Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 17, 2011 18:50:43 GMT -8
Have to share the most damning criticism I've read yet of the Harper government's expensive folly of building more prisons and putting people in jail for longer. The contrary opinion comes not from the usual suspects in the NDP or civil libertarian groups, but from conservative, law and order types in the land of hang-em-high justice, Texas. Harper may be scoring points with his 'base', but he's not impressing people who've already gone this route. news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/texas-conservatives-reject-harpers-crime-plan-21
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 17, 2011 19:51:43 GMT -8
Have to share the most damning criticism I've read yet of the Harper government's expensive folly of building more prisons and putting people in jail for longer. Here is the full CBC report... www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/10/17/pol-vp-milewski-texas-crime.htmlMany in Canada's Conservative Party would love to extinguish the CBC. Their reporters are all 'left-wing pinkos'.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 18, 2011 6:36:22 GMT -8
But when I see big groups, I shy away from seeing the large group as my identity. So the "WE are the 99%" was something that I instantly felt uncomfortable about, even though there's truth in it. I think I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not quite clear on why you would feel uncomfortable identifying with the 99%, in the way the movement has been described. I see myself as a minority within the big-99% group. I don't want to be lumped in with the "All talk, No action", the "My parents taught me to question everything, but do nothing", and the "I'll just take from society rather than give to it" parts of the big-99%. Some of this dislike is likely baggage from the various people that I've encountered or observed, but a 99%-group is a very large group and although there's 1 unifying problem/issue, there are many different ways of responding to it, hence the diversity within the 99%. There's lots within both the 99%-regulars and the 1%-ultra-wealthy that I'm not comfortable with.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 18, 2011 11:34:45 GMT -8
Sinclair is only representing those unions who are members of the BC Federation of Labour, not "half a million working people". Wrong. The BC Fed is the umbrella organization for half a million people in affiliated unions, just as I said. As for protestors using technology, nothing wrong with it, but it is hypocritical in some respects. Not it isn't. There are no collectives or mom and pop shops making phones and cameras. People deal with the economic realities of technology. The ethics of technology manufacturing is probably one of the issues that the Occupy movement would like to address, but they don't do it by going back to smoke signals and home made crystal sets. The other aspect of this Occupy Movement is that there is no clear defined message. Where exactly were these protestors when the federal election was happening? They could have invoked change by tossing the Harper government out, and electing the NDP, but the voter turnout was a dysmal 42%. The turnout in the last federal election was 61.1%, not a "dysmal (sic) 42%" as you state. Unless you know a lot of the protesters involved, you probably shouldn't be passing judgement on what they as a group did or didn't do on ballot day. The protest is reactive, to get anything changed one has to be proactive. Done it myself more than once or twice with good success, even though the political public wouldn't be able to see it unless they knew what to look for. Do tell. I'd love to know what civil rights I'm enjoying right now as a result of your quiet efforts. When Rosa Parks refused to give up her bus seat to a white man in Montgomery, Alabama in 1955, she was reacting to racist laws. Many great civil rights movements, and their outcomes, are in reaction to injustice and inequities. Your point isn't supported by history. There are some points that are valid in the Occupy Movement, but in looking at the scope of the protesters they are not a true representation of the entire 99% matrix, which I agree with Flugel here. There is alot of hypocrisy too. Where is the hypocrisy? If you disagree with these people, fine, but how are they being dishonest?
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Post by Mike C on Oct 18, 2011 13:49:46 GMT -8
oooOOOOoooOOOOoooooOOOOooooOOOOOooooo OOOoooo
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Post by Mike C on Oct 18, 2011 14:20:58 GMT -8
- Not all "working people are represented by unions. In fact many people do not belong to unions, Neil. You missed the point. Half a million are represented by the BC Fed. Therefore it is valid representation. - The things I have done aren't related to civil rights, but rather to correct an imbalance in representation in one geogrpahical area of the province. I'll leave it at that. But conversely, what has Neil done? Well let's not turn this into a game of civil-liberties-one-upsmanship... Honesty and hyprocisy are two different things. In this instance, they are against corporations (there were many signs stating that fact, while others I would say quite rightly addressed the notion of greed. The hypocrisy lies in that they hate corporations, but yet buy from them (as opposed to smaller companies. And yet these same "greedy corporations" do provide jobs for the masses. The CAW for example draws alot of jobs from Ford and Chrysler. I don't like getting into a debacle over my personal morals, but I think you're missing the point here. Although these large companies do provide significant buoyancy in the job market, these losses were direct results of poor decisions. People, including myself, don't like funding poor decisions, and providing massive paychecks and bonuses to the imbeciles making said decisions. And despite the fact that a supposedly "free market" is completely self-sufficient, you need to watch over these morons to make sure this kind of crap doesn't happen again. On a local comparative level, quite a few wealthy people in Vancouver do give back to the community in terms of donations of money and charitable work. For example, Jackie Cohen (Army and Navy Socialite), does charity work despite her social climbing. Jim Pattison has given out millions. His latest one was for a new hospital complex in Surrey. Absolutely. There is no denying the fact that most of these individuals are nice people, and I do not agree with punishing someone because they're successful, but you have to understand that there are bad apples that ruin the bunch. These bad apples screw us, and get rewarded for it. That is just a fact. The premise here is that yes there is greed in corporations, just as there is anywhere else. The Occupy Movement doesn't represent 100% of the 99% of the population (here) that does not live in British Properties or Shaughnessy or Oak Bay over there on The Island. The Occupy Movement doesn't represent the middle class 100%. Seems to be more of a left wing excercise than anything else. Was there any representation there from the Teamsters? No. The Truck Loggers Association? No. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business (which represents small business, not large corporations)? No. The plumbers? No. Not even the CGA (Certified General Accountants, of which many work in small business, and quite a few are small businesses.). Again, not the point. I am a fiscal and moral conservative. I do not sit around and smoke pot while we hold hands and sing Kumbaya. But that doesn't make me any less annoyed to watch my family's investment money, disappear, because of poor management. There is no denying that this does not represent EVERYONE, but what protest does? These are individuals, each to their own set of morals, with a common frustration. In fact I didn't seen any small business represented there at all. Yeah, because they're busy working. In small business, that's how it works. Point taken on the federal election turnout, but it is still low compared to past elections. You still can't discount democracy because of a 60% voter turnout. In that regard, we'll disagree to disagree, and sail on.. Disagree to disagree?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 18, 2011 19:22:56 GMT -8
- The things I have done aren't related to civil rights, but rather to correct an imbalance in representation in one geogrpahical area of the province. I'll leave it at that. But conversely, what has Neil done? I agree with MileagePhoto; this isn't an appropriate avenue for discussion. You made an oblique reference to some sort of protest/advocacy action on your part, I (tongue in cheek) challenged you on it. Honesty and hyprocisy are two different things. In this instance, they are against corporations (there were many signs stating that fact, while others I would say quite rightly addressed the notion of greed. The hypocrisy lies in that they hate corporations, but yet buy from them (as opposed to smaller companies. You don't know these people, Paul. Don't make assumptions about how they live their lives or who they buy from and why. We live in a society that is overwhelmingly corporate oriented, and many people simply can't afford to always avoid doing business with large companies who sell cheaper goods and services because of economies of scale. It's not hypocrisy. On a local comparative level, quite a few wealthy people in Vancouver do give back to the community in terms of donations of money and charitable work. For example, Jackie Cohen (Army and Navy Socialite), does charity work despite her social climbing. Jim Pattison has given out millions. His latest one was for a new hospital complex in Surrey. Oh, puh-leeze. Jim Pattison's net worth is currently estimated at $5.7 billion. Given that no human being has any earthly personal use for even a fraction of that money, it would be an absolute obscenity if Pattison didn't give away millions, every year. If he wants to take up Warren Buffett's challenge to give away virtually all his fortune when he dies, I'll back off on the cynicism a bit, but until then I'll note how prominently all his 'gifts' very prominently bear his signature, for all to see. The premise here is that yes there is greed in corporations, just as there is anywhere else. The Occupy Movement doesn't represent 100% of the 99% of the population (here) that does not live in British Properties or Shaughnessy or Oak Bay over there on The Island. The Occupy Movement doesn't represent the middle class 100%. Seems to be more of a left wing excercise than anything else. Was there any representation there from the Teamsters? No. The Truck Loggers Association? No. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business (which represents small business, not large corporations)? No. The plumbers? No. Not even the CGA (Certified General Accountants, of which many work in small business, and quite a few are small businesses.). In fact I didn't seen any small business represented there at all. The point raised about the accuracy of this movement representing '99%' of people is a valid one. If we go back to the genesis of this movement, it was based on the inequity of 1% of the population controlling more wealth than the other 99% combined. On that point there doesn't seem to be a lot of disagreement, and all of the specific complaints of the movement arise from that point, and all it entails. If organizers were sticklers for accuracy, they might alter their 'we are the 99%' to 'we are among the 99%'. Then no one could say they were claiming to represent everybody. Still, it's a bit ludicrous to attack the credibility of the movement because there is not a recognized contingent of Certified General Accountants setting up tents in front of the art gallery. Not everyone identifies with the 99%, but it seems to me that there has been an opennness to accept the participation of any individuals or groups who feel our economic system is fatally flawed. This is not a society where organized protest is second nature, and it's not surprising that only a certain segment is out, and visible. The Boston Consulting Group estimates that wealthy individuals and corporations are sheltering some $9 trillion in tax havens such as Luxembourg and Singapore, paying no taxes. Warren Buffett has pointed out that he pays less taxes, in percentage, than some of his clerical staff. This is the sort of thing that fuels the Occupy movement. Paul, Mr Horn, and myself would probably be in agreement that the current protests won't amount to much tangible change, but I for one have no problem with identifying as one of the 99%, although I won't be camping out downtown anytime soon.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Oct 18, 2011 19:38:35 GMT -8
:)Jimmy Pattison and all of the wealthy and the rest of us will face the great equallizer in the end! I keep thinking of my wife's father reminding me that there would be no U haul to cart all my lifelong collection of maritime memorabilla, so I have to come to terms with my mortality as well! now back to my sidebar Cannuck game and the shipspotters channel! :)mrdot.
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Mirrlees
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Bathtub!
Deck Engineer- Queen of Richmond
Posts: 1,013
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Post by Mirrlees on Oct 19, 2011 8:41:34 GMT -8
BARBRA STREISAND
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Oct 19, 2011 8:49:38 GMT -8
Mrs Focker! Mother of Gaylord Focker from Meet the Parents, Meet the Fockers and Little Fockers, lol! Funny movies!
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 19, 2011 22:57:16 GMT -8
I just want to communicate with my friends, but, beyond the ancient bubble atleast, how do I accomplish this?
Sans butter.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,271
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Post by Neil on Oct 20, 2011 8:15:47 GMT -8
I just want to communicate with my friends, but, beyond the ancient bubble atleast, how do I accomplish this? Sans butter. Come again?
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 20, 2011 16:30:18 GMT -8
Well, message them on Facebook, mention how you haven't seen them for ages, and suggest getting back into contact. Don't be creepy about it though, that'll just turn them off.
If they don't have Facebook, call them up. Once again, make an effort not to sound creepy.
Or, if you see them regularly but just avoid them, chat 'em up about current issues. Always works.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 20, 2011 17:35:05 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 22, 2011 7:20:00 GMT -8
While on Salt Spring Island this week, I enjoyed a bottle of porter from the Salt Spring Brewery. This brewery's bottle-labels feature photos of local pioneers. By chance, we were able to find the grave-stone of the pioneer fellow who's photo is displayed on their porter bottles.
He was a Kanaka fellow, and his remains are buried at St. Paul's Church, which is the stone-church building at Fulford Harbour. (it helped that there was a photo displayed on the fellow's grave-stone)
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Post by Ferryman on Oct 29, 2011 10:30:47 GMT -8
The deadline for proposals with the old CPR Steamship Building in Downtown Victoria was yesterday. There are Four proposals pending, with one of them being one they would not disclose. Three of the applicants are confirmed as the Maritime Museum of BC, Oak Bay Marine Group sponsored high tech attraction on Coastal History. The Harbour Authority would have plans to convert part of the building into a Ferry terminal again, for the Coho and Clipper Ferries to use, as well as the Harbour Authority using the upper floors as their main office base. Personally I'm all for the Maritime Museum being relocated there, but the Ferry terminal is a close runner up as well. It will be really interesting to see what ends up happening. www.vancouversun.com/news/thewest/building+could+live+again+ferry+terminal/5625706/story.html
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Post by Mike C on Oct 30, 2011 14:29:38 GMT -8
This is interesting stuff. I'm studying Urban Planning and land use designations like this. I'm with Chris on this one - An expanded Maritime Museum would be fantastic, or a central location for the Coho and Victoria Clipper Ferries, sort of like San Francisco's Ferry Building.
For a market-style facility, there are too many examples of failed endeavours, so I am not sure if that's a risk worth taking. I also don't know how I feel about a "high-tech Coastal History attraction," sounds a little too vague for me.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 30, 2011 17:36:21 GMT -8
Here's what I learned today: - "XD" is the new "LOL" Well, not officially until Karl approves it. But I am seeing the ExDee more and more, and now I finally know what it means. - it means: Ha Ha Ha. ;D Why does it mean this? Presumably if you tilt your head and look at it sideways, it looks like a laughing face to some. - I thought it was roman numerals for "A long time ago," but alas I was wrong. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=XDps: - as far as I know, FU still means "Ferry University" and "A/P" still means "Accounts Payable". I'll keep you posted if these change.
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Post by Mike C on Nov 2, 2011 9:33:30 GMT -8
ps: - as far as I know, FU still means "Ferry University" and "A/P" still means "Accounts Payable". I'll keep you posted if these change. POS also stands for Point Of Sale.
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Post by lmtengs on Nov 2, 2011 18:14:19 GMT -8
ps: - as far as I know, FU still means "Ferry University" and "A/P" still means "Accounts Payable". I'll keep you posted if these change. POS also stands for Point Of Sale. And PSP to me is still Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning.
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Post by Dane on Nov 6, 2011 20:41:15 GMT -8
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,952
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Post by FNS on Nov 8, 2011 19:45:55 GMT -8
There's been a bit of talk some time ago on a former Foss tug involved in the filming of the 1933 movie comedy "Tugboat Annie". Can't remember where it was on this Forum, though. I downloaded this film from "iTunes" today. Neat film with waterfront scenes of Seattle. Even on Lake Union, too! Here are two screen captures of a really naughty mischief the NARCISSUS of Secoma was involved in: You'll have to watch the film to see the outcome of this as well as other fun stuff this movie has to offer. I first watched this movie on KCPQ13 when it returned to the air as a commercial station once again after being a PBS station for awhile (and the only PBS station to air a weekly professional wresting grapple-gram from Portland, Oregon).
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 8, 2011 21:56:04 GMT -8
I do believe the former Foss tug in question is the Arthur which is currently owned by Northwest Seaport. But I've been wrong before and am certainly open to correction on this.
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Post by dofd on Nov 8, 2011 22:35:20 GMT -8
I do believe the former Foss tug in question is the Arthur which is currently owned by Northwest Seaport. But I've been wrong before and am certainly open to correction on this. You win. www.nwseaport.org/arthurfoss.html
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 10, 2011 8:04:58 GMT -8
36 years ago today:
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