at a different task. Thank you Flugel Horn. By the by, does anyone know if she is getting a new livery?
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 26, 2012 14:46:14 GMT -8
You know, when Elliot Bay Design Group did a study of feeder ferry options on 2009, ( dot.alaska.gov/sereg/projects/satp/assets/EBDGShuttleStudy011810.pdf) they recommended an IFA style ferry for the Ketchikan-Prince Rupert run, and an Aurora class vessel for the Lynn Canal. I wounder if they would make the same accommodation now the rather larger Alaska Class vessel is on the table (although the scope of this study was 4 smaller known and proven ferry designs). Another interesting thing hidden in this study is a chart of annual costs to run the various vessels. My issue is not that I don't think the AMHS should take the POW necessarily, I love the idea of having a spare Jones Act feeder. It's just that I am tired of the idea coming from legislators, instead of the procurement team at the AMHS. My suspicion is that if AMHS had a use for the vessel, considering how long she has been laid up, AMHS would have approached IFA. Speaking of which, does anyone know why AMHS works with Allen Marine for relief service instead of the IFA?
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 26, 2012 2:21:54 GMT -8
Can I talk one of you with a better seance of history than myself (and more importantly with access to primary sources) to write a Wikipedia entry for Philip F. Spaulding & Associates?
I would like to then cross-reference a lot of Spaulding designs to that page.
Thank you, and Mods, sorry if this is in the wrong place, I could not really come up with the correct place.
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 25, 2012 21:51:33 GMT -8
Please help a fella out…. I have never been on one of your Spauldings, what am I looking at, a Solarium without a roof? Thanks for the photos!
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 25, 2012 21:38:25 GMT -8
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 25, 2012 20:02:25 GMT -8
If the Captain is found to be at fault for bringing his vessel two close to shore, it will be overly easy for us to leave the blame there. We have a romanticized view of the role of captain and his ship, and the authority that he has on board. When a ship has over 4,000 souls on board, the question becomes, is that too much responsibility for one person?
We have well defined shipping lanes for a reason. Passenger vessels file a float plan, and know where they should go. Why don’t we have a GPS system that tracks vessels, warns when they are out of the lane, and logs the warning for later when the ships Master is required to account for the deviation once they return to shore? In this case, the Captain would weigh weather sailing close to the island is worth the explanation later on. In the case of the Exxon Valdez, the Captain would have to determine whether the time saved is really worth the explanation once on shore. In both cases if the answer was yes, there would be a record that would follow those captains throughout their tenure with their institutions. If the unthinkable still happened, it would become an issue of corporate lenience, indeed corporate practice, rather than assuming the Captain should take the fall on his own, especially if the records show a pattern throughout the fleet.
Closer to home, the GPS warning that she was leaving the shipping lanes may have saved our leConte from running aground, or saved the Queen of the North.
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 22, 2012 7:50:57 GMT -8
Those were shots of her as an AMHS vessel? Aw man... Screw the Jones Act.
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 18, 2012 12:51:18 GMT -8
I have gotten a lot of enjoyment from the AMHS section of this board, although I don't think that there are not enough of us for the "critical mass" to maintain our own group. I want to thank you all for providing us a s pace and letting us "piggyback" on your work and expertise.
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Post by Name Omitted on Jan 18, 2012 12:23:14 GMT -8
Probably about as much as the Queen of Prince Rupert was, thanks to grandfathering and how much of the SOLAS provisions the government cares to recognize and enforce. Still, this vessel falls far short of the standards that would be demanded of a new boat, and far short of anything that would be acceptable for open ocean sailings in Europe, and the state should be planning only on replacement. Keep in mind 2 things. 1) BC Ferries can go shopping around the world for a replacement to QPR, and 2) population and politics within Alaska are shifting away from the areas served by the AMHS. I have little doubt that the "study" as to what it would take to rehabilitate her will be along the lines of "40 years old? Are you ******* kidding me?" followed by a quick slapping together of numbers as to what it would cost, so they can tell us that for $60 Million USD, we can have the Tusty for another 10 years, or for $150 Million USD, we can replace for with something that will last another 40. Case in point, in Anchorage we are looking to connect the Seward highway going south with the Glenn highway going north (currently they are connected by city streets, creating a bottleneck). There are several options to do so, 3 of which cross Merrill Field, the essential general aviation airstrip for Anchorage. NO ONE thinks this is a good idea. It's not going to happen, Merrill Field is more important to our economy than the connector highway could ever be. That being said, if we want the money to pay for a highway connector, we need to show that we looked at all the options, and the one we put forward for funding is the best option available.
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