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Post by Northern Exploration on Jun 7, 2008 18:00:29 GMT -8
Calling the board stagnant is a back handed insult to the people who post here. That isn't adding to debate it is just putting other people down to rile things up. Good debate for intellectual stimulation relies on crafting good arguments based on facts and reason and leaves people better informed and more knowledgeable. That is a far cry from trying to just trying to argue something dead without adding something new or answering any objections raised reasonably. It is much easier to just slight people. There are dozens of boards on the internet that thrive on conflict and personal insult. Surely there are plenty of places to exercise that kind of thing without bringing it here.
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Post by kylefossett on Jun 7, 2008 18:09:49 GMT -8
So we have member that has some great opinions and topics but people bash him as a troll and then when he defends himself, he gets attacked.
**late edit*** oh wait i better be careful. this comment might raise my warning level. how exactly does that work jordan? is it tied into my posts or is it your opinion that can raise it? is there a way to lower it?
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Post by ruddernut on Jun 7, 2008 18:14:18 GMT -8
Calling the board stagnant is a back handed insult to the people who post here. Sorry. Just intended as constructive criticism. * backs off with hands up * That isn't adding to debate it is just putting other people down to rile things up. Good debate for intellectual stimulation relies on crafting good arguments based on facts and reason and leaves people better informed and more knowledgeable. That is a far cry from trying to just trying to argue something dead without adding something new or answering any objections raised reasonably. It is much easier to just slight people. There are dozens of boards on the internet that thrive on conflict and personal insult. Surely there are plenty of places to exercise that kind of thing without bringing it here. I don't see how you take it as "slighting" people, if you make the occasional attempt to trap your opponents in a corner, so to speak, and add some drama to the situation. A poor debater should be easy prey for those who are more adept.
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Post by Hardy on Jun 7, 2008 18:21:14 GMT -8
Any chance of getting this thread back on topic, or maybe having one of the mod-squad move all the prattle to a separate thread?
Or is on-topic-ness being overlooked now that we are hurling personal slights and the accusation of devulging personal information?
** frusterated **
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jun 7, 2008 18:32:56 GMT -8
First of all, I know there's going to be the temptation for mods to lock this thread, but could we resist that? How about talking things out, instead?
I don't find ruddernut insulting or offensive. If he finds the board stagnant, that's his perspective.
However, I have to wonder sometimes if he's really all that interested in ferries, as opposed to steering threads in the direction of his various interests. He also seems to be somewhat contemptuous of people in communities that ferries serve and their inconvenient choices of places to live, and there was a remark about forum members "gawking" at "endless photos". Add to that remarks about opening the forum up to more non-ferry issues, and I have to wonder if this is a place where he can find much satisfaction.
This forum is what it is; people here are mainly interested in ferries. There are gazillions of other sites for people who want to talk about other things.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 7, 2008 18:50:13 GMT -8
I don't see how you take it as "slighting" people, if you make the occasional attempt to trap your opponents in a corner, so to speak, and add some drama to the situation. A poor debater should be easy prey for those who are more adept. I think that this is the wrong board for that. I don't think this board's going to change to what you hope for. You may want to reconsider whether this forum is going to meet your needs.
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Post by ruddernut on Jun 7, 2008 20:05:07 GMT -8
However, I have to wonder sometimes if he's really all that interested in ferries, as opposed to steering threads in the direction of his various interests. I'm more of a rider than a hardcore spotter, and my interests in them are more along the lines of those of a casual enthusiast. He also seems to be somewhat contemptuous of people in communities that ferries serve and their inconvenient choices of places to live, Perhaps I do come off as a little too harsh and judgemental at times, and I should exercise some restraint and choose my words better. But in the latest exchange, it was I who was put on the spot. and there was a remark about forum members "gawking" at "endless photos". We can laugh at ourselves once in a while...right?
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jun 8, 2008 3:00:29 GMT -8
However, I have to wonder sometimes if he's really all that interested in ferries, as opposed to steering threads in the direction of his various interests. I'm more of a rider than a hardcore spotter, and my interests in them are more along the lines of those of a casual enthusiast. He also seems to be somewhat contemptuous of people in communities that ferries serve and their inconvenient choices of places to live, Perhaps I do come off as a little too harsh and judgemental at times, and I should exercise some restraint and choose my words better. But in the latest exchange, it was I who was put on the spot. and there was a remark about forum members "gawking" at "endless photos". We can laugh at ourselves once in a while...right? Oh, please tell me you are finally taking to heart some of what were meant to be constructive comments about how you approach posting on this forum. I, for one, and I think I speak for at least a few others on the board, enjoy good debates. Just look back through my posts and you will see the evidence of this. But quipping one liners with no apparent backup, apparently aimed only at irritating the other debater instead of furthering the debate; that is what has earn your badge of " troll" in the minds of more than a couple of people on the forum. Hey, why do you think my replies to you have been becoming more and more sarcastic. I'm not about to get dragged into it without getting a laugh on my end. I've watched how you post, and I can see there is a glimmer of intelligence behind the posts. You are more than welcome to poke fun, but, please, do so in an appropriate manner...and know your audience... BCinNJ (borrowing from Fenk) not being sarcastic, or, hopefully, extremely excessively verbose
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Post by Fenklebaum on Jun 9, 2008 0:28:27 GMT -8
"Does the entire province subsidize mass transit per capita for every urbanite as much as they do for the ferries for every islander? I thought the local tax base in those urban regions in addition to the fares covered them."
1. No, not *as much*. The taxpayers of this province do chip into BC Transit & TransLink’s operating budgets each year, whether or not they use/are served by the service. Let’s also not forget that large scale transit projects such as the ill-named and poorly executed ‘Canada Line’ are in large part funded by the province of British Columbia, and not all from TransLink’s own coffers.
"Because it is the humans that are f'king it up and destroying the planet both for every other species and themselves."
2. Amen.
"If it means so much to them, they should pay to sustain their traditions themselves, or move on to living and working somewhere doing something that is more productive and relevant to a modern economy."
3. ... I really wish you hadn’t brought this up. 4. (3 continued) I grew up in Kitsilano until I was eight years old. My friends were there, my school was there, I could walk about the neighbourhood freely, everything was nearby. It was a neighbourhood conduscive to raising children and/or leading a healthy, productive lifestyle.
Guess what happened? The neighbourhood was ‘discovered’ by people who had the money to ‘pay for a traditional and sacrificial lifestyle’. And as is so often the case when yuppies swarm in, those who were ‘willing to pay the high price’ hadn’t actually developed Kits’ coveted lifestyle on their own. It had been developed, by and large, by people working within modest means. The minimalist ‘live heathy and stay green’ lifestyle of the neighbourhood now is nothing more than an anachronism, a mask hiding the new true face of one of the most greedy and corpulent neighbourhoods of our city.
Your remark that ‘people should pay to sustain their traditions themselves’ is an incredibly callous one. Ejecting whole communities from perfectly functional lifestyles, ones which have been cultivated for over 100 years in the case of the Gulf Islands, is not only cold-blooded but stupid. Who’s going to take over the land when the prior tenants have been driven out by cost? Why, only the most gluttonous and extravagant tax bracket we can conjure up!
Perhaps my little rant here gives off the impression of my being overtly class-concious/sensitive. Well, I must confess that having been driven out of a healthy and environmentally friendly(ish) neighbourhood that I grew up in because of ‘not being able to pay for my traditional way of life’ and being sent into the “Let’s drive into town for 45 minutes in a gas guzzling car” suburbs may just have left a chip on my shoulder.
You want to talk about the economics of this idea? Well, here’s how it’ll end up: A core of wealth, and one MASSIVE, POOR suburb.
5. Case in point: Paris.
Fenk, anti-anachronist
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Post by ruddernut on Jun 9, 2008 21:17:15 GMT -8
"Does the entire province subsidize mass transit per capita for every urbanite as much as they do for the ferries for every islander? I thought the local tax base in those urban regions in addition to the fares covered them." 1. No, not *as much*. The taxpayers of this province do chip into BC Transit & TransLink’s operating budgets each year, whether or not they use/are served by the service. Let’s also not forget that large scale transit projects such as the ill-named and poorly executed ‘Canada Line’ are in large part funded by the province of British Columbia, and not all from TransLink’s own coffers. Okay, I've got to agree with you here. The Lower Mainland residents and businesses should be picking up the tab for the Canada Line, and every other major transportation project in the region, through property, gas taxes and whatnot. I've heard Victoria residents complain that their transit system has been getting neglected in favour of Vancouver's, with the Olympics coming and all. I have to agree with them. Mind you, I wasn't all too big on the Olympics coming in the first place. "If it means so much to them, they should pay to sustain their traditions themselves, or move on to living and working somewhere doing something that is more productive and relevant to a modern economy." 3. ... I really wish you hadn’t brought this up. 4. (3 continued) I grew up in Kitsilano until I was eight years old. My friends were there, my school was there, I could walk about the neighbourhood freely, everything was nearby. It was a neighbourhood conduscive to raising children and/or leading a healthy, productive lifestyle. Guess what happened? The neighbourhood was ‘discovered’ by people who had the money to ‘pay for a traditional and sacrificial lifestyle’. And as is so often the case when yuppies swarm in, those who were ‘willing to pay the high price’ hadn’t actually developed Kits’ coveted lifestyle on their own. It had been developed, by and large, by people working within modest means. The minimalist ‘live heathy and stay green’ lifestyle of the neighbourhood now is nothing more than an anachronism, a mask hiding the new true face of one of the most greedy and corpulent neighbourhoods of our city. Your remark that ‘people should pay to sustain their traditions themselves’ is an incredibly callous one. Ejecting whole communities from perfectly functional lifestyles, ones which have been cultivated for over 100 years in the case of the Gulf Islands, is not only cold-blooded but stupid. Who’s going to take over the land when the prior tenants have been driven out by cost? Why, only the most gluttonous and extravagant tax bracket we can conjure up! I have a feeling these things come and go in waves. Property might be a hot market now, and these rich might be the most eligible in the hunt for property on the islands, but once the market cools and the masses that lived there and the shops and businesses that were there go with them, then I have a feeling they would stop being such attractive property for the seasonally residing rich folks. There's got to be a balance somewhere. I'd like to see more midrises and other forms of compact housing built around the town centres of those islands (eg. Ganges) to make more affordable housing available and for those communities to become more self-sufficient, where people won't have to drive around or take the ferry as much to get to places. In any case, fuel prices are rising, environmental constraints are being set, and we're all feeling the pinch. The islanders too are going to have to adjust and make some changes to their lives and their communities, as do the rest of us.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jun 10, 2008 3:46:54 GMT -8
I have a feeling these things come and go in waves. Property might be a hot market now, and these rich might be the most eligible in the hunt for property on the islands, but once the market cools and the masses that lived there and the shops and businesses that were there go with them, then I have a feeling they would stop being such attractive property for the seasonally residing rich folks. There's got to be a balance somewhere. Unfortunately, IMO, this isn't going to happen anytime soon. With the baby boomers just coming into retirement age...these same seasonally residing rich folks you refer to...lol...though Neil might take exception ...they are more likely to become full time residents of their "vacation" homes, effectively removing the properties from the market for the next 20-30 years. I'll pick on Neil again here and ask the question, "Neil, is your long term goal to retire to Hornby?" I'd like to see more midrises and other forms of compact housing built around the town centres of those islands (eg. Ganges) to make more affordable housing available and for those communities to become more self-sufficient, where people won't have to drive around or take the ferry as much to get to places. Again, IMO, though it would be good to see a reduction in the rate of sprawl using multi-unit residential, or mixed-use commercial and residential, but I think in the islands people are looking for space, and the market just won't sustain this type of building...sorry, I'm a little pessimistic this morning!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 20, 2008 13:14:24 GMT -8
Somewhat related as it's re fares......... www.canada.com:80/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=91ef9cb0-8b87-4f9b-8cb2-d334442c514a============ Overheight vehicles face extra charge on BC Ferries, even if parked by smaller car LARRY PYNN Vancouver Sun Thursday, June 19, 2008 VANCOUVER - As if rising fuel surcharges aren't enough, BC Ferries is now charging extra for overheight vehicles even if they wind up on the upper deck parked next to a compact car. BC Ferries charges vehicles taller than 2.1 metres (seven feet) a premium fare and parks them on the main deck, while diverting standard-sized vehicles to the upper car deck. But the fleet's three new Super C-class ferries - Coastal Renaissance, Coastal Inspiration, and Coastal Celebration - are capable of taking vehicles up to 2.7 metres (nine feet) in height. "The ability to fit larger vehicles up top is unique to these vessels," confirms Deborah Marshall, media relations for BC Ferries. Despite the incongruous situation of a larger vehicle paying a premium price for parking next to, say, a Volkswagen on the upper car deck, the corporation has no plans to change its policy. Marshall said Thursday the employee manning the ticket booth cannot charge two rates for the same overheight vehicle because it might not be obvious that the vehicle would get on the Super C-class sailing or might have to wait for the next older ferry with reduced height on the upper car deck. "We have a standardized fare," Marshall said. "It is a standard practice to charge for an overheight." The Coastal Renaissance and Coastal Inspiration are currently sailing between Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay, and Tsawwassen and Duke Point, respectively. Coastal Celebration will begin sailing between Swartz Bay and Tsawwassen in the fall. ==========================
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on Jun 20, 2008 16:45:35 GMT -8
Deb must not have a good grasp of the vessels in her fleet. Just what is the clearance on the upper car deck of the QoNWM?
BTW, do the Spirits have more clearance on the UCD than the V's, or are they the same?
The over height charges came into being when platform decks were first installed on major vessels back in the mid 1960's. Clearance under these platform decks became the critical height, and that remains the standard today.
Northern routes have a different standard - 6 feet, 8.5 inches, the clearance under the QPR's ramps.
One other thought - when will BCFS start charging based on the length of a vehicle? Anything under 20 feet pays the same rate, Hummer or Smart Car. Is that not unfair? The AMHS charges based on vehicle length so my Honda fit goes on for less.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 21, 2008 7:05:30 GMT -8
another fare related news story, from one of my favourite writers, Jack Knox of the Victoria Times-Colonist: www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/business/story.html?id=2f865f34-2acc-44a0-ae7e-53bcd5979795&p=2========== Inland ferries free: We're not so lucky Jack Knox Times Colonist Saturday, June 21, 2008 The 100-car Skeena Queen takes 35 minutes to travel from Swartz Bay to Saltspring Island. The round-trip fare for mom, dad and two teens in the family car this summer: $64.70. The 80-car ferry Osprey 2000 takes 35 minutes to cross Kootenay Lake. The fare for mom, dad and two teens in the family car: Zero. Not a penny. In fact, all 14 of B.C.'s inland ferries are free. Some, like the McLure ferry north of Kamloops, are just a two-car platform scootching across the river in five minutes or so. But then there are the bigger boats like those on the Kootenay Lake crossing, billed as the longest free ferry ride in the world. There's a simple explanation for this apparent inequity: Saltspring Islanders are getting screwed. But wait! Look at the B.C. Ferries fare if that same family of four tries to go to Hornby Island. Two 10-minute puddle-jumps from Vancouver Island and Denman Island cost $97.00. Compared to Saltspring Island, people on Hornby are getting screwed. Hold on! Gulf Islands ferries are still subsidized by government. The province pays roughly half of the operating costs, unlike the main Vancouver Island-mainland routes, which are self-supporting. Compared to Hornby Islanders, Victorians are getting screwed. Not so fast! That ever-shrinking ferry subsidy is all we get for our taxes, says Hornby. Not like the capital region where the province is throwing in $400 million for sewage treatment. Hell, the rising ferry fares added $1,000 to a homeowner's cost of installing a septic field on Hornby. Compared to Victoria, Hornby Islanders are getting screwed. And jeez, everybody is getting the shaft compared to Vancouver. The province is giving The Big Smoke $50 million for an art gallery, $541 million (and counting) for their runaway train of a convention centre and who knows how much -- $200 million? -- for a new roof for B.C. Place. Victoria couldn't squeeze a nickel out of the Liberals when building Save-on-Foods Memorial Centre, yet they come up with nine figures for a B.C. Place roof. (Not to mention $15 million from the Forests Ministry for a hockey rink in Rich Coleman's Fraser Valley riding, the forests minister arguing, with a straight face, that the project would be a global showcase for wood construction.) Somehow, the same government that decided B.C. Ferries should just pull up its socks and build its own ferries without a dime of taxpayers' money figured it would be OK to shovel $10.3 billion at four new Lower Mainland transit lines and $3 billion at the Gateway transportation project. Live Free Or Die Republicans when it comes to transportation spending on Vancouver Island, the Liberals suddenly turn into Franklin Roosevelt Nanny State Democrats when it comes to chucking tax dollars around anything within sniffing distance of English Bay. This is what ticks us off: The inequality. Government can choose whatever philosophy it likes; people just want it to be applied fairly. Good luck. Waiting for fairness from government is like waiting for a rational explanation of the floating feet. Take those inland ferries, run by private outfits on behalf of the Highways Ministry. Why is it that they remain free, while B.C. Ferries travellers not only pay, but face fuel surcharges of up to 20 per cent this summer? Perhaps it's because B.C. Ferries vessels burn diesel, while the inland boats run on fairy dust. Or maybe it's because people in the Interior own guns, whilst those on the Gulf Islands are armed with nothing but roach clips and dulcimers. A Liberal plan to introduce inland tolls was shelved in 2002, the year before they began pushing B.C. Ferries fares into cruise-ship territory. I hesitate to bring this up, because you know that if the government ever does move to address this inequity, it won't do so by making our ferries cheaper. No, it will begin charging for the inland ferries, I'll get the blame, and in consequence I won't be able to vacation in the Interior anymore, for fear of being shot to death in a mysterious "hunting accident." So, let them have their free ferries. And let us continue to squeak and bleat in a state of perpetual wounded indignation. We may live in the most blessed corner of the most beautiful province of one of the safest, most prosperous countries in the world, but it still feels good to feel hard done by. © Times Colonist (Victoria) 2008 =========================
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Post by ruddernut on Jun 21, 2008 7:43:37 GMT -8
^ I totally agree with the above article. The money for all these expensive infrastructure projects in the GVRD should be squeezed out of its own local tax base. Same goes for the ferries to all those remote islands of BC and those of the Interior.
What is the real official excuse for keeping the inland crossings free anyways? I'm sure being afraid of people with guns isn't it.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 4, 2008 12:54:58 GMT -8
Ferry fares sinking smaller islands
Jack Knox, Times Colonist Published: Thursday, July 03, 2008
The good news for Hornby Island? Rich people are still travelling there for their summer vacations.
The bad news? Most people aren't rich. High ferry fares are pricing average Vancouver Islanders out of their own backyard, and it's killing Hornby's economy.
The number of vehicles leaving the Denman Island ferry is plummeting due to rising fares, islanders say, along with all the other small-island routes B.C. Ferries serves. Residents plan a protest tomorrow at many terminals, calling for a fare rollback.
"My business is down 40 per cent," says Michelle Easterly, owner of the Handmade Harmony Hide-away. People are cancelling their reservations at her B&B, blaming the rising cost of riding the two 10-minute-puddle-jump ferries connecting Vancouver Island-to-Denman-to-Hornby.
So Easterly will be down at the Hornby terminal tomorrow when residents protest against the provincial government's decision to push ferry fares into even-Bill-Gates-would-flinch territory.
Similar rallies will be held on Denman, Cortes, Gabriola, Quadra and other islands whose B.C. Ferries lifelines have become increasingly frayed since the move toward a user-pay philosophy began five years ago. The rallies are being organized by the Rock The Boat Coalition, which wants fares rolled back to 2004 levels.
Good luck. There's a better chance of seeing David Suzuki shooting kermode bears from the back of a Hummer than there is of seeing rollbacks.
In fact, within the next few days B.C. Ferries intends to apply for fuel surcharges that would increase fares by nine per cent on major routes and -- eek! -- 20 per cent on minor runs like those to the Gulf Islands, where there are fewer riders to share the cost. That would push the round-trip car-and-driver fare between Vancouver Island and Hornby to about $62, compared to $34.50 in 2003. Add a spouse and a couple of teens, and the total would be $98 -- way too much for a family outing. The increases could come as early as August.
This is the inevitable result of the Liberals' 2003 decision to make B.C. Ferries independent of government (at least in theory). They argued that the corporation needed to move toward self-sufficiency and operate free of political interference. What they didn't say was they also wanted it to run free of political accountability.
The Liberals basically devised a plan that locked B.C. Ferries into a course of rapidly escalating fare increases, then walked away from the responsibility for the resulting carnage in coastal communities. Not that there's much of a political penalty to shrinking Gulf Islands ferry subsidies that are now down to roughly 50 per cent of costs. Jealous Victorians and Vancouverites, ignoring their own massive transit subsidies, have long grumbled about propping up people who choose to live the leafy, lovely island life. This is the rule of thumb: When it's in your own backyard, government spending qualifies as wise investment in economic infrastructure. When in someone else's patch, it's unsustainable waste.
But if you want to argue sustainability, then look at the impact on places like Hornby. The fare increases have stanched the flow of tourists, particularly day-trippers from Courtenay and other Vancouver Islanders popping over a night or two. "My one-night rentals, they left two years ago," Easterly says. "My two-day rentals have packed it in this year." For the first time in eight years, she has summer vacancies. "I was always booked by April."
She has had people make reservations, only to phone back and cancel 10 minutes later, having discovered how much the ferry costs. "It is the middle class that's being squeezed."
Artists, the Co-op, farmers -- everybody on Hornby is suffering from the lack of travellers. "The trickle-down is pretty immense."
The full-time population has plunged as families, no longer able to support themselves, move out, their homes bought by wealthy people who don't need to rely on island jobs. "As soon as they move away, the richer people come in. But they're just here for two or four weeks."
There are so few people around in the rainy season that businesses are being mothballed until spring. The restaurants and pub all closed this winter. "We've never had that happen before." It became a vicious circle: With nowhere to eat or drink, the remaining tourists stopped coming.
At least they were free of political interference.
jknox@tc.canwest.com
©Times Colonist (Victoria) 2008
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Post by ruddernut on Jul 4, 2008 21:35:51 GMT -8
^ Solution: passenger ferries + public transit (if feasible) + bike rentals
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Post by Balfour on Jul 4, 2008 21:38:13 GMT -8
This has got me thinking... Perhaps it's time those routes became run by the Ministry of Highways again...
It would get the economy rolling again on Islands such as Hornby and would take some pressure off of BCFS
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Jul 4, 2008 21:38:29 GMT -8
One more newspaper article about ferry fares hurting the travelling public: One more voice crying into the darkness.
BCFerries, a provincial Liberal government and an economy that favours big business and profiteering mean that it doesn't matter who they hurt as long as the corporate personnelle get their big salaries.
Or, what else are these revenues paying for? The new Quay at Nanaimo. You could have the terminal without the Quay, because guess what the prices of sale items will be in it. Don't be so transparent now about how much money you're trying to grab from people.
So, get ready for the big squeeze, because no one will stop until there is no more middle class, and no full time residents on Hornby at all, only the people who can afford to vacation there a couple of weeks a year will ever frequent it's shores.
Ask BCFerries... if your fares are so elevated that they are hurting your own consumer base: Is this intelligent for you to keep doing? Didn't someone say the management ration at BCFS is 1 to 10, and yet still no one has figured out that this is not a healthy way to run a public service.
We live in perilous times indeed.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 4, 2008 21:39:38 GMT -8
That is why the Coastal Ferries Act was BAD. With the routes having to be independent, the fares will continue to skyrocket.
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Post by ruddernut on Jul 4, 2008 21:43:50 GMT -8
^ Would that be a net plus or a net minus to the overall BC economy?
The thing I like about my pax ferries + transit + bike rentals idea is, it encourages carless transit. Fund that at the same per capita level as Vancouverites and Victorians get for their transit systems, and it would be as close to fair as you can get.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Jul 4, 2008 21:45:51 GMT -8
There is no workable solution but for public officials to change their thinking and realize it is competely alright to spend public money to run public services, not force the consumer to pay for services that should already be provided for by their tax dollars if those dollars weren't so misappropriated.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 4, 2008 22:09:52 GMT -8
^ Solution: passenger ferries + public transit (if feasible) + bike rentals Voila. Problem solved. Gosh, that was easy. So, get ready for the big squeeze, because no one will stop until there is no more middle class, and no full time residents on Hornby at all, only the people who can afford to vacation there a couple of weeks a year will ever frequent it's shores. The CBC news did a feature today from Hornby, on the effect fares are having, and the imminent increase. David Hahn was interviewed as part of it. While I sometimes like his forthrightness and his candour that is a bit unusual in a corporate type, his attitude seemed downright callous. He denied that skyrocketing ferry rates were to blame for the island's economy being in trouble, and said BC Ferries was simply a convenient target. In the Vaughn Palmer interview that Flugel Horn posted, Hahn stated his lack of enthusiasm for approaching the province for a bigger subsidy, saying that BC Ferries needed to be more 'creative' in meeting their financial needs. Apparently being creative entails bleeding small communities dry, because we wouldn't want to 'politicize' things by making BC Ferries too dependent on government largesse. As Mill Bay states, rates are already eroding BC Ferries patronage; it will only get worse, for the islands, and for company revenue. If Hahn understands nothing else, he should understand that.
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Post by ruddernut on Jul 4, 2008 22:19:19 GMT -8
^ Solution: passenger ferries + public transit (if feasible) + bike rentals Voila. Problem solved. Gosh, that was easy. Partial solution...as is all that is available to the rest of us during this fuel crisis.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jul 5, 2008 3:51:58 GMT -8
The thing I like about my pax ferries + transit + bike rentals idea is, it encourages carless transit. Sorry too tempting...this is, of course, as opposed to careless transit, which also can lead to carless transit...
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