Irish Ferry Car Capacity

[Political Incorrectness]

the oak bay and surrey got ramps

[Balfour]

You said that already.

[NMcKay]

yeah. its not as efficent as each deck having a seperate ramp. but in times of need....or in this case. times of Universal Compatability, internal ramps may be the way to go.

[cascade]

Alex,

The main thing about the European way of loading - say for this ship - is that if on the West Coast of BC - then at Duke Point, Departure Bay, Horseshoe Bay, Swartz Bay and Tsawwassen these main terminals have a very unique double ramp loading system - which most - all European Ferries could not use.

In very simple terms we back into a flat wall - drop the tail gate and the cars drive off or drive on. The only moving part is the ramp from the dock side to the ship - which moves with the tidal movement of the day.

All our European Ferries have some sort of internal ramp system - and yes they are very affective in loading cars - also fast once you have a good crew to run it.

So what BC Ferries could use this system in Europe - if they came over here - well for that answer I leave it to you and other members to work on. But I would say all the other vessels which don't work on the runs that the above 5 major terminals work - not the Gulf Island ect...then in theory they could work over here,.

[NMcKay]

except not all of our ships have a ramped berth. ill point out that the kwuna docks @ government launch ramps... which is why she has her own ramps. so she can dock right @ the beach

[Ian]

the dock doesn't go with the tide, the ramps are hydrolic and go to the height of the ship. ex. a fully loadded ship, the ramp doesn't go up it stays level or goes down, the ramp moves with the ship at berth.

[cascade]

The Tidal movement in the Med is very small - maybe about 1 meter or 2 max - Baltic is different.

Ramps from Shore to ferry - work on the length of the ramp and in-cut into the dock side - I'll see if I can find a picture to show what I mean.

[YZFNick]

Most of our minor vessel docks are tidal. You have a causeway out to deep enough water, then a ramp supported by floats then a hydraulic ramp to lower to the ferry.

With the large tides in BC, trucks have some difficulty at extreme tides loading because of the sharp changes in ramp incline between the three parts.

Say Tsawassen and Swartz Bay had a European-style berth each and a boat with internal ramps was used, it would be very unpopular because the loading time relative to the sailing time would be unrealistic with the quicker loading double ramped ships doing the same job in half the time. I'm sure that when the decision was made to add the double deck ramps, BC Ferries looked at all options and found this one the best for its needs.

[Political Incorrectness]

well it depends on what European Way cause the crosschannel routes have long ramps partily on terminal land then going on to water for example in Calais if you had long ramps in BC to get to the ferry then tidal conditions would be a no problem

[cascade]

Dan, is correct on the ramps. Another thing to remember is that the ROPAX vessel here are quick - so the time they lose loading they make up in crossing time. I know people on the forum think some of the BCFS fleet are fast - sorry they are nothing compared to some of the ships here.

Loading - I think in loading large trucks - the system they use here is better for trucks, where as the car loading system in BC is better for cars only.

[Doug]

I kind of find it stupid that the Ulysses can hold 1,300 cars compared to 1,700 passengers....

Cascade: in 1960, BC Ferries' Tsawwassen and Sidney crossed to Vancouver Island in two hours, which was fast for those times. When the "C" Class ferries came out in '76, they had a potential service speed of 22 knots. So basically what I am saying is that the BC Ferries have been fast ever since they started. Why are European ferries faster now? Probably because they replace their ships every 10 or 15 years. I'll bet a reduced sailing time is yet to come when the Super "C"s arrive....

About the double ramp system: it can load and unload 300 American-sized cars in 25 minutes. They don't even have to park cars when the ship leaves. It's more intelligent than a single ramp...Europeans should get with the times.

[Balfour]

yeah that's true, loading and unloading of the spirits usually takes about 20-30mins

[cascade]

Doug,

In the last 30 years there has been massive changes and advancements in hull design and engine technology - fuel consumption.

Therefore they can get a lot of speed out of the smaller engines which burn less fuel and the hull works through the water better - hence much higher speeds. Also the ships - per say are a lot lighter - as they have got better at building them.
Add all of this up and it means savings if your a ship owner / operator.

In Europe we have a lot higher fuel cost than what are on the West Coast - so design came into play - plus we have a lot higher rules & reg - governing speed - wake / wash and engine emission & most importantly safety for the passenger.

Due to the market - good second values - the built quality is very good.

[cascade]

Doug,

In dealing with your second question - we have a large number of different shapes & sizes for our cars and commercial vehicles. In North American - the size & shapes are about the same.

The loading - ramps - on the newer vessel - there is dual stern ramps - which do load very quickly - the trucks. Cars load about the same speed as in BC - again on dual stern ramps - then drive straight off at the other end.

I have not timed a load & unload - so will ask people here on a normal route what sort of times they have.

The Ferry/Cruise ships - I do know that time - as they pack in the cars/trucks - but then again the trip is much longer like around 4 - 6 hours - which they can make up in the middle section of the trip - time wise - that they lose on the loading procedures.

[Doug]

I kind of think people of BC expect more out of everything (or ferries in this case) than people of Europe. People make a big deal of a ferry probably only being 10 minutes late. Do they do that in Europe? So that's why we came up with more efficient ways of loading/unloading vehicles with the double ramp...maybe that's why Europeans don't have it. People are more greedy over here (which is probably true).

[cascade]

Doug,

Here if we turn up for a 14:00 sailing we expect it to leave on time. If not then we move across to another operator. We have lot's to chose from - more than one company on a route.

Swiss trains are well known - worldwide for there time keeping - even in the UK - we want & demand our trains to run on time.
As for Ferry service - yes there is a lot of competition - hence the first thing you do is leave on time.
Some smart operators - leave more than enough time in there schedule - so you leave on time - but the crossing may be longer - hence they speed up and dock sooner - so they can take there time in loading - which them makes them on time when leaving the port. Simple really...

So when your looking to compare crossing times - lengths ect.... it can be a bit miss leading. Some operators will say 3.5 hours to cross - some come in at 4 hours - when in fact it is sub 3 hours for the crossing. Everyone likes to arrive early - do you ?

[NMcKay]

the spirits do i beleave

[cascade]

Interesting side note - re-time

In Greece on Friday - a ferry operator was fine in three different slots a total of $500,000. Why because they were late coming into Port and late leaving. Now this has caused a major headache - for a number of reasons.

1. They were late leaving the Port - why... because the port authority would not clear them - as there was a bomb hoax on another vessel. So they get a fine

2. Late at arriving - Why - Port Authority would not clear there berth - Why - broken down car/truck on ramp of another ferry in there slot. SO they get a fine for been late.

3. Late leaving by 8 hours - Why -Bomb hoax - and another vessel in front. But the other vessel didn't get fine - as one of there major shareholders was a government minister. (This is the major problem - political storm on the move I think)

The Greeks - love to make a drama out of anything. So to the previous question that we European will put up with late runnings - no so. Here they fine you - massive amounts.

A Greek Fast Ferry company - went bust on Saturday. Why - well they have purchased over the last 5 years 3 new vessels - single hull. These vessel can travel at speed - 35knts plus.But they need to slow down while going around a few small Island - due to the massive wash / wake that they throw up. So a trip that would take 3.5 hours now takes 6 hours - hence no one wants to wait and take that long to travel - so they fly to the Island instead - also the same prices as a Ferry.
The local islanders also complained about the wash - these single hull vessel - at speed do throw up amazing wash - wakes - so much that you could ski behind one.

Just don't know what the Greek operator was thinking when he order these vessels. Now he is out of business.